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westwolf Offline
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Post: #1
Conference divisions, scheduling formats
Any changes in the format of the major conferences or are they all going back to 2019 structure?
01-12-2021 06:39 PM
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CarlSmithCenter Offline
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RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
(01-12-2021 06:39 PM)westwolf Wrote:  Any changes in the format of the major conferences or are they all going back to 2019 structure?

I assume it will go back to normal if full seasons can happen, though I’d rather see the SEC and ACC go division less with three permanent opponents and five of the other ten every other year. I also assume the AAC will need, and get, another waiver to play a CCG with only 11 schools (UConn left and then didn’t even play this fall).
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2021 11:44 PM by CarlSmithCenter.)
01-12-2021 11:44 PM
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Post: #3
RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
(01-12-2021 11:44 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 06:39 PM)westwolf Wrote:  Any changes in the format of the major conferences or are they all going back to 2019 structure?

I assume it will go back to normal if full seasons can happen, though I’d rather see the SEC and ACC go division less with three permanent opponents and five of the other ten every other year. I also assume the AAC will need, and get, another waiver to play a CCG with only 11 schools (UConn left and then didn’t even play this fall).

The waiver is for two years and everyone was given a free pass this year. I am unsure if that will mean we get 2021 and 2022. However I think a rule change with a minimum number of games and a requirement that you play every school in conference once every so many years will happen, allowing for what you wanted. Such a set up would work well for the AAC. I like that better than the SEC set up since you play everyone home and home at least once every four years.
01-12-2021 11:48 PM
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RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
(01-12-2021 11:44 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 06:39 PM)westwolf Wrote:  Any changes in the format of the major conferences or are they all going back to 2019 structure?

I assume it will go back to normal if full seasons can happen, though I’d rather see the SEC and ACC go division less with three permanent opponents and five of the other ten every other year. I also assume the AAC will need, and get, another waiver to play a CCG with only 11 schools (UConn left and then didn’t even play this fall).

Couldn't they get a permanent wavier like the Sun Belt does to get a CCG game with 10 schools? I'd be thinking assuming Boise State falls through which team do you go after to get to 12?
01-13-2021 01:13 AM
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Post: #5
RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
(01-12-2021 11:48 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 11:44 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 06:39 PM)westwolf Wrote:  Any changes in the format of the major conferences or are they all going back to 2019 structure?

I assume it will go back to normal if full seasons can happen, though I’d rather see the SEC and ACC go division less with three permanent opponents and five of the other ten every other year. I also assume the AAC will need, and get, another waiver to play a CCG with only 11 schools (UConn left and then didn’t even play this fall).

The waiver is for two years and everyone was given a free pass this year. I am unsure if that will mean we get 2021 and 2022. However I think a rule change with a minimum number of games and a requirement that you play every school in conference once every so many years will happen, allowing for what you wanted. Such a set up would work well for the AAC. I like that better than the SEC set up since you play everyone home and home at least once every four years.

I suspect they'll make the AAC choose between 10 or 12 coming up once the waiver is over. I just don't know who they would pick for team 12. But who knows if the CFP goes to 8-teams, they may go back to requiring you needing 12 teams for a Conference Title game.
01-13-2021 03:04 AM
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RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
Some things I would like to see considered made permanent

#1 champions week
The Big Ten had an interesting idea with the champions week concept. Where the scedule for the last week of the regular rseason is not determined until after the 2nd last week.

Then play the CCG on the last week of the regular season, have the #3 and #4 teams play a game if it is not a rematch. Then have #5 play #6., and so forth.

But the key is, since the CCG is now a regular season game, the conference can make up whatever rules they want for who plays in it.

# 2. Move last game of regular season to 2nd saturday of December.
I liked having a lot of college football to watch in December. I think they should make this change permanent.
01-13-2021 08:05 AM
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goofus Offline
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RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
Before 2020, I always had this theory that the Big Ten would go to a divisionless format in 2022. The reason is that The Big Ten had set up a 6‐year rotation from 2016-2021 where everybody plays everybody at least twice and at least once at home.

Once that 6-year cycle was done, I figured the Big Ten would say, yeah, I don't think divisions are working, let's change the NCAA rule, just scrap the divisions and have the top 2 teams make the CCG.

Now that 6-year cycle has been messed up. I wonder if the Big Ten will go back and try to play the original 2020 schedule again in 2022 and then scrap the divisions in 2023 instead.
01-13-2021 08:20 AM
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Post: #8
RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
(01-13-2021 08:05 AM)goofus Wrote:  Some things I would like to see considered made permanent

#1 champions week
The Big Ten had an interesting idea with the champions week concept. Where the scedule for the last week of the regular rseason is not determined until after the 2nd last week.

Then play the CCG on the last week of the regular season, have the #3 and #4 teams play a game if it is not a rematch. Then have #5 play #6., and so forth.

But the key is, since the CCG is now a regular season game, the conference can make up whatever rules they want for who plays in it.

Then you'd only have to regularly schedule 8 Big Ten games and drop one and make the "Champions Week" the "9th" Big Ten game. I'm guessing most Big Ten teams would rather stick with the regular 9 game Big Ten schedule and know the 9 teams they are going to play. This way the CCG becomes an extra game for the East and West Divisional champions. Under your format, Ohio State would just play 12 games vs. 13 for other CG participants playing under the regular format. Do OSU fans want to hear Dabo Swinney say "Ohio State only played 12 games, we played 13" next year?
01-13-2021 08:23 AM
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goofus Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
I was under the impression the reason everybody got a "free pass" for CCG rules was because no team was going over the 12 game regular season limit this year.

So conferences were more or less free to make up whatever rules they wanted for who made the CCG.
01-13-2021 08:28 AM
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Post: #10
RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
(01-13-2021 08:05 AM)goofus Wrote:  Some things I would like to see considered made permanent

#1 champions week
The Big Ten had an interesting idea with the champions week concept. Where the scedule for the last week of the regular rseason is not determined until after the 2nd last week.

Then play the CCG on the last week of the regular season, have the #3 and #4 teams play a game if it is not a rematch. Then have #5 play #6., and so forth.

Eh, while I was fine with makeup games being played the same day/weekend as some CCGs, it was still weird seeing it. I prefer the old "CCG weekend" where all the CCG games, and only CCG games, are played on a last Friday/Saturday before CFP/Bowl selection.

But we know crises can spawn innovation so it will be interesting to see what, if any, of the stop-gap measures conferences took this year become adopted on a more permanent basis.
01-13-2021 08:35 AM
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CarlSmithCenter Offline
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RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
(01-13-2021 01:13 AM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 11:44 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 06:39 PM)westwolf Wrote:  Any changes in the format of the major conferences or are they all going back to 2019 structure?

I assume it will go back to normal if full seasons can happen, though I’d rather see the SEC and ACC go division less with three permanent opponents and five of the other ten every other year. I also assume the AAC will need, and get, another waiver to play a CCG with only 11 schools (UConn left and then didn’t even play this fall).

Couldn't they get a permanent wavier like the Sun Belt does to get a CCG game with 10 schools? I'd be thinking assuming Boise State falls through which team do you go after to get to 12?

I think the Sun Belt and the Big XII fall under the “10 or fewer teams” proviso; they can have two divisions of 5 and play a full round robin in the division, and then play either 4 or 5 of the other division schools and meet the CCG game rule that was revised for the Big XII after Mizzou, Nebraska, A&M and Colorado a bit after jumped ship so they could still have their showcase at JerryWorld. If you have more than 10 but an odd number, like the AAC does post-UConn, you need a waiver. I suspect they’ll either push hard for Boise or convince Navy to go Indy again if it is an issue.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2021 08:44 AM by CarlSmithCenter.)
01-13-2021 08:42 AM
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Post: #12
RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
(01-13-2021 01:13 AM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 11:44 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 06:39 PM)westwolf Wrote:  Any changes in the format of the major conferences or are they all going back to 2019 structure?

I assume it will go back to normal if full seasons can happen, though I’d rather see the SEC and ACC go division less with three permanent opponents and five of the other ten every other year. I also assume the AAC will need, and get, another waiver to play a CCG with only 11 schools (UConn left and then didn’t even play this fall).

Couldn't they get a permanent wavier like the Sun Belt does to get a CCG game with 10 schools? I'd be thinking assuming Boise State falls through which team do you go after to get to 12?

My understanding is that you don't need a waiver to have a CCG, as long as you play either a full round robin schedule or have two divisions of equal or nearly equal size (that is, no division can have more than one more member than the other) and each division plays a full round robin schedule. As far as I know, there is no requirement that all teams in a conference play the same number of conference games every year.
01-13-2021 08:45 AM
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RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
I believe that is correct, Ken.
01-13-2021 08:49 AM
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Crayton Offline
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RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
They should all go back to 2019, except the American who got a divisionless waiver for 2020 (not that they ended up needing it) and 2021.

I too would like to see a few changes.

I think the Big Ten could go divisionless and do flex weeks the week before and the week after Rivalry Week. Home sites are predetermined and, yes, it would cap things at 12 games, but it’s been shown that you can ensure the top teams play each other, even with predetermined home sites and choosing flex opponents 13-days out.

In the ACC I’d like the Orange Bowl play-in BEFORE Rivalry Week and for the week after Rivalry Week to consist of more cross-division flex rivalries, including Notre Dame and either UMass or UConn. The 8th game would be played in Charlotte and potentially feature Notre Dame or whomever the top 2 “away” teams are.
01-13-2021 08:58 AM
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RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
(01-13-2021 08:45 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 01:13 AM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 11:44 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 06:39 PM)westwolf Wrote:  Any changes in the format of the major conferences or are they all going back to 2019 structure?

I assume it will go back to normal if full seasons can happen, though I’d rather see the SEC and ACC go division less with three permanent opponents and five of the other ten every other year. I also assume the AAC will need, and get, another waiver to play a CCG with only 11 schools (UConn left and then didn’t even play this fall).

Couldn't they get a permanent wavier like the Sun Belt does to get a CCG game with 10 schools? I'd be thinking assuming Boise State falls through which team do you go after to get to 12?

My understanding is that you don't need a waiver to have a CCG, as long as you play either a full round robin schedule or have two divisions of equal or nearly equal size (that is, no division can have more than one more member than the other) and each division plays a full round robin schedule. As far as I know, there is no requirement that all teams in a conference play the same number of conference games every year.

Right. For example, a 6 team AAC division could all play 8 games (5-0-3) and the 5 team division could play 7 or 8 (4-0-3 or 4-0-4). 2 teams would have only 7 games. They could just use winning % for the standings. Or the two could play each other twice. Or they could designate ooc games to count. For example, UCF vs. FAU and USF vs. FIU could count as conference games. There are any number of possibilities. The only requirement is a round robin within the division.
01-13-2021 11:39 AM
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Post: #16
RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
(01-13-2021 11:39 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 08:45 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 01:13 AM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 11:44 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 06:39 PM)westwolf Wrote:  Any changes in the format of the major conferences or are they all going back to 2019 structure?

I assume it will go back to normal if full seasons can happen, though I’d rather see the SEC and ACC go division less with three permanent opponents and five of the other ten every other year. I also assume the AAC will need, and get, another waiver to play a CCG with only 11 schools (UConn left and then didn’t even play this fall).

Couldn't they get a permanent wavier like the Sun Belt does to get a CCG game with 10 schools? I'd be thinking assuming Boise State falls through which team do you go after to get to 12?

My understanding is that you don't need a waiver to have a CCG, as long as you play either a full round robin schedule or have two divisions of equal or nearly equal size (that is, no division can have more than one more member than the other) and each division plays a full round robin schedule. As far as I know, there is no requirement that all teams in a conference play the same number of conference games every year.

Right. For example, a 6 team AAC division could all play 8 games (5-0-3) and the 5 team division could play 7 or 8 (4-0-3 or 4-0-4). 2 teams would have only 7 games. They could just use winning % for the standings. Or the two could play each other twice. Or they could designate ooc games to count. For example, UCF vs. FAU and USF vs. FIU could count as conference games. There are any number of possibilities. The only requirement is a round robin within the division.

Ew. Has any conference ever considered OOC games for the conference win-loss records that determine division standings?

My hunch is that the conference would simply use the division-only games for the division standings, with cross-conference games used for second-level tie breakers.
01-13-2021 11:56 AM
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Post: #17
RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
(01-13-2021 08:42 AM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 01:13 AM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 11:44 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 06:39 PM)westwolf Wrote:  Any changes in the format of the major conferences or are they all going back to 2019 structure?

I assume it will go back to normal if full seasons can happen, though I’d rather see the SEC and ACC go division less with three permanent opponents and five of the other ten every other year. I also assume the AAC will need, and get, another waiver to play a CCG with only 11 schools (UConn left and then didn’t even play this fall).

Couldn't they get a permanent wavier like the Sun Belt does to get a CCG game with 10 schools? I'd be thinking assuming Boise State falls through which team do you go after to get to 12?

I think the Sun Belt and the Big XII fall under the “10 or fewer teams” proviso; they can have two divisions of 5 and play a full round robin in the division, and then play either 4 or 5 of the other division schools and meet the CCG game rule that was revised for the Big XII after Mizzou, Nebraska, A&M and Colorado a bit after jumped ship so they could still have their showcase at JerryWorld. If you have more than 10 but an odd number, like the AAC does post-UConn, you need a waiver. I suspect they’ll either push hard for Boise or convince Navy to go Indy again if it is an issue.

Aresco has already said we will go unbalanced divisions if it comes to that. The AAC will not be adding just to add. There is no need. Nor would we ever force Navy out and my understanding is Navy is delighted to be in the conference and has no intention of leaving.

In fact Navy has probably done the most to set the attitude about other teams of anyone. They were the first to speak up and tell Boise they could kick rocks when they asked for special treatment before the OBE completed its transformation to the AAC. I would say that is heavy influence on why the AAC did absolutely zero to help move Boise move football only to the conference. If you can't make here on your own and take an equal share, while making an equal push, then you aren't invited, that has a lot to do with the tone set when the conference was first formed. The AAC lost the plot some with the Big Xii nonsense but have been pretty consistent with it since.
01-13-2021 11:58 AM
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RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
(01-13-2021 11:58 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 08:42 AM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 01:13 AM)46566 Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 11:44 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 06:39 PM)westwolf Wrote:  Any changes in the format of the major conferences or are they all going back to 2019 structure?

I assume it will go back to normal if full seasons can happen, though I’d rather see the SEC and ACC go division less with three permanent opponents and five of the other ten every other year. I also assume the AAC will need, and get, another waiver to play a CCG with only 11 schools (UConn left and then didn’t even play this fall).

Couldn't they get a permanent wavier like the Sun Belt does to get a CCG game with 10 schools? I'd be thinking assuming Boise State falls through which team do you go after to get to 12?

I think the Sun Belt and the Big XII fall under the “10 or fewer teams” proviso; they can have two divisions of 5 and play a full round robin in the division, and then play either 4 or 5 of the other division schools and meet the CCG game rule that was revised for the Big XII after Mizzou, Nebraska, A&M and Colorado a bit after jumped ship so they could still have their showcase at JerryWorld. If you have more than 10 but an odd number, like the AAC does post-UConn, you need a waiver. I suspect they’ll either push hard for Boise or convince Navy to go Indy again if it is an issue.

Aresco has already said we will go unbalanced divisions if it comes to that. The AAC will not be adding just to add. There is no need. Nor would we ever force Navy out and my understanding is Navy is delighted to be in the conference and has no intention of leaving.

Navy is a very strong member of the AAC so any talk of cutting off their football deal is silly. And Aresco is right more generally - the AAC should not add a team just to comply with some divisional/CCG rules, it should only add if a team brings real value.
01-13-2021 12:13 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
I'd like to think that 2020 advanced the cause of divisionless scheduling alternatives.
01-13-2021 12:26 PM
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esayem Offline
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RE: Conference divisions, scheduling formats
(01-13-2021 11:58 AM)Foreverandever Wrote:  In fact Navy has probably done the most to set the attitude about other teams of anyone. They were the first to speak up and tell Boise they could kick rocks when they asked for special treatment before the OBE completed its transformation to the AAC. I would say that is heavy influence on why the AAC did absolutely zero to help move Boise move football only to the conference. If you can't make here on your own and take an equal share, while making an equal push, then you aren't invited, that has a lot to do with the tone set when the conference was first formed. The AAC lost the plot some with the Big Xii nonsense but have been pretty consistent with it since.

Navy playing a yearly game against Boise State makes about as much sense as Hawaii playing ECU on a yearly basis. Perhaps that's why they don't care for some of this mountain expansion this board is gaga over?
01-13-2021 12:49 PM
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