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[split] BYU/CFP/playoff split discussion
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(01-08-2021 11:01 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 10:56 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 10:50 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 10:43 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 09:25 PM)Wedge Wrote:  I think we can illustrate the BYU vs. Utah situation by making a state of Utah analogy to the state of Indiana.

BYU as a football independent can think of themselves as the Notre Dame of the west while the Utes, in this analogy, are the Indiana Hoosiers. That's an analogy that satisfies BYU.

If BYU was in a G5 conference, in their eyes, it would be more like they're Ball State while the Utes are the Hoosiers. That's the kind of comparison they are avoiding by being a football indy.

I think this hits it pretty close. The question I have is does BYU truly believe that their 12-0 in any given year is as good as or better than Notre Dame’s? That a committee would sniff an undefeated BYU any year?

Because, I suspect the committee sees them no differently, and maybe less than an undefeated AAC or MWC school. Does BYU have any self awareness?

They wouldn't treat the schedule 2020 BYU ended up playing with any favorable view but the schedule they were set to play before COVID probably gets that call.

Utah, Mich St, AZ State, Minnesota, Missouri, and Stanford from the P5. Houston, Boise, NIU, SDSU, and USU from the G5 and one FCS team. Depending on who they'd be up against that SOS would have had a shot if they ran the table.

In 2021 they play Arizona, Utah, ASU, Baylor, Wazzu, UVA, and USC. That's one game shy of a P5 league slate in the ACC or SEC. From there they also play Boise who's usually on that level, USU, USF, Ga Southern, and one FCS team. Depending on if any of the other G5's are good in a given year and who they are up against that schedule would likely get a P5 treatment.

2022?
P5 teams Baylor, Oregon, Arkansas, Stanford already scheduled with two openings still on the schedule. They also have Boise, Liberty, Wyoming, USU, and an FCS team.

By playing 4-7 P5's and Boise plus several notable G5's their SOS will likely be close enough to challenge for a spot if they run the table.

Their SOS will be wildly different than many AAC teams most years so I do think the playoff committee will view them differently.

Exactly!

Being independent allows them to put together a comparable P5 schedule without being in a P5 league.

While G5 league membership would give them better guaranteed access to a NY6 bowl, I believe they are putting themselves in contention with the schedules they are playing if they can go 10-2 or higher.

Contention for a 4 team playoff? That's likely needing to be unbeaten or one close loss.

Playoff...that would require undefeated season with a lot of luck

NY6 should be obtainable though with a top 10 ranking
01-08-2021 11:15 AM
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Merrick Online
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Post: #22
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(01-08-2021 11:15 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 11:01 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 10:56 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 10:50 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 10:43 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I think this hits it pretty close. The question I have is does BYU truly believe that their 12-0 in any given year is as good as or better than Notre Dame’s? That a committee would sniff an undefeated BYU any year?

Because, I suspect the committee sees them no differently, and maybe less than an undefeated AAC or MWC school. Does BYU have any self awareness?

They wouldn't treat the schedule 2020 BYU ended up playing with any favorable view but the schedule they were set to play before COVID probably gets that call.

Utah, Mich St, AZ State, Minnesota, Missouri, and Stanford from the P5. Houston, Boise, NIU, SDSU, and USU from the G5 and one FCS team. Depending on who they'd be up against that SOS would have had a shot if they ran the table.

In 2021 they play Arizona, Utah, ASU, Baylor, Wazzu, UVA, and USC. That's one game shy of a P5 league slate in the ACC or SEC. From there they also play Boise who's usually on that level, USU, USF, Ga Southern, and one FCS team. Depending on if any of the other G5's are good in a given year and who they are up against that schedule would likely get a P5 treatment.

2022?
P5 teams Baylor, Oregon, Arkansas, Stanford already scheduled with two openings still on the schedule. They also have Boise, Liberty, Wyoming, USU, and an FCS team.

By playing 4-7 P5's and Boise plus several notable G5's their SOS will likely be close enough to challenge for a spot if they run the table.

Their SOS will be wildly different than many AAC teams most years so I do think the playoff committee will view them differently.

Exactly!

Being independent allows them to put together a comparable P5 schedule without being in a P5 league.

While G5 league membership would give them better guaranteed access to a NY6 bowl, I believe they are putting themselves in contention with the schedules they are playing if they can go 10-2 or higher.

Contention for a 4 team playoff? That's likely needing to be unbeaten or one close loss.

Playoff...that would require undefeated season with a lot of luck

NY6 should be obtainable though with a top 10 ranking

The way the rules are currently written...

MUST PARTICIPATE IN A CONFERENCE!

ND was able to get in because they participate in the ACC for football.

Period!
01-08-2021 11:39 AM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(01-08-2021 11:39 AM)Merrick Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 11:15 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 11:01 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 10:56 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 10:50 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  They wouldn't treat the schedule 2020 BYU ended up playing with any favorable view but the schedule they were set to play before COVID probably gets that call.

Utah, Mich St, AZ State, Minnesota, Missouri, and Stanford from the P5. Houston, Boise, NIU, SDSU, and USU from the G5 and one FCS team. Depending on who they'd be up against that SOS would have had a shot if they ran the table.

In 2021 they play Arizona, Utah, ASU, Baylor, Wazzu, UVA, and USC. That's one game shy of a P5 league slate in the ACC or SEC. From there they also play Boise who's usually on that level, USU, USF, Ga Southern, and one FCS team. Depending on if any of the other G5's are good in a given year and who they are up against that schedule would likely get a P5 treatment.

2022?
P5 teams Baylor, Oregon, Arkansas, Stanford already scheduled with two openings still on the schedule. They also have Boise, Liberty, Wyoming, USU, and an FCS team.

By playing 4-7 P5's and Boise plus several notable G5's their SOS will likely be close enough to challenge for a spot if they run the table.

Their SOS will be wildly different than many AAC teams most years so I do think the playoff committee will view them differently.

Exactly!

Being independent allows them to put together a comparable P5 schedule without being in a P5 league.

While G5 league membership would give them better guaranteed access to a NY6 bowl, I believe they are putting themselves in contention with the schedules they are playing if they can go 10-2 or higher.

Contention for a 4 team playoff? That's likely needing to be unbeaten or one close loss.

Playoff...that would require undefeated season with a lot of luck

NY6 should be obtainable though with a top 10 ranking

The way the rules are currently written...

MUST PARTICIPATE IN A CONFERENCE!

ND was able to get in because they participate in the ACC for football.

Period!

Except they already got in without one before...
01-08-2021 11:59 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(01-08-2021 11:39 AM)Merrick Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 11:15 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 11:01 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 10:56 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 10:50 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  They wouldn't treat the schedule 2020 BYU ended up playing with any favorable view but the schedule they were set to play before COVID probably gets that call.

Utah, Mich St, AZ State, Minnesota, Missouri, and Stanford from the P5. Houston, Boise, NIU, SDSU, and USU from the G5 and one FCS team. Depending on who they'd be up against that SOS would have had a shot if they ran the table.

In 2021 they play Arizona, Utah, ASU, Baylor, Wazzu, UVA, and USC. That's one game shy of a P5 league slate in the ACC or SEC. From there they also play Boise who's usually on that level, USU, USF, Ga Southern, and one FCS team. Depending on if any of the other G5's are good in a given year and who they are up against that schedule would likely get a P5 treatment.

2022?
P5 teams Baylor, Oregon, Arkansas, Stanford already scheduled with two openings still on the schedule. They also have Boise, Liberty, Wyoming, USU, and an FCS team.

By playing 4-7 P5's and Boise plus several notable G5's their SOS will likely be close enough to challenge for a spot if they run the table.

Their SOS will be wildly different than many AAC teams most years so I do think the playoff committee will view them differently.

Exactly!

Being independent allows them to put together a comparable P5 schedule without being in a P5 league.

While G5 league membership would give them better guaranteed access to a NY6 bowl, I believe they are putting themselves in contention with the schedules they are playing if they can go 10-2 or higher.

Contention for a 4 team playoff? That's likely needing to be unbeaten or one close loss.

Playoff...that would require undefeated season with a lot of luck

NY6 should be obtainable though with a top 10 ranking

The way the rules are currently written...

MUST PARTICIPATE IN A CONFERENCE!

ND was able to get in because they participate in the ACC for football.

Period!

If BYU had beaten Coastal and finished undefeated, they would most likely finished in the top 10 and gotten a NY6 bowl based on ranking. NY6 uses the CFP poll rankings to determine bowl slots, after contractual bowls have been filled.

This past cycle there were 5 at large spots available between the Peach, Fiesta, and Cotton

This upcoming cycle, there will be 3 at large spots available between the Fiesta and the Cotton

In the 3rd cycle there will be 1 at large spot available in the Cotton.

Depending on the year, a top 5 to 10 ranking should get BYU an NY6 bowl
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2021 12:01 PM by solohawks.)
01-08-2021 12:00 PM
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Merrick Online
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Post: #25
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(01-08-2021 12:00 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 11:39 AM)Merrick Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 11:15 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 11:01 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 10:56 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Exactly!

Being independent allows them to put together a comparable P5 schedule without being in a P5 league.

While G5 league membership would give them better guaranteed access to a NY6 bowl, I believe they are putting themselves in contention with the schedules they are playing if they can go 10-2 or higher.

Contention for a 4 team playoff? That's likely needing to be unbeaten or one close loss.

Playoff...that would require undefeated season with a lot of luck

NY6 should be obtainable though with a top 10 ranking

The way the rules are currently written...

MUST PARTICIPATE IN A CONFERENCE!

ND was able to get in because they participate in the ACC for football.

Period!

If BYU had beaten Coastal and finished undefeated, they would most likely finished in the top 10 and gotten a NY6 bowl based on ranking. NY6 uses the CFP poll rankings to determine bowl slots, after contractual bowls have been filled.

This past cycle there were 5 at large spots available between the Peach, Fiesta, and Cotton

This upcoming cycle, there will be 3 at large spots available between the Fiesta and the Cotton

In the 3rd cycle there will be 1 at large spot available in the Cotton.

Depending on the year, a top 5 to 10 ranking should get BYU an NY6 bowl

Okay, let me rephrase...

A high ranking may get you into a NY-bowl....but it will NOT get you into the playoffs. You must be in a conference and be selected to participate.

05-stirthepot
01-08-2021 12:02 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(01-08-2021 12:02 PM)Merrick Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 12:00 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 11:39 AM)Merrick Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 11:15 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 11:01 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Contention for a 4 team playoff? That's likely needing to be unbeaten or one close loss.

Playoff...that would require undefeated season with a lot of luck

NY6 should be obtainable though with a top 10 ranking

The way the rules are currently written...

MUST PARTICIPATE IN A CONFERENCE!

ND was able to get in because they participate in the ACC for football.

Period!

If BYU had beaten Coastal and finished undefeated, they would most likely finished in the top 10 and gotten a NY6 bowl based on ranking. NY6 uses the CFP poll rankings to determine bowl slots, after contractual bowls have been filled.

This past cycle there were 5 at large spots available between the Peach, Fiesta, and Cotton

This upcoming cycle, there will be 3 at large spots available between the Fiesta and the Cotton

In the 3rd cycle there will be 1 at large spot available in the Cotton.

Depending on the year, a top 5 to 10 ranking should get BYU an NY6 bowl

Okay, let me rephrase...

A high ranking may get you into a NY-bowl....but it will NOT get you into the playoffs. You must be in a conference and be selected to participate.

05-stirthepot

By rule, No

In practice, Yes unless you are Notre Dame and can put together a P5 level schedule and go undefeated
01-08-2021 12:06 PM
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johnbragg Online
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Post: #27
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(01-08-2021 12:02 PM)Merrick Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 12:00 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 11:39 AM)Merrick Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 11:15 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 11:01 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  Contention for a 4 team playoff? That's likely needing to be unbeaten or one close loss.

Playoff...that would require undefeated season with a lot of luck

NY6 should be obtainable though with a top 10 ranking

The way the rules are currently written...

MUST PARTICIPATE IN A CONFERENCE!

ND was able to get in because they participate in the ACC for football.

Period!

If BYU had beaten Coastal and finished undefeated, they would most likely finished in the top 10 and gotten a NY6 bowl based on ranking. NY6 uses the CFP poll rankings to determine bowl slots, after contractual bowls have been filled.

This past cycle there were 5 at large spots available between the Peach, Fiesta, and Cotton

This upcoming cycle, there will be 3 at large spots available between the Fiesta and the Cotton

In the 3rd cycle there will be 1 at large spot available in the Cotton.

Depending on the year, a top 5 to 10 ranking should get BYU an NY6 bowl

Okay, let me rephrase...

A high ranking may get you into a NY-bowl....but it will NOT get you into the playoffs. You must be in a conference and be selected to participate.

05-stirthepot

Not sure exactly what you're saying here.

There is no rule anywhere in the CFP agreement that you need to be in an FBS conference to make the playoff or the NY6. Playoff is straight top-4.

Now, if you're saying that the P5-dominated committee would never rank a G5 or non-Notre Dame independent in the top 4? I agree.

But joining a non-P5 conference doesn't change that.
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2021 01:02 PM by johnbragg.)
01-08-2021 01:01 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
I get the feeling now that Notre Dame kinda won the regular season portion of the ACC and having this associate membership can be used to withstand an undefeated BYU with or without that number of P5 schools on the schedule. Notre Dame will always have more major games, and, heck, the bias toward them is simply there to include them.

And the bias against BYU will also be there. If they play and beat seven majors, they won’t be the right ones. Or it won’t be enough. Or the non-majors will be putrid trash we’ll be made to believe can’t be overlooked.

Or, simply put...the committee will simply overlook or characterize them any way they please. Because we know for certain now that’s how they roll.

At best, imo, all BYU can hope for is that their 12-0 is considered greater than the AAC or MWC’s 13-0 teams. Emotionally, though, I don’t want to see any of that play out now. Head to head against the Irish or the best G5 school. But, I am intrigued by that hypothetical, because they are attempting to emulate the Notre Dame model. Just have no heart watching a committee shift the goalposts again. And I wonder if BYU senses that, too.
01-08-2021 01:22 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(01-08-2021 01:22 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  And the bias against BYU will also be there. If they play and beat seven majors, they won’t be the right ones. Or it won’t be enough. Or the non-majors will be putrid trash we’ll be made to believe can’t be overlooked.

I don't agree. If BYU is 12-0 including 7 wins over P5 teams, they'll be in. They just have to hit it in the right season, with a roster that has enough depth to win all of those tough games. Having a roster strong enough to win every one of those games, through injuries and whatever other problems a team has during a long season, is a helluva lot different from having one "big name" team on the schedule and getting fired up for that one big game. IMO, if BYU does run the table against a schedule that challenging, then even this committee would recognize that.
01-08-2021 01:42 PM
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CoastalJuan Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(01-08-2021 01:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 01:22 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  And the bias against BYU will also be there. If they play and beat seven majors, they won’t be the right ones. Or it won’t be enough. Or the non-majors will be putrid trash we’ll be made to believe can’t be overlooked.

I don't agree. If BYU is 12-0 including 7 wins over P5 teams, they'll be in. They just have to hit it in the right season, with a roster that has enough depth to win all of those tough games. Having a roster strong enough to win every one of those games, through injuries and whatever other problems a team has during a long season, is a helluva lot different from having one "big name" team on the schedule and getting fired up for that one big game. IMO, if BYU does run the table against a schedule that challenging, then even this committee would recognize that.

I could see them getting the TCU/Baylor treatment. #2 or #3 going into conference title game week, then dropped to 5-6ish after those games are played.

Fast forward a few years. In that situation, one could argue that they'd still be in line for a playoff spot in a 5-1-2 model as an independent. It can also be argued, however, that they'd be able to get in, even with 1 loss, with an AAC title.
01-08-2021 02:20 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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Post: #31
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
This past season as a member of the ACC, Notre Dame played three top-25 teams: Clemson (twice, #1 and #3) and UNC (#19). It also played #1 Alabama in the CFP, but I will not count that for the sake of the discussion. Last year, as an independent, ND played #3 Georgia, #18 Virginia, #19 Michigan and #23 Navy. In 2018, when it last went undefeated, ND played #14 Michigan, #7 Stanford, #24 Virginia Tech and #12 Syracuse. Finally, in 2017, ND played #15 Georgia, #11 USC, #14 NC State, #7 Miami and #21 Stanford.

I get why many remain frustrated and agitated why Notre Dame appears to get special considerations, but - as an independent - there clearly is substantial and consistent annual opportunities for Notre Dame to play many top-25 teams. In fact, I would argue that there is greater opportunity to have a more difficult schedule playing its independent schedule (between travel, style of play and quality of play) than it would to be playing an annual ACC schedule - and those are all known challenges that the school and program willingly accept in order to not just compete for a CFP position, but also maintain their brand and identity as well.

Similarly, as it relates to BYU, they played two top-25 teams this year (Coastal Carolina and Boise State). Last year, they were able to play four (#14 Utah, #24 USC, #22 Washington and #14 Boise State). In 2018, they played three (#6 Wisconsin, #11 Washington and #18 Utah). If BYU had run the table, I do not think they would have made the playoff, but they would have definitely been under consideration for the NY6 slot (tough to argue between them and Cincinnati, although I think Cincinnati would have undoubtedly made it as the rep). Neither BYU nor ND are prevented from playing enough top-25 programs in order to run the table and be under strong consideration for a CFP spot. Both can safely and securely maintain independence, and compete for the CFP, until the P5/TV networks choose to move towards an automatic conference berth for the playoff (which, for many reasons, I do not foresee happening anytime soon).
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2021 02:27 PM by GoldenWarrior11.)
01-08-2021 02:24 PM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(01-08-2021 02:20 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 01:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 01:22 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  And the bias against BYU will also be there. If they play and beat seven majors, they won’t be the right ones. Or it won’t be enough. Or the non-majors will be putrid trash we’ll be made to believe can’t be overlooked.

I don't agree. If BYU is 12-0 including 7 wins over P5 teams, they'll be in. They just have to hit it in the right season, with a roster that has enough depth to win all of those tough games. Having a roster strong enough to win every one of those games, through injuries and whatever other problems a team has during a long season, is a helluva lot different from having one "big name" team on the schedule and getting fired up for that one big game. IMO, if BYU does run the table against a schedule that challenging, then even this committee would recognize that.

I could see them getting the TCU/Baylor treatment. #2 or #3 going into conference title game week, then dropped to 5-6ish after those games are played.

Fast forward a few years. In that situation, one could argue that they'd still be in line for a playoff spot in a 5-1-2 model as an independent. It can also be argued, however, that they'd be able to get in, even with 1 loss, with an AAC title.

The 2014 comparison for BYU going unbeaten is FSU who looked shaky winning close game after close game but ultimately played their way in before Oregon destroyed them.

Unbeaten BYU with a similar number of P5 games likely gets in unless you have 4 unbeatens out of the P5 champs or unbeaten ND.
01-08-2021 02:32 PM
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CoastalJuan Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(01-08-2021 02:24 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  This past season as a member of the ACC, Notre Dame played three top-25 teams: Clemson (twice, #1 and #3) and UNC (#19). It also played #1 Alabama in the CFP, but I will not count that for the sake of the discussion. Last year, as an independent, ND played #3 Georgia, #18 Virginia, #19 Michigan and #23 Navy. In 2018, when it last went undefeated, ND played #14 Michigan, #7 Stanford, #24 Virginia Tech and #12 Syracuse. Finally, in 2017, ND played #15 Georgia, #11 USC, #14 NC State, #7 Miami and #21 Stanford.

I get why many remain frustrated and agitated why Notre Dame appears to get special considerations, but - as an independent - there clearly is substantial and consistent annual opportunities for Notre Dame to play many top-25 teams. In fact, I would argue that there is greater opportunity to have a more difficult schedule playing its independent schedule (between travel, style of play and quality of play) than it would to be playing an annual ACC schedule - and those are all known challenges that the school and program willingly accept in order to not just compete for a CFP position, but also maintain their brand and identity as well.

Similarly, as it relates to BYU, they played two top-25 teams this year (Coastal Carolina and Boise State). Last year, they were able to play four (#14 Utah, #24 USC, #22 Washington and #14 Boise State). In 2018, they played three (#6 Wisconsin, #11 Washington and #18 Utah). If BYU had run the table, I do not think they would have made the playoff, but they would have definitely been under consideration for the NY6 slot (tough to argue between them and Cincinnati, although I think Cincinnati would have undoubtedly made it as the rep). Neither BYU nor ND are prevented from playing enough top-25 programs in order to run the table and be under strong consideration for a CFP spot. Both can safely and securely maintain independence, and compete for the CFP, until the P5/TV networks choose to move towards an automatic conference berth for the playoff (which, for many reasons, I do not foresee happening anytime soon).

Not really an apples to apples comparison. You listed rankings when those teams played BYU and ND. With BYU being a "G5 independent" and ND being a "P5 independent", the rankings of the opponents will change differently. Go through and look at the final rankings of the teams ND played those years vs the teams BYU played, particularly the teams BYU beat.
01-08-2021 03:11 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(01-08-2021 02:20 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 01:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 01:22 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  And the bias against BYU will also be there. If they play and beat seven majors, they won’t be the right ones. Or it won’t be enough. Or the non-majors will be putrid trash we’ll be made to believe can’t be overlooked.

I don't agree. If BYU is 12-0 including 7 wins over P5 teams, they'll be in. They just have to hit it in the right season, with a roster that has enough depth to win all of those tough games. Having a roster strong enough to win every one of those games, through injuries and whatever other problems a team has during a long season, is a helluva lot different from having one "big name" team on the schedule and getting fired up for that one big game. IMO, if BYU does run the table against a schedule that challenging, then even this committee would recognize that.

I could see them getting the TCU/Baylor treatment. #2 or #3 going into conference title game week, then dropped to 5-6ish after those games are played.

Fast forward a few years. In that situation, one could argue that they'd still be in line for a playoff spot in a 5-1-2 model as an independent. It can also be argued, however, that they'd be able to get in, even with 1 loss, with an AAC title.

We need to call this what it is: an at-large bid that is reserved for a champion of a G5 conference. There are NO guarantees in this situation because it is not actually awarding a G5 champ a bid for beating another G5 champ.

Like I mentioned earlier, Cincy would have been jumped by Coastal had they lost to Tulsa in the CCG. Even if Coastal had a loss and won their title game, Cincy would not have received a bid because they lost their CCG.

It's not actually taking the highest ranked G5 team, but the highest ranked G5 team that so happens to win their CCG.
01-08-2021 03:21 PM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(01-08-2021 03:21 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 02:20 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 01:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 01:22 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  And the bias against BYU will also be there. If they play and beat seven majors, they won’t be the right ones. Or it won’t be enough. Or the non-majors will be putrid trash we’ll be made to believe can’t be overlooked.

I don't agree. If BYU is 12-0 including 7 wins over P5 teams, they'll be in. They just have to hit it in the right season, with a roster that has enough depth to win all of those tough games. Having a roster strong enough to win every one of those games, through injuries and whatever other problems a team has during a long season, is a helluva lot different from having one "big name" team on the schedule and getting fired up for that one big game. IMO, if BYU does run the table against a schedule that challenging, then even this committee would recognize that.

I could see them getting the TCU/Baylor treatment. #2 or #3 going into conference title game week, then dropped to 5-6ish after those games are played.

Fast forward a few years. In that situation, one could argue that they'd still be in line for a playoff spot in a 5-1-2 model as an independent. It can also be argued, however, that they'd be able to get in, even with 1 loss, with an AAC title.

We need to call this what it is: an at-large bid that is reserved for a champion of a G5 conference. There are NO guarantees in this situation because it is not actually awarding a G5 champ a bid for beating another G5 champ.

Like I mentioned earlier, Cincy would have been jumped by Coastal had they lost to Tulsa in the CCG. Even if Coastal had a loss and won their title game, Cincy would not have received a bid because they lost their CCG.

It's not actually taking the highest ranked G5 team, but the highest ranked G5 team that so happens to win their CCG.

It would ultimately depend on how a yet to be written rule was specifically written.

Is it highest ranked or highest ranked champion? It will be interesting to see what specific language is written if this passes.
01-08-2021 03:43 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(01-08-2021 03:43 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 03:21 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 02:20 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 01:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 01:22 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  And the bias against BYU will also be there. If they play and beat seven majors, they won’t be the right ones. Or it won’t be enough. Or the non-majors will be putrid trash we’ll be made to believe can’t be overlooked.

I don't agree. If BYU is 12-0 including 7 wins over P5 teams, they'll be in. They just have to hit it in the right season, with a roster that has enough depth to win all of those tough games. Having a roster strong enough to win every one of those games, through injuries and whatever other problems a team has during a long season, is a helluva lot different from having one "big name" team on the schedule and getting fired up for that one big game. IMO, if BYU does run the table against a schedule that challenging, then even this committee would recognize that.

I could see them getting the TCU/Baylor treatment. #2 or #3 going into conference title game week, then dropped to 5-6ish after those games are played.

Fast forward a few years. In that situation, one could argue that they'd still be in line for a playoff spot in a 5-1-2 model as an independent. It can also be argued, however, that they'd be able to get in, even with 1 loss, with an AAC title.

We need to call this what it is: an at-large bid that is reserved for a champion of a G5 conference. There are NO guarantees in this situation because it is not actually awarding a G5 champ a bid for beating another G5 champ.

Like I mentioned earlier, Cincy would have been jumped by Coastal had they lost to Tulsa in the CCG. Even if Coastal had a loss and won their title game, Cincy would not have received a bid because they lost their CCG.

It's not actually taking the highest ranked G5 team, but the highest ranked G5 team that so happens to win their CCG.

It would ultimately depend on how a yet to be written rule was specifically written.

Is it highest ranked or highest ranked champion? It will be interesting to see what specific language is written if this passes.

If your doing a 5-1-2, then conference champions for the G5 slot is the way to go. The point is for the G5 to have a path to win their way in because their specific situation precludes them ever having sufficient SOS to be considered under the current Selection Committee system. I dont know how you make a case for a G5 auto-bid if the school isnt even a conference champ. Its already bad enough that its a beauty contest for the 5 G5 champs that win their way in to being considered. To open it up even further makes the slot pointless.
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2021 09:38 PM by Attackcoog.)
01-08-2021 03:51 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(01-08-2021 03:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 03:43 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 03:21 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 02:20 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 01:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  I don't agree. If BYU is 12-0 including 7 wins over P5 teams, they'll be in. They just have to hit it in the right season, with a roster that has enough depth to win all of those tough games. Having a roster strong enough to win every one of those games, through injuries and whatever other problems a team has during a long season, is a helluva lot different from having one "big name" team on the schedule and getting fired up for that one big game. IMO, if BYU does run the table against a schedule that challenging, then even this committee would recognize that.

I could see them getting the TCU/Baylor treatment. #2 or #3 going into conference title game week, then dropped to 5-6ish after those games are played.

Fast forward a few years. In that situation, one could argue that they'd still be in line for a playoff spot in a 5-1-2 model as an independent. It can also be argued, however, that they'd be able to get in, even with 1 loss, with an AAC title.

We need to call this what it is: an at-large bid that is reserved for a champion of a G5 conference. There are NO guarantees in this situation because it is not actually awarding a G5 champ a bid for beating another G5 champ.

Like I mentioned earlier, Cincy would have been jumped by Coastal had they lost to Tulsa in the CCG. Even if Coastal had a loss and won their title game, Cincy would not have received a bid because they lost their CCG.

It's not actually taking the highest ranked G5 team, but the highest ranked G5 team that so happens to win their CCG.

It would ultimately depend on how a yet to be written rule was specifically written.

Is it highest ranked or highest ranked champion? It will be interesting to see what specific language is written if this passes.

If your doing a 5-12, then conference champions for the G5 slot is the way to go. The point is for the G5 to have a path to win their way in because their specific situation precludes them ever having sufficient SOS to be considered under the current Selection Committee system. I dont know how you make a case for a G5 auto-bid if the school isnt even a conference champ. Its already bad enough that its a beauty contest for the 5 G5 champs that win their way in to being considered. To open it up even further makes the slot pointless.

Depends on if those writing it want that path to potentially fit Army, BYU, UMass, Liberty, etc... as a way to make sure that certain legal challenges are avoided.
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2021 03:59 PM by 1845 Bear.)
01-08-2021 03:59 PM
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CoastalJuan Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Boise St looking to move on from MWC
(01-08-2021 03:21 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 02:20 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 01:42 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 01:22 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  And the bias against BYU will also be there. If they play and beat seven majors, they won’t be the right ones. Or it won’t be enough. Or the non-majors will be putrid trash we’ll be made to believe can’t be overlooked.

I don't agree. If BYU is 12-0 including 7 wins over P5 teams, they'll be in. They just have to hit it in the right season, with a roster that has enough depth to win all of those tough games. Having a roster strong enough to win every one of those games, through injuries and whatever other problems a team has during a long season, is a helluva lot different from having one "big name" team on the schedule and getting fired up for that one big game. IMO, if BYU does run the table against a schedule that challenging, then even this committee would recognize that.

I could see them getting the TCU/Baylor treatment. #2 or #3 going into conference title game week, then dropped to 5-6ish after those games are played.

Fast forward a few years. In that situation, one could argue that they'd still be in line for a playoff spot in a 5-1-2 model as an independent. It can also be argued, however, that they'd be able to get in, even with 1 loss, with an AAC title.

We need to call this what it is: an at-large bid that is reserved for a champion of a G5 conference. There are NO guarantees in this situation because it is not actually awarding a G5 champ a bid for beating another G5 champ.

Like I mentioned earlier, Cincy would have been jumped by Coastal had they lost to Tulsa in the CCG. Even if Coastal had a loss and won their title game, Cincy would not have received a bid because they lost their CCG.

It's not actually taking the highest ranked G5 team, but the highest ranked G5 team that so happens to win their CCG.

That's what it's currently called. NY6 bid is the highest rated G5 champion. We just refer to it here as "G5 champ".
01-08-2021 04:18 PM
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Post: #39
RE: [split] BYU/CFP/playoff split discussion
(01-07-2021 09:25 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 09:05 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  BYU won’t join a G5 conference for one reason only: the University of Utah.

BYU won’t have on the schedule the likes of Temple, Tulsa, East Carolina, SMU, the Florida twins, etc while Utah plays a Pac-12 schedule. Their ego won’t allow it. The best thing they can do is play a semi national schedule with P5, MWC schools and some independents. Their schedule in 2020 (before the COVID-19 cancellations) looked great.

And please save the “but the Pac-12 sucks”. That’s not the point. The point is the Pac-12 is part of the cartel. BYU and whatever G5 conference posters on this board want BYU to be part of is outside looking in. They won’t admit Utah has already passed them by so independence is the only option until a P5 comes calling.

I think we can illustrate the BYU vs. Utah situation by making a state of Utah analogy to the state of Indiana.

BYU as a football independent can think of themselves as the Notre Dame of the west while the Utes, in this analogy, are the Indiana Hoosiers. That's an analogy that satisfies BYU.

If BYU was in a G5 conference, in their eyes, it would be more like they're Ball State while the Utes are the Hoosiers. That's the kind of comparison they are avoiding by being a football indy.

But they are looking more and more like Ball St. vs. IU. They had an easy schedule this year so they did well, but at 7-5 they are a nobody.
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2021 09:39 PM by bullet.)
01-08-2021 09:39 PM
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Post: #40
RE: [split] BYU/CFP/playoff split discussion
(01-08-2021 03:59 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 03:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 03:43 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 03:21 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(01-08-2021 02:20 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  I could see them getting the TCU/Baylor treatment. #2 or #3 going into conference title game week, then dropped to 5-6ish after those games are played.

Fast forward a few years. In that situation, one could argue that they'd still be in line for a playoff spot in a 5-1-2 model as an independent. It can also be argued, however, that they'd be able to get in, even with 1 loss, with an AAC title.

We need to call this what it is: an at-large bid that is reserved for a champion of a G5 conference. There are NO guarantees in this situation because it is not actually awarding a G5 champ a bid for beating another G5 champ.

Like I mentioned earlier, Cincy would have been jumped by Coastal had they lost to Tulsa in the CCG. Even if Coastal had a loss and won their title game, Cincy would not have received a bid because they lost their CCG.

It's not actually taking the highest ranked G5 team, but the highest ranked G5 team that so happens to win their CCG.

It would ultimately depend on how a yet to be written rule was specifically written.

Is it highest ranked or highest ranked champion? It will be interesting to see what specific language is written if this passes.

If your doing a 5-12, then conference champions for the G5 slot is the way to go. The point is for the G5 to have a path to win their way in because their specific situation precludes them ever having sufficient SOS to be considered under the current Selection Committee system. I dont know how you make a case for a G5 auto-bid if the school isnt even a conference champ. Its already bad enough that its a beauty contest for the 5 G5 champs that win their way in to being considered. To open it up even further makes the slot pointless.

Depends on if those writing it want that path to potentially fit Army, BYU, UMass, Liberty, etc... as a way to make sure that certain legal challenges are avoided.

That doesnt avoid the court challenge---other than maybe changing who sues. The only way to do it would be to say if the indy is ahead of ANY champ they get in using that conferences autobid...otherwise you're open to a suit. My fix would be to say that if the highest ranking indy is ranked higher than any P5 champ---they automatically get one of the two wildcard slots. Doing that preserves the autobid path for every FBS conference....which is kind of the point of AQ slots.
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2021 09:45 PM by Attackcoog.)
01-08-2021 09:43 PM
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