(01-06-2021 07:59 PM)DPD Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 09:13 AM)Big Red Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 08:52 AM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 08:28 AM)NIUfrankie Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 05:29 PM)dc1 Wrote:  We are NIU with Chicago next door many coaches will believe they can come here and win. We can get a decent coach

You can’t recruit in Chicago, at a high level, unless you grease the right palms.

I've heard that more than once, from people who know the Chicago basketball "market" well. Time to throw a donation at an AAU team.

Or hire Nick Irvin.

I think it would be risky given his lack of experience but would be on board for that.

For sure, I'd love more experience, but I do like that he has at least a year at a D-1 program. Needless to say, the main reason I mentioned him is because many feel the ability to be connected to and recruit CPS and Illinois should be high. I don't think there's a better guy that would realistically be available than Irvin is (Chin Coleman would be the other but he'd be way out of NIUs price range).

While not having head experience at D-1, I'd think the level he coached at for both Morgan Park and Mac Irvin Fire is pretty damn high quality. He's coached NBA players. Hell, he's gotten guys TO the NBA. He has all the credentials, he's just a tad short on college experience.

He also played D-1 ball.

If someone wanted to stack his credentials vs. Silas, Irvin blows him out of the water. Hell, just in one year, the recruits he attracted all the way out to Macomb was impressive.

Anyway, I'm not stumping for him but I would be very intrigued if he was a candidate.

Uiniu57 wrote:
Sorry if you thought I was suggesting a "deep, dark conspiracy." I simply thought all three either should -- or have already indicated -- be added to the list. BTW, I also go back to the John McDougal days and had many conversations with coach; plus I also agreed it was foolish for NIU to leave the MAC. We probably have more in common than you'd think.

Then wrote:
Sorry you are taking this as some assault on you.
All I tried to do was correct something I thought was a misinterpretation but, for whatever reason, you pushed back on it and now are acting like me (or whoever) is acting out of line.
It wasn't that big of a deal but your messaging on it has been real confusing as to what the list was supposed to be.
And if it was intended to be a list of actual candidates that we came up with here, i just assumed you'd want it to be as accurate as possible.
Sorry I've offended you.

(Note: chaining onto all that would mean writing a novel ... so ...)

My apologies also. I try to be careful with posts and not get crazy, but it's sometimes frustrating when a simple post gets dragged off the deep end because of semantics. I was trying to provide a service at a time when names were/are flying all over the place. Some people are stumping for favorites, some who aren't are accused of stumping anyway, and some people are just naming names.

IMO, we are all in a state of flux because we really have nothing to do with the selection of the next head coach, but it seems a lot of people want to be. I guess there's some value -- when the next coach is named -- in being able to say "See! I told you!"

To me, the bottom line is ... finally ... the lowly state of MBB is getting some attention, so (hopefully) only good can come from this. Otherwise it's a waste of a good Convo. As I said in another post, I'll support Mr. Bojangles or Howard the Duck as long as MBB gets consistently better and better.

We good?

(01-06-2021 08:37 PM)DeKalb57 Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 09:13 AM)Big Red Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 08:52 AM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 08:28 AM)NIUfrankie Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 05:29 PM)dc1 Wrote:  We are NIU with Chicago next door many coaches will believe they can come here and win. We can get a decent coach

You can’t recruit in Chicago, at a high level, unless you grease the right palms.

I've heard that more than once, from people who know the Chicago basketball "market" well. Time to throw a donation at an AAU team.

Or hire Nick Irvin.

Or walk away from recruiting Chicago.

The notion of "recruiting Chicago" is borne in the weed shop that is to open in the Junction Center. We do not have a history of being successful with Chicago players. We have had success with: Wi players, Upstate Eight Players, Michigan players... Chicago is elusive. At best, NIU gets a few. Largely, it's table scraps.

Novak realized this and, changed the model. I believe the same model applies to basketball. Chicago is more trouble than it's worth.

While I agree that recruiting Chicago may be more trouble than it's worth. The 1991 team was full of Chicago players. They seemed to do alright.

(01-06-2021 09:26 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  Uiniu57 wrote:
Sorry if you thought I was suggesting a "deep, dark conspiracy." I simply thought all three either should -- or have already indicated -- be added to the list. BTW, I also go back to the John McDougal days and had many conversations with coach; plus I also agreed it was foolish for NIU to leave the MAC. We probably have more in common than you'd think.

Then wrote:
Sorry you are taking this as some assault on you.
All I tried to do was correct something I thought was a misinterpretation but, for whatever reason, you pushed back on it and now are acting like me (or whoever) is acting out of line.
It wasn't that big of a deal but your messaging on it has been real confusing as to what the list was supposed to be.
And if it was intended to be a list of actual candidates that we came up with here, i just assumed you'd want it to be as accurate as possible.
Sorry I've offended you.

(Note: chaining onto all that would mean writing a novel ... so ...)

My apologies also. I try to be careful with posts and not get crazy, but it's sometimes frustrating when a simple post gets dragged off the deep end because of semantics. I was trying to provide a service at a time when names were/are flying all over the place. Some people are stumping for favorites, some who aren't are accused of stumping anyway, and some people are just naming names.

IMO, we are all in a state of flux because we really have nothing to do with the selection of the next head coach, but it seems a lot of people want to be. I guess there's some value -- when the next coach is named -- in being able to say "See! I told you!"

To me, the bottom line is ... finally ... the lowly state of MBB is getting some attention, so (hopefully) only good can come from this. Otherwise it's a waste of a good Convo. As I said in another post, I'll support Mr. Bojangles or Howard the Duck as long as MBB gets consistently better and better.

We good?

Yup. All good.

(01-06-2021 09:33 PM)Doggone Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 08:37 PM)DeKalb57 Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 09:13 AM)Big Red Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 08:52 AM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 08:28 AM)NIUfrankie Wrote:  You can’t recruit in Chicago, at a high level, unless you grease the right palms.

I've heard that more than once, from people who know the Chicago basketball "market" well. Time to throw a donation at an AAU team.

Or hire Nick Irvin.

Or walk away from recruiting Chicago.

The notion of "recruiting Chicago" is borne in the weed shop that is to open in the Junction Center. We do not have a history of being successful with Chicago players. We have had success with: Wi players, Upstate Eight Players, Michigan players... Chicago is elusive. At best, NIU gets a few. Largely, it's table scraps.

Novak realized this and, changed the model. I believe the same model applies to basketball. Chicago is more trouble than it's worth.

While I agree that recruiting Chicago may be more trouble than it's worth. The 1991 team was full of Chicago players. They seemed to do alright.

However, recruiting Chicago "basketball" players vs Chicago "football" players is two totally different things.

For example, CPS doesn't have any feeder schools so the kids they get either played club ball or they played for their elementary school's flag football team (if their school actually fielded a team...not all of them do). So, the talent in Chicago is pretty poor. Well, the talent/potential might be there, but it's typically pretty rough and undeveloped outside of a few schools and the Catholic League.

Also, the field situation is terrible in Chicago. Many schools don't have their own field and play and/or practice at the local park and very few of them have good equipment to practice with (sleds, dummys, etc). So, at this point in time, recruiting Chicago is not worth it as the suburb and rural kids have tons more training and experience.

(01-06-2021 08:46 PM)Big Red Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 07:59 PM)DPD Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 09:13 AM)Big Red Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 08:52 AM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 08:28 AM)NIUfrankie Wrote:  You can’t recruit in Chicago, at a high level, unless you grease the right palms.

I've heard that more than once, from people who know the Chicago basketball "market" well. Time to throw a donation at an AAU team.

Or hire Nick Irvin.

I think it would be risky given his lack of experience but would be on board for that.

For sure, I'd love more experience, but I do like that he has at least a year at a D-1 program. Needless to say, the main reason I mentioned him is because many feel the ability to be connected to and recruit CPS and Illinois should be high. I don't think there's a better guy that would realistically be available than Irvin is (Chin Coleman would be the other but he'd be way out of NIUs price range).

While not having head experience at D-1, I'd think the level he coached at for both Morgan Park and Mac Irvin Fire is pretty damn high quality. He's coached NBA players. Hell, he's gotten guys TO the NBA. He has all the credentials, he's just a tad short on college experience.

He also played D-1 ball.

If someone wanted to stack his credentials vs. Silas, Irvin blows him out of the water. Hell, just in one year, the recruits he attracted all the way out to Macomb was impressive.

Anyway, I'm not stumping for him but I would be very intrigued if he was a candidate.

Irvin would bring a few kids who may otherwise go to a better mid-major program, probably a high major transfer or two as well. But he would bring absolutely nothing in the way of coaching.

I don't know how else to put it without being rude, but his style at Morgan Park was roll the ball out there and win because your team is 20x better. Also, he himself never put any players in the NBA. Did he have NBA caliber players who he convinced to come to MP? Yes, absolutely.

Look, Coach Irvin is going to make more money than I ever will as a big time assistant college coach. In fact he'd probably be a top candidate for an assistant gig at Illinois if/when Chin Coleman leaves. But he will make his living as a recruiter, and nothing more.

I know you aren't campaigning for him as the next head coach, but I just had to comment. I would take him over Silas though, like you said.

(01-07-2021 02:01 AM)NIUtrav09 Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 08:46 PM)Big Red Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 07:59 PM)DPD Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 09:13 AM)Big Red Wrote:  

(01-06-2021 08:52 AM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  I've heard that more than once, from people who know the Chicago basketball "market" well. Time to throw a donation at an AAU team.

Or hire Nick Irvin.

I think it would be risky given his lack of experience but would be on board for that.

For sure, I'd love more experience, but I do like that he has at least a year at a D-1 program. Needless to say, the main reason I mentioned him is because many feel the ability to be connected to and recruit CPS and Illinois should be high. I don't think there's a better guy that would realistically be available than Irvin is (Chin Coleman would be the other but he'd be way out of NIUs price range).

While not having head experience at D-1, I'd think the level he coached at for both Morgan Park and Mac Irvin Fire is pretty damn high quality. He's coached NBA players. Hell, he's gotten guys TO the NBA. He has all the credentials, he's just a tad short on college experience.

He also played D-1 ball.

If someone wanted to stack his credentials vs. Silas, Irvin blows him out of the water. Hell, just in one year, the recruits he attracted all the way out to Macomb was impressive.

Anyway, I'm not stumping for him but I would be very intrigued if he was a candidate.

Irvin would bring a few kids who may otherwise go to a better mid-major program, probably a high major transfer or two as well. But he would bring absolutely nothing in the way of coaching.

I don't know how else to put it without being rude, but his style at Morgan Park was roll the ball out there and win because your team is 20x better. Also, he himself never put any players in the NBA. Did he have NBA caliber players who he convinced to come to MP? Yes, absolutely.

Look, Coach Irvin is going to make more money than I ever will as a big time assistant college coach. In fact he'd probably be a top candidate for an assistant gig at Illinois if/when Chin Coleman leaves. But he will make his living as a recruiter, and nothing more.

I know you aren't campaigning for him as the next head coach, but I just had to comment. I would take him over Silas though, like you said.

Yeah, I can't completely disagree with you as you make some pretty valid points. And the NBA thing, sure...they have to go to college first. Needless to say, he's managed high profile personalities and he's connected. Definitely a recruiter, as you said. But I'd bet he knows a little something about coaching. But, most definitely a recruiter, which isn't the worst thing.

(01-06-2021 09:26 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  To me, the bottom line is ... finally ... the lowly state of MBB is getting some attention, so (hopefully) only good can come from this. Otherwise it's a waste of a good Convo. As I said in another post, I'll support Mr. Bojangles or Howard the Duck as long as MBB gets consistently better and better.
We good?

We good!
Have always enjoyed success for any Huskie sport more based on the coaching and players as opposed to a particular sport. Was never able to foresee consistent improvement or effort under Monty so I, too, would welcome Bojangles or Howard. Contact or personal experience with coaches and certain players since the 80s have made me value progress at times as more satisfying than wins or losses. Examples: could never feel that Sadler had any loyalty or commitment to NIU other than as a stepping stone; loved coach Albright, but watching NIU women's hoops dominate the Mid-Con made me resent some of the hoop troopers who looked down on every opponent, kind of like the long-term building of success by Novak has virtually spoiled the expectations and thinking of some folks on this site. Hammel and his staff having to recruit and compete against the Mid-Con, then Midwestern Collegiate, and ultimately the MAC added to how much I admired or rooted for a class act like Lux, or the hustle of a Chris Coleman or Mike Hartke.

"I was one of the few NIU hoopsters to play in the pros" yeah, 4 games!!

(01-10-2021 09:24 AM)deepsouthhuskie Wrote:  "I was one of the few NIU hoopsters to play in the pros" yeah, 4 games!!

Let's be fair, the Silas NBA career stat line:
10 games played, averaging 8.7 minutes, 4.3 points, 31.6 FG%, 34.6 3FG%, 0.9 rebpg, 0.3 aatpg, 0.1 stlpg, 0.1 blkpg

Just for comparison, the Whiteside NBA career stat line:
30 games played, averaging 9.2 minutes, 2.0 points, 33.3%, 32.4 3FG%, 0.4 rebpg, 1.2 astpg, 0.4 stlpg, 0.0 blkpg.

Kenny Battle NBA career stat line:
134 games played, averaging 13.4 minutes, 4.7 points, 50.4 FG%, 13.3 3FG%, 2.4 rebpg, 0.8 astpg, 0.7 stlpg, and 0.2 blkpg.

Actual relevance for NIU coaching and recruiting: 0.037

(01-10-2021 09:51 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:  

(01-10-2021 09:24 AM)deepsouthhuskie Wrote:  "I was one of the few NIU hoopsters to play in the pros" yeah, 4 games!!

Let's be fair, the Silas NBA career stat line:
10 games played, averaging 8.7 minutes, 4.3 points, 31.6 FG%, 34.6 3FG%, 0.9 rebpg, 0.3 aatpg, 0.1 stlpg, 0.1 blkpg

Just for comparison, the Whiteside NBA career stat line:
30 games played, averaging 9.2 minutes, 2.0 points, 33.3%, 32.4 3FG%, 0.4 rebpg, 1.2 astpg, 0.4 stlpg, 0.0 blkpg.

Kenny Battle NBA career stat line:
134 games played, averaging 13.4 minutes, 4.7 points, 50.4 FG%, 13.3 3FG%, 2.4 rebpg, 0.8 astpg, 0.7 stlpg, and 0.2 blkpg.

Actual relevance for NIU coaching and recruiting: 0.037

5 seasons in the NBA. Is still 5 seasons. Most get 0 seasons.

(01-10-2021 09:55 AM)BDB5yp Wrote:  

(01-10-2021 09:51 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:  

(01-10-2021 09:24 AM)deepsouthhuskie Wrote:  "I was one of the few NIU hoopsters to play in the pros" yeah, 4 games!!

Let's be fair, the Silas NBA career stat line:
10 games played, averaging 8.7 minutes, 4.3 points, 31.6 FG%, 34.6 3FG%, 0.9 rebpg, 0.3 aatpg, 0.1 stlpg, 0.1 blkpg

Just for comparison, the Whiteside NBA career stat line:
30 games played, averaging 9.2 minutes, 2.0 points, 33.3%, 32.4 3FG%, 0.4 rebpg, 1.2 astpg, 0.4 stlpg, 0.0 blkpg.

Kenny Battle NBA career stat line:
134 games played, averaging 13.4 minutes, 4.7 points, 50.4 FG%, 13.3 3FG%, 2.4 rebpg, 0.8 astpg, 0.7 stlpg, and 0.2 blkpg.

Actual relevance for NIU coaching and recruiting: 0.037

5 seasons in the NBA. Is still 5 seasons. Most get 0 seasons.

Look up PJ FLEX's stats in the NFL.

Oh? That's the NFL you say? Fine. Look up Phil Jackson's playing stats. Still more than Silas? Then look up Greg Popovich's playing stats.

But that the NBA? How could he recruit? Fine, look up John Calipari's NBA stats or Coach K's. They get the best talent year in and year out.

Playing pro has little to do with your success rate as a coach. Nor is it a strong variable for recruiting. I like Silas, I think he's got a ton of potential. But he's not ready for this, it's a tough road ahead for NIU basketball and we will need someone who is a little more developed. I wouldn't mind him coming in as an assistant coach and earning his stripes, but it's just too much too soon.