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State of Athletics Under Wood
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Chillie Willie Offline
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Post: #41
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
(01-05-2021 02:45 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(01-05-2021 02:25 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-05-2021 02:06 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(01-05-2021 01:25 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  FWIW, athletes were granted an extra year. I don't think we will be bad off next year either way, but if CUrry comes back, I think the team will be stronger (with or without Jones). Especially if Wade is able to return to 75% of his former self.

Why do you think we will be any better next year if we retain Jones? All schools return all their players. I agree the addition of Wade will help, but the problems with this squad go far beyond not having Jason. I just see next season as a repeat of this one. Especially considering most other team's players see, to improve at a faster rate than Jeff's do. We may be better, but so will everyone else. Our record may be worse. I would love seeing how another coach would do with these players since I think we do have some talent. Curry, Ezikpe, Reece, Trice, Oliver, Hunter and Wade is (or should be) a formidable top 7 players.

Because I don't think other teams have players develop faster than us and I don't agree about your opinion of Jones.

Im not arguing whether we should keep him or get rid of him, but why is Jones' record so good compared to the other CUSA coaches if they are so much better? Why have we consistently (not every year) been at the top of the conference if other coaches are so much better?

Fair enough. Id argue our record is good against CUSA, because most of CUSA sucks in basketball. If a team doesnt finish in the top 3 in this league, they probably aren't very good. (we're at 6th place last I looked) And even if they are good enough to finish in the #2 or #3 spot, they apparently aren't good enough to get an NCAA or NIT invite. Play a top 100 schedule and get 22-23 wins. Then we'll be talking. We have very few signature wins over the last 6 or 7 seasons (there are a couple). And beating the little sisters of the poor doesnt cut it. When it comes to basketball, I expect ODU to have some national relevance. (Football is a different story. We still have to pay our dues there. Id be happy with an east division CUSA title for now)

We are actually tied for first in CUSA East (with 4 other teams at 1-1).
01-05-2021 02:57 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #42
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
(01-05-2021 02:25 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-05-2021 02:06 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(01-05-2021 01:25 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  FWIW, athletes were granted an extra year. I don't think we will be bad off next year either way, but if CUrry comes back, I think the team will be stronger (with or without Jones). Especially if Wade is able to return to 75% of his former self.

Why do you think we will be any better next year if we retain Jones? All schools return all their players. I agree the addition of Wade will help, but the problems with this squad go far beyond not having Jason. I just see next season as a repeat of this one. Especially considering most other team's players see, to improve at a faster rate than Jeff's do. We may be better, but so will everyone else. Our record may be worse. I would love seeing how another coach would do with these players since I think we do have some talent. Curry, Ezikpe, Reece, Trice, Oliver, Hunter and Wade is (or should be) a formidable top 7 players.

Because I don't think other teams have players develop faster than us and I don't agree about your opinion of Jones.

Im not arguing whether we should keep him or get rid of him, but why is Jones' record so good compared to the other CUSA coaches if they are so much better? Why have we consistently (not every year) been at the top of the conference if other coaches are so much better?

Because our program has inherent advantages that make it nearly impossible for most of the teams in CUSA to compete at a higher level than ODU over a period of time.
01-05-2021 03:03 PM
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Old Dom Swag Offline
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Post: #43
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
He's been here for 10 full years, let's compare to the last 10 years of the previous admin (most are 9 seasons since Fall got cancelled) based on the sports listed in the OP

Women's Field Hockey

Selig
2019 11-7
2018 10-7
2017 8-10
2016 7-10
2015 9-10
2014 11-8
2013 13-8
2012 15-6
2011 22-3
Total Record: 107-69

Jarrett:
2010 13-11
2009 9-11
2008 10-13
2007 12-10
2006 19-4
2005 19-6
2004 13-8
2003 14-10
2002 21-4
Total Record: 130-77

Mens Soccer

Selig:
2019: 3-11-1
2018: 11-5-2
2017: 13-6-2
2016: 6-9-2
2015: 8-5-3
2014: 13-7-1
2013: 11-6-1
2012: 11-3-3
2011: 12-6-2
Total Record - 88-58-17

Jarrett:
2010: 10-7-2
2009: 11-5-2
2008: 9-7-3
2007: 14-7-3
2006: 14-6-2
2005: 15-4-2
2004: 13-6-2
2003: 15-4-1
2002: 10-9-4
Total Record - 111-55-21

Baseball
Selig:
2020: 12-4 (shortened season)
2019: 35-21
2018: 15-37
2017: 37-21
2016: 32-24
2015: 27-29
2014: 36-26
2013: 30-24
2012: 19-34
2011: 30-26
Total Record: 273-246

Jarrett:
2010: 24-30
2009: 22-27
2008: 25-27
2007: 35-24
2006: 39-17
2005: 22-33
2004: 26-28
2003: 16-33
2002: 26-27
2001: 19-37
Total Record: 254-283

Women's Basketball (season end is the year I use)
Selig
2020: 24-6
2019: 21-11
2018: 8-23
2017: 17-14
2016: 17-17
2015: 21-13
2014: 18-16
2013: 19-12
2012: 11-21
2011: 20-11
Total Record: 176-134

Jarrett:
2010: 19-14
2009: 17-13
2008: 31-5
2007: 24-9
2006: 22-9
2005: 22-9
2004: 25-7
2003: 22-11
2002: 28-6
2001: 21-9
Total Record: 231-92

Men's Basketball (season end is the year I use)
Selig
2020: 13-19
2019: 26-9
2018: 25-7
2017: 19-12
2016: 25-13
2015: 27-8
2014: 18-18
2013: 5-25
2012: 22-14
2011: 27-7
Total Record: 207-132

Jarrett
2010: 27-9
2009: 25-10
2008: 18-16
2007: 24-9
2006: 24-10
2005: 28-6
2004: 17-12
2003: 12-15
2002: 13-16
2001: 13-18
Total Record: 201-121

Football - N/A, can't compare
01-05-2021 06:05 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
(01-05-2021 06:05 PM)Old Dom Swag Wrote:  He's been here for 10 full years, let's compare to the last 10 years of the previous admin (most are 9 seasons since Fall got cancelled) based on the sports listed in the OP

Women's Field Hockey

Selig
2019 11-7
2018 10-7
2017 8-10
2016 7-10
2015 9-10
2014 11-8
2013 13-8
2012 15-6
2011 22-3
Total Record: 107-69 .607

Jarrett:
2010 13-11
2009 9-11
2008 10-13
2007 12-10
2006 19-4
2005 19-6
2004 13-8
2003 14-10
2002 21-4
Total Record: 130-77 .628

Mens Soccer

Selig:
2019: 3-11-1
2018: 11-5-2
2017: 13-6-2
2016: 6-9-2
2015: 8-5-3
2014: 13-7-1
2013: 11-6-1
2012: 11-3-3
2011: 12-6-2
Total Record - 88-58-17 .615

Jarrett:
2010: 10-7-2
2009: 11-5-2
2008: 9-7-3
2007: 14-7-3
2006: 14-6-2
2005: 15-4-2
2004: 13-6-2
2003: 15-4-1
2002: 10-9-4
Total Record - 111-55-21 .668
[/b][/i]

Baseball
Selig:
2020: 12-4 (shortened season)
2019: 35-21
2018: 15-37
2017: 37-21
2016: 32-24
2015: 27-29
2014: 36-26
2013: 30-24
2012: 19-34
2011: 30-26
Total Record: 273-246 .526

Jarrett:
2010: 24-30
2009: 22-27
2008: 25-27
2007: 35-24
2006: 39-17
2005: 22-33
2004: 26-28
2003: 16-33
2002: 26-27
2001: 19-37
Total Record: 254-283 .472

Women's Basketball (season end is the year I use)
Selig
2020: 24-6
2019: 21-11
2018: 8-23
2017: 17-14
2016: 17-17
2015: 21-13
2014: 18-16
2013: 19-12
2012: 11-21
2011: 20-11
Total Record: 176-134 .568

Jarrett:
2010: 19-14
2009: 17-13
2008: 31-5
2007: 24-9
2006: 22-9
2005: 22-9
2004: 25-7
2003: 22-11
2002: 28-6
2001: 21-9
[b]Total Record: 231-92
.715

Men's Basketball (season end is the year I use)
Selig
2020: 13-19
2019: 26-9
2018: 25-7
2017: 19-12
2016: 25-13
2015: 27-8
2014: 18-18
2013: 5-25
2012: 22-14
2011: 27-7
Total Record: 207-132 .610

Jarrett
2010: 27-9
2009: 25-10
2008: 18-16
2007: 24-9
2006: 24-10
2005: 28-6
2004: 17-12
2003: 12-15
2002: 13-16
2001: 13-18
Total Record: 201-121 .624

Football - N/A, can't compare

So, far from the dumpster fire that has been alleged, looking at the winning percentages, there is not a lot of difference across the above sports. except for baseball and WBB. 2019 skewed the Men's Soccer but otherwise that is close as well.

The baseball stat actually favors the Selig era.

WBB was already showing signs of stress under Jarrett, the major issue being being overseas recruiting. Admittedly the KB hire was a disappointment, but Selig's subsequent WBB hires seem to have been a successes, and the football (Rahne) hire may be a home run.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2021 12:21 AM by ODUalum78.)
01-05-2021 11:22 PM
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ODUwildman Offline
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Post: #45
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
If possible, you have to consider the funding the teams have had. Did the previous administrations teams do more with less? If there's been a rise in facilities and fundraising, the programs now had much more resources and, dare I say, a much more attractive campus to recruit and draw students in during the first 10 of Selig and the last 10 of Jarrett. Having moved away in 2005 and visiting a few times a year, I don't have a concrete grasp on the timeline.

I'll add wrestling, with one thing to consider, too. The sport was only partially funded and had no full-time assistant coach until Steve Martin's hiring in 2004-05.

2010 10-5-1
2009 17-6-0
2008 17-3-0
2007 12-7-0
2006 11-6-1 (Program gets fully funded at 9.9 for first time)
2005 12-5-0 (Martin first year)
2004 7-12-0 (Gray Simons)
2003 6-10-0 (Gray Simons)
2002 6-9-0 (Gray Simons)
Total 98-63-2 .601

2020 10-9-0
2019 9-7-0
2018 9-9-0
2017 7-10-0
2016 6-13-0
2015 13-5-0
2014 8-10-0
2013 11-7-0
2012 13-10-0
2011 7-12-1
Total 93-92-1 .500

Since isn't a dual championship sport, the measure is usually weighed in NCAA Qualifiers and All-Americans as its defined by the NCAA as an individual sport. ODU was 26-56 vs. Power 5 schools since Martin was hired. Team was routinely ranked in the dual meet Coaches Poll from 2008-2013, 2015-16 and the first two weeks of 2019-20. The move to the MAC came in 2015 due to the all-sports move to CUSA, giving ODU a schedule featuring perennially ranked teams like Central Michigan, Missouri and Northern Iowa on the regular.

2010 3-1
2009 5-1
2008 6-1
2007 2-0
2006 2-0
2005 1-0
2004 1-0
2003 0-0
2002 1-0
Quals/AA 21-3

2020 4-2
2019 3-1
2018 4-0
2017 5-1
2016 3-1
2015 7-2
2014 6-1
2013 4-0
2012 7-0
2011 3-1
Quals/AA 46-9
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2021 12:53 AM by ODUwildman.)
01-06-2021 12:47 AM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
(01-06-2021 12:47 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  If possible, you have to consider the funding the teams have had. Did the previous administrations teams do more with less? If there's been a rise in facilities and fundraising, the programs now had much more resources and, dare I say, a much more attractive campus to recruit and draw students in during the first 10 of Selig and the last 10 of Jarrett. Having moved away in 2005 and visiting a few times a year, I don't have a concrete grasp on the timeline.

I'll add wrestling, with one thing to consider, too. The sport was only partially funded and had no full-time assistant coach until Steve Martin's hiring in 2004-05.

2010 10-5-1
2009 17-6-0
2008 17-3-0
2007 12-7-0
2006 11-6-1 (Program gets fully funded at 9.9 for first time)
2005 12-5-0 (Martin first year)
2004 7-12-0 (Gray Simons)
2003 6-10-0 (Gray Simons)
2002 6-9-0 (Gray Simons)
Total 98-63-2 .601

2020 10-9-0
2019 9-7-0
2018 9-9-0
2017 7-10-0
2016 6-13-0
2015 13-5-0
2014 8-10-0
2013 11-7-0
2012 13-10-0
2011 7-12-1
Total 93-92-1 .500

Since isn't a dual championship sport, the measure is usually weighed in NCAA Qualifiers and All-Americans as its defined by the NCAA as an individual sport. ODU was 26-56 vs. Power 5 schools since Martin was hired. Team was routinely ranked in the dual meet Coaches Poll from 2008-2013, 2015-16 and the first two weeks of 2019-20. The move to the MAC came in 2015 due to the all-sports move to CUSA, giving ODU a schedule featuring perennially ranked teams like Central Michigan, Missouri and Northern Iowa on the regular.

2010 3-1
2009 5-1
2008 6-1
2007 2-0
2006 2-0
2005 1-0
2004 1-0
2003 0-0
2002 1-0
Quals/AA 21-3

2020 4-2
2019 3-1
2018 4-0
2017 5-1
2016 3-1
2015 7-2
2014 6-1
2013 4-0
2012 7-0
2011 3-1
Quals/AA 46-9

Those are fair points.
With respect to campus, facilities, and funding, I am not sure how we stacked up to our recruiting competition in those days. That would be a better metric than comparing ODU then to ODU now, I would think.

Did not wrestling continue to improve as far as University support under Selig? You are in a far better position to answer that than I am.
In any event the dropping of wrestling can best be described as devastating, IMO.
01-06-2021 01:14 AM
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ODUwildman Offline
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Post: #47
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
Hard for me to have an unbiased opinion on the dedication and support of the program in hindsight. Jarrett fully funded the program after Gray's retirement. The absolute worst thing for ODU's wrestling budget was moving the "entire" athletics program to CUSA, leaving ODU in the MAC for wrestling, the only viable alternative and path to the NCAA championships individually.

I use entire in quotes because it displaced a number of our sports who already had conference sponsorship in the CAA. I'd like to see the actual expenses and successes of our sports since moving to that **** conference. The team with the most team championships in school history is an affiliate. Probably not a popular opinion here, but if we're still FCS, we still have a full football stadium and we still have a nationally viable wrestling program. And every team isn't losing their ass on travel.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2021 01:38 AM by ODUwildman.)
01-06-2021 01:36 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #48
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
(01-06-2021 01:36 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  Hard for me to have an unbiased opinion on the dedication and support of the program in hindsight. Jarrett fully funded the program after Gray's retirement. The absolute worst thing for ODU's wrestling budget was moving the "entire" athletics program to CUSA, leaving ODU in the MAC for wrestling, the only viable alternative and path to the NCAA championships individually.

I use entire in quotes because it displaced a number of our sports who already had conference sponsorship in the CAA. I'd like to see the actual expenses and successes of our sports since moving to that **** conference. The team with the most team championships in school history is an affiliate. Probably not a popular opinion here, but if we're still FCS, we still have a full football stadium and we still have a nationally viable wrestling program. And every team isn't losing their ass on travel.

And basketball is probably no worse off than it is now. Only with better rivalries and games you can get to as a fan. (but you'd have to, because their TV package is awful awful awful) The only teams better off in CUSA are soccer and baseball.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2021 09:42 AM by monarx.)
01-06-2021 09:42 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #49
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
(01-06-2021 09:42 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 01:36 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  Hard for me to have an unbiased opinion on the dedication and support of the program in hindsight. Jarrett fully funded the program after Gray's retirement. The absolute worst thing for ODU's wrestling budget was moving the "entire" athletics program to CUSA, leaving ODU in the MAC for wrestling, the only viable alternative and path to the NCAA championships individually.

I use entire in quotes because it displaced a number of our sports who already had conference sponsorship in the CAA. I'd like to see the actual expenses and successes of our sports since moving to that **** conference. The team with the most team championships in school history is an affiliate. Probably not a popular opinion here, but if we're still FCS, we still have a full football stadium and we still have a nationally viable wrestling program. And every team isn't losing their ass on travel.

And basketball is probably no worse off than it is now. Only with better rivalries and games you can get to as a fan. (but you'd have to, because their TV package is awful awful awful) The only teams better off in CUSA are soccer and baseball.

Not sure that basketball would be a big difference either way. CUSA has surpassed CAA but it comes with increased travel. And CAA now only has 2 teams I would care about; JMU and W&M, which we play once a year now instead of twice that would be in conference.

Obviously Football is way better off in CUSA than CAA. And I don't think its safe to assume we would have more fans in the stands with CAA football.
01-06-2021 09:48 AM
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ODUwildman Offline
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Post: #50
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
(01-06-2021 09:48 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Obviously Football is way better off in CUSA than CAA. And I don't think its safe to assume we would have more fans in the stands with CAA football.

We sold out every game in FCS. I think we'd still be in the top 5-10 nationally if still in FCS and winning keeps butts in the seats. Sure, FBS might be better quality of football and a higher level of player, but in Hampton Roads, you don't get people in the stands if you don't win.

Not a great comparison, but level-wise, we saw this with the Admirals. They were stuffing Scope in one of the lower levels of hockey when winning. The attendance drain was significant with the move to the AHL. Higher level hockey, fewer seasons where it was the place to be due to winning. Ticket prices also impacted this to some degree.

If still FCS, I don't think the winning subsides nearly as much. Still looking at conference championships and runs against schools we have rivalries with. Are you arguing with your coworker from North Texas or your coworker from William & Mary?

With us, it's about winning and losing, not about the level of play. I can't validate this with anything concrete, but I believe a 5-5 FCS team vs. W&M would outdraw a 5-5 FBS team vs. Rice at Ballard. Winning, Local Interest and then Quality of play are the three factors that, in my experience, impact ODU attendance across all sports.
01-06-2021 10:35 AM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #51
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
I would be more interested in seeing Conference Championships than W/L records. Records are affected by many things. Basketball (men and women), for example, are playing schedules that pale in comparison to the competition that they played in the past, while baseball and soccer are likely playing schedules that are significantly more difficult than they used to be. At the end of the day, conference championships and NCAAT/bowl appearances are all that matter at our level when evaluating success on the field/court.
01-06-2021 10:35 AM
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Post: #52
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
(01-06-2021 10:35 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 09:48 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Obviously Football is way better off in CUSA than CAA. And I don't think its safe to assume we would have more fans in the stands with CAA football.
With us, it's about winning and losing, not about the level of play. I can't validate this with anything concrete, but I believe a 5-5 FCS team vs. W&M would outdraw a 5-5 FBS team vs. Rice at Ballard. Winning, Local Interest and then Quality of play are the three factors that, in my experience, impact ODU attendance across all sports.

This is spot on.
01-06-2021 10:38 AM
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ODUwildman Offline
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Post: #53
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
(01-06-2021 10:35 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I would be more interested in seeing Conference Championships than W/L records. Records are affected by many things. Basketball (men and women), for example, are playing schedules that pale in comparison to the competition that they played in the past, while baseball and soccer are likely playing schedules that are significantly more difficult than they used to be. At the end of the day, conference championships and NCAAT/bowl appearances are all that matter at our level when evaluating success on the field/court.

One conference title that was sacrificed: wrestling would have won the CAA in 2013, but the move to CUSA made the team ineligible for the conference title. ODU and Mason leaving the CAA effectively was the death knell for the conference to sponsor the sport, too. In the MAC, ODU was behind Missouri, a fully funded Power 5 that had to find a home after it left the Big 12. No matter how good ODU was funded, we'd never beat Missouri out for a conference title.
01-06-2021 10:40 AM
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Mo Blue Den You Offline
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Post: #54
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
(01-06-2021 09:48 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 09:42 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 01:36 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  Hard for me to have an unbiased opinion on the dedication and support of the program in hindsight. Jarrett fully funded the program after Gray's retirement. The absolute worst thing for ODU's wrestling budget was moving the "entire" athletics program to CUSA, leaving ODU in the MAC for wrestling, the only viable alternative and path to the NCAA championships individually.

I use entire in quotes because it displaced a number of our sports who already had conference sponsorship in the CAA. I'd like to see the actual expenses and successes of our sports since moving to that **** conference. The team with the most team championships in school history is an affiliate. Probably not a popular opinion here, but if we're still FCS, we still have a full football stadium and we still have a nationally viable wrestling program. And every team isn't losing their ass on travel.

And basketball is probably no worse off than it is now. Only with better rivalries and games you can get to as a fan. (but you'd have to, because their TV package is awful awful awful) The only teams better off in CUSA are soccer and baseball.

Not sure that basketball would be a big difference either way. CUSA has surpassed CAA but it comes with increased travel. And CAA now only has 2 teams I would care about; JMU and W&M, which we play once a year now instead of twice that would be in conference.

Obviously Football is way better off in CUSA than CAA. And I don't think its safe to assume we would have more fans in the stands with CAA football.

Why not? Do you have more friends that went to CUSA member schools over Colonial schools? More fans would absolutely be in the stands if for no other reason but being a 1.5 hour roadie. Its reasonable to say we all know people who went to W&M, JMU or Richmond which ignited further competition between fans and friends.

When you can talk **** to friends you know went to a school you're Alma is playing, its that much more fun than some random Joe in Texas thru the internet on a sports forum.
01-06-2021 10:42 AM
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Post: #55
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
(01-06-2021 10:38 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 10:35 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 09:48 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Obviously Football is way better off in CUSA than CAA. And I don't think its safe to assume we would have more fans in the stands with CAA football.
With us, it's about winning and losing, not about the level of play. I can't validate this with anything concrete, but I believe a 5-5 FCS team vs. W&M would outdraw a 5-5 FBS team vs. Rice at Ballard. Winning, Local Interest and then Quality of play are the three factors that, in my experience, impact ODU attendance across all sports.

This is spot on.

I don't think this would be the case. Obviously there is no way to know, but we were pretty bad for the most part after TH left.

Also, that home VT game did more for our FB program than anything we'd every accomplish in FCS. That includes an NCAA title (I agree that sounds kind of ridiculous). We had a solid window where we were contenders for one, too and blew it because we couldn't stop the triple option.
01-06-2021 11:08 AM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #56
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
(01-06-2021 11:08 AM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 10:38 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 10:35 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 09:48 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Obviously Football is way better off in CUSA than CAA. And I don't think its safe to assume we would have more fans in the stands with CAA football.
With us, it's about winning and losing, not about the level of play. I can't validate this with anything concrete, but I believe a 5-5 FCS team vs. W&M would outdraw a 5-5 FBS team vs. Rice at Ballard. Winning, Local Interest and then Quality of play are the three factors that, in my experience, impact ODU attendance across all sports.

This is spot on.

I don't think this would be the case. Obviously there is no way to know, but we were pretty bad for the most part after TH left.

Also, that home VT game did more for our FB program than anything we'd every accomplish in FCS. That includes an NCAA title (I agree that sounds kind of ridiculous). We had a solid window where we were contenders for one, too and blew it because we couldn't stop the triple option.

What exactly did that VT win do for our program? It didn't put fans in the stands, we had progressively worse turnouts for the remainder of that season through the following season. It didn't help recruiting, BW pretty much tanked on the recruiting front in the classes following that game. It didn't put us on the football map, nobody outside of ODU and VT, and maybe JMU fans even knows it happened. If we had followed that win with a 10 win season, maybe it would have made a difference, but as it stands, it's just a game that happened, and it has not affected the trajectory of ODU sports one bit, other than it may have saved BW's job for one more season, which did more harm than good.
01-06-2021 11:26 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #57
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
(01-06-2021 10:35 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 09:48 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Obviously Football is way better off in CUSA than CAA. And I don't think its safe to assume we would have more fans in the stands with CAA football.

We sold out every game in FCS. I think we'd still be in the top 5-10 nationally if still in FCS and winning keeps butts in the seats. Sure, FBS might be better quality of football and a higher level of player, but in Hampton Roads, you don't get people in the stands if you don't win.

Not a great comparison, but level-wise, we saw this with the Admirals. They were stuffing Scope in one of the lower levels of hockey when winning. The attendance drain was significant with the move to the AHL. Higher level hockey, fewer seasons where it was the place to be due to winning. Ticket prices also impacted this to some degree.

If still FCS, I don't think the winning subsides nearly as much. Still looking at conference championships and runs against schools we have rivalries with. Are you arguing with your coworker from North Texas or your coworker from William & Mary?

With us, it's about winning and losing, not about the level of play. I can't validate this with anything concrete, but I believe a 5-5 FCS team vs. W&M would outdraw a 5-5 FBS team vs. Rice at Ballard. Winning, Local Interest and then Quality of play are the three factors that, in my experience, impact ODU attendance across all sports.

Things were new in FCS. Its not uncommon for teams to draw well at the early stages of a new program or a new stadium.

We don't know how much winning would have continued but I think its safe to assume we could have kept up a good program.

Yes, W&M and JMU fans are fun to "debate" with but that is only 2 of the schools in the conference (maybe Richmond, but I don't know any Richmond football fans). Im not doing that with any Albany, Delaware, Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Stony Boork, Villanova, Elon is a big yawn from me. And we all have different experiences but I could never convince friends to go to an ODU game vs. Delaware (for example).

Who are you defining as what it matters to (used "us"). While I know plenty that dont care about UTEP, but many feel hatred for teams like FAU, MTSU, etc....teams that they recongnize and see on TV.

I know that if we were to hypothetcially drop back down to CAA, I would give up my season tickets. While, i enjoy going to the games, I have to make some sacrifices to do so. Maybe I'm willing to make those sacrifices vs. JMU but Im not doing so vs. Elon and that group. I just don't have any interest in FCS football anymore and I don't think I'm alone in that regard. FBS football in interesting.

I certainly have more interest in the MTSU, WKY, FAUs of the world than I do the Stony Brooks of the world. I think there is a reason most fans (it seems like most) of JMU would take playing in FBS than FCS.
01-06-2021 11:28 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #58
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
(01-06-2021 11:26 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 11:08 AM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 10:38 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 10:35 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 09:48 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Obviously Football is way better off in CUSA than CAA. And I don't think its safe to assume we would have more fans in the stands with CAA football.
With us, it's about winning and losing, not about the level of play. I can't validate this with anything concrete, but I believe a 5-5 FCS team vs. W&M would outdraw a 5-5 FBS team vs. Rice at Ballard. Winning, Local Interest and then Quality of play are the three factors that, in my experience, impact ODU attendance across all sports.

This is spot on.

I don't think this would be the case. Obviously there is no way to know, but we were pretty bad for the most part after TH left.

Also, that home VT game did more for our FB program than anything we'd every accomplish in FCS. That includes an NCAA title (I agree that sounds kind of ridiculous). We had a solid window where we were contenders for one, too and blew it because we couldn't stop the triple option.

What exactly did that VT win do for our program? It didn't put fans in the stands, we had progressively worse turnouts for the remainder of that season through the following season. It didn't help recruiting, BW pretty much tanked on the recruiting front in the classes following that game. It didn't put us on the football map, nobody outside of ODU and VT, and maybe JMU fans even knows it happened. If we had followed that win with a 10 win season, maybe it would have made a difference, but as it stands, it's just a game that happened, and it has not affected the trajectory of ODU sports one bit, other than it may have saved BW's job for one more season, which did more harm than good.

It made us a heck of a lot of money.

Im pretty sure the VT game was packed so more fans in the stands.

They pretty much said that game helped with recruiting as many of the future recruits were in the stands and they believed that helped.

Its certainly not true that no one knows ODU beat VT. Heck, it was even brought up in the WFT game vs. Carolina (though the announcer thought Heinicke was at QB). People still compare G5 wins over P5 to "like ODU over VT."
01-06-2021 11:32 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #59
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
(01-06-2021 10:35 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 09:48 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Obviously Football is way better off in CUSA than CAA. And I don't think its safe to assume we would have more fans in the stands with CAA football.

We sold out every game in FCS. I think we'd still be in the top 5-10 nationally if still in FCS and winning keeps butts in the seats. Sure, FBS might be better quality of football and a higher level of player, but in Hampton Roads, you don't get people in the stands if you don't win.

Not a great comparison, but level-wise, we saw this with the Admirals. They were stuffing Scope in one of the lower levels of hockey when winning. The attendance drain was significant with the move to the AHL. Higher level hockey, fewer seasons where it was the place to be due to winning. Ticket prices also impacted this to some degree.

If still FCS, I don't think the winning subsides nearly as much. Still looking at conference championships and runs against schools we have rivalries with. Are you arguing with your coworker from North Texas or your coworker from William & Mary?

With us, it's about winning and losing, not about the level of play. I can't validate this with anything concrete, but I believe a 5-5 FCS team vs. W&M would outdraw a 5-5 FBS team vs. Rice at Ballard. Winning, Local Interest and then Quality of play are the three factors that, in my experience, impact ODU attendance across all sports.

For every JMU or W&M grad I know (gotta be at least 5 that i know care about those sports), there are hundreds of VT fans I know. And UVA. And UNC. And NC State.
01-06-2021 11:34 AM
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ODUwildman Offline
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Post: #60
RE: State of Athletics Under Wood
(01-06-2021 11:34 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 10:35 AM)ODUwildman Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 09:48 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Obviously Football is way better off in CUSA than CAA. And I don't think its safe to assume we would have more fans in the stands with CAA football.

We sold out every game in FCS. I think we'd still be in the top 5-10 nationally if still in FCS and winning keeps butts in the seats. Sure, FBS might be better quality of football and a higher level of player, but in Hampton Roads, you don't get people in the stands if you don't win.

Not a great comparison, but level-wise, we saw this with the Admirals. They were stuffing Scope in one of the lower levels of hockey when winning. The attendance drain was significant with the move to the AHL. Higher level hockey, fewer seasons where it was the place to be due to winning. Ticket prices also impacted this to some degree.

If still FCS, I don't think the winning subsides nearly as much. Still looking at conference championships and runs against schools we have rivalries with. Are you arguing with your coworker from North Texas or your coworker from William & Mary?

With us, it's about winning and losing, not about the level of play. I can't validate this with anything concrete, but I believe a 5-5 FCS team vs. W&M would outdraw a 5-5 FBS team vs. Rice at Ballard. Winning, Local Interest and then Quality of play are the three factors that, in my experience, impact ODU attendance across all sports.

For every JMU or W&M grad I know (gotta be at least 5 that i know care about those sports), there are hundreds of VT fans I know. And UVA. And UNC. And NC State.

Virginia Tech game would have been full no matter what. Still selling out games 9 years after the new has worn off was about winning.

JMU beat VT when it was FCS. Only people who remember that are JMU fans and VT fans who point to losses to ODU, Liberty and JMU as a problem with its program. VT, UVA, UNC and NC State don't see us as contemporaries or rivals. We get a shot at those teams on a rotating basis once a year, maybe more if teams need the easy W and we need a money game.

We can turn the discussion on that too. Who was Liberty's first FBS win as an FBS school? Yup. For that VT win, we've got 52-10 against one of the most reviled schools in the country.

You can't ride one good win that was statistically improbable as the life blood of the program. "Well, we beat VT"

"Well, we're 1-11"

Didn't have a problem selling out games at the FCS level. because WINNING.
01-06-2021 11:46 AM
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