(01-14-2021 12:46 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Little kid shakes soda can and suddenly feigns aghast when it sprays all over everyone in the room. "I didn't mean for that to happen!" He proclaims. Fools will believe him.

I realize that eric disagrees - - the holy name of Lord DJT being protected under the Third Commandment, after all - - but I think this description is pretty darn accurate.

A president is supposed to understand that his words have meaning. My sense is that the president did not expect bloodshed, but he fully wanted a populist response to Constitutional proceeding. President Trump is a stupid man. But not so stupid as to not understand that he was stoking anger at a volatile moment.

Yet it didn't matter to him - - at least not until he realized that he was being blamed for the fallout. Then and only then did he put on his pretend contrition - - not for anything he said (he being infallible), but rather for the fully predictable actions of those who he now disavows. "No true Scotsman" is now "No true Trumpist".

Until he finally and fully leaves office, President Trump is to me no better than the dog turd that one of my neighbors failed to pick up on my front walkway this morning. When he leaves office, I will at that time give him some of the credit he deserves for at least pointing America in a healthier direction.

It's a shame he had to go out this way. Much more for our nation than for him.

(01-14-2021 03:19 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 12:11 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 12:03 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 11:58 AM)cb4029 Wrote:  But I thought all those people were Antifa. The only lie I remember is the one trump told when he said he would walk with them. And the video doesn't show a peaceful group. They were ready to hang pence. Why do you need restraints, guns and armor for a peaceful demonstration.

99% of the protesters were peaceful. It was a tiny percentage who were not and there is no excusing their behavior no matter if they were antifa or Trump supporters.

But the fact remains that its a total lie that Trump induced a riot.

He was very specific that he was asking for a peaceful protest.

-He lied to them for 2 months about voter fraud that he could never prove.
-He invited them (via Twitter) to DC on January 6th.
-He and others riled up the crowd with incendiary words.
-The rioters who committed crimes specifically said that they were doing it because DJT told them to.

I'm sure that a court will sort it out but he's probably got some liability.

The proof was watching observers be removed from counting rooms in violation of the law.

Democratic election officials committed crimes to prevent people from watching.

You can continue to deny, but everyone knows you're wrong.

And everybody knows the Dems cheated.

"everyone". You have no proof. Plus, ask any project manager how difficult it is to get that many people coordinated.

(01-14-2021 03:16 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 09:11 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  I would just say lets go get 'em next time, but they flat out stole this election and there is no accountability for it. Not in the media, not in the courts, not with the sellouts in congress already.

So what do we do? If they stole this one, they'll steal the next one. They have all the power.

I'm not optimistic. Not at all.

Count me in with you. We're sunk and now the only thing the Demoncrapped want to do is sink that knife for the coup de grace. I'm sorry to admit it but when the VP is afraid of doing the right thing there's nothing in the future for us. They cheated and were able to get away with it and now they will just turn that screw tighter to make sure that they'll win by whatever means (probably by the same method). Anyone that is a history buff KNOWS that it exactly how the Nazis came into power. The Kaiser gave Hitler all the ammunition he needed (full powermode) and then it got worst for the people from there. The only difference was that in Germany the corporations weren't entirely in line with him but through threats and intimidation they went along and the people didn't have any say. If they didn't like the way the Nazis were treating some segments of their society they were afraid of speaking out from fear of retaliation. It's the same way here to a degree, it's not full fledged TOTALITARIANISM, but slowly with Big Pharma (control healthcare) the banks (Chase for example) against free speech (google, fb, twitter, etc) and of course a majority House and 50/50 senate they will just squeeze harder and no one has the power to stop them. The Demoncrapped and their minions also know it and Cons have an inkling that they have been immasculated because of their "be better" and stupidity. For some reason they assume the Demoncrapped have America's best interest at heart and and would do the right thing. Yep, the right thing for them.

I agreed with Pence. The Democrats stole Georgia beyond a reasonable doubt. Pretty sure about Arizona and Wisconsin too. That would enough to throw it into the House where Trump would win. But there just isn't enough specificity to award those states to Trump. We know there was fraud, but we can't prove how many votes it gave Biden and how many it gave (or took away from) Trump. Gets to be a dangerous slippery slope. Like impeaching a president because he says mean things and you don't like him.

(01-14-2021 02:22 PM)RobUCF Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 12:03 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 11:58 AM)cb4029 Wrote:  But I thought all those people were Antifa. The only lie I remember is the one trump told when he said he would walk with them. And the video doesn't show a peaceful group. They were ready to hang pence. Why do you need restraints, guns and armor for a peaceful demonstration.

99% of the protesters were peaceful. It was a tiny percentage who were not and there is no excusing their behavior no matter if they were antifa or Trump supporters.

But the fact remains that its a total lie that Trump induced a riot.

He was very specific that he was asking for a peaceful protest.

That 99% were peaceful was also said by liberals during the BLM protests. But that didn't matter to me then and it doesn't matter to me now, whatever amount of peaceful protesters there were, both have been completely overshadowed by those that opted to burn down buildings or invade the US Capitol. I do agree that there is no excusing their behavior and they should be prosecuted.

There were maybe 1% peaceful after the first day. And the riots went on for weeks.

(01-14-2021 04:23 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 12:46 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Little kid shakes soda can and suddenly feigns aghast when it sprays all over everyone in the room. "I didn't mean for that to happen!" He proclaims. Fools will believe him.

I realize that eric disagrees - - the holy name of Lord DJT being protected under the Third Commandment, after all - - but I think this description is pretty darn accurate.

A president is supposed to understand that his words have meaning. My sense is that the president did not expect bloodshed, but he fully wanted a populist response to Constitutional proceeding. President Trump is a stupid man. But not so stupid as to not understand that he was stoking anger at a volatile moment.

Yet it didn't matter to him - - at least not until he realized that he was being blamed for the fallout. Then and only then did he put on his pretend contrition - - not for anything he said (he being infallible), but rather for the fully predictable actions of those who he now disavows. "No true Scotsman" is now "No true Trumpist".

Until he finally and fully leaves office, President Trump is to me no better than the dog turd that one of my neighbors failed to pick up on my front walkway this morning. When he leaves office, I will at that time give him some of the credit he deserves for at least pointing America in a healthier direction.

It's a shame he had to go out this way. Much more for our nation than for him.

President Trump understood better than anyone in DC the anger on the right, but even he had no idea how strong it was. He's kept pretty silent the last few days because he finally understood. Watching him over the years, its got to be really hard to keep silent! Its got nothing to do with the lies of the left and the media blaming him.

And if everything he did was different, this might well still have flowed from years of Democrats and the dog turds of the media demonizing the public and committing or encouraging political violence against Republicans and normal people.

What I would say is your opinion is based on listening to a bunch of dog turds.

(01-14-2021 05:01 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 03:19 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 12:11 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 12:03 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 11:58 AM)cb4029 Wrote:  But I thought all those people were Antifa. The only lie I remember is the one trump told when he said he would walk with them. And the video doesn't show a peaceful group. They were ready to hang pence. Why do you need restraints, guns and armor for a peaceful demonstration.

99% of the protesters were peaceful. It was a tiny percentage who were not and there is no excusing their behavior no matter if they were antifa or Trump supporters.

But the fact remains that its a total lie that Trump induced a riot.

He was very specific that he was asking for a peaceful protest.

-He lied to them for 2 months about voter fraud that he could never prove.
-He invited them (via Twitter) to DC on January 6th.
-He and others riled up the crowd with incendiary words.
-The rioters who committed crimes specifically said that they were doing it because DJT told them to.

I'm sure that a court will sort it out but he's probably got some liability.

The proof was watching observers be removed from counting rooms in violation of the law.

Democratic election officials committed crimes to prevent people from watching.

You can continue to deny, but everyone knows you're wrong.

And everybody knows the Dems cheated.

"everyone". You have no proof. Plus, ask any project manager how difficult it is to get that many people coordinated.

Biden said he had the best voter fraud organization in history!

And why do you think they chased everyone but 4 or 5 people out of that room in Fulton County Georgia before pulling boxes out from under tables?

An example of mass fraud that lasted years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Pu...ng_scandal

"In 2009, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution published analyses of Criterion-Referenced Competency Tests (CRCT) results which showed statistically unlikely test scores, including extraordinary gains or losses in a single year.[1] An investigation by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI) released in July 2011 indicated that 44 out of 56 schools cheated on the 2009 CRCT.[2] One hundred and seventy-eight educators were implicated in correcting answers entered by students.[3] Of these, 35 educators were indicted and all but 12 took plea deals; the remaining 12 went to trial.[4] The size of the scandal has been described as one of the largest in United States history.[3][5][6]..."

I once helped uncover a fraud in a company with over 100 people involved that went on for 2 or 3 years. It involved hundreds of thousands of dollars.

There was another fraud where 20 or 30 people knew for about a year before one finally told.

And then there are examples like Enron.

All you need is a strong personality at the top like Andy Fastow intimidating the others.

Wonder how many Trumplicans are flat earthers too...got to be a healthy overlap.

(01-14-2021 02:22 PM)RobUCF Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 12:03 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 11:58 AM)cb4029 Wrote:  But I thought all those people were Antifa. The only lie I remember is the one trump told when he said he would walk with them. And the video doesn't show a peaceful group. They were ready to hang pence. Why do you need restraints, guns and armor for a peaceful demonstration.

99% of the protesters were peaceful. It was a tiny percentage who were not and there is no excusing their behavior no matter if they were antifa or Trump supporters.

But the fact remains that its a total lie that Trump induced a riot.

He was very specific that he was asking for a peaceful protest.

That 99% were peaceful was also said by liberals during the BLM protests. But that didn't matter to me then and it doesn't matter to me now, whatever amount of peaceful protesters there were, both have been completely overshadowed by those that opted to burn down buildings or invade the US Capitol. I do agree that there is no excusing their behavior and they should be prosecuted.

Yes, but was the entire lot of protesters and sympathizers then accused of committing the same crimes the violent nut cases committed?

Have you not heard? Any Trump voter or Trump supporter is a white supremacist, a white nationalist and a domestic terrorist.

Were similar claims made about Jenny up the court with her BLM sign out front?

That’s the difference.

(01-14-2021 05:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 05:01 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 03:19 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 12:11 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 12:03 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  99% of the protesters were peaceful. It was a tiny percentage who were not and there is no excusing their behavior no matter if they were antifa or Trump supporters.

But the fact remains that its a total lie that Trump induced a riot.

He was very specific that he was asking for a peaceful protest.

-He lied to them for 2 months about voter fraud that he could never prove.
-He invited them (via Twitter) to DC on January 6th.
-He and others riled up the crowd with incendiary words.
-The rioters who committed crimes specifically said that they were doing it because DJT told them to.

I'm sure that a court will sort it out but he's probably got some liability.

The proof was watching observers be removed from counting rooms in violation of the law.

Democratic election officials committed crimes to prevent people from watching.

You can continue to deny, but everyone knows you're wrong.

And everybody knows the Dems cheated.

"everyone". You have no proof. Plus, ask any project manager how difficult it is to get that many people coordinated.

Biden said he had the best voter fraud organization in history!

And why do you think they chased everyone but 4 or 5 people out of that room in Fulton County Georgia before pulling boxes out from under tables?

And Trump said that Mexico would pay for the wall. So what?

(01-14-2021 10:41 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 08:34 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  - China sucks, but they make all the cool schidt we like to use and do not really care how much it costs. If that pipeline was truly shut off, people would be pissed and push back.

China pipeline could be replaced. There are millions with similar demographics in Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, and India. We could reprise Truman's 1940s bribing up an alliance to contain China. We give you military protection against China's adventurism, and we relocate jobs from China to you, and in exchange you play on our team.

How quickly you forget. We have the Demoncrapped in the WH and elsewhere. Do you really think they will go against their eastern overlords. Especially since the son of one very fake president is implicated with them and possible even blackmail may be involved. I would have agreed that we probably could have gone that route Owl, not anymore...and perhaps for a very long time. The only other recourse would be for American consumers to stop buying Chinese goods but since they're usually cheaper and it's all about the dollar I don't see our habits changing any time soon.

(01-14-2021 07:23 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  How quickly you forget. We have the Demoncrapped in the WH and elsewhere. Do you really think they will go against their eastern overlords. Especially since the son of one very fake president is implicated with them and possible even blackmail may be involved. I would have agreed that we probably could have gone that route Owl, not anymore...and perhaps for a very long time. The only other recourse would be for American consumers to stop buying Chinese goods but since they're usually cheaper and it's all about the dollar I don't see our habits changing any time soon.

I didn't say we would go that way, I said we could and should.

(01-14-2021 04:23 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  I realize that eric disagrees - - the holy name of Lord DJT being protected under the Third Commandment, after all

That is a really disguising thing to say and goes against everything I believe in.

You only said it because you know I am a Christian, which says a lot.

The irony is I have been telling other Christians for weeks that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, not Donald Trump, and they need to step back and remember that as well.

So its quite the irony that you went there with me of all people.

What separates us from the fascists is our defense of the rights and liberties of the people that we DON'T like and DON'T agree with.

That is the core principle that separates us from them.

I don't agree with a lot Trump said the last several week, I don't like him giving false hope to people that the election would be overturned, but I REFUSE to get on the crazy train of accusing him of calling for and inciting a violent insurrection when he specifically stressed for a PEACEFUL protest.

Nor will I get behind another impeachment hoax and a total silencing of him, total purging of him from society and anyone connected with him based on a BIG FAT LIE that the whole media and all of Washing are colluding on.

And we have already moved way past it being just about Donald Trump, they have turned the machine against untold thousands of people through big corporations and big tech.

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES is behaving like a fascist nation acceptable, and right now Washington, the media and corporate America are behaving like a fascists.

(01-14-2021 05:01 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 03:19 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 12:11 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 12:03 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 11:58 AM)cb4029 Wrote:  But I thought all those people were Antifa. The only lie I remember is the one trump told when he said he would walk with them. And the video doesn't show a peaceful group. They were ready to hang pence. Why do you need restraints, guns and armor for a peaceful demonstration.

99% of the protesters were peaceful. It was a tiny percentage who were not and there is no excusing their behavior no matter if they were antifa or Trump supporters.

But the fact remains that its a total lie that Trump induced a riot.

He was very specific that he was asking for a peaceful protest.

-He lied to them for 2 months about voter fraud that he could never prove.
-He invited them (via Twitter) to DC on January 6th.
-He and others riled up the crowd with incendiary words.
-The rioters who committed crimes specifically said that they were doing it because DJT told them to.

I'm sure that a court will sort it out but he's probably got some liability.

The proof was watching observers be removed from counting rooms in violation of the law.

Democratic election officials committed crimes to prevent people from watching.

You can continue to deny, but everyone knows you're wrong.

And everybody knows the Dems cheated.

"everyone". You have no proof. Plus, ask any project manager how difficult it is to get that many people coordinated.

Do I believe that the election was crooked in certain key swing states in certain large cities.....yes I do.

With that said, the real tragedy is that there are millions of people that believe the same thing, and those that were running the election counting in those key places have almost universally thrown up roadblocks to in-depth audits. Answering questions as to why counting was stopped, then resumed in the middle of the night with no one watching.

Instead of bending over backwards and being transparent.....they’ve acted as though the fix was in.

No one will ever really know the level illegal ballot counting that took place it would seem at this point - but nearly half of America believes that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it’s a duck. The other side could care less about optics so long as it’s the result they want (per Alinsky the ends justify whatever means)

Without election integrity, you have a banana republic, and that’s where we are.

(01-14-2021 12:25 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  The liberal elite left is pushing hard right now. They are emboldened and know they can get away with this. They know they can frame the pushback from the right as 'dangerous' and reason to further their agenda even more.

I'd say it's more that they are scared. Scared of Trump and the movement. Yes, they are emboldened. Soon, polling will show that the majority of Americans are against what they are doing. Will they back off? Doubtful. They see opportunity to hurt the other side and get more of what leftists crave - POWER.

They are setting themselves up to lose both the House and Senate in '22. Of course, part of that depends on the GOP not further alienating their own voters by their actions. The stupid party doesn't often learn lessons.

(01-15-2021 02:54 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 04:23 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  I realize that eric disagrees - - the holy name of Lord DJT being protected under the Third Commandment, after all

That is a really disguising thing to say and goes against everything I believe in.

You only said it because you know I am a Christian, which says a lot.

The irony is I have been telling other Christians for weeks that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, not Donald Trump, and they need to step back and remember that as well.

So its quite the irony that you went there with me of all people.

Granted, that was a sharper elbow than warranted. I thought about apologizing for my comment, but than decided against it - - at least not yet.

You are a good Christian, eric, and I have no doubt about the depth of your beliefs. Equating Donald Trump with the Lord is a cheap shot (and historically would have been grounds for severe consequences in other times and places). I am not qualified (or even worthy) to call into question what you consider to be sacred.

But then it occurred to me that this is kind of the point. I do not worship our nation, but I do consider it to be as close to sacred as anything in my own life. America gave salvation to my grandparents, at a time when their families were being slaughtered by the genocidal Turks. It gave my father, who was otherwise without means, the opportunity to go to college and earn his PhD in the GI Bill after the Second World War. It gave me an idyllic upbringing in the 60’s and 70’s, and the chance to make a professional name for myself despite a four-syllable last name.

Donald Trump profaned all of that last week. I realize that many disagree, as is your right. But what you call a “big fat lie” I consider to be an excuse for a miserable p.o.s. that cannot leave office soon enough for my liking.

***

Okay, now that that’s off my chest, my apology. That should not have been directed at you.

(01-15-2021 06:39 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(01-15-2021 02:54 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 04:23 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  I realize that eric disagrees - - the holy name of Lord DJT being protected under the Third Commandment, after all

That is a really disguising thing to say and goes against everything I believe in.

You only said it because you know I am a Christian, which says a lot.

The irony is I have been telling other Christians for weeks that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, not Donald Trump, and they need to step back and remember that as well.

So its quite the irony that you went there with me of all people.

Granted, that was a sharper elbow than warranted. I thought about apologizing for my comment, but than decided against it - - at least not yet.

You are a good Christian, eric, and I have no doubt about the depth of your beliefs. Equating Donald Trump with the Lord is a cheap shot (and historically would have been grounds for severe consequences in other times and places). I am not qualified (or even worthy) to call into question what you consider to be sacred.

But then it occurred to me that this is kind of the point. I do not worship our nation, but I do consider it to be as close to sacred as anything in my own life. America gave salvation to my grandparents, at a time when their families were being slaughtered by the genocidal Turks. It gave my father, who was otherwise without means, the opportunity to go to college and earn his PhD in the GI Bill after the Second World War. It gave me an idyllic upbringing in the 60’s and 70’s, and the chance to make a professional name for myself despite a four-syllable last name.

Donald Trump profaned all of that last week. I realize that many disagree, as is your right. But what you call a “big fat lie” I consider to be an excuse for a miserable p.o.s. that cannot leave office soon enough for my liking.

***

Okay, now that that’s off my chest, my apology. That should not have been directed at you.

Accepted.

If Trump had not be so specific in stressing that he wanted a peaceful protest I would fully agree with you. Trump hatred is so deep I long ago stopped arguing with people over it.

Our country is just so full of hate on both sides its hard to see us coming out of this. As a 2020 Trump voter I have been called a white supremacist, nazi, deplorable, un-redeemable scumbag who needs to be purged from society about 100 times a day all year.

The left, the media and the entertainment industry have spread far more hate, division and incited people more that Trump

And they are going to continue to going forward even though Trump has been silenced.

(01-15-2021 07:14 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-15-2021 06:39 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(01-15-2021 02:54 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 04:23 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  I realize that eric disagrees - - the holy name of Lord DJT being protected under the Third Commandment, after all

That is a really disguising thing to say and goes against everything I believe in.

You only said it because you know I am a Christian, which says a lot.

The irony is I have been telling other Christians for weeks that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, not Donald Trump, and they need to step back and remember that as well.

So its quite the irony that you went there with me of all people.

Granted, that was a sharper elbow than warranted. I thought about apologizing for my comment, but than decided against it - - at least not yet.

You are a good Christian, eric, and I have no doubt about the depth of your beliefs. Equating Donald Trump with the Lord is a cheap shot (and historically would have been grounds for severe consequences in other times and places). I am not qualified (or even worthy) to call into question what you consider to be sacred.

But then it occurred to me that this is kind of the point. I do not worship our nation, but I do consider it to be as close to sacred as anything in my own life. America gave salvation to my grandparents, at a time when their families were being slaughtered by the genocidal Turks. It gave my father, who was otherwise without means, the opportunity to go to college and earn his PhD in the GI Bill after the Second World War. It gave me an idyllic upbringing in the 60’s and 70’s, and the chance to make a professional name for myself despite a four-syllable last name.

Donald Trump profaned all of that last week. I realize that many disagree, as is your right. But what you call a “big fat lie” I consider to be an excuse for a miserable p.o.s. that cannot leave office soon enough for my liking.

***

Okay, now that that’s off my chest, my apology. That should not have been directed at you.

Accepted.

If Trump had not be so specific in stressing that he wanted a peaceful protest I would fully agree with you. Trump hatred is so deep I long ago stopped arguing with people over it.

Our country is just so full of hate on both sides its hard to see us coming out of this. As a 2020 Trump voter I have been called a white supremacist, nazi, deplorable, un-redeemable scumbag who needs to be purged from society about 100 times a day all year.

The left, the media and the entertainment industry have spread far more hate, division and incited people more that Trump

And they are going to continue to going forward even though Trump has been silenced.

Think about it. If those media people and Democrats walked through a mall calling conservatives those names, how long would they last before someone levelled them?

And it took 4 years for the reaction to happen. That's actually pretty amazing.