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David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
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panite Offline
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Post: #281
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-14-2021 07:58 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 05:33 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 05:28 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 05:24 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 01:08 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  University of San Diego is an FCS school

Ok, True. Doesn't really change the math though. 1 FCS-non-scholarship competitor instead of 0 FCS competitors.

Aren't UC-Davis and Cal Poly in FCS?

Yes, you got me there. 03-banghead I'm an NAIA guy, FCS is really off my radar.

But I know Cal Baptist from the old days, and I know they considered football before going D2. And actually, having USD, Davis and Cal Poly in FCS just makes it all the more attractive because there will be close OOC games to schedule. And still, there are far more athletes in California than the existing California teams can accommodate.

Cal Baptist wants to be the Liberty of the West. They need football to do that.

So Cal Baptist wants to be the Liberty of the West?

That’s funny because Liberty wants to be the BYU of the East.

BYU, in turn, wants to be the ND of the West.

So what your saying is everyone wants to be somebody else. 04-jawdrop 04-jawdrop 04-jawdrop 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao 03-lmfao COGS COGS COGS 02-13-banana 02-13-banana 02-13-banana 03-drunk 03-nutkick 03-nutkick 03-nutkick 04-cheers
01-15-2021 11:19 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #282
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-15-2021 08:59 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  
(01-15-2021 07:27 AM)solohawks Wrote:  I think the Southland will be ok and will be able to get back up to a more stable number. If they were afraid of dropping below the minimum, they would have not rushed out the Texas 4 and let them stay for the extra transition year as originally planned.

I hope you are right. I’d hate to think our leaving brought about the demise of a FCS/low mid major conference. I’d rather think our decision prompts a bit of self reflection and steps are taken to address problems.


I think the report that New Orleans looking to add football last year might be that the school might be soon pulling the trigger.

Commerce, Central Oklahoma and some other Lone Star, MIAA and GAC schools might be looking to pull the trigger to go to D1. You have a lot of D2 schools that have more money like the Southland 5 that are leaving to a bunch of Houston Baptist, IWU, Chicago State and Presbyterian. D2 have hundreds of schools that do not belong there since they are way too small and no money to even compete.
01-15-2021 11:50 AM
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dbackjon Online
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Post: #283
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-14-2021 09:46 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 07:10 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 06:27 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  ...

I wonder if Sac State will be retained as an affiliate in baseball. They make the West unbalanced with 7 teams (SUU doesn't sponsor). There is no crossover, so it doesn't much matter except for scheduling -- it's not that uncommon to have unbalanced divisions in baseball with different number of games for each.

...

Unless Hornet baseball gets a BW invite, I don't see why the WAC wouldn't retain us.

Usually when a conference doesn't need affiliates they don't renew their contracts. Why give an affiliate a shot at the WAC auto berth to the CWS?

It's also administratively easier not to deal with affiliates. Men's soccer probably keeps them -- they have six in house, but safety in numbers-- and for Swimming and Diving it's just a conference meet, so doesn't matter. But Baseball is more involved since it's a full schedule. Sac makes them an odd number which means somebody is idle every week.

I think it's 50-50 they renew the contract


It's also bad business to bite the hand that helped keep your auto-bid in a sport when your numbers were struggling.

You never know when you would need another baseball team again.
01-15-2021 12:12 PM
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Realignment Offline
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Post: #284
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-15-2021 12:12 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 09:46 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 07:10 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 06:27 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  ...

I wonder if Sac State will be retained as an affiliate in baseball. They make the West unbalanced with 7 teams (SUU doesn't sponsor). There is no crossover, so it doesn't much matter except for scheduling -- it's not that uncommon to have unbalanced divisions in baseball with different number of games for each.

...

Unless Hornet baseball gets a BW invite, I don't see why the WAC wouldn't retain us.

Usually when a conference doesn't need affiliates they don't renew their contracts. Why give an affiliate a shot at the WAC auto berth to the CWS?

It's also administratively easier not to deal with affiliates. Men's soccer probably keeps them -- they have six in house, but safety in numbers-- and for Swimming and Diving it's just a conference meet, so doesn't matter. But Baseball is more involved since it's a full schedule. Sac makes them an odd number which means somebody is idle every week.

I think it's 50-50 they renew the contract


It's also bad business to bite the hand that helped keep your auto-bid in a sport when your numbers were struggling.

You never know when you would need another baseball team again.

I doubt they would do that. But Sac State could leave voluntarily.
01-15-2021 12:16 PM
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Post: #285
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-15-2021 12:16 PM)Realignment Wrote:  
(01-15-2021 12:12 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 09:46 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 07:10 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 06:27 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  ...

I wonder if Sac State will be retained as an affiliate in baseball. They make the West unbalanced with 7 teams (SUU doesn't sponsor). There is no crossover, so it doesn't much matter except for scheduling -- it's not that uncommon to have unbalanced divisions in baseball with different number of games for each.

...

Unless Hornet baseball gets a BW invite, I don't see why the WAC wouldn't retain us.

Usually when a conference doesn't need affiliates they don't renew their contracts. Why give an affiliate a shot at the WAC auto berth to the CWS?

It's also administratively easier not to deal with affiliates. Men's soccer probably keeps them -- they have six in house, but safety in numbers-- and for Swimming and Diving it's just a conference meet, so doesn't matter. But Baseball is more involved since it's a full schedule. Sac makes them an odd number which means somebody is idle every week.

I think it's 50-50 they renew the contract


It's also bad business to bite the hand that helped keep your auto-bid in a sport when your numbers were struggling.

You never know when you would need another baseball team again.

I doubt they would do that. But Sac State could leave voluntarily.

And go where?
01-15-2021 12:21 PM
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dbackjon Online
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Post: #286
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-15-2021 12:21 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(01-15-2021 12:16 PM)Realignment Wrote:  
(01-15-2021 12:12 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 09:46 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 07:10 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  Unless Hornet baseball gets a BW invite, I don't see why the WAC wouldn't retain us.

Usually when a conference doesn't need affiliates they don't renew their contracts. Why give an affiliate a shot at the WAC auto berth to the CWS?

It's also administratively easier not to deal with affiliates. Men's soccer probably keeps them -- they have six in house, but safety in numbers-- and for Swimming and Diving it's just a conference meet, so doesn't matter. But Baseball is more involved since it's a full schedule. Sac makes them an odd number which means somebody is idle every week.

I think it's 50-50 they renew the contract


It's also bad business to bite the hand that helped keep your auto-bid in a sport when your numbers were struggling.

You never know when you would need another baseball team again.

I doubt they would do that. But Sac State could leave voluntarily.

And go where?

Exactly.
01-15-2021 12:30 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #287
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-14-2021 06:27 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I noticed an error in the WAC press release.

They are saying Division play in all team sports, and baseball, softball, volleyball, men's soccer and women's soccer will be Division only play. Cross play in Basketball

However none of the incoming schools play men's soccer, but 5 affiliates do (SJSU, UNLV, Air Force, HBU, UIW). I suspect they will just keep doing what they are doing now in men's soccer, a single round robin of 11 schools (5 home games, 5 road games).

I wonder if Sac State will be retained as an affiliate in baseball. They make the West unbalanced with 7 teams (SUU doesn't sponsor). There is no crossover, so it doesn't much matter except for scheduling -- it's not that uncommon to have unbalanced divisions in baseball with different number of games for each.

Regarding Sac State, they have been a member since 2006. They won the conference tournament in 2014, 2017 and 2019. They have a good baseball program. I cannot see any reason for Sac State baseball to leave. SUU dropped baseball in 2012 and there is talk of bringing it back once they join the WAC. WAC men’s soccer is completely unaffected by the expansion and should continue as is.
01-15-2021 02:41 PM
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Post: #288
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-15-2021 12:30 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(01-15-2021 12:21 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(01-15-2021 12:16 PM)Realignment Wrote:  
(01-15-2021 12:12 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 09:46 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Usually when a conference doesn't need affiliates they don't renew their contracts. Why give an affiliate a shot at the WAC auto berth to the CWS?

It's also administratively easier not to deal with affiliates. Men's soccer probably keeps them -- they have six in house, but safety in numbers-- and for Swimming and Diving it's just a conference meet, so doesn't matter. But Baseball is more involved since it's a full schedule. Sac makes them an odd number which means somebody is idle every week.

I think it's 50-50 they renew the contract


It's also bad business to bite the hand that helped keep your auto-bid in a sport when your numbers were struggling.

You never know when you would need another baseball team again.

I doubt they would do that. But Sac State could leave voluntarily.

And go where?

Exactly.

This is what happens when you have non-WAC fans and people like David, that just throw crap against the wall. No information, just saying things to say it.

Yes, we know Seattle should join the WCC
Sac St “belongs” in the Big West
The WAC should add this school
The Big East should add Drury
NJIT could join the MEAC
01-15-2021 02:52 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #289
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-14-2021 05:33 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  Yes, you got me there. 03-banghead I'm an NAIA guy, FCS is really off my radar.

But I know Cal Baptist from the old days, and I know they considered football before going D2. And actually, having USD, Davis and Cal Poly in FCS just makes it all the more attractive because there will be close OOC games to schedule. And still, there are far more athletes in California than the existing California teams can accommodate.

Cal Baptist wants to be the Liberty of the West. They need football to do that.

CBU is not interested in football and I have never heard that they desire to be the Liberty of the West. CBU is more like GCU, who also have no interest in football. Seattle indicated yesterday that they have no interest in football. The model for these three schools is Gonzaga. GCU is open about wanting to be like Gonzaga and the other two don’t say much about it.
01-15-2021 03:01 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-14-2021 03:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Dumb move by the Texas schools. The Southland Conference was a better fit for them.

Seattle U. is now the WAC sore thumb.

The President of Seattle University is also the chair of the WAC Board of Directors. He was pleased with the addition of the five schools. Nothing really changes for Seattle. They will be playing the majority of their games in the west, as they have been in the past. With the exception of the first two seasons when Idaho was a member, they have been an outlier from the start. Seattle has been a member of the conference since 2012, longer than any other member other than NMSU.

The city of Seattle is not close to many cities. It would be great for them if they were a member of the WCC, with bus trips to Spokane and Portland, but that is not happening anytime soon. It is a great market to be in and a school the WAC does not want to lose.

In the 2019-2020 basketball season, SFA had a Net Ranking of 77 and a record of 28-3. The conference Net Ranking in 2019-2020 was 30th out of 32 schools. The bottom eight all had Net Rankings of 295 or worst. None of the bottom eight schools are part of the Texas Four. In 2018-2019, the conference had a Net Conference Ranking of 30th out of 32. ACU won the title with a 27-7 record and Net Ranking of 154. SHSU had a NET Ranking of 148 and a record of 21-12. In the 2015-2016 season, SFA went 28-6 with an RPI ranking of 62. The conference RPI ranking was 30th.

The SLC has too many schools that are just not good. It will be different in the WAC for Olympic Sports.
01-15-2021 04:18 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #291
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-15-2021 04:18 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 03:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Dumb move by the Texas schools. The Southland Conference was a better fit for them.

Seattle U. is now the WAC sore thumb.

The President of Seattle University is also the chair of the WAC Board of Directors. He was pleased with the addition of the five schools. Nothing really changes for Seattle. They will be playing the majority of their games in the west, as they have been in the past. With the exception of the first two seasons when Idaho was a member, they have been an outlier from the start. Seattle has been a member of the conference since 2012, longer than any other member other than NMSU.

The city of Seattle is not close to many cities. It would be great for them if they were a member of the WCC, with bus trips to Spokane and Portland, but that is not happening anytime soon. It is a great market to be in and a school the WAC does not want to lose.

In the 2019-2020 basketball season, SFA had a Net Ranking of 77 and a record of 28-3. The conference Net Ranking in 2019-2020 was 30th out of 32 schools. The bottom eight all had Net Rankings of 295 or worst. None of the bottom eight schools are part of the Texas Four. In 2018-2019, the conference had a Net Conference Ranking of 30th out of 32. ACU won the title with a 27-7 record and Net Ranking of 154. SHSU had a NET Ranking of 148 and a record of 21-12. In the 2015-2016 season, SFA went 28-6 with an RPI ranking of 62. The conference RPI ranking was 30th.

The SLC has too many schools that are just not good. It will be different in the WAC for Olympic Sports.

SFA also has compliance issues and forfeited hundreds of games in numerous sports from about 2013-19 and are, I believe, ineligible for the post season until after the end of next year. So good records and NCAA wins mean nothing when yoh get them stripped within a few years.

Then they had a very public name, shame and blame match with former employees instead of being professional about it. Unless they find a way to clear this kind of stuff up, they're a real liability. I feel bad for the second place teams they knocked out who should have made the tourney.
01-15-2021 05:05 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
It is true the bottom 8 of the SLC are atrocious and very low NET, and the smallest budgets in the SLC, plus financial difficulties with the Louisiana schools. This is why the Texas schools left. The remnant of the SLC may be the weakest D-I conference (it has competition for that distinction).
01-15-2021 05:59 PM
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Post: #293
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-15-2021 05:05 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(01-15-2021 04:18 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 03:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Dumb move by the Texas schools. The Southland Conference was a better fit for them.

Seattle U. is now the WAC sore thumb.

The President of Seattle University is also the chair of the WAC Board of Directors. He was pleased with the addition of the five schools. Nothing really changes for Seattle. They will be playing the majority of their games in the west, as they have been in the past. With the exception of the first two seasons when Idaho was a member, they have been an outlier from the start. Seattle has been a member of the conference since 2012, longer than any other member other than NMSU.

The city of Seattle is not close to many cities. It would be great for them if they were a member of the WCC, with bus trips to Spokane and Portland, but that is not happening anytime soon. It is a great market to be in and a school the WAC does not want to lose.

In the 2019-2020 basketball season, SFA had a Net Ranking of 77 and a record of 28-3. The conference Net Ranking in 2019-2020 was 30th out of 32 schools. The bottom eight all had Net Rankings of 295 or worst. None of the bottom eight schools are part of the Texas Four. In 2018-2019, the conference had a Net Conference Ranking of 30th out of 32. ACU won the title with a 27-7 record and Net Ranking of 154. SHSU had a NET Ranking of 148 and a record of 21-12. In the 2015-2016 season, SFA went 28-6 with an RPI ranking of 62. The conference RPI ranking was 30th.

The SLC has too many schools that are just not good. It will be different in the WAC for Olympic Sports.

SFA also has compliance issues and forfeited hundreds of games in numerous sports from about 2013-19 and are, I believe, ineligible for the post season until after the end of next year. So good records and NCAA wins mean nothing when yoh get them stripped within a few years.

Then they had a very public name, shame and blame match with former employees instead of being professional about it. Unless they find a way to clear this kind of stuff up, they're a real liability. I feel bad for the second place teams they knocked out who should have made the tourney.

Yeah I felt second-hand embarrassment for SFA during the whole thing. 4/5 of their conference championships vacated and complete unprofessionalism from their side.

That said, we (SHSU) were 2nd place in the SLC tournament during two of SFA's vacated seasons, in 2014 and in 2015. The thought that "we should have been in the NCAA tournament instead of them" has never crossed my mind, or the fact we were 3-12 against SFA from 2013-2019 when we probably would have won more of those games otherwise. I firmly believe their teams would have been good enough to win even if they didn't play ineligible athletes.

As far as I'm concerned we should have won those games and been right there with them. If I were a player I might be a bit more peeved though.
01-18-2021 04:28 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #294
RE: David St Rejoice, or Guess Who's WAC, WAC Again?
(01-18-2021 04:28 PM)AnthonyE Wrote:  
(01-15-2021 05:05 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(01-15-2021 04:18 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(01-14-2021 03:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Dumb move by the Texas schools. The Southland Conference was a better fit for them.

Seattle U. is now the WAC sore thumb.

The President of Seattle University is also the chair of the WAC Board of Directors. He was pleased with the addition of the five schools. Nothing really changes for Seattle. They will be playing the majority of their games in the west, as they have been in the past. With the exception of the first two seasons when Idaho was a member, they have been an outlier from the start. Seattle has been a member of the conference since 2012, longer than any other member other than NMSU.

The city of Seattle is not close to many cities. It would be great for them if they were a member of the WCC, with bus trips to Spokane and Portland, but that is not happening anytime soon. It is a great market to be in and a school the WAC does not want to lose.

In the 2019-2020 basketball season, SFA had a Net Ranking of 77 and a record of 28-3. The conference Net Ranking in 2019-2020 was 30th out of 32 schools. The bottom eight all had Net Rankings of 295 or worst. None of the bottom eight schools are part of the Texas Four. In 2018-2019, the conference had a Net Conference Ranking of 30th out of 32. ACU won the title with a 27-7 record and Net Ranking of 154. SHSU had a NET Ranking of 148 and a record of 21-12. In the 2015-2016 season, SFA went 28-6 with an RPI ranking of 62. The conference RPI ranking was 30th.

The SLC has too many schools that are just not good. It will be different in the WAC for Olympic Sports.

SFA also has compliance issues and forfeited hundreds of games in numerous sports from about 2013-19 and are, I believe, ineligible for the post season until after the end of next year. So good records and NCAA wins mean nothing when yoh get them stripped within a few years.

Then they had a very public name, shame and blame match with former employees instead of being professional about it. Unless they find a way to clear this kind of stuff up, they're a real liability. I feel bad for the second place teams they knocked out who should have made the tourney.

Yeah I felt second-hand embarrassment for SFA during the whole thing. 4/5 of their conference championships vacated and complete unprofessionalism from their side.

That said, we (SHSU) were 2nd place in the SLC tournament during two of SFA's vacated seasons, in 2014 and in 2015. The thought that "we should have been in the NCAA tournament instead of them" has never crossed my mind, or the fact we were 3-12 against SFA from 2013-2019 when we probably would have won more of those games otherwise. I firmly believe their teams would have been good enough to win even if they didn't play ineligible athletes.

As far as I'm concerned we should have won those games and been right there with them. If I were a player I might be a bit more peeved though.

I'd be pissed if a team beat mine and then had to forfeit the wins. In the short term, that success and tourney appearances etc do result in much better recruiting, donations, publicity. That stuff can't be taken away and they walk away keeping something when they should have had nothing.

I still can't get over 7 years of it! Unreal. Clueless. Or worse?
(This post was last modified: 01-19-2021 03:29 AM by Todor.)
01-19-2021 03:28 AM
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