(01-13-2021 02:55 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-13-2021 02:37 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Reports are coming out that McConnell rejected an emergency session on impeachment... so more than likely, President Trump will not be removed from office and possibly can run again on 2024.

And defeated by 12 millions votes as that is how he's trending.

tell me again how the president gets elected by winning the popular vote.

(01-13-2021 03:28 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(01-13-2021 02:55 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-13-2021 02:37 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Reports are coming out that McConnell rejected an emergency session on impeachment... so more than likely, President Trump will not be removed from office and possibly can run again on 2024.

And defeated by 12 millions votes as that is how he's trending.

tell me again how the president gets elected by winning the popular vote.

Tell me how the president gets elected when losing by 12 million votes.

(01-13-2021 03:52 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-13-2021 03:28 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(01-13-2021 02:55 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-13-2021 02:37 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Reports are coming out that McConnell rejected an emergency session on impeachment... so more than likely, President Trump will not be removed from office and possibly can run again on 2024.

And defeated by 12 millions votes as that is how he's trending.

tell me again how the president gets elected by winning the popular vote.

Tell me how the president gets elected when losing by 12 million votes.

There is this thing called the electoral college... you should look it up.

(01-13-2021 03:58 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(01-13-2021 03:52 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-13-2021 03:28 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(01-13-2021 02:55 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-13-2021 02:37 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Reports are coming out that McConnell rejected an emergency session on impeachment... so more than likely, President Trump will not be removed from office and possibly can run again on 2024.

And defeated by 12 millions votes as that is how he's trending.

tell me again how the president gets elected by winning the popular vote.

Tell me how the president gets elected when losing by 12 million votes.

There is this thing called the electoral college... you should look it up.

Yep. Please explain how one can realistically lose the popular vote by 12 million and win the electoral college.

(01-13-2021 01:44 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(01-13-2021 12:57 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-13-2021 12:11 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  to bar Trump from running in 2024 via the Section 3 of the 14th Amendment...

Quote:No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse...section-3/

To do that, the Senate must find Trump guilty of treason and insurrection. Zero evidence of either of those. The president is guilty of believing that there was enough fraud to change the course of the election in a process that saw the largest use of mail in ballots ever. Mail in ballots were found to be very susceptible to fraud by a bi-partisan commission led by President Carter. I'd add that polling indicates nearly half the nation is not confident in the election results. Thus, its not like the president is alone in his belief---nearly half the nation thinks the election looks pretty darn sketchy. The fact no court ever had an open hearing of the evidence and various media/tech platforms are attempting to silence any discussion of the issue simply furthers that suspicion.

When you consider the FBI says the attack was premeditated by various groups DAYS before the rally, that the breach of the capital occurred before the president's remarks even ended, and that the presidents remarks did not ask for violence---but just the opposite---he specifically directed "peaceful" "cheering" of their congressman---there is simply no case for incitement or that the president committed treason. You cant "incite" something that is already happening or had been planned days before by others. The impeachment is an over reach for having a rally that could foreseeably go off the rails in a time of high emotion and division. That wasnt the best decision---but its not treason, incitement, or insurrection.

I completely agree with this, but the problem that lies here is that the judge, jury and executioner will Congress, unless I am completely wrong.

I was listening to a commentary yesterday on the radio. Apparently, they can't do that (bar him from future office) if they don't actually convict him BEFORE the 20th @ 1:00pm. Supposedly, the reason is, the "impeach and remove" clause in the Constitution is inseparable, and you can't remove someone from an office who does not hold that office anymore. Therefore, you can't impeach someone if you can't also "remove" them. I don't know how accurate that analysis is, but it will be interesting to see how this plays out from an academic standpoint.

Actually, I would think that barring Trump from running in 2024 would do republicans a favor.

As far as the treason and insurrection claims, remember that an impeachment is not a court of law. The only reason for impeachment is to remove an officer so that he/she can be prosecuted without impairing his/her ability to perform the duties of the office. So it is not a criminal conviction.

(01-14-2021 11:18 AM)smudge12 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 11:07 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  I was listening to a commentary yesterday on the radio. Apparently, they can't do that (bar him from future office) if they don't actually convict him BEFORE the 20th @ 1:00pm. Supposedly, the reason is, the "impeach and remove" clause in the Constitution is inseparable, and you can't remove someone from an office who does not hold that office anymore. Therefore, you can't impeach someone if you can't also "remove" them. I don't know how accurate that analysis is, but it will be interesting to see how this plays out from an academic standpoint.

"...Impeachment for, and Conviction of..."

Two separate clauses.

There's already legal precedent for it anyways; most Constitutional scholars agree it can be done (because it has been). I suppose the SCOTUS can get involved, but I think they defer to the Legislative branch figuring out its own business.

I heard otherwise, it has been tried twice, one time it failed because the person was already out of office, the second time it went through after the person had already left office, mind you, they were not presidents. Also, the impeachment clause is for sitting Presidents and not former Presidents. So there could be an argument made that since President Trump is not President anymore after the 20th on 1:00 pm, his trial stops. Needless to say, this is all very interesting.

(01-14-2021 11:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Actually, I would think that barring Trump from running in 2024 would do republicans a favor.

As far as the treason and insurrection claims, remember that an impeachment is not a court of law. The only reason for impeachment is to remove an officer so that he/she can be prosecuted without impairing his/her ability to perform the duties of the office. So it is not a criminal conviction.

I don't know. I keep going back and forth in my head if this would help or hurt them in 2024. I can't think of one person that could energize the base like Trump if they ran.

The Republicans are probably pigeon holed to getting between 45-47% of the vote. They can only win if the Dems run a terrible, unlikeable candidate (Hillary). Any regular Dem with a positive favorability number will win.

(01-14-2021 12:14 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 11:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Actually, I would think that barring Trump from running in 2024 would do republicans a favor.
As far as the treason and insurrection claims, remember that an impeachment is not a court of law. The only reason for impeachment is to remove an officer so that he/she can be prosecuted without impairing his/her ability to perform the duties of the office. So it is not a criminal conviction.

I don't know. I keep going back and forth in my head if this would help or hurt them in 2024. I can't think of one person that could energize the base like Trump if they ran.
The Republicans are probably pigeon holed to getting between 45-47% of the vote. They can only win if the Dems run a terrible, unlikeable candidate (Hillary). Any regular Dem with a positive favorability number will win.

Do you think the base would be even a smidgeon less mobilized if they feel that the democrats screwed Trump?

And I agree with you about republican prospects as long as they make it about personalities. Unless democrats run an unlikeable candidate, the MSM will see too it that the democrat is painted in a much more favorable light. But what the MSM cannot manipulate is issues. If republicans run an issues campaign, they can win. They did that in 1994, but somehow they didn't get the message.

(01-14-2021 12:14 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 11:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Actually, I would think that barring Trump from running in 2024 would do republicans a favor.

As far as the treason and insurrection claims, remember that an impeachment is not a court of law. The only reason for impeachment is to remove an officer so that he/she can be prosecuted without impairing his/her ability to perform the duties of the office. So it is not a criminal conviction.

I don't know. I keep going back and forth in my head if this would help or hurt them in 2024. I can't think of one person that could energize the base like Trump if they ran.

The Republicans are probably pigeon holed to getting between 45-47% of the vote. They can only win if the Dems run a terrible, unlikeable candidate (Hillary). Any regular Dem with a positive favorability number will win.

Bill Clinton never got half the vote. Neither did JFK for that matter. Obama didn't even get 53% in 2008 despite the recession and facing the hapless McCain.

Top 10 %s since 1936-even with 3 from FDR, Dems only have 5 of 10. HW did better than FDR did in 1944 in the middle of the war.
1. LBJ 61.0 (64)
2. FDR 60.8 (36)
3. Nixon 60.7 (72)
4. Reagan 58.8 (84)
5. Ike 57.4 (56)
6. Ike 55.2 (52)
7. FDR 54.8 (40)
8. HW Bush 53.4 (88)
9. FDR 53.4 (44)
10. Obama 52.9 (08)

(01-14-2021 02:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 12:14 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 11:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Actually, I would think that barring Trump from running in 2024 would do republicans a favor.

As far as the treason and insurrection claims, remember that an impeachment is not a court of law. The only reason for impeachment is to remove an officer so that he/she can be prosecuted without impairing his/her ability to perform the duties of the office. So it is not a criminal conviction.

I don't know. I keep going back and forth in my head if this would help or hurt them in 2024. I can't think of one person that could energize the base like Trump if they ran.

The Republicans are probably pigeon holed to getting between 45-47% of the vote. They can only win if the Dems run a terrible, unlikeable candidate (Hillary). Any regular Dem with a positive favorability number will win.

Bill Clinton never got half the vote. Neither did JFK for that matter. Obama didn't even get 53% in 2008 despite the recession and facing the hapless McCain.

Top 10 %s since 1936-even with 3 from FDR, Dems only have 5 of 10. HW did better than FDR did in 1944 in the middle of the war.
1. LBJ 61.0 (64)
2. FDR 60.8 (36)
3. Nixon 60.7 (72)
4. Reagan 58.8 (84)
5. Ike 57.4 (56)
6. Ike 55.2 (52)
7. FDR 54.8 (40)
8. HW Bush 53.4 (88)
9. FDR 53.4 (44)
10. Obama 52.9 (08)

The GOP hasn't shown that kind of strength in 30+ years. I think they have a ceiling.

(01-14-2021 01:53 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 12:14 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(01-14-2021 11:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Actually, I would think that barring Trump from running in 2024 would do republicans a favor.
As far as the treason and insurrection claims, remember that an impeachment is not a court of law. The only reason for impeachment is to remove an officer so that he/she can be prosecuted without impairing his/her ability to perform the duties of the office. So it is not a criminal conviction.

I don't know. I keep going back and forth in my head if this would help or hurt them in 2024. I can't think of one person that could energize the base like Trump if they ran.
The Republicans are probably pigeon holed to getting between 45-47% of the vote. They can only win if the Dems run a terrible, unlikeable candidate (Hillary). Any regular Dem with a positive favorability number will win.

Do you think the base would be even a smidgeon less mobilized if they feel that the democrats screwed Trump?

And I agree with you about republican prospects as long as they make it about personalities. Unless democrats run an unlikeable candidate, the MSM will see too it that the democrat is painted in a much more favorable light. But what the MSM cannot manipulate is issues. If republicans run an issues campaign, they can win. They did that in 1994, but somehow they didn't get the message.

I don't even think "Republican voters" care about traditional Republican issues. They didn't even have a platform at the last convention.

(01-13-2021 01:04 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Yea they want a Civil War.. A war where their hands stay clean and claim victory.

(01-13-2021 01:04 PM)gdunn Wrote:  Yea they want a Civil War.. A war where their hands stay clean and claim victory.

They aren't ready for war.

It's bigger than Trump they want to scare any outsider with the means to run on "drain the Swamp" messages and the means to self-fund a campaign do so at your own peril. The ruling class is going to become a very small group of elitists, those who tow the line will be allowed to exist those who don't will be canceled.

(01-14-2021 07:58 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  It's bigger than Trump they want to scare any outsider with the means to run on "drain the Swamp" messages and the means to self-fund a campaign do so at your own peril. The ruling class is going to become a very small group of elitists, those who tow the line will be allowed to exist those who don't will be canceled.

Kinda like this board.