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Final grades for every college football team this season
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IamYourDad Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Final grades for every college football team this season
(01-16-2021 09:16 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  
(01-15-2021 08:50 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(01-15-2021 08:44 PM)IamYourDad Wrote:  Marlon literally played the entire season. He even played in the Cincy game while he was injured. He gave our school everything he had, and risked his NFL future for us. Tay Gowan one of the highest draft picks? Stop. He hasn’t played in over a year, and the year he did play he didn’t exactly light the world on fire. Our D-line starters would not have made a difference either. Our younger players played better than them when they got a chance. None of your arguments hold any water as far as we are concerned. As far as Houston, you’re in this situation because you hired a sub par coach. He is not a good recruiter, and he was in line to get fired at WVU. His year with Grier was fun, but paying him 5 million+ was foolish. Also didn’t help you lost King. I understand your coach hyped up a backup, but what do you think King leaving did to the psyche of your team? It ruined it. When an offense can’t score, even the best defenses lose heart. The same is true for teams. Even if everyone else other than King stayed it affected them deeply. It showed on the field

marlon opted out of the bowl to prepare for the draft ..he didnt give everything he had

Gowen was given a second round grade by pff just a week ago
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-...-big-board

Marlon opted out of the usf game as well.

UCF's season was basically over before it started...bad blood between mostly "Frost" recruits and Heupel recruits...good news is most of those cancers are gone.

UCF had more opt outs (10) than any other team in the country while solid teams and others like BYU had none.

Players like Davis, Gowan, Dawson, etc...were key starters not there this season on D...and then losing the 4 defensive starters who were (rightfuly) kicked off the team mid-season...and then you end up with bowl season opt outs...thats how you end up with scout team players STARTING in a bowl game.

In UCF's 2019 Bowl Game vs Marshall...only 1 defensive starter was a Senior, as 10 others were expected back this year.

For the 2020 UCF Bowl Game....only 1 of those 10 defensive starters from that 2019 Bowl game that should have been on the team in 2020...were no where to be found.

Hopefully, UCF (and all AAC Teams) can get in a FULL Spring Practice and a "normal" off-season (players aren't sent home) to help them come 2021.

NOTE: UCF has a record 12 Jan enrollees (HS, Transfers and JUCO) for their program which hopefully will pay off come Sept.

On a serious note, let me ask you this. Do you think all of this is a coincidence, and all thing will be fixed once Covid goes away? The pandemic only shined a light on how weak our team culture really is. Most opt outs in the country, a lot of players transferring, DeLoach just flat out saying he’s quitting football because he’s not having fun anymore, bad blood between some of our players. All of this has been brewing, and it’s showing on the field. A few slightly better players on the D-line deciding to play is not going to change the ultimate problem. If there is any bad blood between Heup and “Frost’s players” that is all on Heup. To quote Urban Meyer, “They are all your players the second you take the job.” Even if he didn’t recruit them, they are still his players. The Credle transfer is also scary not because of the caliber of player he is, but because his family said Heup made him false promises so he would commit here regarding playing time. Making promises you can’t keep for your own benefit is called being phony and fake. Likely one of the many factors as to why we can’t recruit, and didn’t hit on any of our biggest targets. Heup and Shannon are also clearly not masters at play-calling and play design to cover those things up. That’s the underlying issue
01-16-2021 10:01 AM
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KnightLight Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Final grades for every college football team this season
(01-16-2021 09:20 AM)CoogPaw Wrote:  Just doesn't seem logical to rate any team's performance this year with any sort of true objectivity since it was so marred by the pandemic. It was NOT a normal football season.

For some...a grade of "Incomplete" would suffice. Heck...you had some teams that played just 5-6 games this year.

Bottom line...I'm thankful ANY games were played this year as it never felt like college football without full Marching Bands or even Cheerleaders performing...packed student sections and FULL stadiums.

One depressing shot after shot after shot they kept showing at the Invitational Championship Game was an aerial shot of a mostly vacant stadium.

College Football, way more than NFL...relies so much off the game day pageantry and almost none of that was there this year. (i.e. RV Campgrounds on campus, Tailgating for HOURS on campus, packed stadiums and all the traditions game day has for all the teams)...

This year, there was almost no such as "home field" advantage.

Here's hoping that 2021 can be a normal Spring, off-season, Fall Season and most fans can be vaccinated so we can once again have PACKED stadiums later this year.
01-16-2021 10:53 AM
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Post: #43
RE: Final grades for every college football team this season
(01-16-2021 10:01 AM)IamYourDad Wrote:  
(01-16-2021 09:16 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  
(01-15-2021 08:50 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(01-15-2021 08:44 PM)IamYourDad Wrote:  Marlon literally played the entire season. He even played in the Cincy game while he was injured. He gave our school everything he had, and risked his NFL future for us. Tay Gowan one of the highest draft picks? Stop. He hasn’t played in over a year, and the year he did play he didn’t exactly light the world on fire. Our D-line starters would not have made a difference either. Our younger players played better than them when they got a chance. None of your arguments hold any water as far as we are concerned. As far as Houston, you’re in this situation because you hired a sub par coach. He is not a good recruiter, and he was in line to get fired at WVU. His year with Grier was fun, but paying him 5 million+ was foolish. Also didn’t help you lost King. I understand your coach hyped up a backup, but what do you think King leaving did to the psyche of your team? It ruined it. When an offense can’t score, even the best defenses lose heart. The same is true for teams. Even if everyone else other than King stayed it affected them deeply. It showed on the field

marlon opted out of the bowl to prepare for the draft ..he didnt give everything he had

Gowen was given a second round grade by pff just a week ago
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-...-big-board

Marlon opted out of the usf game as well.

UCF's season was basically over before it started...bad blood between mostly "Frost" recruits and Heupel recruits...good news is most of those cancers are gone.

UCF had more opt outs (10) than any other team in the country while solid teams and others like BYU had none.

Players like Davis, Gowan, Dawson, etc...were key starters not there this season on D...and then losing the 4 defensive starters who were (rightfuly) kicked off the team mid-season...and then you end up with bowl season opt outs...thats how you end up with scout team players STARTING in a bowl game.

In UCF's 2019 Bowl Game vs Marshall...only 1 defensive starter was a Senior, as 10 others were expected back this year.

For the 2020 UCF Bowl Game....only 1 of those 10 defensive starters from that 2019 Bowl game that should have been on the team in 2020...were no where to be found.

Hopefully, UCF (and all AAC Teams) can get in a FULL Spring Practice and a "normal" off-season (players aren't sent home) to help them come 2021.

NOTE: UCF has a record 12 Jan enrollees (HS, Transfers and JUCO) for their program which hopefully will pay off come Sept.

On a serious note, let me ask you this. Do you think all of this is a coincidence, and all thing will be fixed once Covid goes away? The pandemic only shined a light on how weak our team culture really is. Most opt outs in the country, a lot of players transferring, DeLoach just flat out saying he’s quitting football because he’s not having fun anymore.

DeLoach? Really?

He had 2 starts in 3 years at UCF...ended up with 25 career tackles. With Davis and others coming back and with the incoming Jan recruits...no clue how much playing time he would have got if he wanted to come back for his 6th year of school. (Hint: 24 yr olds don't have much in common with 17-18 yr old Freshmen).

Not one UCF starter in 2020 is transferring and nor is even a 2nd team player from 2020 team is transferring out.

Not many had "fun" playing college football...as everyone had to be tested 3-4 times per week...had to "remain" in your football bubble...with little interaction with other students on campus.

With most of those restrictions still in place this Spring...its not shocking at all that many players decided to not come back for their 6th year of College....as all of them already have their degrees (at least 1).
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2021 11:09 AM by KnightLight.)
01-16-2021 10:58 AM
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SMUleopold Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Final grades for every college football team this season
(01-15-2021 08:00 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(01-15-2021 06:21 PM)SMUleopold Wrote:  SMU met expectations.
Houston met unbiased expectations.
UCF did not.

houston projected to be a +.500 team before the season...houston was a double digit favorite against hawaii in the bowl



phil steele-- the biggest preseason prognosticator in college football- had smu 4th and houston 5th...in his article noted (which is actually my biggest rebuttal to all your article for random small media folks) that they see houston was 4-8 and lost king and dont go much deeper... in realistically houston redshirted 30 players that Houston should have been drastically better ...

ucf barely got 1st place on the preseason votes in the media poll..204 (ucf) to 201 (cincy)..
and that was before this

and then had 6 more opt out before the bowl

but smu losing 2 players is justifiable enough to get blown out by ecu?..and you have them when you barely beat texas state ..smu was horrible against the spread this year
and only smu can use losing players as justifiable?

all 3 had disappointing seasons....is my point....
anyone with any remote sense that went deeper than 4-8 and lost king would says houston has a bigger disappointing season that ucf..we didnt even have massive optout like other teams

AGAIN
You, Dana, and GoCoogs.com are allowed to be as disappointed as you want. Frankly, Dana is trying to explain why he sucked this year when he and everyone else knew why, he just can't come out and say it without sounding like a dummy. And if you want to tell me this years team didn't live up to your expectations, fine. Makes sense. But they lived up to everyone else's. But everyone else knew ya'll were mediocre and that's what you were.

Phil Steele had SMU 4th and Houston 5th? THAT'S PRETTY MUCH WHAT THEY WERE, given the games that weren't played. Houston was .500 in conference without playing a couple of games, so, yeah, about 5th.

Next to nobody preseason had us in the CCG and so they looked at our record at the end and said "Yeah, that sounds about right." The blowout loss to ECU was balanced by the fact that most people thought we'd lose to Memphis. I personally had us going 10-2 and believe, rightly or wrongly, we would have beaten TCU and ya'll, so, yeah, B to B+ sounds about right.

ANY UCF FANS WANT TO SPEAK UP? If before the season you had been told you would end up with 4 losses at the end of the year how would you have graded your team? A? Absolutely not. B? Doubtful. C. Ehhh, not really....

UCF got 1st place in the preseason no matter how close it was. Then they went out and came in like fourth and embarrassed themselves and the conference in the bowl game.

This isn't complicated dude, and Iamyourdad is right. Unbiased opinions of our teams aren't always to our liking and the majority of the preseason ideas on SMU and Houston were right and were wrong on UCF.
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2021 04:10 PM by SMUleopold.)
01-16-2021 03:52 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Final grades for every college football team this season
YOU pointed out that smu HAD lost 2-3 players and how that affected your season, and added that into understanding your grade

but ucf losing 16 players by the end of the year is inconsequential?????
using preseason polls that were voted on before they lost 16 players is your entire point!! meaningless!! ucf having a 6-4 season, all losses to good teams is considered a a disappointment after losing 16 players.. but houston goin 3-5 being a top 5 national team in returning players is not??

your are showing insane bias... step back from your computer look at your point and see how bad it is...how really really bad it is ...

your houston point is just as dumb...there is no person who actually researched houston preseason, would not consider it a disappointment... phil steele, bill connelly, colin sherwin... almost every respectable preseason prognosticator (key word on the "respectable") all had houston having a very good season, around 7-8-ish wins, bill c said houston had top 3 highest ceilings in the league ...despite what you might believe they arent posters on gocoogs.com

you also point out houston cancelled games ignoring houston was favored to LOSE all OUR CANCELLED conference games... your hypocrisy in your points are so bad
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2021 04:48 PM by pesik.)
01-16-2021 04:26 PM
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Post: #46
RE: Final grades for every college football team this season
also that memphis vs ecu logic is crazy....

smu was the preseason 4th, memphis the preseason 3rd.... barely beating the preseason 3rd when you were the home team (And the vegas line was about even) makes up for a blowout embrassing loss to the 10th place team who you a 2 td favorite on...

that is your equivalence??? how????
01-16-2021 04:43 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Final grades for every college football team this season
Because a win is a win and a loss is a loss - especially in conference. I don't care that we blow someone out, or get blown out, I care that we win or lose. Let the bookies worry about the spread, I don't bet. So that one's easy.

Quote:there is no person who actually researched houston preseason, would not consider it a disappointment... phil steele, bill connelly, colin sherwin... almost every respectable preseason prognosticator (key word on the "respectable") all had houston having a very good season, around 7-8-ish wins, bill c said houston had top 3 highest ceilings in the league

Here are Connelly's preseason predictions: https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...ce-part-ii

On SMU, we were supposed to go between better than 5-7 but not quite hit 10-2. So, with Connelly we did what we were supposed to do. B, B+.

On UCF, he referred to a 10 win season as (and I quote) "merely a ten win season" (his italics). So losing 4 games, without playing UNC, would absolutely be considered a disappointment. D, D+.

Aaand UH: https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...nce-part-i
LSS, he had UH going .500, at 6-6 before the bowl game. Mediocrity. 63rd out of 130 programs . I think it would have helped if you had played Rice and UNT instead of BYU but we'll never know. So I say Connelly would have looked at these results and said "yeah, about what I expected." B.

And here's Sherwin: https://dknation.draftkings.com/2020/4/1...-holgorsen

Now, Sherwin is a little higher on the 'coogs, I'll give you that, but even he acknowledges the challenges they were going to face this season and points out that the original schedule did them favors that the changes didn't: "The second year for an Air Raid team generally works better than the first. We’ll go hard over here with UH, and think they’re likely closer to seven or eight wins than five." So maybe that's the issue here - the schedule changes made life a lot harder on UH, I'll say that.
But I say that Sherwin would say that "yeah, take away two wins and add a top 20 team and they'd go 5-7 rather than 7-5 or 6-6." And again, he wouldn't say that this season was a massive disappointment. He would acknowledge that, yeah, the coogs, did about as well as one could expect.

And I've already covered Phil Steele.

So anybody else you want to name, so I can go read them and post their preseason comments, and then point out why they agree with the grade? 03-lmfao
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2021 06:54 PM by SMUleopold.)
01-16-2021 06:46 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Final grades for every college football team this season
first--- dont open the Pandora's box of "if this game had been cancelled instead of that game"....
--"what if ucf didn't play byu in the bowl". Or had just opted out like smu ..ucf chose to play in hard bowl.. smu would have been killed in a bowl vs byu if they had been put there and didn't opt out
- bias: so you want to remove our hardest games, add back our "projected" weaker non-con games-- then pretend we didnt cancel conference games we were projected to lose....(also completely ignoring rice blew out a top 25 Marshall, and the idea that they were an auto-win is silly, since hawaii and rice were similarly ranked)

second you dont seem to understand bill c's analysis remotely...the numbers he references and the rank are his computer's, he does not have "smu between 5-7 but not quite hit 10-2"..he does not have houston 6-6.. his COMPUTER has those projection...his analysis (the written part) is his projection not he numbers...he notes that s/p (his computer) doesn't account for the ridiculous amounts of players we had redshirting and the vast amount of transfers.. he compares houston to smu the year prior (which his computer couldnt accoutn for) and said we have one of the highest ceiling in the conference

bill c. has made numerous posts/articles about it, how it is the biggest gamble in the conference, and houston is the biggest high risk/high reward team last year.. bill C would give houston an F- and has made jokes about holg tanking being a failure



but lets address your other points--
in that ucf article is he is literally saying ucf as being good for having players that opted out-- you have yet to address this point, and keep going back to article before they lost so many players......... until you address this point- you entire point is invalid .. you cant hypocirtical apply this point

-- your "i dont care if we lose by 100 and lose by 1 point" invalidates your entire position on smu...we are talking about expectations...but you are adding your own personal belief in defining the expectation...if cincy played clemson and won by 1 point, and cincy played clemson and won by 40 there is 100% difference in how the win will be perceived and you are percieved.....you hypocritically apply rules only when it benefits you, now how YOU perceive wins DICTATES how its is nationally percieved ..but not gocoog.com

the holes in your logic are crazy and ridiculously biased

--SMUleopold here ill help you --- "hey, pesik my logic on this is very flawed but it wasnt intentionally, i just wasnt that familiar with ucf or houston prior to my post, i wasnt aware ucf lost so many players, nor houstons tanking plan, but i still get the OP ranking if you are looking at it from a very surface level, as for smu i chose to look at it from a positive perspective"
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2021 07:47 PM by pesik.)
01-16-2021 07:37 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Final grades for every college football team this season
Oh Pesik.

Pesik, Pesik, Pesik....

Brother, I wanna give you a hug - I mean it.

C'mere.

(hugs pesik)

There - we good? Good.

Nobody's opening up "Pandora's box." Any speculation of how things may have gone are similar to that projection Bill C's chart that you just posted that says that UH had, say, an 84% chance against Rice, or 81% against UNT, or so on. It's based on our beliefs on how the season was supposed to go vs. how it actually went. You, mistakenly, thought the cougars were good, and that's okay. But while I see that UH had both strengths and weaknesses (i.e. "Almost no one blew up run plays in the backfield better than Houston. The Coogs did almost literally nothing else well on D. Pass defense was atrocious.") I see NOTHING from any source, mainstream or not, stating that UH was going to win seven games.

None.
Nada.
Zilch.
Zip.

Not Connelly, who stated in YOUR OWN POST "Half the season is a tossup."
Not Sherwin.
Not Steele.
Not the other half dozen sources I mentioned, some legitimate, some not so.

NOBODY CAME OUT AND STATED THAT HOUSTON WAS GOING TO BE GOOD IN 2020. They talk about a ceiling, or risk-reward, or potential, or perhaps they may, but nobody, absolutely nobody, states that Houston will compete for the AAC in '20. Better luck next year - I know ya'll got some talent over there.

As far as UCF goes

Look, I say they were a disappointment, however many players they lost. The guy who gave them a grade says there a disappointment. NOBODY is going to say that it was a 'successful' season, soooo....Any UCF fans want to weight in here? Gonna give your team an A? Didn't think so.
A B? Probably not.
A C? Perhaps....10 is a lot of players to lose, especially MM.
But I know CFB fans, and I bet a few of ya'll are upset. Let's say a C-...but hey, that's pretty close to a D+, so.....

On SMU.
No, my position on how much we win/lose by has nothing to do with expectation. Who said "Moral victories make me sick"? After 25 years of heartbreak, all I expect from SMU is to win more than they lose - that's it. I've said "A Winsa win" so many times I can't remember. My benchmark is simply winning.

Lastly - on logic.
I've got an advanced degree from a Tier 1 Research University here in Boston in Philosophy, including Logic. Wanna discuss Aristotle vs. Hume? (Google him) Or perhaps Bertrand Russell's contributions to the field? Maybe discuss why your claims about me are, in some ways, refuted by Kierkegaard's ideas on cold statistics? I mean, I admit I've gotten some A-'s here, maybe my ideas are the minus here. Serious question - would you like me to print out your argument and pass it around the department and get back to you with some feedback? You might be surprised...
LSS - I argue you're illogical, you will me, but I'll stop with the condescention if you stop - deal?
01-16-2021 09:52 PM
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pesik Online
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Post: #50
RE: Final grades for every college football team this season
SMUleopold lets put 2 and 2 together... you quote his lines about houston pass defense being bad 2 seasons ago.. but dont quote the line about houston siting out 6 p5 transfers, which is noted in the tweet, or the 2 seniors that sat due to the tank plan ...things noted in the exact place you grabbed a quote from

now about this logic...Bill c s/p says that it has houston projected 6-6, he says that his computer does not account for the anamoly that houston is doing, with the mass amounts of transfers and redshirting starters (which skewed their season wide stats)

if something is stating youll be 6-6 and the person made the formula notes that it doesnt account for big factors that houston is doing, what are they insinuation?.. if he is noting the 6-6 computer prediction is missing key elements of how good they are what is he insinuating? --what does that insinuate your degree
--okay ill admit im being a bit condescending, and i apologize for that...but im doing it because you are gas lighting like crazy

you and me both know bill c, sherwin, phil steele would all consider houston a big disappointment this season.. no more manipulation, be honest, you agree with this point...you are gas lighting to pretend you dont so you dont have change sides on this debate after taking a firm stance

and you missed my smu point- you are using your own "benchmark" for smu, how much you win or lose game is 100% used in the national perception on if a season is disappointing, eye test is even used in defining the post season.... youve decided thats not important to "your" evaluating of smu ( a fan).. but yet you noted houston own coach and fans cant have a their own benchmark.. you are trying to debate the national benchmark for houston, saying how we feel doesnt matter.. but then says how you feel as a smu fan is the benchmark for smu
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2021 10:28 PM by pesik.)
01-16-2021 10:22 PM
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SMUleopold Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Final grades for every college football team this season
Look, I see your point, Pesik, and I'll grant you it. But the guy couldn't even come out and say it Pesik, he alluded to it because he wasn't sold on it. And almost everyone else had them as mediocre because, well, they were - look at what happened against anyone that wasn't a top-15 opponent, and therefore unrealistic to win. The basic consensus was the Houston wasn't that good this year.

This isn't hard.

UCF was overwhelmingly expected to be one of the teams in the CCG and was thought they had a snowball's chance to run the table. They lost 4 games overall. Grade: D+ The plus is for the 10 players who didn't play.

SMU was overwhelmingly believed to have had talent but it was believed they would come up just short of the CCG. They came up short. B

UH was overwhelmingly believed to be a mediocre football team. They were mediocre. C Would have been a C- but because of the schedule changes.

...aaaand it's ready for copy.

Don't overthink it. The grades are fair.
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2021 11:41 PM by SMUleopold.)
01-16-2021 11:13 PM
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Post: #52
RE: Final grades for every college football team this season
they make no sense for anyone who follows the league beyond surface level....

but we'll agree to disagree
01-16-2021 11:16 PM
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