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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Texas Shocker
(01-03-2021 11:21 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 04:30 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 03:07 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Give it 2 years and I think you’ll see Steve turn the Dabo/Saban Big 2 conversation into the Dabo/Saban/Sarkisian Big 3.

What, after failures at USC and Atlanta, gives you the confidence to believe that Sarkisian has turned the coaching corner?

Ultimately his alcohol issues sunk him at USC. No one really performs their best when dealing with that.

His Atlanta teams got a bad rap, but the offense was actually fine. The reasons those teams lost games was because the defense was bad.

Since he has been at Bama, he's done a fine job. He has helped us land some of the best recruits we've ever had whether you're talking about Tua or Bryce Young. Technically, he's had 2 stints with us in recent years although the first was mainly as an analyst. He left to go to the Falcons.

I wish we weren't losing him. I've seen a ton of OCs come through during Saban's tenure. He and Kiffin were the best which is not surprising given their performance at USC back in the early 2000s. To be honest, I wouldn't have minded if he had stuck around until Saban retired and subsequently took over.

If I were him then I wouldn't have gone to Texas because it's a place that traditionally underachieves and yet expects more. Nonetheless, it's a fantastic opportunity and he'll make a ton of money. I wish him the best.

That Falcon offense was anything but fine with its inability to run the ball and settling for field. Granted, that has been a persistent problem from the birds going back to the Mike Smith era.
01-03-2021 11:32 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #42
RE: Texas Shocker
(01-03-2021 11:32 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 11:21 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 04:30 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 03:07 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Give it 2 years and I think you’ll see Steve turn the Dabo/Saban Big 2 conversation into the Dabo/Saban/Sarkisian Big 3.

What, after failures at USC and Atlanta, gives you the confidence to believe that Sarkisian has turned the coaching corner?

Ultimately his alcohol issues sunk him at USC. No one really performs their best when dealing with that.

His Atlanta teams got a bad rap, but the offense was actually fine. The reasons those teams lost games was because the defense was bad.

Since he has been at Bama, he's done a fine job. He has helped us land some of the best recruits we've ever had whether you're talking about Tua or Bryce Young. Technically, he's had 2 stints with us in recent years although the first was mainly as an analyst. He left to go to the Falcons.

I wish we weren't losing him. I've seen a ton of OCs come through during Saban's tenure. He and Kiffin were the best which is not surprising given their performance at USC back in the early 2000s. To be honest, I wouldn't have minded if he had stuck around until Saban retired and subsequently took over.

If I were him then I wouldn't have gone to Texas because it's a place that traditionally underachieves and yet expects more. Nonetheless, it's a fantastic opportunity and he'll make a ton of money. I wish him the best.

That Falcon offense was anything but fine with its inability to run the ball and settling for field. Granted, that has been a persistent problem from the birds going back to the Mike Smith era.

That would be my concern with looking at his performance at Bama. When Bama has the current talent discrepancy so heavily weighted in your favor-----How can you NOT be successful if your just simply competent? That base level of competence might not be nearly so successful when that talent advantage more marginal---or even balanced.
01-03-2021 11:46 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Texas Shocker
(01-03-2021 11:32 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 11:21 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 04:30 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 03:07 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Give it 2 years and I think you’ll see Steve turn the Dabo/Saban Big 2 conversation into the Dabo/Saban/Sarkisian Big 3.

What, after failures at USC and Atlanta, gives you the confidence to believe that Sarkisian has turned the coaching corner?

Ultimately his alcohol issues sunk him at USC. No one really performs their best when dealing with that.

His Atlanta teams got a bad rap, but the offense was actually fine. The reasons those teams lost games was because the defense was bad.

Since he has been at Bama, he's done a fine job. He has helped us land some of the best recruits we've ever had whether you're talking about Tua or Bryce Young. Technically, he's had 2 stints with us in recent years although the first was mainly as an analyst. He left to go to the Falcons.

I wish we weren't losing him. I've seen a ton of OCs come through during Saban's tenure. He and Kiffin were the best which is not surprising given their performance at USC back in the early 2000s. To be honest, I wouldn't have minded if he had stuck around until Saban retired and subsequently took over.

If I were him then I wouldn't have gone to Texas because it's a place that traditionally underachieves and yet expects more. Nonetheless, it's a fantastic opportunity and he'll make a ton of money. I wish him the best.

That Falcon offense was anything but fine with its inability to run the ball and settling for field. Granted, that has been a persistent problem from the birds going back to the Mike Smith era.

I think we have to be a little forgiving when it comes to the NFL resume for any coach. It's a different game and a different process to acquire talent.

Saban was an average NFL head coach, but look at what he's done in college.

Plenty of guys have successful college careers and flame out in the NFL. It's just a different bird. I would be more concerned if a guy's performance reflected incompetence rather than inadequacy...take Charlie Weis for example.
01-03-2021 11:51 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Texas Shocker
(01-03-2021 11:46 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 11:32 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 11:21 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 04:30 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 03:07 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Give it 2 years and I think you’ll see Steve turn the Dabo/Saban Big 2 conversation into the Dabo/Saban/Sarkisian Big 3.

What, after failures at USC and Atlanta, gives you the confidence to believe that Sarkisian has turned the coaching corner?

Ultimately his alcohol issues sunk him at USC. No one really performs their best when dealing with that.

His Atlanta teams got a bad rap, but the offense was actually fine. The reasons those teams lost games was because the defense was bad.

Since he has been at Bama, he's done a fine job. He has helped us land some of the best recruits we've ever had whether you're talking about Tua or Bryce Young. Technically, he's had 2 stints with us in recent years although the first was mainly as an analyst. He left to go to the Falcons.

I wish we weren't losing him. I've seen a ton of OCs come through during Saban's tenure. He and Kiffin were the best which is not surprising given their performance at USC back in the early 2000s. To be honest, I wouldn't have minded if he had stuck around until Saban retired and subsequently took over.

If I were him then I wouldn't have gone to Texas because it's a place that traditionally underachieves and yet expects more. Nonetheless, it's a fantastic opportunity and he'll make a ton of money. I wish him the best.

That Falcon offense was anything but fine with its inability to run the ball and settling for field. Granted, that has been a persistent problem from the birds going back to the Mike Smith era.

That would be my concern with looking at his performance at Bama. When Bama has the current talent discrepancy so heavily weighted in your favor-----How can you NOT be successful if your just simply competent? That base level of competence might not be nearly so successful when that talent advantage more marginal---or even balanced.

It's a balancing act. The best coaches know how to find the best players, and they know what to do with them.

You take a special talent and place him under the tutelage of an average coach and the performance doesn't tend to be spectacular. Think about how many great offensive talents have come out of LSU in the last 10 years or so. We hardly heard of very many of them during their college days...OBJ perhaps being the most stark example.

It's true that Alabama attracts players, but that has more to do with their ability to prepare them for the NFL rather than simply winning. The latter is a byproduct of the former.

Sark has been great at identifying talent and understanding how to take advantage of it.
01-03-2021 11:58 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Texas Shocker
(01-03-2021 11:51 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I think we have to be a little forgiving when it comes to the NFL resume for any coach. It's a different game and a different process to acquire talent.

Saban was an average NFL head coach, but look at what he's done in college.

Plenty of guys have successful college careers and flame out in the NFL. It's just a different bird. I would be more concerned if a guy's performance reflected incompetence rather than inadequacy...take Charlie Weis for example.

Saban was overruled on Drew Brees and had to settle for Daunte Culpepper as his QB.

I don't think anyone want Sark to fail and it appears that with talented players he can run a dynamic offense. If he were taking a lower profile job I might be more bullish on his prospects, but instead he chose Texas. Between recruiting and the BMD's, he'll have to entrust most of the coaching duties to his assistances.
01-04-2021 07:15 AM
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kevinwmsn Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Texas Shocker
If Saban would have allowed to have Drew Brees instead of Dante Culpepper things would have been different. If you don't have a qb you are not going to have much success.
01-04-2021 09:53 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Texas Shocker
My struggle with seeing this as a fit is this: does anyone see Sarkisian not only doing better than Herman (which is clearly a must) but taking Texas to the level that Oklahoma now has with Lincoln Riley? I certainly don't, which is why I almost see this as a set-up for both sides as a failure.

I think Herman deserved one more year. He got to a top-10 finish in his second year, was 4-0 in bowl games and had a top-10 recruiting class in both 2019 and 2020.

Did something happen behind the scenes that forced the move? Still seems puzzling to me (especially since Herman clearly was a better hire/fit than Charlie Strong).
01-04-2021 10:45 AM
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leofrog Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Texas Shocker
(01-04-2021 10:45 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  My struggle with seeing this as a fit is this: does anyone see Sarkisian not only doing better than Herman (which is clearly a must) but taking Texas to the level that Oklahoma now has with Lincoln Riley? I certainly don't, which is why I almost see this as a set-up for both sides as a failure.

I think Herman deserved one more year. He got to a top-10 finish in his second year, was 4-0 in bowl games and had a top-10 recruiting class in both 2019 and 2020.

Did something happen behind the scenes that forced the move? Still seems puzzling to me (especially since Herman clearly was a better hire/fit than Charlie Strong).
I do see Sark bringing Texas up to Oklahoma’s level. I base this on his previous head coaching stops (bringing Washington up from last place), and learning under Saban. The reason I feel so strongly is I believe he can get the most out of a QB, which Texas has struggled with. They’ve had nice QB’s, but no one who could single handily win games consistently or put fear in defenses like Baker or Kyler. I think that changes.
01-04-2021 11:01 AM
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Post: #49
RE: Texas Shocker
(01-04-2021 11:01 AM)leofrog Wrote:  
(01-04-2021 10:45 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  My struggle with seeing this as a fit is this: does anyone see Sarkisian not only doing better than Herman (which is clearly a must) but taking Texas to the level that Oklahoma now has with Lincoln Riley? I certainly don't, which is why I almost see this as a set-up for both sides as a failure.

I think Herman deserved one more year. He got to a top-10 finish in his second year, was 4-0 in bowl games and had a top-10 recruiting class in both 2019 and 2020.

Did something happen behind the scenes that forced the move? Still seems puzzling to me (especially since Herman clearly was a better hire/fit than Charlie Strong).
I do see Sark bringing Texas up to Oklahoma’s level. I base this on his previous head coaching stops (bringing Washington up from last place), and learning under Saban. The reason I feel so strongly is I believe he can get the most out of a QB, which Texas has struggled with. They’ve had nice QB’s, but no one who could single handily win games consistently or put fear in defenses like Baker or Kyler. I think that changes.

Sam Ehrlinger has been playing a little hurt most of the last two years and is #2 behind Colt McCoy on just about every passing record at Texas. In rushing TDs, his single season record in 2018 is behind only people Longhorn fans know simply by their first names, Ricky Williams, Cedric Benson, Earl Campbell, Jamaal Charles (2007). In career rushing TDs he's 8th, behind those 4, Vince Young, Steve Worster (68-70) and Cody Johnson (08-11). He holds the #1, #2 and #4 streaks of passes without an interception. His top is 308. I think the NCAA record is 379.
01-04-2021 11:32 AM
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Post: #50
RE: Texas Shocker
Some other stats on Ehrlinger. He accounted for more TDS than 93 FBS teams. His 127 career passing/rushing TDs puts him 17th on the all time list.
01-04-2021 12:03 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Texas Shocker
(01-04-2021 07:15 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 11:51 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I think we have to be a little forgiving when it comes to the NFL resume for any coach. It's a different game and a different process to acquire talent.

Saban was an average NFL head coach, but look at what he's done in college.

Plenty of guys have successful college careers and flame out in the NFL. It's just a different bird. I would be more concerned if a guy's performance reflected incompetence rather than inadequacy...take Charlie Weis for example.

Saban was overruled on Drew Brees and had to settle for Daunte Culpepper as his QB.

I don't think anyone want Sark to fail and it appears that with talented players he can run a dynamic offense. If he were taking a lower profile job I might be more bullish on his prospects, but instead he chose Texas. Between recruiting and the BMD's, he'll have to entrust most of the coaching duties to his assistances.

(01-04-2021 09:53 AM)kevinwmsn Wrote:  If Saban would have allowed to have Drew Brees instead of Dante Culpepper things would have been different. If you don't have a qb you are not going to have much success.

Granted...Saban likely would have been more successful with Drew Brees.

Consider also that Matt Ryan's stats aren't any better since Sark was fired from the Falcons. Ryan had some career highs in 2016 which perhaps makes Sark's performance look worse than it was when he took over the OC duties the following season.

Falcons were the 10th rated offense in 2018, 15th rated in 2017. That was under Sark. After he was fired, they were 13th in 2019 and the 16th this year.

Before Sark took over, they were the top ranked offense in 2016, but they were the 21st in 2015...Shanahan was the OC in 2015 as well, but gets credit for a big year from Matt Ryan during the 2016 season which appears to be an aberration.

In 2014, the Falcons were 12th under Dirk Koetter and 20th in 2013.

Most years, looks like they are middle of the pack with Matt Ryan regardless of who the OC is.
01-04-2021 12:32 PM
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Post: #52
RE: Texas Shocker
I don't understand the people who think Herman didn't get a fair shake or needed another season. He brought in a jag staff when he was given the checkbook for his initial staff.. game one vs MD in 2017 looked a lot like game #2 in 2020 despite the win.

Yes he recruited well, and I thank him for getting UT back to the 5th rated roster based on 247 composite. However with that, he has never been able to beat teams he has no business losing to (something he also did at UH) despite those teams have less than a 3rd of the talent Texas had.

As much as I enjoyed him showing up Drew Locke in his first bowl game for Texas, it was a very poor look for him. Then he decides to do a double bird on NSD on LHN.. again another poor look. He alienated boosters to the point that NONE had his back.. Imagine..Shaka Smart, for the struggles he's had with the basketball team..has 2 prominent Boosters defending him, which in part saved him last season (along with Covid).

And lastly, recruiting. People will hail Herman as a man who defended his players this summer and stood up for them with the EOT debacle.. Yet these same players are the ones who have told potential grad transfers not to come as well other '21 and '22 recruits. Herman is the only coach at Texas that has lost triple legacy bros, which happen to be some of the best if not the best OL the state has produced since Greg Little.

Had he stayed, recruiting for 22 would essentially have been another repeat, but worse with the transition class of '21. He would again lose to an unranked team and the fanbase would be wanting him gone ASAP.

And that still almost happened.. CDC and the search team (Prez and Eltife) only had one name in mind..Urban and when they got the hard NO twice, they were set to let Herman have another run in '21. But they caught wind of Tom reaching out to SCe for that job and once that happened, it was over. They then looked at multiple coaches and landed Sark.

As far as Sark goes, he is known as an offensive coach, QB whisperer. I'm excited for change and even more excited about his potential staff he will bring to Austin. The current roster and the players who just signed a couple weeks ago seem to be excited as well. Sark may not be the answer long term, however we all know Herman sure as hell wasn't.
01-04-2021 02:43 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Texas Shocker
(01-04-2021 02:43 PM)Thiefery Wrote:  However with that, he has never been able to beat teams he has no business losing to (something he also did at UH) despite those teams have less than a 3rd of the talent Texas had.


Had he stayed, recruiting for 22 would essentially have been another repeat, but worse with the transition class of '21. He would again lose to an unranked team and the fanbase would be wanting him gone ASAP.

Hmmmm. Texas lost to ISU, OU and TCU. ISU and OU are ranked but the other school isn't. I wonder who the Longhorn fanbase can't stand losing to...

So I ventured over to surlyhorns and in the "Expectations for Sark" thread, virtually the unanimous comment was "for a start, beat TCU." LOL.

For the record, TCU is 7-2 against UT in the Big12, is the team that has beaten the Longhorns the most times in Austin (more than A&M despite many more games and because they always play OU in Dallas). Maybe, instead of demeaning and ignoring us, UT fans are beginning to see us as a rival. I doubt it though. After "finishing Strong," we Frog fans say "So long to Mensa" and hello to "Cutty Sark." Best of luck!
01-04-2021 04:19 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Texas Shocker
(01-02-2021 12:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  They're paying how big of a buyout to Herman so they can hire the guy Washington fans called "Seven Win Sark"?

Sark took a team that was 0-12 before he arrived and led them to 8-4 prior to heading to LA.

He then had one full year at USC where only a loss to #14 UCLA was by more than a single possession in a 9-4 year.
The next year his personal demons off the field got him.

As a Baylor fan I liked my odds against Bevo better if they kept Herman. TH was a good gameday coach but was not able to elevate the roster. Closed decently in recruiting but far too often went after the guys that weren't getting UT to the next level. His lack of experience building a roster at UH (won with Levine's players) showed.

Sark runs arguably as good of an offense as anyone, along with Kiffin made Bama MUCH deadlier than the early 2000's offenses, has experience recruiting to blue bloods as HC at USC & OC for both SC & Bama. Also taking UW from doormat to solid is more proof of building than Tom had.

Certainly not the hire that Urban Meyer would have been if they'd pulled it off but likely an upgrade.
01-04-2021 04:54 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Texas Shocker
Washington 5-7, 7-6, 7-6, 7-6, 8-4
USC 9-4, 3-2
Conference record 31-26

I am totally unimpressed.

And Texas is not a rebuilding job. It was when Hermann took over. It was the worst 3 year period in Texas since the 1930s.
01-04-2021 05:39 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Texas Shocker
(01-04-2021 02:43 PM)Thiefery Wrote:  .

And that still almost happened.. CDC and the search team (Prez and Eltife) only had one name in mind..Urban and when they got the hard NO twice, they were set to let Herman have another run in '21. But they caught wind of Tom reaching out to SCe for that job and once that happened, it was over. They then looked at multiple coaches and landed Sark.

Out of curiosity, did Texas reach out to Briles? Who were the other coaches they reached out to?
01-04-2021 09:01 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Texas Shocker
(01-04-2021 09:01 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(01-04-2021 02:43 PM)Thiefery Wrote:  .

And that still almost happened.. CDC and the search team (Prez and Eltife) only had one name in mind..Urban and when they got the hard NO twice, they were set to let Herman have another run in '21. But they caught wind of Tom reaching out to SCe for that job and once that happened, it was over. They then looked at multiple coaches and landed Sark.

Out of curiosity, did Texas reach out to Briles? Who were the other coaches they reached out to?
I think Briles is close to nuclear right now. I don't think he ever coaches again. Remember he's now 65 years old believe it or not.
01-04-2021 09:13 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Texas Shocker
(01-04-2021 02:43 PM)Thiefery Wrote:  CDC and the search team (Prez and Eltife) only had one name in mind..Urban and when they got the hard NO twice, they were set to let Herman have another run in '21. But they caught wind of Tom reaching out to SCe for that job and once that happened, it was over.

Herman also reached out to Arizona during their search and suggested they should wait to make a hire because he "might" be available. He knew UT was just keeping him on until after signing day.
01-04-2021 10:04 PM
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Post: #59
RE: Texas Shocker
(01-04-2021 10:04 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-04-2021 02:43 PM)Thiefery Wrote:  CDC and the search team (Prez and Eltife) only had one name in mind..Urban and when they got the hard NO twice, they were set to let Herman have another run in '21. But they caught wind of Tom reaching out to SCe for that job and once that happened, it was over.

Herman also reached out to Arizona during their search and suggested they should wait to make a hire because he "might" be available. He knew UT was just keeping him on until after signing day.

If that's real, they fired him for doing what they were doing? They were shopping around for his replacement and so he was looking to see where he might go if they fired him?
01-04-2021 10:52 PM
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Post: #60
RE: Texas Shocker
Getting Washington to 9-4 in 5 years was not the 13th Labor of Hercules. Sure, they had an 0-12 season the year before Sark was hired. But they were only 8 years removed from winning the Rose Bowl and 17 years removed from winning a national title.

And it's not like fan support had disappeared. Even in the 0-12 season, Washington was 29th in the nation in attendance.

Sark never finished better than 5-4 in the Pac in 5 seasons at Washington.
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2021 12:16 AM by Captain Bearcat.)
01-04-2021 10:58 PM
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