The unofficial online home for fans of the Kent State University Golden Flashes. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

Just throwing some things out. There really aren’t great athletic departments there are great programs. Ohio St football and wrestling (what else?). Great basketball teams at Kansas, Duke, Etc (what else?). Iowa for wrestling (what else). Utah in gymnastics. We did quite well in quite a few sports for years but I’m afraid you need a lot more money these days. It amazes me how even gymnastic, wrestling, athletes transfer out of the MAC to bigger schools. Also how golfers leave early to turn pro. You just can’t compete for the best athletes. We are the Cleveland Indians and Pittsburgh Pirates of Division 1. We are the ones that can’t sign Lindor and have to trade Clevinger and Bauer to save money. That football money isn’t going back into the Athletic Dept to improve things. It’s allowing the department to survive (I think).


I have no idea why other MAC schools only need two money games to survive and we need three. Maybe Kent imposes different financial goals on Athletics, maybe we mismanage some of our money but none of the other schools are doing that much better. It’s not like the Big 10 wants any of them to join.

(02-19-2021 05:46 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  None of our peers schedule 3 bodybag games with heir 4 OOC openings and they’re all in similar situations. Most get 1 with 1-2 lesser tier P5 games and the other 1-2 winnable games. These teams get to thump us regardless of how good we may be, the department gets a paycheck, the kids gets demoralized and/or banged up and limp into conference play with a losing record (probably 1-3) and hoping to win enough to be bowl eligible. Funny how basketball always scheduled to get to 20 wins every season and football schedules around the paychecks we get in return for being somebody else’s homecoming game. Good riddance Neilsen!

You can avoid the obvious scheduling quirks if you want, but most basketball games are usually scheduled by the head coach and typically just a few months before the next season. In football, games are usually scheduled YEARS ahead of time and by the AD. So it's not exactly apples to apples.

(02-19-2021 06:56 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other on Nielsen because honestly I have no first hand knowledge of him. I think the thing I'm most curious about is, is this job actually unattractive to good candidates? Is it less attractive than most other MAC jobs? And if so why? It doesn't seem like it was viewed that way when Kennedy retired. So if the appeal of the job has deteriorated under Nielsen what are the reasons?

I'm sure the opinions on here will be either be it's 100% Nielsen's fault or it's 0%. And reality is probably somewhere in between.

It's only less attractive now than previously because the salary is going to go back to being one of the lowest in the conference. If it was the challenging job that it is and we were paying top dollar, people would probably be lining up for the gig.

(02-20-2021 09:41 PM)burden Wrote:  It amazes me how even gymnastic, wrestling, athletes transfer out of the MAC to bigger schools. Also how golfers leave early to turn pro.

I have gotten to know a number of D1 athletes and the extent that they are treated like pros (in college) is disturbing. I had a women's soccer player at a D1 school tell me that every one of her friends that went D1 hates it and those that play D2 and D3 still enjoy it. I've also heard from some athletes who say that there is an obsession with getting any D1 opportunity without much regard to the quality of school they just got into. I think this obsession causes the constant movement, even once athletes have arrived. Athletes that get better opportunities move on. Athletes that hate it drop out and find a program they like (see Sydney Moss at Thomas More College who led her basketball team to 2 championships after leaving an SEC school after one year).

I would think Kent can still do quite well because of its strong university, but there is this constant jockeying that doesn't do them much favor.

(02-20-2021 11:06 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  

(02-19-2021 05:46 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  None of our peers schedule 3 bodybag games with heir 4 OOC openings and they’re all in similar situations. Most get 1 with 1-2 lesser tier P5 games and the other 1-2 winnable games. These teams get to thump us regardless of how good we may be, the department gets a paycheck, the kids gets demoralized and/or banged up and limp into conference play with a losing record (probably 1-3) and hoping to win enough to be bowl eligible. Funny how basketball always scheduled to get to 20 wins every season and football schedules around the paychecks we get in return for being somebody else’s homecoming game. Good riddance Neilsen!

You can avoid the obvious scheduling quirks if you want, but most basketball games are usually scheduled by the head coach and typically just a few months before the next season. In football, games are usually scheduled YEARS ahead of time and by the AD. So it's not exactly apples to apples.

So the AD allows a head coach in one sport to schedule but has tight grips everywhere else? I don’t buy Neilsen never having a hand in the basketball schedule. But at least we could hype up that streak of 20 win seasons. Anyway, the football out of conference scheduling would be akin to basketball scheduling money games at Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Wisconsin, Texas, Villanova, Georgia Tech, WVU and say BC this year and then find an equal gauntlet next year and very thereafter. Basketball programs have money games too, but for some reason we don’t schedule 75% of our OOC games that way. And the apples and oranges of it is one sport is a contact sport that will get you demoralized by being outmatched and possibly seriously hurt prior to conference play where you then have to get on quite a roll just to quality for playoffs (bowl game). And the other sport is not a contact sport, you might get blown out but will still score quite a bit and is a sport you can go 0 for the season and get on a roll one weekend and qualify for the playoffs (March Madness).

(02-20-2021 09:41 PM)burden Wrote:  It amazes me how even gymnastic, wrestling, athletes transfer out of the MAC to bigger schools. Also how golfers leave early to turn pro. You just can’t compete for the best athletes. We are the Cleveland Indians and Pittsburgh Pirates of Division 1. We are the ones that can’t sign Lindor and have to trade Clevinger and Bauer to save money.

So true. I know of a family local to me that has some great athletes, but wrestling is their passion. Dad was a multiple time state champ and his boys were groomed for the same. They moved and transferred to a school with a much better program. Dad’s theory was they could win individual state championships anywhere, but if they could also chase team championships that much better. He was right, oldest won 3 football titles and just missed out on a 4th due to injury, and he won several individual and team wrestling championships, and his younger brothers will be doing the same following him up. It’s the same here, Kyle Conel can win the MAC and get to the NCAAs but why not leave and chase that with a program like Penn State if you could.

College athletics were always about the $ and teams chased facilities in order to help with recruiting, now most of the program have facilities that are much nicer than anything we have at home and none of us would ever leave if given the opportunity. Now the haves and have nots are shifting, we used to be the have nots to some of the P5 programs, and still are, but those programs now are miles apart from the upper tiers. The difference between an Alabama in football to say Illinois is miles apart and then we’re miles apart from them. It’s a crazy system that is spoiling out of control until it crashes.

(02-20-2021 11:31 PM)bopol Wrote:  

(02-20-2021 09:41 PM)burden Wrote:  It amazes me how even gymnastic, wrestling, athletes transfer out of the MAC to bigger schools. Also how golfers leave early to turn pro.

I have gotten to know a number of D1 athletes and the extent that they are treated like pros (in college) is disturbing. I had a women's soccer player at a D1 school tell me that every one of her friends that went D1 hates it and those that play D2 and D3 still enjoy it. I've also heard from some athletes who say that there is an obsession with getting any D1 opportunity without much regard to the quality of school they just got into. I think this obsession causes the constant movement, even once athletes have arrived. Athletes that get better opportunities move on. Athletes that hate it drop out and find a program they like (see Sydney Moss at Thomas More College who led her basketball team to 2 championships after leaving an SEC school after one year).

I would think Kent can still do quite well because of its strong university, but there is this constant jockeying that doesn't do them much favor.

Heck college gymnasts are already over the hill. No pro possibilities and no chance for the Olympics. Way too old. Even they move around.

(02-21-2021 05:40 PM)burden Wrote:  Heck college gymnasts are already over the hill. No pro possibilities and no chance for the Olympics. Way too old. Even they move around.

Yeah, I know a competitive figure skater and I think that gymnastics and figure skating are really tough sports on athletes. The litany of injuries and passing by your athletic peak at about age 18 has to be frustrating and, if you aren't a top 3 athlete, no one will ever hear of you. I think the skater I know (who is a Top 50 skater in the US still) is probably the oldest at that level now and she's only 25ish.

Any update on the list of candidates to replace Nielsen? I’m with David Carducci and others on here, that the list of people on the KSU search committee leaves a lot to be desired and makes you scratch your head.

You have people like Rob Senderoff, Jim Andrassy, Brice Biggin, Bob Lemieux, Rob Marinaro, Mike Birkbeck, & Bill Lawson who have been at KSU for 10-20+ years.

I’m all for diversity and inclusion, but doesn’t experience working at/for KSU and knowledge of KSU play a large part in identifying the best candidate for KSU?

(02-24-2021 10:21 AM)GoFlashes8 Wrote:  Any update on the list of candidates to replace Nielsen? I’m with David Carducci and others on here, that the list of people on the KSU search committee leaves a lot to be desired and makes you scratch your head.

You have people like Rob Senderoff, Jim Andrassy, Brice Biggin, Bob Lemieux, Rob Marinaro, Mike Birkbeck, & Bill Lawson who have been at KSU for 10-20+ years.

I’m all for diversity and inclusion, but doesn’t experience working at/for KSU and knowledge of KSU play a large part in identifying the best candidate for KSU?

well said GoFlashes8

(02-24-2021 12:18 PM)GoKsuFlashes! Wrote:  

(02-24-2021 10:21 AM)GoFlashes8 Wrote:  Any update on the list of candidates to replace Nielsen? I’m with David Carducci and others on here, that the list of people on the KSU search committee leaves a lot to be desired and makes you scratch your head.

You have people like Rob Senderoff, Jim Andrassy, Brice Biggin, Bob Lemieux, Rob Marinaro, Mike Birkbeck, & Bill Lawson who have been at KSU for 10-20+ years.

I’m all for diversity and inclusion, but doesn’t experience working at/for KSU and knowledge of KSU play a large part in identifying the best candidate for KSU?

well said GoFlashes8

Different view points posted in this thread concerning "money games". 2021 MAC football schedule came out this week and KSU is the only school playing 3 Power 5 schools. For those that support 3 money games I guess you and Joel have it right every other AD has it wrong.

I would like to know what our FB coach thinks of the schedule.

I found some 2018 data from the Knights Commission. Here are some highlights. First number is Athletic Department Revenues, second is %ticket sales, then %donations, then % competition guarantees. School ranking is in parentheses.

Kent - $28,789,000(9), 2%(10), 3% (10), 7% (3)
Ohio - $33,310 (7), 3%(7), 15% (1), 3%(10)
Akron - $34601000 (5), 4% (5), 5% (7), 4%(5)
EMU - $30,681,000 (8), 2% (10), 3%(10), 8%(2)
CMU- $39,989,000 (2), 1%(12), 5% (7), 3%(10)
Buffalo - $40,884,000 (1), 2% (10), 5%(7), 4% (5)

All schools get 60% to 75% from student fees and government support. Kent receives 71% that way. The high is 76% for Buffalo and CMU. The low being 60% for NIU and Ohio. Kent might very well need those guarantees to make up for low ticket sales and less donations. I doubt this will change anybody’s mind. But at least there is some data to chew on.

If only we can commission an outside group to get the ticket sales up to 90K, pay those people with department funds, get the proper amount of ticket sold in a sham using department funds and then when they get to that level give the AD a bonus for such an achievement...

(02-28-2021 09:19 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  If only we can commission an outside group to get the ticket sales up to 90K, pay those people with department funds, get the proper amount of ticket sold in a sham using department funds and then when they get to that level give the AD a bonus for such an achievement...

Could someone please explain how it came to be that despite the fact that the KSU athletic department is a mess Joel became the highest paid in the MAC. Asking this because I am dumfounded.

(02-28-2021 09:29 PM)Proud pilot Wrote:  

(02-28-2021 09:19 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  If only we can commission an outside group to get the ticket sales up to 90K, pay those people with department funds, get the proper amount of ticket sold in a sham using department funds and then when they get to that level give the AD a bonus for such an achievement...

Could someone please explain how it came to be that despite the fact that the KSU athletic department is a mess Joel became the highest paid in the MAC. Asking this because I am dumfounded.

Probably two years ago, I was talking to a friend of mine who lives in the area, is a fellow Kent grad and a big sports fan, but doesn't pay much attention to Kent sports unless something notable is happening (good football season, basketball in the tournament, etc). I mentioned to him Kent's AD is the highest paid in the MAC. He said "Wait, really? How does that make sense? I hear about other MAC schools accomplishing things much more than Kent.". I didn't have an answer for him. Then me made some jokes about how lame those Dri Archer for Heisman comics were and speculated that they embarrassed him so much that's why he didn't want to play football anymore.

(02-28-2021 09:29 PM)Proud pilot Wrote:  Could someone please explain how it came to be that despite the fact that the KSU athletic department is a mess Joel became the highest paid in the MAC. Asking this because I am dumfounded.

That’s actually pretty easy to answer. Our last three university presidents have been absolutely ABYSMAL. Lefton, Warren and Diacon didn’t/don’t have the slightest clue what’s going on in a building 50 yards away from their offices.

There are two entities you can NEVER trust to spend money wisely:

Universities and the Government.

As a retired faculty member, I don't think Lefton, Warren and Diacon were abysmal presidents.

Sports is a relatively small part of their jobs. I didn't like Lefton, but he did some good things academically. Warren was a varsity athlete in college and attended most men's and women's basketball games. (Lefton rarely did.)

I never figured out why she put up with Nielsen.

My guess is Lefton and Warren liked (or at least tolerated) Nielsen because he didn't cause them problems. (Remember Nielsen saying he only needed to please one person on campus?)

I don't have a huge opinion on Diacon one way or another. But he did a study of morale in the athletic department, hired a consultant to look at the department in general, and in the end, got rid of Nielsen.

But his overwhelming priority has been keeping the university solvent and functioning through the pandemic.

(02-28-2021 10:36 PM)cschierh Wrote:  As a retired faculty member, I don't think Lefton, Warren and Diacon were abysmal presidents.

Sports is a relatively small part of their jobs. I didn't like Lefton, but he did some good things academically. Warren was a varsity athlete in college and attended most men's and women's basketball games. (Lefton rarely did.)

I never figured out why she put up with Nielsen.

My guess is Lefton and Warren liked (or at least tolerated) Nielsen because he didn't cause them problems. (Remember Nielsen saying he only needed to please one person on campus?)

I don't have a huge opinion on Diacon one way or another. But he did a study of morale in the athletic department, hired a consultant to look at the department in general, and in the end, got rid of Nielsen.

But his overwhelming priority has been keeping the university solvent and functioning through the pandemic.

Give Warren a pass due to health issues ... she never really locked into the job as far as sports, IMO. Lester (The Disaster) Lefton is the culprit with his idea of turning sports into campus-wide intramurals, cutting funding and much more.

He rode the coattails of Cartwright's Campus Improvement Plans to his benefit, but had none of her vision for improving sports. Joel was his caretaker. If I'm not mistaken, Joel's sweetheart deal came with Lefton walking out the door.

Also, as usual, the perpetually fearful BOT comes into play for doing little or nothing to improve sports because the academics would follow with an uproar. Football salaries have always been bottom of the MAC for decades, and basketball (other than the Christian era) has been middle of the pack at best, and mostly in the bottom third.

What made Laing so good was his ability to work inside the Kent State antiquated approach to athletics while at the same time improving it, forcing change, albeit grudgingly. Hopefully that is what the next AD will do.

(02-28-2021 10:36 PM)cschierh Wrote:  As a retired faculty member, I don't think Lefton, Warren and Diacon were abysmal presidents.

Sports is a relatively small part of their jobs. I didn't like Lefton, but he did some good things academically. Warren was a varsity athlete in college and attended most men's and women's basketball games. (Lefton rarely did.)

I never figured out why she put up with Nielsen.

My guess is Lefton and Warren liked (or at least tolerated) Nielsen because he didn't cause them problems. (Remember Nielsen saying he only needed to please one person on campus?)

I don't have a huge opinion on Diacon one way or another. But he did a study of morale in the athletic department, hired a consultant to look at the department in general, and in the end, got rid of Nielsen.

But his overwhelming priority has been keeping the university solvent and functioning through the pandemic.

Actually most people only have to please one person at work. Saying it out loud was a clue to his attitude but the statement is correct. Warren was loved by the masses and wasn’t going to rock the boat to change anything. Nielsen kept the Department above water financially and I expect that’s all she asked of him.