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Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
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GeminiCoog Offline
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Post: #1
Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
This is merely for fantasy purposes.

I was thinking the other day about the Southwest Conference and its demise. What if the league had decided to invite North Texas at the same time Houston was invited? Because when the four original Texas Big 12 schools split, instead of leaving the other for empty-handed, there would’ve been a fifth school. And let’s say they chose to invite a school like Tulane around the same time Arkansas left for the SEC. That would make six schools, a pretty decent nucleus to build around. So here is what I think could’ve happened if the above scenario played out. UTEP and five other schools get invited to join the SWC in order to save it. Those five schools are New Mexico, New Mexico State, Louisiana Tech, Memphis, and Tulsa. Now if you want to break those down into divisions, it’s simple. We would just have to determine how many Texas schools would be in each division. Do we have a Texas centric division, or do we go east and west or north and south? I have decided to go east and west. And this is how I will break down the divisions.

EAST
Houston
LA Tech
Memphis
Rice
Tulane
Tulsa

WEST
New Mexico
New Mexico State
North Texas
SMU
TCU
UTEP

I did it this way because to me it makes the most geographical sense. You could always swap Tulsa and North Texas if you want an equal number of Texas schools in each division. Either way, that’s how I would’ve done a reloaded SWC. What would you like to see? How would y’all rebuild the SWC after the Big 12 merger?
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2020 09:03 PM by GeminiCoog.)
12-30-2020 08:51 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
New Mexico wouldn’t leave the then very respectable WAC for that very bad conference....other than that all the other schools in your list would have joined the left behind SWC 4.
12-30-2020 09:43 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
On further thought, I doubt UTEP leaves the WAC either for that. Maybe UTEPMINER could confirm. The WAC pre SWC adds was a big time conference. Younger posters on here don’t get it because they weren’t there to remember.
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2020 09:47 PM by billybobby777.)
12-30-2020 09:45 PM
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GeminiCoog Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
That’s fair. Again, this is merely for fantasy purposes. Hypothetical purposes.
12-30-2020 09:47 PM
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Post: #5
RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
They were talking to Louisville, Tulsa and Tulane before the Big 12 was formed.

Houston didn't want to participate or they might have been able to form off the SWC instead of the CUSA. Don't know how Louisville and Cincinnati felt about that, but it could have been:
Rice
TCU
SMU
Houston
Tulane
Memphis
Louisville
Cincinnati
Tulsa
UTEP
And possibly DePaul and St. Louis for basketball.
12-30-2020 09:52 PM
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GeminiCoog Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
(12-30-2020 09:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  They were talking to Louisville, Tulsa and Tulane before the Big 12 was formed.

Houston didn't want to participate or they might have been able to form off the SWC instead of the CUSA. Don't know how Louisville and Cincinnati felt about that, but it could have been:
Rice
TCU
SMU
Houston
Tulane
Memphis
Louisville
Cincinnati
Tulsa
UTEP
And possibly DePaul and St. Louis for basketball.

That would’ve been a nice ten-team football league, good enough for a nine-game round-robin schedule.
12-30-2020 10:15 PM
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Foreverandever Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
(12-30-2020 10:15 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 09:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  They were talking to Louisville, Tulsa and Tulane before the Big 12 was formed.

Houston didn't want to participate or they might have been able to form off the SWC instead of the CUSA. Don't know how Louisville and Cincinnati felt about that, but it could have been:
Rice
TCU
SMU
Houston
Tulane
Memphis
Louisville
Cincinnati
Tulsa
UTEPSouthern Miss/UAB
And possibly DePaul and St. Louis for basketball.

That would’ve been a nice ten-team football league, good enough for a nine-game round-robin schedule.

I don't think UTEP for that series of moves, they were pretty locked in with the WAC back then.

Southern Miss would have been more likely as they would have fit nicely with Memphis and Tulane. UAB maybe instead of Southern Miss if basketball was more important. Would have been a solid conference. I was just thinking earlier today with all the Boise talk about what a different world it would have been if the three Texas schools and Tulsa had gone east instead of west.

I know Tulsa was looking at what would become CUSA and the Super WAC at the same time roughly and we favored going with the private Texas schools which ever way they went.

That would have been a good hoops league too.
12-30-2020 10:45 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
I'd like to recreate the SWC for shtz n giggles:

Texas
TAMU
Baylor
New Mexico
Arkansas
TCU
Texas Tech
Utah
BYU
Colorado

This to me would be a fantastic conference to watch with a plethora of nice rivalries. Instead CFB is too greedy and thus destroying itself.
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2020 01:03 AM by ClairtonPanther.)
12-30-2020 11:30 PM
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Post: #9
RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
(12-30-2020 10:45 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 10:15 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 09:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  They were talking to Louisville, Tulsa and Tulane before the Big 12 was formed.

Houston didn't want to participate or they might have been able to form off the SWC instead of the CUSA. Don't know how Louisville and Cincinnati felt about that, but it could have been:
Rice
TCU
SMU
Houston
Tulane
Memphis
Louisville
Cincinnati
Tulsa
UTEPSouthern Miss/UAB
And possibly DePaul and St. Louis for basketball.

That would’ve been a nice ten-team football league, good enough for a nine-game round-robin schedule.

I don't think UTEP for that series of moves, they were pretty locked in with the WAC back then.

Southern Miss would have been more likely as they would have fit nicely with Memphis and Tulane. UAB maybe instead of Southern Miss if basketball was more important. Would have been a solid conference. I was just thinking earlier today with all the Boise talk about what a different world it would have been if the three Texas schools and Tulsa had gone east instead of west.

I know Tulsa was looking at what would become CUSA and the Super WAC at the same time roughly and we favored going with the private Texas schools which ever way they went.

That would have been a good hoops league too.

I think UTEP wouldn't have hesitated to come. But you are probably right that they would have looked at USM first. The UC/UL/Memphis/Tulane group had more ties with them and the SWC group didn't really have ties with UTEP.
12-30-2020 11:49 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
(12-30-2020 09:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  They were talking to Louisville, Tulsa and Tulane before the Big 12 was formed.

Houston didn't want to participate or they might have been able to form off the SWC instead of the CUSA. Don't know how Louisville and Cincinnati felt about that, but it could have been:
Rice
TCU
SMU
Houston
Tulane
Memphis
Louisville
Cincinnati
Tulsa
UTEP
And possibly DePaul and St. Louis for basketball.

No need to go all the way out to UTEP. Back then you only needed 6 teams for a conference. The top nine would have been plenty. Nine teams---8 game round robin---just like the typical old school SWC schedule.
12-30-2020 11:53 PM
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GeminiCoog Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
(12-30-2020 11:30 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I'd like to recreate the SWC for shtz n giggles:

Texas
TAMU
Baylor
New Mexico
Arkansas
TCU
Texas Tech
Rice
Houston
SMU

This to me would be a fantastic conference to watch with a plethora of nice rivalries. Instead CFB is too greedy and tgus destroying itself.

FIFY. Also, with my corrections, that's how the conference was from 1971-is to 1990, Arkansas' last year in the league, plus New Mexico. And who knows? If they had just added another school, like New Mexico or North Texas, perhaps the league would've stayed together longer? Maybe Arkansas stays and is one of the four SWC teams in the Big 12 merger? Who knows?
12-31-2020 12:30 AM
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GeminiCoog Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
(12-30-2020 10:45 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 10:15 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 09:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  They were talking to Louisville, Tulsa and Tulane before the Big 12 was formed.

Houston didn't want to participate or they might have been able to form off the SWC instead of the CUSA. Don't know how Louisville and Cincinnati felt about that, but it could have been:
Rice
TCU
SMU
Houston
Tulane
Memphis
Louisville
Cincinnati
Tulsa
UTEPSouthern Miss/UAB
And possibly DePaul and St. Louis for basketball.

That would’ve been a nice ten-team football league, good enough for a nine-game round-robin schedule.

I don't think UTEP for that series of moves, they were pretty locked in with the WAC back then.

Southern Miss would have been more likely as they would have fit nicely with Memphis and Tulane. UAB maybe instead of Southern Miss if basketball was more important. Would have been a solid conference. I was just thinking earlier today with all the Boise talk about what a different world it would have been if the three Texas schools and Tulsa had gone east instead of west.

I know Tulsa was looking at what would become CUSA and the Super WAC at the same time roughly and we favored going with the private Texas schools which ever way they went.

That would have been a good hoops league too.

At least half of the programs I named in my original post have some history with each other, including the four real SWC schools left from the Big 12 merger. Either they've shared a league with the SWC 4 or played them quite a few times before the mid-90s. And even then, schools like UTEP, New Mexico, and NMSU have history together as well.

Here's an example of what I mean: The last conference Houston was in before going Independent (and ultimately joining the SWC) was the Missouri Valley Conference back when it was an all-sports conference. (Currently, the MVFC is a separate entity from the MVC as a whole, though some all-sports MVC members are football members of the football MVC.) From 1957 to 1959, Houston, Cincinnati, North Texas, and Tulsa were in the MVC. (Houston's tenure was from 1951-1959.)
12-31-2020 12:47 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
(12-31-2020 12:47 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 10:45 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 10:15 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 09:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  They were talking to Louisville, Tulsa and Tulane before the Big 12 was formed.

Houston didn't want to participate or they might have been able to form off the SWC instead of the CUSA. Don't know how Louisville and Cincinnati felt about that, but it could have been:
Rice
TCU
SMU
Houston
Tulane
Memphis
Louisville
Cincinnati
Tulsa
UTEPSouthern Miss/UAB
And possibly DePaul and St. Louis for basketball.

That would’ve been a nice ten-team football league, good enough for a nine-game round-robin schedule.

I don't think UTEP for that series of moves, they were pretty locked in with the WAC back then.

Southern Miss would have been more likely as they would have fit nicely with Memphis and Tulane. UAB maybe instead of Southern Miss if basketball was more important. Would have been a solid conference. I was just thinking earlier today with all the Boise talk about what a different world it would have been if the three Texas schools and Tulsa had gone east instead of west.

I know Tulsa was looking at what would become CUSA and the Super WAC at the same time roughly and we favored going with the private Texas schools which ever way they went.

That would have been a good hoops league too.

At least half of the programs I named in my original post have some history with each other, including the four real SWC schools left from the Big 12 merger. Either they've shared a league with the SWC 4 or played them quite a few times before the mid-90s. And even then, schools like UTEP, New Mexico, and NMSU have history together as well.

Here's an example of what I mean: The last conference Houston was in before going Independent (and ultimately joining the SWC) was the Missouri Valley Conference back when it was an all-sports conference. (Currently, the MVFC is a separate entity from the MVC as a whole, though some all-sports MVC members are football members of the football MVC.) From 1957 to 1959, Houston, Cincinnati, North Texas, and Tulsa were in the MVC. (Houston's tenure was from 1951-1959.)

Sure---but you actually want to be in a quality conference. You want teams that you actually WANT to be in a conference with. I mean, when UT/Aggie/Baylor/Tech made their announcement to leave for the Big-12, North Texas was playing D1-AA football. I think LaTech had only been D1-A for a few years in 94. Point is, those types of schools would not likely have been considered acceptable options for the SWC leftovers who were long time D1 members---and had been competing in a top level power conference just a few months before. If it was me, I have at least tried to strip away BYU and front ridge schools from the WAC to join the SWC 4. Failing that---the group posted by someone earlier is probably your best outcome. Those are all schools that have been around a while at the top level of football. Respectable academics. Not a bad basketball conference either.



Rice
TCU
SMU
Houston
Tulane
Memphis
Louisville
Cincinnati
Tulsa or S Miss to get to 9. Nine was a good number for a 8 game full round robin conference.
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2020 01:12 AM by Attackcoog.)
12-31-2020 01:03 AM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
(12-31-2020 12:30 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 11:30 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I'd like to recreate the SWC for shtz n giggles:

Texas
TAMU
Baylor
New Mexico
Arkansas
TCU
Texas Tech
Rice
Houston
SMU

This to me would be a fantastic conference to watch with a plethora of nice rivalries. Instead CFB is too greedy and tgus destroying itself.

FIFY. Also, with my corrections, that's how the conference was from 1971-is to 1990, Arkansas' last year in the league, plus New Mexico. And who knows? If they had just added another school, like New Mexico or North Texas, perhaps the league would've stayed together longer? Maybe Arkansas stays and is one of the four SWC teams in the Big 12 merger? Who knows?

I'm not sure that New Mexico would've been a great candidate 30 years ago. Today it's barely a worthwhile candidate. I included the school in my scenario because NM is one of the fastest growing states in the union and isn't represented in the P5 and likely will be looked over if we go to a 4/16 format. I think recreating the SWC would be good for CFB. Texas will instantly become a shark in the pond again. But there would be enough competition in state from TAMU as well as out of state from Utah. Colorado could potentially become a viable contender as well as it'll be able to tap into Texas again. Historically Colorado was Big 8 but I felt with Utah, BYU and NM in my scenario that Colorado made more sense in the SWC and not Big 8. Looking back in the day, Im not sure why the SWC didn't poach BYU and Utah. BYU was a power in the 80s.
12-31-2020 01:11 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
(12-31-2020 01:11 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  
(12-31-2020 12:30 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 11:30 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  I'd like to recreate the SWC for shtz n giggles:

Texas
TAMU
Baylor
New Mexico
Arkansas
TCU
Texas Tech
Rice
Houston
SMU

This to me would be a fantastic conference to watch with a plethora of nice rivalries. Instead CFB is too greedy and tgus destroying itself.

FIFY. Also, with my corrections, that's how the conference was from 1971-is to 1990, Arkansas' last year in the league, plus New Mexico. And who knows? If they had just added another school, like New Mexico or North Texas, perhaps the league would've stayed together longer? Maybe Arkansas stays and is one of the four SWC teams in the Big 12 merger? Who knows?

I'm not sure that New Mexico would've been a great candidate 30 years ago. Today it's barely a worthwhile candidate. I included the school in my scenario because NM is one of the fastest growing states in the union and isn't represented in the P5 and likely will be looked over if we go to a 4/16 format. I think recreating the SWC would be good for CFB. Texas will instantly become a shark in the pond again. But there would be enough competition in state from TAMU as well as out of state from Utah. Colorado could potentially become a viable contender as well as it'll be able to tap into Texas again. Historically Colorado was Big 8 but I felt with Utah, BYU and NM in my scenario that Colorado made more sense in the SWC and not Big 8. Looking back in the day, Im not sure why the SWC didn't poach BYU and Utah. BYU was a power in the 80s.

I know there was some consideration given to BYU and New Mexico during the SWC-Big12 merger talks.
12-31-2020 01:36 AM
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GeminiCoog Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
(12-31-2020 01:03 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(12-31-2020 12:47 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 10:45 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 10:15 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 09:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  They were talking to Louisville, Tulsa and Tulane before the Big 12 was formed.

Houston didn't want to participate or they might have been able to form off the SWC instead of the CUSA. Don't know how Louisville and Cincinnati felt about that, but it could have been:
Rice
TCU
SMU
Houston
Tulane
Memphis
Louisville
Cincinnati
Tulsa
UTEPSouthern Miss/UAB
And possibly DePaul and St. Louis for basketball.

That would’ve been a nice ten-team football league, good enough for a nine-game round-robin schedule.

I don't think UTEP for that series of moves, they were pretty locked in with the WAC back then.

Southern Miss would have been more likely as they would have fit nicely with Memphis and Tulane. UAB maybe instead of Southern Miss if basketball was more important. Would have been a solid conference. I was just thinking earlier today with all the Boise talk about what a different world it would have been if the three Texas schools and Tulsa had gone east instead of west.

I know Tulsa was looking at what would become CUSA and the Super WAC at the same time roughly and we favored going with the private Texas schools which ever way they went.

That would have been a good hoops league too.

At least half of the programs I named in my original post have some history with each other, including the four real SWC schools left from the Big 12 merger. Either they've shared a league with the SWC 4 or played them quite a few times before the mid-90s. And even then, schools like UTEP, New Mexico, and NMSU have history together as well.

Here's an example of what I mean: The last conference Houston was in before going Independent (and ultimately joining the SWC) was the Missouri Valley Conference back when it was an all-sports conference. (Currently, the MVFC is a separate entity from the MVC as a whole, though some all-sports MVC members are football members of the football MVC.) From 1957 to 1959, Houston, Cincinnati, North Texas, and Tulsa were in the MVC. (Houston's tenure was from 1951-1959.)

Sure---but you actually want to be in a quality conference. You want teams that you actually WANT to be in a conference with. I mean, when UT/Aggie/Baylor/Tech made their announcement to leave for the Big-12, North Texas was playing D1-AA football. I think LaTech had only been D1-A for a few years in 94. Point is, those types of schools would not likely have been considered acceptable options for the SWC leftovers who were long time D1 members---and had been competing in a top level power conference just a few months before. If it was me, I have at least tried to strip away BYU and front ridge schools from the WAC to join the SWC 4. Failing that---the group posted by someone earlier is probably your best outcome. Those are all schools that have been around a while at the top level of football. Respectable academics. Not a bad basketball conference either.



Rice
TCU
SMU
Houston
Tulane
Memphis
Louisville
Cincinnati
Tulsa or S Miss to get to 9. Nine was a good number for a 8 game full round robin conference.

Of course. And it's a shame, too. North Texas was a good program before they spent a hell of a lot of money trying to get into the SWC in the '70s. That made them go I-AA for about twenty years. (Which brings me to this, but only as a reminder: In my original scenario, the Mean Green are invited to join the SWC.)

But once again, this is all hypothetical. I'm going back to the early '70s, fellow Coog.

If we were to go off of what actually happened up until the announcement of the Big 12, of course, we'd have to go in a different direction. Therefore, your league is a good league, too. In fact, why not make it even better and invite both Southern Miss and Tulsa? It would be a good 9-game round robin league. (And a decent hoops league, too.) This is probably what should've happened. But what would we call it? Conference USA? SWC? A completely different name like the American Southwest Conference? (That name might already exist, but I'm not sure.) The Southwest 10? (Semantics, of course. Still, a name matters, too.)
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2020 02:54 AM by GeminiCoog.)
12-31-2020 02:48 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
Well we know that schools were being pulled into all different directions at this time. I looked at some of the old SWC minutes on a Texas Tech archive site and ECU and USL were studied, so there’s that. I think it’s related to this:

“When Jacoby became convinced in the past year that expansion was a must, SWC presidents told him to target only independents. He had 10 choices*, which he narrowed to Tulane, Louisville, Memphis State, Tulsa and Cincinnati.”

Those five plus the SWC would be the foundation of a great conference; it’s sort of the old MVC meets the SWC, plus Tulane which has history playing both the Metro and SWC teams. Southern Miss and the basketball schools from the Great Midwest are left out, as are the remaining Metro schools. I’m guessing the Metro would invite UAB and possibly add a few schools. I think DePaul ends up in the Big East or Atlantic 10. Hard to say what happens to Marquette and St. Louis, unless they join the Metro. There was Atlantic 10/Great Midwest merger talk at the time.

The SWC could have also taken the aforementioned nine and gone to 12 off the bat:

Cincinnati
Louisville
Memphis
ECU (fb-only)
Southern Miss
USL (fb-only)

Tulane
Houston
Rice
SMU
TCU
Tulsa





* By my count the ten choices were ECU, Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis, So. Miss, Tulane, USL, LaTech, Arkansas St., and Tulsa. Although Northern Illinois was an Independent at the time as well.
12-31-2020 05:13 AM
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michael.stevens.3110 Offline
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Post: #18
Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
They did an official visit to Tulane when Arkansas left....They said that too much of their budget came from tuition ..


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12-31-2020 07:32 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
I don’t know that had UNT been added with Houston that it would have held the SWC together in the 90s but it’s an interesting thought.

Disputes over money and power are ultimately what prevented a SWC rebuild.

You had old SWC members Houston, SMU, Rice, and TCU. FB independent Tulsa would have surely signed on to be their 5th. Tulane and USM were probably inclined to join too had this all occurred in a vacuum but at the same time this was going on the Metro and Great Midwest were talking a re-merger.

Cincinnati, Memphis, and non-fb UAB, St Louis, DePaul, Marquette, and Dayton were the Great Midwest
Louisville, USM, Tulane, and non-fb USF,Charlotte, VCU, and VT (who already had a comfy home for fb in the BE) were the Metro

Louisville had made some revenue demands a few years prior that Cincinnati and Memphis considered a bridge too far, causing the split in the first place.

Louisville was still thinking basketball first and also penny pinching through the process. USF and Charlotte were included in the merger so that Louisville & Co could avoid Metro exit fees—they simply voted out the VA schools prior to the merger so they could leave without paying a dime.

When it boils down to it, the SWC reboot needed Memphis, Louisville, and Cincinnati to get off the ground but those schools wanted to be the dominant central force of their conference, not periphery members.

Memphis, USM, and Tulane eventually ended up in a conference with Tulsa, SMU, Rice, and Houston but it took another decade to happen and by the time it did TCU, Louisville, and Cincinnati had all moved on to better opportunities.
(This post was last modified: 12-31-2020 10:08 AM by Fighting Muskie.)
12-31-2020 10:07 AM
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michael.stevens.3110 Offline
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Post: #20
Idea for what could have been a retooled SWC.
North Texas was ..and continues to be ...a Non entity


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12-31-2020 10:09 AM
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