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[split] BYU/CFP/playoff split discussion
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #101
RE: [split] BYU/CFP/playoff split discussion
(01-19-2021 08:00 AM)Crayton Wrote:  A question from another thread is, then, how to improve the regular season to make it more College Football -like?

1) Not expand the playoff or maybe even end the playoff
2) Bring back the bread-and-butter rivalries
3) ??? Stop scheduling a decade-out and give more year-of flexibility?
What else?

Flexibility can be good or not so good. Maybe if there are open dates not booked years in advance, you might get a fun game for neutral fans, like, say, Ohio State at Oklahoma.

On the other hand... Ohio State and Oklahoma played a home/home series a few years ago that was booked many years in advance. Sometimes when you wait until the last minute you don't get the best matchup. Maybe if teams waited for the last minute to fill their schedule, and OU wanted a home game but couldn't get a big-name opponent to come to Norman on short notice, then instead of selling out their stadium at premium prices and playing Ohio State in prime time on ABC, they end up with some empty seats for Ohio-Oklahoma at 11 am on Fox Sports 1.
01-19-2021 02:00 PM
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #102
RE: [split] BYU/CFP/playoff split discussion
Ya, ideally the flex week would have some national coordination so that the top 25% play each other, the second 25% play each other and the bottom 50% play more regional opponents. Roughly. Home games (+ a handful of neutral sites) would have to be pre-determined to ease the logistics. I kinda doubt the coordination could be FBS-wide, maybe ESPN properties-wide, ha. Oklahoma won't play Ohio (unless the Bobcats are also Top 25), but if the Sooners are in the doldrums they may be playing a CTZ G5 team.
(This post was last modified: 01-19-2021 08:03 PM by Crayton.)
01-19-2021 08:01 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #103
RE: [split] BYU/CFP/playoff split discussion
(01-19-2021 02:00 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-19-2021 08:00 AM)Crayton Wrote:  A question from another thread is, then, how to improve the regular season to make it more College Football -like?

1) Not expand the playoff or maybe even end the playoff
2) Bring back the bread-and-butter rivalries
3) ??? Stop scheduling a decade-out and give more year-of flexibility?
What else?

Flexibility can be good or not so good. Maybe if there are open dates not booked years in advance, you might get a fun game for neutral fans, like, say, Ohio State at Oklahoma.

On the other hand... Ohio State and Oklahoma played a home/home series a few years ago that was booked many years in advance. Sometimes when you wait until the last minute you don't get the best matchup. Maybe if teams waited for the last minute to fill their schedule, and OU wanted a home game but couldn't get a big-name opponent to come to Norman on short notice, then instead of selling out their stadium at premium prices and playing Ohio State in prime time on ABC, they end up with some empty seats for Ohio-Oklahoma at 11 am on Fox Sports 1.

Yes, and no school wants to be scrambling around at the last minute trying to get a game.

There are advantages to flexibility, and from the fan POV no apparent disadvantages, but to those actually responsible for putting together schedules, it can be very rough.

For example, while this season some schools were able to throw together attractive last-minute matchups, one big reason for that was the virus, which had scrambled almost everyone's eggs meaning there were others in the same boat looking for a game. In a normal year, a school that enters a season with a gap in the schedule is unlikely to find another opponent so easily. And then the fans will scream about why there isn't a game for them to watch.
(This post was last modified: 01-20-2021 08:51 AM by quo vadis.)
01-20-2021 08:50 AM
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #104
RE: [split] BYU/CFP/playoff split discussion
Ya, it'd have to be coordinated from the top down so that no one gets the shaft. Home games would have to be pre-determined so that the logistics of pulling off a game can be completed. And, outside of the Top 25, TV won't matter near as much as fans at the game, so most of these flex opponents will be determined early in the season.

I agree. Even if the Big Ten or Pac-12 tried their season-end format in a non-COVID year, only the CCG would generate interest and everyone else's 12th games would be better off shuffled back into Sept/Oct/Nov. Hmm, maybe these 14-team conferences should do an early November flex week (@East then @West, alternating years). Top 3 teams from each division are paired, then among the bottom 8 teams those who haven't visited for the longest stretch are paired.

I still think there should be an SEC/ACC/B12/ND scheduling alliance to boost TV revenue, but that is for another thread.
01-20-2021 09:24 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #105
RE: [split] BYU/CFP/playoff split discussion
(01-18-2021 10:33 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(01-18-2021 10:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:59 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 09:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I suspect 8 teams will be viewed as just "piling it higher and deeper", with not much value-added from a TV view.

Well, isn’t this self-induced when some teams get in because of a thirteenth game and others don’t? If there is any fatigue, I’d target the value of the conference finals rather than the playoff. And I suspect this is part of the problem in that there isn’t a committment to AQ, and no consistent regard for ranking and placement by the committee in an attempt to make all these other games “matter,” even if the committee has kinda betrayed this.

This game can’t get better, more appealing, or attractive because of bowl alliances nobody alive can understand why it still matters, while the system maintains this “Does it matter? Wait and see!” mystique. We’ve lost meaningful rivalries for this ridiculous structure. It deserves the criticism and disconnect it is causing itself.

I’ll take FCS any time now. Even with the drop in quality, the season progresses with its own purpose and tempo, but a purpose nevertheless. Where you can maybe lose a game and not have to feel like that flub has to keep you waiting with cameras in a room finding out the same time we all do if it mattered or not. Heck...when did cfb turn into MTV?

IMO, the lesson of FCS is that playoffs don't matter to public appeal much. FCS has this elaborate inclusive playoff system where everyone has a "win on the field path" to the title, and yet the overwhelming body of sports fans could care less. It's the same as it ever was.

Meanwhile, big time college football, for all its perceived flaws, is as well-paid as ever.
There is a very very big flaw in your argument- the initial draw is so absurdly different.

I would argue that the lack of appeal for FCS is that it's a bunch of really small fanbase schools that everyone goes in realizing is a classification down- not the postseason model.

FCS is an automatic excuse for alumni to tune out. Especially the Wofford type programs that will never be FBS.

FBS is an automatic excuse to care because everyone can host a P5, get in the Top 25 and win a bowl game. All of which are big deals to an average G5 fanbase.
01-20-2021 09:51 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #106
RE: [split] BYU/CFP/playoff split discussion
(01-20-2021 09:51 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(01-18-2021 10:33 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(01-18-2021 10:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:59 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 09:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I suspect 8 teams will be viewed as just "piling it higher and deeper", with not much value-added from a TV view.

Well, isn’t this self-induced when some teams get in because of a thirteenth game and others don’t? If there is any fatigue, I’d target the value of the conference finals rather than the playoff. And I suspect this is part of the problem in that there isn’t a committment to AQ, and no consistent regard for ranking and placement by the committee in an attempt to make all these other games “matter,” even if the committee has kinda betrayed this.

This game can’t get better, more appealing, or attractive because of bowl alliances nobody alive can understand why it still matters, while the system maintains this “Does it matter? Wait and see!” mystique. We’ve lost meaningful rivalries for this ridiculous structure. It deserves the criticism and disconnect it is causing itself.

I’ll take FCS any time now. Even with the drop in quality, the season progresses with its own purpose and tempo, but a purpose nevertheless. Where you can maybe lose a game and not have to feel like that flub has to keep you waiting with cameras in a room finding out the same time we all do if it mattered or not. Heck...when did cfb turn into MTV?

IMO, the lesson of FCS is that playoffs don't matter to public appeal much. FCS has this elaborate inclusive playoff system where everyone has a "win on the field path" to the title, and yet the overwhelming body of sports fans could care less. It's the same as it ever was.

Meanwhile, big time college football, for all its perceived flaws, is as well-paid as ever.
There is a very very big flaw in your argument- the initial draw is so absurdly different.

I would argue that the lack of appeal for FCS is that it's a bunch of really small fanbase schools that everyone goes in realizing is a classification down- not the postseason model.

FCS is an automatic excuse for alumni to tune out. Especially the Wofford type programs that will never be FBS.

FBS is an automatic excuse to care because everyone can host a P5, get in the Top 25 and win a bowl game. All of which are big deals to an average G5 fanbase.

You have big FCS schools who just don’t have a student enrollment profile that gives a flip about football. I wouldn’t say it’s only level or size. You have some state flagships who do quite well and draw. We just don’t know what a leap forward would look like to a Delaware, Montana, NDSU, or maybe a Cal Davis, etc..

I wouldn’t say all in FBS can host a P5. When’s the last time a major came to Kent State or Bowling Green? Who’s lining up to go to ULM? Some schools can pull a name or two, but the getting is definitely not as good as it once was, if ever.
01-21-2021 05:58 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #107
RE: [split] BYU/CFP/playoff split discussion
(01-21-2021 05:58 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-20-2021 09:51 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(01-18-2021 10:33 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(01-18-2021 10:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:59 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Well, isn’t this self-induced when some teams get in because of a thirteenth game and others don’t? If there is any fatigue, I’d target the value of the conference finals rather than the playoff. And I suspect this is part of the problem in that there isn’t a committment to AQ, and no consistent regard for ranking and placement by the committee in an attempt to make all these other games “matter,” even if the committee has kinda betrayed this.

This game can’t get better, more appealing, or attractive because of bowl alliances nobody alive can understand why it still matters, while the system maintains this “Does it matter? Wait and see!” mystique. We’ve lost meaningful rivalries for this ridiculous structure. It deserves the criticism and disconnect it is causing itself.

I’ll take FCS any time now. Even with the drop in quality, the season progresses with its own purpose and tempo, but a purpose nevertheless. Where you can maybe lose a game and not have to feel like that flub has to keep you waiting with cameras in a room finding out the same time we all do if it mattered or not. Heck...when did cfb turn into MTV?

IMO, the lesson of FCS is that playoffs don't matter to public appeal much. FCS has this elaborate inclusive playoff system where everyone has a "win on the field path" to the title, and yet the overwhelming body of sports fans could care less. It's the same as it ever was.

Meanwhile, big time college football, for all its perceived flaws, is as well-paid as ever.
There is a very very big flaw in your argument- the initial draw is so absurdly different.

I would argue that the lack of appeal for FCS is that it's a bunch of really small fanbase schools that everyone goes in realizing is a classification down- not the postseason model.

FCS is an automatic excuse for alumni to tune out. Especially the Wofford type programs that will never be FBS.

FBS is an automatic excuse to care because everyone can host a P5, get in the Top 25 and win a bowl game. All of which are big deals to an average G5 fanbase.

You have big FCS schools who just don’t have a student enrollment profile that gives a flip about football. I wouldn’t say it’s only level or size. You have some state flagships who do quite well and draw. We just don’t know what a leap forward would look like to a Delaware, Montana, NDSU, or maybe a Cal Davis, etc..

I wouldn’t say all in FBS can host a P5. When’s the last time a major came to Kent State or Bowling Green? Who’s lining up to go to ULM? Some schools can pull a name or two, but the getting is definitely not as good as it once was, if ever.

Bowling Green has Iowa State in 2027.

Don't see a P5 on ULM or Kent's home schedule. But the simple fact is they could bring in a P5 program which is itself an incentive. I'm sure they've done it in the past.
01-21-2021 06:57 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #108
RE: [split] BYU/CFP/playoff split discussion
(01-21-2021 06:57 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(01-21-2021 05:58 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-20-2021 09:51 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(01-18-2021 10:33 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(01-18-2021 10:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  IMO, the lesson of FCS is that playoffs don't matter to public appeal much. FCS has this elaborate inclusive playoff system where everyone has a "win on the field path" to the title, and yet the overwhelming body of sports fans could care less. It's the same as it ever was.

Meanwhile, big time college football, for all its perceived flaws, is as well-paid as ever.
There is a very very big flaw in your argument- the initial draw is so absurdly different.

I would argue that the lack of appeal for FCS is that it's a bunch of really small fanbase schools that everyone goes in realizing is a classification down- not the postseason model.

FCS is an automatic excuse for alumni to tune out. Especially the Wofford type programs that will never be FBS.

FBS is an automatic excuse to care because everyone can host a P5, get in the Top 25 and win a bowl game. All of which are big deals to an average G5 fanbase.

You have big FCS schools who just don’t have a student enrollment profile that gives a flip about football. I wouldn’t say it’s only level or size. You have some state flagships who do quite well and draw. We just don’t know what a leap forward would look like to a Delaware, Montana, NDSU, or maybe a Cal Davis, etc..

I wouldn’t say all in FBS can host a P5. When’s the last time a major came to Kent State or Bowling Green? Who’s lining up to go to ULM? Some schools can pull a name or two, but the getting is definitely not as good as it once was, if ever.

Bowling Green has Iowa State in 2027.

Don't see a P5 on ULM or Kent's home schedule. But the simple fact is they could bring in a P5 program which is itself an incentive. I'm sure they've done it in the past.

Ok, I clicked through wikipedia. Kent STate hosted Minnesota in 2006. (Also UConn in 2003, when UConn was an I-A Independent transitioning up)
01-21-2021 07:51 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #109
RE: [split] BYU/CFP/playoff split discussion
Nothing simple about scheduling majors today versus 15 years ago during an early iteration of the BCS and before conference networks and the era of premium channels. Sure, some non-majors can swing it, but there has to be something to frequency. Like, if I went to Kent State 8 years ago, what do I care that we landed Minnesota some years earlier? That’s not my world! The best a lot of these non-major’s can hope for is landing on the nearest P5 major so some good can be done with reach and recognition. Even that feels like a known racket these days.

Good for BG if they can keep that Iowa State game, though.
(This post was last modified: 01-22-2021 06:51 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
01-22-2021 06:49 AM
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