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SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
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Post: #21
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
(01-03-2021 03:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 03:16 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 02:56 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 02:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 02:20 PM)cubucks Wrote:  Fair points! IMO the CFP has hurt the game much more than help. Way too much focus on the Playoff, on behalf of ESPN, that we can't even enjoy the regular season. You have teams like Northwestern, Kansas State, Houston, Georgia Tech, Louisiana, Ole Miss, Stanford and so on being called out for having loses or a weak schedule non-stop, rather than just enjoying football.

I turn on a game like Texas-Oklahoma for example, to enjoy a rivalry game and all I get is graphs, rankings and talking heads telling me why these two teams do/don't matter. The way everyone sets up the drama for a lousy 4 team playoff is just ridiculous!

ESPN is selling it like the NBA. All Celtics and Lakers or personalities, Lebron James or Seth Curry. That is not what college football is about.

And a 5-1-2 playoff means the regular season, well it just matters more.

I do not agree. With 5/1/2, or any system that has conference champ auto-bids, the OOC games become far less important, irrelevant save for filling the two paltry at-large spots. You can lose them all and still make the playoffs, as long as you win your little conference-bubble. And when filling national playoffs, the irony is that OOC games should matter most.
so what your saying is you do not like the playoffs in any sport like well you name any sport with real playoffs and you don’t like it
you are a socialist! plain and simple

That's a pretty weird thing to say, since in just about every sport with playoffs I can think of the "OOC" games count very much. E.g., in the NFL, if the Cowboys are 5-3 in the division but 10-6 overall while the Eagles are 6-2 in the division but 9-7 overall, the Cowboys win the division not the Eagles. But in college conferences, no.

And in every sport, the division winner advances. The NFC East will have at best, a 7-9 champion. It may be 6-10. They will make the playoffs.
01-03-2021 05:35 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #22
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
(01-03-2021 05:34 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Individual schools is more meaningful than conferences.

Alabama has rendered conference play largely a joke, just as Ohio State and Clemson have, and for awhile Oklahoma did (Oregon never quite had that, but close). It was simply can they get through unscathed, or no more than one loss, as their slot was pretty much waiting.

That IMO is the big story, the real picture.

Well, in the past four years, Alabama has won the SEC title twice. And Georgia and LSU have also made the playoffs.

But definitely, in the Big 12/ACC/B1G a "dominant program" model has emerged, with Oklahoma, Ohio State and Clemson being the conference White Knights.

It kinds of reminds me of when I was playing dungeons and dragons (yes, I did that, LOL) forty years ago. I was a member of a party of adventurers, and when the party would kill a monster or something and gain treasure and weapons, the idea most of us had was that the booty would be distributed evenly, so we all gained the same. But one player had a different idea. He said the best strategy for party success was to load up one player with all the magical devices and weapons, making him kind of a Marvel Super Hero. Of course that would reduce the rest of us to a bunch of nobodies. But he said if we distributed evenly, we'd all be a bunch of "5s" in terms of power, and if a bunch of 5s encounter a monster who is a "10", that monster will just lay waste to everyone, as no "5" could really do anything to harm them. So better than one of our party also be a "10", so he could have a good chance to beat the "10" monster while the rest of us, reduced to being 2s, basically hide behind his coattails, LOL.

I thought about it, and realized the idea had merit in a perverse way. Of course, he wanted his particular character to be that "10" dude, LOL. So we didn't do it that way.

Clemson and Ohio State are like these ACC and B1G super-warriors, loaded up with all the magical toys and weapons, so as to do battle with whatever Big Monster is stomping around out there. Alabama being that monster.
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2021 07:44 PM by quo vadis.)
01-03-2021 07:39 PM
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ChrisLords Offline
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Post: #23
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
I expect to see the title of this thread in a writer's tweet some time soon.
01-04-2021 05:14 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #24
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
(01-03-2021 05:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 03:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 03:16 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 02:56 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 02:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  ESPN is selling it like the NBA. All Celtics and Lakers or personalities, Lebron James or Seth Curry. That is not what college football is about.

And a 5-1-2 playoff means the regular season, well it just matters more.

I do not agree. With 5/1/2, or any system that has conference champ auto-bids, the OOC games become far less important, irrelevant save for filling the two paltry at-large spots. You can lose them all and still make the playoffs, as long as you win your little conference-bubble. And when filling national playoffs, the irony is that OOC games should matter most.
so what your saying is you do not like the playoffs in any sport like well you name any sport with real playoffs and you don’t like it
you are a socialist! plain and simple

That's a pretty weird thing to say, since in just about every sport with playoffs I can think of the "OOC" games count very much. E.g., in the NFL, if the Cowboys are 5-3 in the division but 10-6 overall while the Eagles are 6-2 in the division but 9-7 overall, the Cowboys win the division not the Eagles. But in college conferences, no.

And in every sport, the division winner advances. The NFC East will have at best, a 7-9 champion. It may be 6-10. They will make the playoffs.

Yes, and (a) that's crazy that they will advance, (b) it shows the mind-numbing nature of "objective rules" that NFL fans sheeply accept this, and © as I said the division winner advances after winning a division in which all the games they play count, unlike in college football. That's pretty critical in terms of acceptance, IMO.
01-04-2021 10:56 AM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #25
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
The Big Ten wants very much to break up that dynasty.
I found it amusing that the former commissioner of The Big Ten was very much against expanding the playoffs in 2016.

“Jim Delany makes clear there's no push for College Football Playoff expansion”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc.../95309942/

A short two years later, Delaney changes his tune.

“Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany Ready to Talk College Football Playoff Expansion”

https://www.si.com/college/2018/12/18/bi...-expansion

Now I wonder what happened to make old Jimmy change his mind. Maybe he gives us some idea why his attitude toward expanding the playoffs changed. He said this in 2019.

“Jim Delany - SEC, ACC snub to spur playoff change”

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...off-change


Don’t get me wrong, I’m for expanding the playoffs. I don’t want to see expansion unless EVERY league is included at some level. Expansion to make sure every P5 champion gets in without giving fair and equitable access to the other conferences is unacceptable.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2021 07:52 PM by CardinalJim.)
01-04-2021 07:51 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #26
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
(01-04-2021 07:51 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The Big Ten wants very much to break up that dynasty.
I found it amusing that the former commissioner of The Big Ten was very much against expanding the playoffs in 2016.

“Jim Delany makes clear there's no push for College Football Playoff expansion”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc.../95309942/

A short two years later, Delaney changes his tune.

“Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany Ready to Talk College Football Playoff Expansion”

https://www.si.com/college/2018/12/18/bi...-expansion

Now I wonder what happened to make old Jimmy change his mind. Maybe he gives us some idea why his attitude toward expanding the playoffs changed. He said this in 2019.

“Jim Delany - SEC, ACC snub to spur playoff change”

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...off-change


Don’t get me wrong, I’m for expanding the playoffs. I don’t want to see expansion unless EVERY league is included at some level. Expansion to make sure every P5 champion gets in without giving fair and equitable access to the other conferences is unacceptable.

Delany, who was an amazing commissioner, is off base in saying Auburn being left out in 2004 spurred the move towards expanding beyond the BCS. Because a playoff was not adopted until 8 years later and no playoff games were played until 10 years later.

IMO, Delany is just doing what he was paid to do, speak for the B1G. When the B1G missed the playoffs in 2017 and 2018, the B1G was angsty and started yarping about expansion. Since the B1G has now made the playoffs the past two years, we hear much less of that out of them. Now the PAC, which hasn't made the playoffs in four years, is all about expansion.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2021 08:04 PM by quo vadis.)
01-04-2021 08:03 PM
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Post: #27
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
(01-04-2021 08:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-04-2021 07:51 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The Big Ten wants very much to break up that dynasty.
I found it amusing that the former commissioner of The Big Ten was very much against expanding the playoffs in 2016.

“Jim Delany makes clear there's no push for College Football Playoff expansion”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc.../95309942/

A short two years later, Delaney changes his tune.

“Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany Ready to Talk College Football Playoff Expansion”

https://www.si.com/college/2018/12/18/bi...-expansion

Now I wonder what happened to make old Jimmy change his mind. Maybe he gives us some idea why his attitude toward expanding the playoffs changed. He said this in 2019.

“Jim Delany - SEC, ACC snub to spur playoff change”

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...off-change


Don’t get me wrong, I’m for expanding the playoffs. I don’t want to see expansion unless EVERY league is included at some level. Expansion to make sure every P5 champion gets in without giving fair and equitable access to the other conferences is unacceptable.

Delany, who was an amazing commissioner, is off base in saying Auburn being left out in 2004 spurred the move towards expanding beyond the BCS. Because a playoff was not adopted until 8 years later and no playoff games were played until 10 years later.

IMO, Delany is just doing what he was paid to do, speak for the B1G. When the B1G missed the playoffs in 2017 and 2018, the B1G was angsty and started yarping about expansion. Since the B1G has now made the playoffs the past two years, we hear much less of that out of them. Now the PAC, which hasn't made the playoffs in four years, is all about expansion.

It was expanded because of the Alabama-LSU rematch disaster. That year failed in every way. It wasn't fair to LSU. It was an ugly game. And it was a ratings disaster. ESPN did its best that year to pretend Oklahoma St. didn't exist. They talked about Stanford vs. Alabama.
01-04-2021 08:40 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #28
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
(01-04-2021 08:40 PM)bullet Wrote:  It was expanded because of the Alabama-LSU rematch disaster. That year failed in every way. It wasn't fair to LSU. It was an ugly game. And it was a ratings disaster. ESPN did its best that year to pretend Oklahoma St. didn't exist. They talked about Stanford vs. Alabama.

Alabama vs LSU was a big impetus for the playoffs, but not because of anything inherently wrong with two conference teams playing. Ratings were poor because the game was ugly, but that would have happened no matter who was playing. Oklahoma vs USC in 2005 had even worse ratings, because that was a blowout. It created no impetus towards a playoff, though.

The real reason that game prompted playoffs was because the other major conferences didn't like the SEC putting two teams in the game at their expense. Expansion meant twice as many places so more conferences get in even if the SEC does hog two of them.

The irony, of course, is that as Delany says in that interview, because there are more spaces, getting left out is much more conspicuous and negative these days for a power conference than it was in the BCS era. In the BCS era, there were just two slots so it was a given that most conferences would get left out each year, so no stigma. The BCS title game was about teams, not conferences.

But with the CFP, it is always the case that a majority of P5 conferences will get in, so if you do not, you look like a tail-end loser.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2021 10:20 PM by quo vadis.)
01-04-2021 10:19 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #29
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
That's 11 national titles for the SEC in the past 15 seasons.

That's not only unprecedented generally, it's unprecedented for the SEC as well. The SEC has won a total of 22 AP national titles, and 11, half of them, have come in the last 15 years.

Between 1936 and 2006, a full 70 years, the SEC won 11 AP titles.
01-13-2021 10:05 AM
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Post: #30
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
(01-13-2021 10:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  That's 11 national titles for the SEC in the past 15 seasons.

That's not only unprecedented generally, it's unprecedented for the SEC as well. The SEC has won a total of 22 AP national titles, and 11, half of them, have come in the last 15 years.

Between 1936 and 2006, a full 70 years, the SEC won 11 AP titles.

Of course 6 of those 11, 6 of the last 8, and 5 of the last 6 SEC national championships were won by Alabama. I know LSU was last year but giving the SEC credit for all the national championships is like saying the ACC is a power conference in college football because of Clemson or the Big Ten is because of Ohio State.
01-13-2021 10:22 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #31
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
(01-13-2021 10:22 AM)schmolik Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 10:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  That's 11 national titles for the SEC in the past 15 seasons.

That's not only unprecedented generally, it's unprecedented for the SEC as well. The SEC has won a total of 22 AP national titles, and 11, half of them, have come in the last 15 years.

Between 1936 and 2006, a full 70 years, the SEC won 11 AP titles.

Of course 6 of those 11, 6 of the last 8, and 5 of the last 6 SEC national championships were won by Alabama. I know LSU was last year but giving the SEC credit for all the national championships is like saying the ACC is a power conference in college football because of Clemson or the Big Ten is because of Ohio State.

Yes, Alabama has won six of them, but that means other SEC teams have won five. Both Florida and LSU have won two in that time, which Alabama aside, only Clemson has matched.

So compared to other conference dynasties in major sports, like say the PAC winning a bunch of hoops titles in the 1960s and 1970s, all won by UCLA, that is IMO a lot of diversity.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2021 04:22 PM by quo vadis.)
01-13-2021 10:27 AM
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Post: #32
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
(01-13-2021 10:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 10:22 AM)schmolik Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 10:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  That's 11 national titles for the SEC in the past 15 seasons.

That's not only unprecedented generally, it's unprecedented for the SEC as well. The SEC has won a total of 22 AP national titles, and 11, half of them, have come in the last 15 years.

Between 1936 and 2006, a full 70 years, the SEC won 11 AP titles.

Of course 6 of those 11, 6 of the last 8, and 5 of the last 6 SEC national championships were won by Alabama. I know LSU was last year but giving the SEC credit for all the national championships is like saying the ACC is a power conference in college football because of Clemson or the Big Ten is because of Ohio State.

Yes, while Alabama has won six of them, but that means other SEC teams have won five. Both Florida and LSU have won two in that time, which Alabama aside, only Clemson has matched.

So compared to other conference dynasties in major sports, like say the PAC winning a bunch of hoops titles in the 1960s and 1970s, all won by UCLA, that is IMO a lot of diversity.

The better question Quo would be when was the last national championships won in the PAC, Big 12, SEC, Big 10 and ACC by a team other than U.S.C., Oklahoma, Alabama, Ohio State, or Clemson?

L.S.U., Texas, and Florida State immediately jump to mind. With L.S.U. being a year ago, Florida State in 2013, and Texas in the BCS era within the last 20 years. But, I can't recall the last team other than Ohio State for the Big 10 going back to Michigan and Schembechler days. Well I looked it up and Michigan split one in 1997 by poll vote and Washington split one in 1991 the same way. But my point is pretty clear. Most conferences are 1 or 2 horse races. That's the difference in the SEC.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2021 02:48 PM by JRsec.)
01-13-2021 01:39 PM
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Post: #33
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
(01-13-2021 01:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 10:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 10:22 AM)schmolik Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 10:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  That's 11 national titles for the SEC in the past 15 seasons.

That's not only unprecedented generally, it's unprecedented for the SEC as well. The SEC has won a total of 22 AP national titles, and 11, half of them, have come in the last 15 years.

Between 1936 and 2006, a full 70 years, the SEC won 11 AP titles.

Of course 6 of those 11, 6 of the last 8, and 5 of the last 6 SEC national championships were won by Alabama. I know LSU was last year but giving the SEC credit for all the national championships is like saying the ACC is a power conference in college football because of Clemson or the Big Ten is because of Ohio State.

Yes, while Alabama has won six of them, but that means other SEC teams have won five. Both Florida and LSU have won two in that time, which Alabama aside, only Clemson has matched.

So compared to other conference dynasties in major sports, like say the PAC winning a bunch of hoops titles in the 1960s and 1970s, all won by UCLA, that is IMO a lot of diversity.

The better question Quo would be when was the last national championships won in the PAC, Big 12, SEC, Big 10 and ACC by a team other than U.S.C., Oklahoma, Alabama, Ohio State, or Clemson?

L.S.U., Texas, and Florida State immediately jump to mind. With L.S.U. being a year ago, Florida State in 2013, and Texas in the BCS era within the last 20 years. But, I can't recall the last team other than Ohio State for the Big 10 going back to Michigan and Schembechler days.

BCS/CFP Era - 23 Years

Champions (23)
6x - Alabama
3x - LSU
2x - Clemson, Florida, Florida St, Ohio St
1x - Auburn, Oklahoma, Miami, Tennessee, Texas, USC

Runners-Up (23)
3x - Ohio St, Oklahoma
2x - Alabama, Clemson, Florida St, Oregon
1x - Auburn, Georgia, LSU, Miami, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Texas, USC, Virginia Tech

Semi-Finalists (14)
4x - Oklahoma
2x - Clemson, Notre Dame, Ohio St
1x - Alabama, Florida St, Michigan St, Washington

Total Appearances in BCS Championships & CFP Playoffs (60)
9x - Alabama
8x - Oklahoma
7x - Ohio St
6x - Clemson
5x - Florida St
4x - LSU
3x - Notre Dame
2x - Auburn, Florida, Miami, Oregon, Texas, USC
1x - Georgia, Michigan St, Nebraska, Tennessee, Virginia Tech, Washington

Half of the total appearances (30): Alabama, Clemson, Ohio St, Oklahoma
Half of the total appearances (30): 15 other schools

By Conference:

Champions (23)
13x - SEC
4x - ACC
2x - B1G, XII
1x - PAC, BIG EAST

Runners-Up (23)
5x - SEC, XII
4x - ACC
3x - B1G, PAC
2x - BIG EAST
1x - IND

Semi-Finalists (14)
4x - ACC, XII
3x - B1G
1x - SEC, PAC, IND

Total Appearances in BCS Championships & CFP Playoffs (60)
19x - SEC
12x - ACC
11x - XII
8x - B1G
5x - PAC
3x - BIG EAST
2x - IND
01-13-2021 03:21 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #34
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
(01-13-2021 03:21 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 01:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 10:27 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 10:22 AM)schmolik Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 10:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  That's 11 national titles for the SEC in the past 15 seasons.

That's not only unprecedented generally, it's unprecedented for the SEC as well. The SEC has won a total of 22 AP national titles, and 11, half of them, have come in the last 15 years.

Between 1936 and 2006, a full 70 years, the SEC won 11 AP titles.

Of course 6 of those 11, 6 of the last 8, and 5 of the last 6 SEC national championships were won by Alabama. I know LSU was last year but giving the SEC credit for all the national championships is like saying the ACC is a power conference in college football because of Clemson or the Big Ten is because of Ohio State.

Yes, while Alabama has won six of them, but that means other SEC teams have won five. Both Florida and LSU have won two in that time, which Alabama aside, only Clemson has matched.

So compared to other conference dynasties in major sports, like say the PAC winning a bunch of hoops titles in the 1960s and 1970s, all won by UCLA, that is IMO a lot of diversity.

The better question Quo would be when was the last national championships won in the PAC, Big 12, SEC, Big 10 and ACC by a team other than U.S.C., Oklahoma, Alabama, Ohio State, or Clemson?

L.S.U., Texas, and Florida State immediately jump to mind. With L.S.U. being a year ago, Florida State in 2013, and Texas in the BCS era within the last 20 years. But, I can't recall the last team other than Ohio State for the Big 10 going back to Michigan and Schembechler days.

BCS/CFP Era - 23 Years

Champions (23)
6x - Alabama
3x - LSU
2x - Clemson, Florida, Florida St, Ohio St
1x - Auburn, Oklahoma, Miami, Tennessee, Texas, USC

Runners-Up (23)
3x - Ohio St, Oklahoma
2x - Alabama, Clemson, Florida St, Oregon
1x - Auburn, Georgia, LSU, Miami, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Texas, USC, Virginia Tech

Semi-Finalists (14)
4x - Oklahoma
2x - Clemson, Notre Dame, Ohio St
1x - Alabama, Florida St, Michigan St, Washington

Total Appearances in BCS Championships & CFP Playoffs (60)
9x - Alabama
8x - Oklahoma
7x - Ohio St
6x - Clemson
5x - Florida St
4x - LSU
3x - Notre Dame
2x - Auburn, Florida, Miami, Oregon, Texas, USC
1x - Georgia, Michigan St, Nebraska, Tennessee, Virginia Tech, Washington

Half of the total appearances (30): Alabama, Clemson, Ohio St, Oklahoma
Half of the total appearances (30): 15 other schools

By Conference:

Champions (23)
13x - SEC
4x - ACC
2x - B1G, XII
1x - PAC, BIG EAST

Runners-Up (23)
5x - SEC, XII
4x - ACC
3x - B1G, PAC
2x - BIG EAST
1x - IND

Semi-Finalists (14)
4x - ACC, XII
3x - B1G
1x - SEC, PAC, IND

Total Appearances in BCS Championships & CFP Playoffs (60)
19x - SEC
12x - ACC
11x - XII
8x - B1G
5x - PAC
3x - BIG EAST
2x - IND

Like all statistics if you expand the parameters or shorten them you can make whatever case you wish. However, if you look at 23 years then 16 years you see where the strength is consolidating. For the last 5 years it has been a Clemson and Alabama world with an interruption by L.S.U.. But the SEC has won 11 of the last 15 with 4 different schools winning.

If you really want to see where the power is consolidated then confine the champions to the States of Alabama, South Carolina, Florida and Louisiana and drop the conference affiliation. What you are witnessing very clearly is a consolidation of football strength in a very small region of the country, but one in which high school football is still a religion. What this represents is quantitative proof that it not only is becoming a regional sport, but has become a regional sport.

Now if you look at the whole BCS / CFP era you can see that there is still strength in the states of Oklahoma and Texas and that Ohio is still strong as well, but with minor exceptions not enough to overcome schools located in the Deep Southeast. This isn't a statement of SEC superiority, but rather a very clear picture of the power centers of the game and they are far from nationwide.

In this era Southern Cal was the only school outside of the states mentioned to claim a title, and I believe that one was evacuated due to sanctions, though still listed. Other winners Miami and Texas were within the states listed.

Now two conclusions can be drawn from this:
1. The talent gap between these states and all others is massive and Oho State which is in a strong state also recruits the Southeast heavily, especially Florida.
2. It calls into question the AP / UPI latter years when many Southern and Southwestern teams were very strong but passed over in the polls by the majority of sportswriters who were on the West Coast and in the Northeast. I mention this to say that the polling system may obscure how early the shift in strength actually began.

The public is catching up to this and it is affecting TV ratings, although politics and the virus have affected interest as well, I still see the regionality of the game being the major factor at play in the decline.

So what would fix this? We really need to move to P4 of regional conferences and have a champs only playoff, or an 8 team playoff with champs only and 4 at large. At least it would keep all 4 regions involved through the first round and increase their interest in watching the whole playoff. Competitiveness won't be improved because it doesn't address the underlying cultural changes that have brought this about, but including schools from other regions would at least keep it profitable.

But the proof of action is this years game. And the dominance of the Southeast in a 4 team playoff is too condensed to keep interest.
01-13-2021 03:48 PM
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Realignment Offline
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Post: #35
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
The SEC is the premiere conference in College Football. After that, the rest are there to try and slay the beast.

Big Time Programs

SEC (Alabama, Georgia, Florida & LSU)
ACC (Clemson, Florida State & Miami)
Big 12 (Oklahoma & Texas)
Big Ten (Michigan, Ohio State & Penn State)
Pac-12 (Oregon & USC)

2nd Tier Big Time Programs

SEC (Arkansas, Ole Miss, Tennessee & Texas A&M)
ACC (Louisville)
Big 12 (Oklahoma State)
Big Ten (Michigan State & Wisconsin)
Pac-12 (Stanford, UCLA & Washington)

That's how I would see it for these conferences right now. The rest are more feel good stories for the programs if they find success.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2021 04:02 PM by Realignment.)
01-13-2021 04:01 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #36
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
(01-13-2021 04:01 PM)Realignment Wrote:  The SEC is the premiere conference in College Football. After that, the rest are there to try and slay the beast.

Big Time Programs

SEC (Alabama, Georgia, Florida & LSU)
ACC (Clemson, Florida State & Miami)
Big 12 (Oklahoma & Texas)
Big Ten (Michigan, Ohio State & Penn State)
Pac-12 (Oregon & USC)

2nd Tier Big Time Programs

SEC (Arkansas, Ole Miss, Tennessee & Texas A&M)
ACC (Louisville)
Big 12 (Oklahoma State)
Big Ten (Michigan State & Wisconsin)
Pac-12 (Stanford, UCLA & Washington)

That's how I would see it for these conferences right now. The rest are more feel good stories for the programs if they find success.
Your understanding of Big Time programs and 2nd Tier programs is lacking.

Auburn has won a title and played for one. Georgia has made the CFP and won 1 game. And yet you do not list Auburn in either grouping. Arkansas, Ole Miss and Tennessee haven't won anything in over 15 years. Texas A&M is yet to win the SEC but I admit they are an improving program and relatively strong.

Miami hasn't won anything in over 15 years either and Florida State while deserving of their position has dropped off the charts the past few years.

Oregon has never won anything but they have played for a title. Washington probably deserves to be on par with Oregon because they did get a piece of a title some 20 plus years ago.

Penn State hasn't won a Big 10 title and hasn't made the CFP. They are strong but not Ohio State level. Ohio State no longer has peers in the Big 10.
01-13-2021 04:09 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #37
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
(01-13-2021 03:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  If you really want to see where the power is consolidated then confine the champions to the States of Alabama, South Carolina, Florida and Louisiana and drop the conference affiliation. What you are witnessing very clearly is a consolidation of football strength in a very small region of the country, but one in which high school football is still a religion. What this represents is quantitative proof that it not only is becoming a regional sport, but has become a regional sport.

Now if you look at the whole BCS / CFP era you can see that there is still strength in the states of Oklahoma and Texas and that Ohio is still strong as well, but with minor exceptions not enough to overcome schools located in the Deep Southeast. This isn't a statement of SEC superiority, but rather a very clear picture of the power centers of the game and they are far from nationwide.

I think you're on to something: the areas where high school football is "religion" are the places where great college programs are.

High school football is a religion really in only a few places: the Deep South, much of Texas & Oklahoma, and much of Ohio. And it's in a severe decline in the Northeast & the West Coast.

This explains why the strongest programs North of the Mason-Dixon line in recent years (Ohio State, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, Cincinnati) are in Ohio or don't recruit much locally. It explains the decline of programs like Syracuse, Boston College, Penn State, and the original PAC-8.
01-13-2021 04:14 PM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #38
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
(01-13-2021 04:01 PM)Realignment Wrote:  The SEC is the premiere conference in College Football. After that, the rest are there to try and slay the beast.

Big Time Programs

SEC (Alabama, Georgia, Florida & LSU)
ACC (Clemson, Florida State & Miami)
Big 12 (Oklahoma & Texas)
Big Ten (Michigan, Ohio State & Penn State)
Pac-12 (Oregon & USC)

2nd Tier Big Time Programs

SEC (Arkansas, Ole Miss, Tennessee & Texas A&M)
ACC (Louisville)
Big 12 (Oklahoma State)
Big Ten (Michigan State & Wisconsin)
Pac-12 (Stanford, UCLA & Washington)

That's how I would see it for these conferences right now. The rest are more feel good stories for the programs if they find success.
There are 18 programs that have won all the titles in the last 35 years. Those + Oregon and Georgia have dominated the top of the polls at least back to 1968. Your top group does not include Auburn, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Washington, Nebraska or Colorado.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2021 04:38 PM by bullet.)
01-13-2021 04:32 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #39
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
(01-13-2021 10:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  That's 11 national titles for the SEC in the past 15 seasons.

That's not only unprecedented generally, it's unprecedented for the SEC as well. The SEC has won a total of 22 AP national titles, and 11, half of them, have come in the last 15 years.

Between 1936 and 2006, a full 70 years, the SEC won 11 AP titles.
The Mouse runs the sport. The Mouse loves the SEC. You'll probably get another 11 in the next 15, too.

(01-13-2021 04:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 04:01 PM)Realignment Wrote:  The SEC is the premiere conference in College Football. After that, the rest are there to try and slay the beast.

Big Time Programs

SEC (Alabama, Georgia, Florida & LSU)
ACC (Clemson, Florida State & Miami)
Big 12 (Oklahoma & Texas)
Big Ten (Michigan, Ohio State & Penn State)
Pac-12 (Oregon & USC)

2nd Tier Big Time Programs

SEC (Arkansas, Ole Miss, Tennessee & Texas A&M)
ACC (Louisville)
Big 12 (Oklahoma State)
Big Ten (Michigan State & Wisconsin)
Pac-12 (Stanford, UCLA & Washington)

That's how I would see it for these conferences right now. The rest are more feel good stories for the programs if they find success.
There are 18 programs that have won all the titles in the last 35 years. Those + Oregon and Georgia have dominated the top of the polls at least back to 1968. Your top group does not include Auburn, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Washington, Nebraska or Colorado.
Nebraska fans just got done being excited they managed to beat Rutgers. Nebraska's a complete joke now. Even the local kids in Omaha are starting to wear Iowa gear around instead. It turns out losing 11 straight to your declared rivals has ramifications.

(01-13-2021 04:14 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 03:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  If you really want to see where the power is consolidated then confine the champions to the States of Alabama, South Carolina, Florida and Louisiana and drop the conference affiliation. What you are witnessing very clearly is a consolidation of football strength in a very small region of the country, but one in which high school football is still a religion. What this represents is quantitative proof that it not only is becoming a regional sport, but has become a regional sport.

Now if you look at the whole BCS / CFP era you can see that there is still strength in the states of Oklahoma and Texas and that Ohio is still strong as well, but with minor exceptions not enough to overcome schools located in the Deep Southeast. This isn't a statement of SEC superiority, but rather a very clear picture of the power centers of the game and they are far from nationwide.

I think you're on to something: the areas where high school football is "religion" are the places where great college programs are.

High school football is a religion really in only a few places: the Deep South, much of Texas & Oklahoma, and much of Ohio. And it's in a severe decline in the Northeast & the West Coast.

This explains why the strongest programs North of the Mason-Dixon line in recent years (Ohio State, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, Cincinnati) are in Ohio or don't recruit much locally. It explains the decline of programs like Syracuse, Boston College, Penn State, and the original PAC-8.
You're seeing bleeding in the Great Plains, too. Programs out in the rural parts of the state, where high school football is a much bigger deal, are feeling the squeeze of urban flight and having to consolidate. Many of these consolidations are two old rivals having to share a new uniform, name, and colors, which kills a lot of local enthusiasm. The Omaha metro puts out decent talent, but a lot of it ends up in Iowa, North Dakota, South Dakota, or Wyoming. CTE-mania has led a lot of mothers to pressure their kids to take up other sports instead, cross country being a major beneficiary of football's PR decline.
A local writer in Omaha has done amazing work chronicling the decline of high school football in Nebraska. A lot of the problems mirror the way the state is changing as a whole.
https://omaha.com/special_sections/the-d...-football/
https://omaha.com/sports/huskers/footbal...fb33a.html
01-13-2021 04:53 PM
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Post: #40
RE: SEC Dynasty: SEC playing for national title for 16th time in past 15 years
(01-13-2021 04:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-13-2021 04:01 PM)Realignment Wrote:  The SEC is the premiere conference in College Football. After that, the rest are there to try and slay the beast.

Big Time Programs

SEC (Alabama, Georgia, Florida & LSU)
ACC (Clemson, Florida State & Miami)
Big 12 (Oklahoma & Texas)
Big Ten (Michigan, Ohio State & Penn State)
Pac-12 (Oregon & USC)

2nd Tier Big Time Programs

SEC (Arkansas, Ole Miss, Tennessee & Texas A&M)
ACC (Louisville)
Big 12 (Oklahoma State)
Big Ten (Michigan State & Wisconsin)
Pac-12 (Stanford, UCLA & Washington)

That's how I would see it for these conferences right now. The rest are more feel good stories for the programs if they find success.
Your understanding of Big Time programs and 2nd Tier programs is lacking.

Auburn has won a title and played for one. Georgia has made the CFP and won 1 game. And yet you do not list Auburn in either grouping. Arkansas, Ole Miss and Tennessee haven't won anything in over 15 years. Texas A&M is yet to win the SEC but I admit they are an improving program and relatively strong.

Miami hasn't won anything in over 15 years either and Florida State while deserving of their position has dropped off the charts the past few years.

Oregon has never won anything but they have played for a title. Washington probably deserves to be on par with Oregon because they did get a piece of a title some 20 plus years ago.

Penn State hasn't won a Big 10 title and hasn't made the CFP. They are strong but not Ohio State level. Ohio State no longer has peers in the Big 10.

All else aside, I believe Penn St won the B1G in 2016.
01-13-2021 06:03 PM
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