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Article proving that C-USA is garbage
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #1
Article proving that C-USA is garbage
12-31-2020 08:27 PM
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jhruzek Offline
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RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
Great article. Thanks for pointing it out!
01-01-2021 02:05 AM
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RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
Sad but true
01-01-2021 08:44 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
From the article:

"Many members of this conference seem to want to bypass the process of building a winning program to get into a higher-profile conference and think that will somehow miraculously solve all of their problems."

Sounds like somebody has been reading the Parliament.

Both CUSA and SunBelt have the same problem with being too far-flung. It has long seemed to me that some sort of geographic realignment makes sense. Here is one that I would propose:

CUSA

CUSA WEST
NMSU (add)
UT-El Paso
UT-San Antonio
Texas State (S)
North Texas
UT-Arlington (S, non-football)
Rice
La Tech

CUSA EAST
Arkansas State (S)
UA-Little Rock (S, non-football)
UL-Monroe (S)
UL-Lafayette (S)
Southern Miss
UA-Birmingham
Florida Atlantic
Florida International

Travel pairs-NMSU/UTEP, UTSA/TxSt, UNT/UTA, Rice/LaTech, ArkSt/UALR, ULM/ULL, UAB/SoMiss, FIA/FAU. One alternative would be to put ULaLa in the west and LaTech in the east, and Rice/ULaLa and LaTech/UL-Monroe might make more sensible travel pairs. Rice has some history with both LaTech and ULaLa.

SUNBELT

SUNBELT SOUTH
Troy
South Alabama
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Coastal Carolina
Charlotte ©

SUNBELT NORTH
Western Kentucky ©
Middle Tennessee ©
Marshall ©
Liberty (add)
ODU ©
Appalachian State

Travel pairs-Troy/SoAla, GaSt/GaSo, Coastal/Charlotte, WKy/MTenn, Marshall/AppSt, Liberty/ODU

(S) SunBelt teams moving to CUSA
© CUSA teams moving to SunBelt

Each league needs an even number in each division to facilitate travel pairs for non-football sports, which means 16 (8:8) or 12 (6:6). With the non-football schools both in CUSA, that makes football 14-12, which is about as evenly as they can be divided. For football CUSA would play 6 in division and 2 crossover on rotating basis, and SunBelt would play 5 in division and 3 crossover, total 8 conference games for both. For basketball CUSA could play 14 home-and-home in division and 4 home-and-home with one crossover pair on rotating basis, total 18, and SunBelt could play 10 home-and-home in division and 6 crossover, total 16.

FAU/FIU arguably belong with SunBelt and Troy/SoAla with CUSA, but doing that would mean only 4 former SunBelt members stay with the conference, and that would mean possible loss of their NCAA automatic bid. With the travel pairs, each conference should be able to cut back travel expenses significantly; the worst travel pair trips would probably be Huntington to Boone and Norfolk to Lynchburg, which are probably faster driving (4-5 hours) than any other way. Houston to Ruston is also over 3 hours, flying either to Shreveport or Monroe. Both conferences would have the potential to have some impacts in top 100 TV markets--CUSA (El Paso, San Antonio, Houston, DFW, Shreveport, Little Rock, Birmingham, Miami) and SunBelt (Atlanta, Mobile, Charlotte, Columbia, Nashville, Charleston/Huntington, Roanoke/Lynchburg, Norfolk)--albeit as a second or third school in most.

Realignment would provide an opportunity to develop more geographic rivalries, and would minimize the UTEP volleyball trips to Huntington, WV, or vice versa, which require significant inconvenient travel with little hope of generating much enthusiasm. There would still be some awkward trips, but the number would be minimized.

But the bottom line is this. Realignment could help with costs. But what really needs to happen is that the league needs to make serious commitments across the league to field competitive programs. And Rice, we're looking at you.
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2021 01:30 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
01-01-2021 12:02 PM
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Tomball Owl Offline
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RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
(01-01-2021 12:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  From the article:

"Many members of this conference seem to want to bypass the process of building a winning program to get into a higher-profile conference and think that will somehow miraculously solve all of their problems."

Sounds like somebody has been reading the Parliament.

Both CUSA and SunBelt have the same problem with being too far-flung. It has long seemed to me that some sort of geographic realignment makes sense. Here is one that I would propose:

CUSA

CUSA WEST
NMSU (add)
UT-El Paso
UT-San Antonio
Texas State (S)
North Texas
UT-Arlington (S, non-football)
Rice
La Tech

CUSA EAST
Arkansas State (S)
UA-Little Rock (S, non-football)
UL-Monroe (S)
UL-Lafayette (S)
Southern Miss
UA-Birmingham
Florida Atlantic
Florida International

Travel pairs-NMSU/UTEP, UTSA/TxSt, UNT/UTA, Rice/LaTech, ArkSt/UALR, ULM/ULL, UAB/SoMiss, FIA/FAU

SUNBELT

SUNBELT SOUTH
Troy
South Alabama
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Coastal Carolina
Charlotte ©

SUNBELT NORTH
Western Kentucky ©
Middle Tennessee ©
Marshall ©
Liberty (add)
ODU ©
Appalachian State

Travel pairs-Troy/SoAla, GaSt/GaSo, Coastal/Charlotte, WKy/MTenn, Marshall/AppSt, Liberty/ODU

(S) SunBelt teams moving to CUSA
© CUSA teams moving to SunBelt

Each league needs an even number in each division to facilitate travel pairs for non-football sports. FAU/FIU arguably belong with SunBelt and Troy/SoAla with CUSA, but doing that would mean only 4 former SunBelt members stay with the conference, and that would mean possible loss of their NCAA automatic bid. With the travel pairs, each conference should be able to cut back travel expenses significantly; the worst travel pair trips would probably be Huntington to Boone and Norfolk to Lynchburg, which are probably faster driving (4-5 hours) than any other way. Houston to Ruston is also over 3 hours, flying either to Shreveport or Monroe. Both conferences would have the potential to have some impacts in top 100 TV markets--CUSA (El Paso, San Antonio, Houston, DFW, Shreveport, Little Rock, Birmingham, Miami) and SunBelt (Atlanta, Mobile, Charlotte, Columbia, Nashville, Charleston/Huntington, Roanoke/Lynchburg, Norfolk)--albeit as a second or third school in most.

Realignment would provide an opportunity to develop more geographic rivalries, and would minimize the UTEP volleyball trips to Huntington, WV, or vice versa, which require significant inconvenient travel with little hope of generating much enthusiasm. There would still be some awkward trips, but the number would be minimized.

But the bottom line is this. Realignment could help with costs. But what really needs to happen is that the league needs to make serious commitments across the league to field competitive programs. And Rice, we're looking at you.

Had the same thought about the author doing some of his research by reading the Parliament (or any other active CUSA board).

Your geographical realignment makes a lot more sense than what exists today.
01-01-2021 01:13 PM
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Texasowl Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
It be better to get rid of Judy McLeod who has been a complete failure, add only two teams teams to Conf USA initially if some of the teams wanted to leave and play more non conference games in the area.
(01-01-2021 12:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  From the article:

"Many members of this conference seem to want to bypass the process of building a winning program to get into a higher-profile conference and think that will somehow miraculously solve all of their problems."

Sounds like somebody has been reading the Parliament.

Both CUSA and SunBelt have the same problem with being too far-flung. It has long seemed to me that some sort of geographic realignment makes sense. Here is one that I would propose:

CUSA

CUSA WEST
NMSU (add)
UT-El Paso
UT-San Antonio
Texas State (S)
North Texas
UT-Arlington (S, non-football)
Rice
La Tech

CUSA EAST
Arkansas State (S)
UA-Little Rock (S, non-football)
UL-Monroe (S)
UL-Lafayette (S)
Southern Miss
UA-Birmingham
Florida Atlantic
Florida International

Travel pairs-NMSU/UTEP, UTSA/TxSt, UNT/UTA, Rice/LaTech, ArkSt/UALR, ULM/ULL, UAB/SoMiss, FIA/FAU. One alternative would be to put ULaLa in the west and LaTech in the east, and Rice/ULaLa and LaTech/UL-Monroe might make more sensible travel pairs. Rice has some history with both LaTech and ULaLa.

SUNBELT

SUNBELT SOUTH
Troy
South Alabama
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Coastal Carolina
Charlotte ©

SUNBELT NORTH
Western Kentucky ©
Middle Tennessee ©
Marshall ©
Liberty (add)
ODU ©
Appalachian State

Travel pairs-Troy/SoAla, GaSt/GaSo, Coastal/Charlotte, WKy/MTenn, Marshall/AppSt, Liberty/ODU

(S) SunBelt teams moving to CUSA
© CUSA teams moving to SunBelt

Each league needs an even number in each division to facilitate travel pairs for non-football sports, which means 16 (8:8) or 12 (6:6). With the non-football schools both in CUSA, that makes football 14-12, which is about as evenly as they can be divided. For football CUSA would play 6 in division and 2 crossover on rotating basis, and SunBelt would play 5 in division and 3 crossover, total 8 conference games for both. For basketball CUSA could play 14 home-and-home in division and 4 home-and-home with one crossover pair on rotating basis, total 18, and SunBelt could play 10 home-and-home in division and 6 crossover, total 16.

FAU/FIU arguably belong with SunBelt and Troy/SoAla with CUSA, but doing that would mean only 4 former SunBelt members stay with the conference, and that would mean possible loss of their NCAA automatic bid. With the travel pairs, each conference should be able to cut back travel expenses significantly; the worst travel pair trips would probably be Huntington to Boone and Norfolk to Lynchburg, which are probably faster driving (4-5 hours) than any other way. Houston to Ruston is also over 3 hours, flying either to Shreveport or Monroe. Both conferences would have the potential to have some impacts in top 100 TV markets--CUSA (El Paso, San Antonio, Houston, DFW, Shreveport, Little Rock, Birmingham, Miami) and SunBelt (Atlanta, Mobile, Charlotte, Columbia, Nashville, Charleston/Huntington, Roanoke/Lynchburg, Norfolk)--albeit as a second or third school in most.

Realignment would provide an opportunity to develop more geographic rivalries, and would minimize the UTEP volleyball trips to Huntington, WV, or vice versa, which require significant inconvenient travel with little hope of generating much enthusiasm. There would still be some awkward trips, but the number would be minimized.

But the bottom line is this. Realignment could help with costs. But what really needs to happen is that the league needs to make serious commitments across the league to field competitive programs. And Rice, we're looking at you.
(This post was last modified: 01-01-2021 09:06 PM by Texasowl.)
01-01-2021 08:45 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
I like 69/70/75's proposal. The only way I'd change it is to drop the two Florida schools. It would make the geography more reasonable. Besides, the Florida schools will never amount to much. They should have never been admitted into CUSA. Let another conference deal with them. I do like NMSU. They're good in basketball, they're a perfect travel partner to UTEP. For what it's worth, this is my take:

WEST:

NMSU
UTEP
UTSA
Texas State
Rice
North Texas
UT-Arlington (basketball)

EAST:

Arkansas State
Ark. Little Rock (basketball)
Louisiana
Louisiana Tech
Southern Mississippi
South Alabama
UAB
01-01-2021 09:49 PM
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westsidewolf1989 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
Some great quotes that really resonated with me

"Over the past seven years I’ve watched Conference USA games on ESPN channels, Fox Sports national and regional channels, CBS Sports, NFL Network, Stadium, BeIN Sports, American Sports Network, CUSA.tv, ESPN+, Facebook, Twitter, and Periscope when Rice’s in-stadium production cut out during an overtime game against North Texas in 2016.

Conference USA football is hard to watch, and even more hard to find. No one is stumbling upon these games, and very few are popping up on the television at your neighborhood pub.

This inconvenience drives away casual fans, but it has an even bigger impact on recruiting. The more barriers to watch a game the harder it is for coaching staffs to get their brand and message out to prospects. I can’t imagine many recruiting coordinators are hitting up three-star prospects with a text about signing up for a $10 payment to catch this week’s game."

"Rice found themselves in a similar situation as they chose to coast things out with David Bailiff after the Owls’ production and recruiting fell off a cliff following their 2013 conference championship."
01-01-2021 09:49 PM
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Ourland Offline
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RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
(01-01-2021 09:49 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  Some great quotes that really resonated with me

"Over the past seven years I’ve watched Conference USA games on ESPN channels, Fox Sports national and regional channels, CBS Sports, NFL Network, Stadium, BeIN Sports, American Sports Network, CUSA.tv, ESPN+, Facebook, Twitter, and Periscope when Rice’s in-stadium production cut out during an overtime game against North Texas in 2016.

Conference USA football is hard to watch, and even more hard to find. No one is stumbling upon these games, and very few are popping up on the television at your neighborhood pub.

This inconvenience drives away casual fans, but it has an even bigger impact on recruiting. The more barriers to watch a game the harder it is for coaching staffs to get their brand and message out to prospects. I can’t imagine many recruiting coordinators are hitting up three-star prospects with a text about signing up for a $10 payment to catch this week’s game."

"Rice found themselves in a similar situation as they chose to coast things out with David Bailiff after the Owls’ production and recruiting fell off a cliff following their 2013 conference championship."

+1. All true
01-01-2021 09:50 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
(01-01-2021 09:49 PM)Ourland Wrote:  I like 69/70/75's proposal. The only way I'd change it is to drop the two Florida schools. It would make the geography more reasonable. Besides, the Florida schools will never amount to much. They should have never been admitted into CUSA. Let another conference deal with them. I do like NMSU. They're good in basketball, they're a perfect travel partner to UTEP. For what it's worth, this is my take:
WEST:
NMSU
UTEP
UTSA
Texas State
Rice
North Texas
UT-Arlington (basketball)
EAST:
Arkansas State
Ark. Little Rock (basketball)
Louisiana
Louisiana Tech
Southern Mississippi
South Alabama
UAB

That makes sense in a lot of ways. The problem is that two 7-team (or any odd number) divisions make scheduling and finding travel partners difficult for basketball and non-rev sports. What makes more geographic sense would be to put Troy and South Alabama in CUSA East and the Florida schools in SunBelt. Problem then is that leaves SunBelt with only 4 carryover schools, which means they lose their automatic NCAA bid. So Troy and South Alabama need to stay with SunBelt. That pretty much means that the only way to avoid odd-numbered divisions for basketball is to put the Florida schools in CUSA. At least all schools are in contiguous states, which XII doesn't have.
01-02-2021 10:10 AM
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Tomball Owl Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
So how many carryover schools are required to retain the auto bids? How long do they have to be in a conference?

My point, is there a way to transition to the more geographically friendly conference alignments, over a period of time, versus all at once, and still retain the auto bids?

Alternatively, petition the NCAA for an exception to the rule. Oh wait, that probably only works for P5 schools.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2021 11:24 AM by Tomball Owl.)
01-02-2021 11:23 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
(01-02-2021 11:23 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  So how many carryover schools are required to retain the auto bids? How long do they have to be in a conference?
My point, is there a way to transition to the more geographically friendly conference alignments, over a period of time, versus all at once, and still retain the auto bids?
Alternatively, petition the NCAA for an exception to the rule. Oh wait, that probably only works for P5 schools.

I don't have the NCAA manual handy, so I'm doing this from memory. FBO may have it handy or Mike may be able to locate it online.

I think the number is, or at least used to be, either 5 or 6. And I'm not aware of any requirement that it be a certain number of years. Some kind of transition could clearly be done. I tried to retain 6 just in case.

They could probably get an exception. The NCAA has granted them in the past. I think the Big East/AAC split required some sort of extension. But we aren't the big boys, who get exceptions on request.

The Florida schools don't really appeal to either league. They are about as far from any SunBelt school (except Georgia Southern) as they are from any CUSA school. They do have some potential upside.

With Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, El Paso, and Birmingham, CUSA would probably be more city-oriented than SunBelt, and so Miami might be a slightly better fit on that basis.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2021 01:26 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
01-02-2021 11:32 AM
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Post: #13
RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
Displaying my outmoded beliefs on my sleeve, I continue to find it disillusioning that college conferences are modeled almost entirely on TV revenues and not the student-athletes, actual sports, and sportsmanship.
01-02-2021 01:02 PM
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Ourland Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
(01-02-2021 10:10 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-01-2021 09:49 PM)Ourland Wrote:  I like 69/70/75's proposal. The only way I'd change it is to drop the two Florida schools. It would make the geography more reasonable. Besides, the Florida schools will never amount to much. They should have never been admitted into CUSA. Let another conference deal with them. I do like NMSU. They're good in basketball, they're a perfect travel partner to UTEP. For what it's worth, this is my take:
WEST:
NMSU
UTEP
UTSA
Texas State
Rice
North Texas
UT-Arlington (basketball)
EAST:
Arkansas State
Ark. Little Rock (basketball)
Louisiana
Louisiana Tech
Southern Mississippi
South Alabama
UAB

That makes sense in a lot of ways. The problem is that two 7-team (or any odd number) divisions make scheduling and finding travel partners difficult for basketball and non-rev sports. What makes more geographic sense would be to put Troy and South Alabama in CUSA East and the Florida schools in SunBelt. Problem then is that leaves SunBelt with only 4 carryover schools, which means they lose their automatic NCAA bid. So Troy and South Alabama need to stay with SunBelt. That pretty much means that the only way to avoid odd-numbered divisions for basketball is to put the Florida schools in CUSA. At least all schools are in contiguous states, which XII doesn't have.

Perhaps just drop UT-Arlington and Ark. Little Rock. Have 12 full members. That cleans it up nicely, but you lose a couple decent basketball programs.

Louisiana Tech will have nothing to do with ULM, and UAB will have nothing to do with Troy. That complicates matters. Politics.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2021 07:09 PM by Ourland.)
01-02-2021 06:38 PM
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RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
Numbers,
Why would LaTech not want to be in a conference with at least most of those Louisiana schools and instead be in one with NMS and UTEP?

I wouldn't worry about the Belt... take care of CUSA. I'd also consider cutting us to two 6 team divisions allowing for an additional OOC game to create/foster a rivalry, for a win, exposure or $$.

Ourland's is closer to what I'd do. If we want to play LaTech or La, we can do it as an 'OOC' game. No rotation. Do it because you want to do it, not because 'it's your turn'. I think the crossover games harm rather than help.


Westside... You hit on some of the reasons I want us to go 'online' with our sports. Of course it'd be better if we were consistently on some other network, but that's not in our control. Stream it ourselves and if ESPN3 wants to pick it up (perhaps because of our opponent) that's fine... but we send people to OUR site where they watch the commercials WE want them to see and get links to past great games or clips or other sports or arts or lectures or stories from campus.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2021 04:12 PM by Hambone10.)
01-04-2021 04:10 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
Watching a bit of the 6A large school football semifinals between last year's two 6A champions (different divisions) - Galena Park North Shore vs. Austin Westlake.

Both teams run offenses far more complex than that kindergarten scheme utilized by Rice.
01-09-2021 03:47 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
The Southland Conference, on Thursday, is going to lose 4 schools (Sam Houston State, Stephen F. Austin, Lamar, and Abilene Christian) to the WAC.

This change will leave just 2 Texas schools (HBU and Incarnate Word) in the Southland.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2021 11:51 AM by WRCisforgotten79.)
01-12-2021 12:31 AM
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Post: #18
RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
(01-12-2021 12:31 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  The Southland Conference, on Thursday, is going to lose 4 schools (Sam Houston State, Stephen F. Austin, Lamar, and Abilene Christian) to the WAC.

This change will leave just 2 Texas schools (HBU and Concordia) in the Southland.

Concordia is Division III in the American Southwest Conference. I think you mean Incarnate Word.

The WAC is looking to bring back football in 2022 initially at the FCS level. Long term plans would be to move to FBS. The only issue I'm aware of is that the WAC needs another FCS football school for 2022 to qualify for the playoffs. Suggestions are an Arkansas or Louisiana FCS school.

Apparently New Mexico State currently affiliated with the WAC, but an FBS independent, won't drop down to FCS and will wait until the conference moves to FBS.
01-12-2021 09:26 AM
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Post: #19
RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
(01-12-2021 09:26 AM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 12:31 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  The Southland Conference, on Thursday, is going to lose 4 schools (Sam Houston State, Stephen F. Austin, Lamar, and Abilene Christian) to the WAC.

This change will leave just 2 Texas schools (HBU and Concordia) in the Southland.

Concordia is Division III in the American Southwest Conference. I think you mean Incarnate Word.

The WAC is looking to bring back football in 2022 initially at the FCS level. Long term plans would be to move to FBS. The only issue I'm aware of is that the WAC needs another FCS football school for 2022 to qualify for the playoffs. Suggestions are an Arkansas or Louisiana FCS school.

Apparently New Mexico State currently affiliated with the WAC, but an FBS independent, won't drop down to FCS and will wait until the conference moves to FBS.

I have real doubt that a collection of those football programs could ever move up to FBS. NMSU is probably hoping for a CUSA-Sunbelt shuffle
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RE: Article proving that C-USA is garbage
(01-12-2021 09:26 AM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  
(01-12-2021 12:31 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  The Southland Conference, on Thursday, is going to lose 4 schools (Sam Houston State, Stephen F. Austin, Lamar, and Abilene Christian) to the WAC.

This change will leave just 2 Texas schools (HBU and Concordia) in the Southland.

Concordia is Division III in the American Southwest Conference. I think you mean Incarnate Word.

The WAC is looking to bring back football in 2022 initially at the FCS level. Long term plans would be to move to FBS. The only issue I'm aware of is that the WAC needs another FCS football school for 2022 to qualify for the playoffs. Suggestions are an Arkansas or Louisiana FCS school.

Apparently New Mexico State currently affiliated with the WAC, but an FBS independent, won't drop down to FCS and will wait until the conference moves to FBS.

TAMU-CC is also in the Southland (but they don't have football).
01-12-2021 04:38 PM
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