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Liz Cheney-traitor
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swagsurfer11 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
(01-13-2021 09:12 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Trump is not a republican, he is a populist. And he has pretty much done what populists do. Here in Texas, we sit next door to Louisiana, where Huey Long and Edwin Edwards have given us clear examples of what populists do.

The problem is that most voting Republicans (74M) are populists and not "republican" in the true sense. They've been pimping the base for decades in order to get them to turn out. If Trump adopted Bernie's platform tomorrow, the Trumpers would follow. The conservative movement is on its deathbed.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2021 09:15 AM by swagsurfer11.)
01-13-2021 09:14 AM
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RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
My problem with republicans is that if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. Their standing for nothing has caused the USA to fall for, in succession, GWB, Obama, Trump, and now Biden. I don't think anybody sees that as an outstanding group of individuals, and God help us when Kamala the **** 25th Amendments Sloe Joe.

At this point I have seen the democrats' vision for a socialist/communist Amerika, and that is a country where I don't want to live. I would like to see a competing vision from the republicans, but so far I don't have a clue what it is.

And Marx was right, if the socialists/communists are passionately supporting an agenda, and their opposition is not, then over time we will move toward that socialist/communist agenda. That seems to me to be the path that the USA has been on since Reagan left office.
01-13-2021 09:21 AM
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swagsurfer11 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
(01-13-2021 09:21 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  My problem with republicans is that if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. Their standing for nothing has caused the USA to fall for, in succession, GWB, Obama, Trump, and now Biden. I don't think anybody sees that as an outstanding group of individuals, and God help us when Kamala the **** 25th Amendments Sloe Joe.

At this point I have seen the democrats' vision for a socialist/communist Amerika, and that is a country where I don't want to live. I would like to see a competing vision from the republicans, but so far I don't have a clue what it is.

And Marx was right, if the socialists/communists are passionately supporting an agenda, and their opposition is not, then over time we will move toward that socialist/communist agenda. That seems to me to be the path that the USA has been on since Reagan left office.

They stand for corporatism and re-election. Trumpers are finally standing up and revolting. I think the Democrats split before going socialist/communist. Moderate Dems see an opportunity to create a majority governing coalition if they can pick up the RINOs. At that point the socialists leave.
01-13-2021 09:39 AM
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Crebman Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
(01-13-2021 02:17 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 02:10 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The RINO's are what they are. They are in the in the party---but they no longer run the party. This is their last hurrah. The membership is done with these worthless blowhards. They will be swept from our ranks in the primaries.

I completely disagree....

DJT fk'd the pubs, rinos, dippos up the arse and exposed for all to see....

after 2 yrs. o' fweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee stuffin' under *biden/corp, it's over.....

I find it amusing at best that so many see only D or R..............hehehehehehehe

You are exactly right. They are (most of them) all bought by the same money men. Anyone ever wonder why the Republicans are mostly silent and don’t actually DO anything?......could it be that are paid for their silence/inaction?
01-13-2021 09:40 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
(01-13-2021 09:21 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  My problem with republicans is that if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. Their standing for nothing has caused the USA to fall for, in succession, GWB, Obama, Trump, and now Biden. I don't think anybody sees that as an outstanding group of individuals, and God help us when Kamala the **** 25th Amendments Sloe Joe.

At this point I have seen the democrats' vision for a socialist/communist Amerika, and that is a country where I don't want to live. I would like to see a competing vision from the republicans, but so far I don't have a clue what it is.

And Marx was right, if the socialists/communists are passionately supporting an agenda, and their opposition is not, then over time we will move toward that socialist/communist agenda. That seems to me to be the path that the USA has been on since Reagan left office.

remind me when the internutz was unleashed....I seem to forget thingys of late...

MUG SHOTS OF AL GORE-ISM

what I find amusing is one still believes there were always two parties....

HERD MENTALITY

@fractured
01-13-2021 09:46 AM
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Crebman Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
(01-13-2021 09:39 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 09:21 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  My problem with republicans is that if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. Their standing for nothing has caused the USA to fall for, in succession, GWB, Obama, Trump, and now Biden. I don't think anybody sees that as an outstanding group of individuals, and God help us when Kamala the **** 25th Amendments Sloe Joe.

At this point I have seen the democrats' vision for a socialist/communist Amerika, and that is a country where I don't want to live. I would like to see a competing vision from the republicans, but so far I don't have a clue what it is.

And Marx was right, if the socialists/communists are passionately supporting an agenda, and their opposition is not, then over time we will move toward that socialist/communist agenda. That seems to me to be the path that the USA has been on since Reagan left office.

They stand for corporatism and re-election. Trumpers are finally standing up and revolting. I think the Democrats split before going socialist/communist. Moderate Dems see an opportunity to create a majority governing coalition if they can pick up the RINOs. At that point the socialists leave.

I disagree. Moderate Dems keep their mouths shut and fall in line lockstep for what the socialist leaders (money men) want.

The people that supply the money want an all powerful government that calls almost all the shots.........and it won’t be good for us common folk.
01-13-2021 09:47 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
Right now, republicans are torn between center-right historic republicans and Trump populists. I think we are about to see a similar split developing in the democrats between the AOC/Pressley/Tliab/Omar nutcases and the old mainline democrats. If those mainline democrats and those center-right republicans could unite, they would form a party that could win the day. But I don't see that happening.

I've spent a bit of time in Argentina, and I'm starting to see similarities between Trump and Juan Peron. Both were very much populists, Peron from more of a socialist/communist/fascist big government perspective, whereas Trump is more anti-big-government. But both have created a fanatical following that is close to 50% in both countries, and both are equally fanatically opposed by 50% on the other side. It hasn't worked well for Argentina, and I don't see it working well for us. The biggest difference may be that Andrew Lloyd Webber is unlikely to write a musical about Melania.

I actually see several lessons for us from Argentina. 100 years ago, Argentina had the 7th most prosperous economy in the world, and there were actually economists forecasting that Argentina and not the USA would emerge as the next great power. But starting with Yrigoyen and proceeding through a number of military coups, the country kind of flip-flopped between communism and fascism, pretty constantly growing the power of the central government. Investment shied away, and development of manufacturing slowed to a crawl. It still had some economic viability because of its huge agricultural production, so it never became Venezuela, but it is nowhere near the 7th most prosperous economy in the world today. I can see that kind of future for the USA unless we change directions--the great southern and midwestern bread basked will probably never let us starve, but economic opportunity for future generations could slowly disappear.
01-13-2021 09:47 AM
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RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
Too funny.
01-13-2021 09:50 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
(01-13-2021 09:40 AM)Crebman Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 02:17 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 02:10 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The RINO's are what they are. They are in the in the party---but they no longer run the party. This is their last hurrah. The membership is done with these worthless blowhards. They will be swept from our ranks in the primaries.

I completely disagree....

DJT fk'd the pubs, rinos, dippos up the arse and exposed for all to see....

after 2 yrs. o' fweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee stuffin' under *biden/corp, it's over.....

I find it amusing at best that so many see only D or R..............hehehehehehehe

You are exactly right. They are (most of them) all bought by the same money men. Anyone ever wonder why the Republicans are mostly silent and don’t actually DO anything?......could it be that are paid for their silence/inaction?

one cannot fix a problem by thine wand....

it was ~partially embedded going into '16....it's fully embedded in '21....

I simply missed it buh muh decade....

Y'ALL AIN' SEEN SHITE, YET
01-13-2021 09:51 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
(01-13-2021 09:47 AM)Crebman Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 09:39 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 09:21 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  My problem with republicans is that if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. Their standing for nothing has caused the USA to fall for, in succession, GWB, Obama, Trump, and now Biden. I don't think anybody sees that as an outstanding group of individuals, and God help us when Kamala the **** 25th Amendments Sloe Joe.

At this point I have seen the democrats' vision for a socialist/communist Amerika, and that is a country where I don't want to live. I would like to see a competing vision from the republicans, but so far I don't have a clue what it is.

And Marx was right, if the socialists/communists are passionately supporting an agenda, and their opposition is not, then over time we will move toward that socialist/communist agenda. That seems to me to be the path that the USA has been on since Reagan left office.

They stand for corporatism and re-election. Trumpers are finally standing up and revolting. I think the Democrats split before going socialist/communist. Moderate Dems see an opportunity to create a majority governing coalition if they can pick up the RINOs. At that point the socialists leave.

I disagree. Moderate Dems keep their mouths shut and fall in line lockstep for what the socialist leaders (money men) want.

The people that supply the money want an all powerful government that calls almost all the shots.........and it won’t be good for us common folk.

#lockedInSeigHiel
01-13-2021 09:56 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
Republicans have had to overcome two presidents with somewhat loathsome reputations in the 20th century--Hoover and Nixon. They never really repudiated Hoover and went 6 presidential election cycles without wining the White House. They pretty quickly repudiated Nixon, and after one-term Carter, they won 5 of the next 7. At this point they have a fairly tricky road--can the repudiate Trump personally without driving away those who support his ideas? I have great confidence that, as usual, republicans will screw it up.
01-13-2021 10:01 AM
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swagsurfer11 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
(01-13-2021 09:47 AM)Crebman Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 09:39 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 09:21 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  My problem with republicans is that if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. Their standing for nothing has caused the USA to fall for, in succession, GWB, Obama, Trump, and now Biden. I don't think anybody sees that as an outstanding group of individuals, and God help us when Kamala the **** 25th Amendments Sloe Joe.

At this point I have seen the democrats' vision for a socialist/communist Amerika, and that is a country where I don't want to live. I would like to see a competing vision from the republicans, but so far I don't have a clue what it is.

And Marx was right, if the socialists/communists are passionately supporting an agenda, and their opposition is not, then over time we will move toward that socialist/communist agenda. That seems to me to be the path that the USA has been on since Reagan left office.

They stand for corporatism and re-election. Trumpers are finally standing up and revolting. I think the Democrats split before going socialist/communist. Moderate Dems see an opportunity to create a majority governing coalition if they can pick up the RINOs. At that point the socialists leave.

I disagree. Moderate Dems keep their mouths shut and fall in line lockstep for what the socialist leaders (money men) want.

The people that supply the money want an all powerful government that calls almost all the shots.........and it won’t be good for us common folk.

They keep their mouth shut because they want to win elections, same thing for the establish Republican Party. The problem is that these fringes, left and right think that the majority of the country wants their policies. AOC and the squad lost a ton of winnable House and Senate seats for the Dems. The MAGA/Tea Party crowd has lost a bunch of House and Senate seats for the Reps over the past decade. The establishment Dem & Rep party are closer in ideology than either of the 2 fringes.
01-13-2021 10:02 AM
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swagsurfer11 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
(01-13-2021 09:47 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Right now, republicans are torn between center-right historic republicans and Trump populists. I think we are about to see a similar split developing in the democrats between the AOC/Pressley/Tliab/Omar nutcases and the old mainline democrats. If those mainline democrats and those center-right republicans could unite, they would form a party that could win the day. But I don't see that happening.

I've spent a bit of time in Argentina, and I'm starting to see similarities between Trump and Juan Peron. Both were very much populists, Peron from more of a socialist/communist/fascist big government perspective, whereas Trump is more anti-big-government. But both have created a fanatical following that is close to 50% in both countries, and both are equally fanatically opposed by 50% on the other side. It hasn't worked well for Argentina, and I don't see it working well for us. The biggest difference may be that Andrew Lloyd Webber is unlikely to write a musical about Melania.

I actually see several lessons for us from Argentina. 100 years ago, Argentina had the 7th most prosperous economy in the world, and there were actually economists forecasting that Argentina and not the USA would emerge as the next great power. But starting with Yrigoyen and proceeding through a number of military coups, the country kind of flip-flopped between communism and fascism, pretty constantly growing the power of the central government. Investment shied away, and development of manufacturing slowed to a crawl. It still had some economic viability because of its huge agricultural production, so it never became Venezuela, but it is nowhere near the 7th most prosperous economy in the world today. I can see that kind of future for the USA unless we change directions--the great southern and midwestern bread basked will probably never let us starve, but economic opportunity for future generations could slowly disappear.

I disagree because they both have the same corporate donor base.
01-13-2021 10:03 AM
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swagsurfer11 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
(01-13-2021 10:01 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Republicans have had to overcome two presidents with somewhat loathsome reputations in the 20th century--Hoover and Nixon. They never really repudiated Hoover and went 6 presidential election cycles without wining the White House. They pretty quickly repudiated Nixon, and after one-term Carter, they won 5 of the next 7. At this point they have a fairly tricky road--can the repudiate Trump personally without driving away those who support his ideas? I have great confidence that, as usual, republicans will screw it up.

You've seen the last Republican president. In 2024, Trump forms the American First party. Traditional Republicans run a senator (Thune, Sasse, Rubio, Scott). The squad splits off and runs their own candidate. Dems run a traditional governor or senator (Cuomo, Witmer, Booker, Johnson) and win with less than 50% of the vote.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2021 10:08 AM by swagsurfer11.)
01-13-2021 10:04 AM
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Post: #35
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
(01-13-2021 10:02 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  The MAGA/Tea Party crowd

I wouldn't equate MAGA and the Tea Party. They have very different goals and objectives, although both have contempt for the DC establishment. And the original TEA Party has gotten badly corrupted by the RINO establishment, who badly needed something to hang their hats on after 2008.

The original TEA Party stood more for economic and personal liberty. It basically arose out of bipartisan opposition to the bank bailouts in 2008. MAGA is more confrontational and anti-swamp.
01-13-2021 10:07 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
(01-13-2021 10:04 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 10:01 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Republicans have had to overcome two presidents with somewhat loathsome reputations in the 20th century--Hoover and Nixon. They never really repudiated Hoover and went 6 presidential election cycles without wining the White House. They pretty quickly repudiated Nixon, and after one-term Carter, they won 5 of the next 7. At this point they have a fairly tricky road--can the repudiate Trump personally without driving away those who support his ideas? I have great confidence that, as usual, republicans will screw it up.

You've seen the last Republican president.

If that is true, and you may be right, it will not be good for this country. Mark my words.
01-13-2021 10:09 AM
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swagsurfer11 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
(01-13-2021 10:07 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 10:02 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  The MAGA/Tea Party crowd

I wouldn't equate MAGA and the Tea Party. They have very different goals and objectives, although both have contempt for the DC establishment. And the original TEA Party has gotten badly corrupted by the RINO establishment, who badly needed something to hang their hats on after 2008.

The original TEA Party stood more for economic and personal liberty. It basically arose out of bipartisan opposition to the bank bailouts in 2008. MAGA is more confrontational and anti-swamp.

MAGA is the evolution of the Tea Party which is the evolution of Palinism. The Tea Party DGAF about economic and personal liberty. That was all a front. They didn't like the changes that were happening in this country, opposition to bank bailouts and healthcare was a convenient way of expressing this.
01-13-2021 10:15 AM
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Post: #38
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
(01-13-2021 10:09 AM)Crebman Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 10:04 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 10:01 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Republicans have had to overcome two presidents with somewhat loathsome reputations in the 20th century--Hoover and Nixon. They never really repudiated Hoover and went 6 presidential election cycles without wining the White House. They pretty quickly repudiated Nixon, and after one-term Carter, they won 5 of the next 7. At this point they have a fairly tricky road--can the repudiate Trump personally without driving away those who support his ideas? I have great confidence that, as usual, republicans will screw it up.

You've seen the last Republican president.

If that is true, and you may be right, it will not be good for this country. Mark my words.

The idiots don't realize that one party rule = communism. Or maybe they do realize it and are all on board with it.
01-13-2021 10:18 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
(01-13-2021 09:46 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 09:21 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  My problem with republicans is that if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. Their standing for nothing has caused the USA to fall for, in succession, GWB, Obama, Trump, and now Biden. I don't think anybody sees that as an outstanding group of individuals, and God help us when Kamala the **** 25th Amendments Sloe Joe.

At this point I have seen the democrats' vision for a socialist/communist Amerika, and that is a country where I don't want to live. I would like to see a competing vision from the republicans, but so far I don't have a clue what it is.

And Marx was right, if the socialists/communists are passionately supporting an agenda, and their opposition is not, then over time we will move toward that socialist/communist agenda. That seems to me to be the path that the USA has been on since Reagan left office.

remind me when the internutz was unleashed....I seem to forget thingys of late...

MUG SHOTS OF AL GORE-ISM

what I find amusing is one still believes there were always two parties....

HERD MENTALITY

@fractured

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01-13-2021 10:23 AM
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Was SoMs Eagle Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Liz Cheney-traitor
(01-13-2021 10:15 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 10:07 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 10:02 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  The MAGA/Tea Party crowd

I wouldn't equate MAGA and the Tea Party. They have very different goals and objectives, although both have contempt for the DC establishment. And the original TEA Party has gotten badly corrupted by the RINO establishment, who badly needed something to hang their hats on after 2008.

The original TEA Party stood more for economic and personal liberty. It basically arose out of bipartisan opposition to the bank bailouts in 2008. MAGA is more confrontational and anti-swamp.

MAGA is the evolution of the Tea Party which is the evolution of Palinism. The Tea Party DGAF about economic and personal liberty. That was all a front. They didn't like the changes that were happening in this country, opposition to bank bailouts and healthcare was a convenient way of expressing this.

The biggest fool is the one who thinks he knows....
01-13-2021 10:34 AM
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