I don’t get why they’ve spent decades taking their marching orders from Chapel Hill & Associates.

SC, Clemson, and Maryland were feuding with Chapel Hill in the early 50s over the bowl ban that gave rise to the ACC.

Clemson stuck with the ACC in the SAT feud that sent SC into independence.

In 1990 Clemson had a legitimate opportunity to join a football first conference along with football first independent Florida St. They passed on it and let their arch rival get that spot. (A decision that probably averted the dawn of an era of super conferences).

In the early 2010s, before the GOR was signed, had they made a push they probably could have found their way into the SEC but again, they didn’t.

It would be one thing if they were the Texas of the ACC and called the shots but they aren’t. Do they really like getting biased around by snooty basketball schools?

It's worked out for them. They don't have to go through Alabama to get in the Playoffs

The history of South Carolina athletics after leaving the ACC show that sticking with the conference in the 1970's was the correct decision at the time.

Timing was horrible in 1990. IPTAY was literally not on speaking terms with the Clemson Athletic Department and school administration because of the firing of Danny Ford and the disastrous hiring of Ken Hatfield when the SEC overtures were extended.

Had the conference added UConn instead of Louisville or Cincinnati in 2012 Clemson was prepared to leave along with several other schools.

Clemson's seating capacity illustrates why they weren't an early add for the SEC.

1957 20,000
1977 43,451
1982 57,307
2007 81,500

They developed through the 60's, 70's and 80's. Virginia Tech of course developed even slower and didn't get into the ACC until 2005.

Its a very similar situation to Penn State and the B1G where Penn State wasn't that big of a football school prior to the 60's.

(12-29-2020 10:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  The history of South Carolina athletics after leaving the ACC show that sticking with the conference in the 1970's was the correct decision at the time.

Timing was horrible in 1990. IPTAY was literally not on speaking terms with the Clemson Athletic Department and school administration because of the firing of Danny Ford and the disastrous hiring of Ken Hatfield when the SEC overtures were extended.

Had the conference added UConn instead of Louisville or Cincinnati in 2012 Clemson was prepared to leave along with several other schools.

Which schools do you believe were ready to bail?

I imagine Florida State was one of them.

(12-29-2020 11:11 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(12-29-2020 10:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  The history of South Carolina athletics after leaving the ACC show that sticking with the conference in the 1970's was the correct decision at the time.

Timing was horrible in 1990. IPTAY was literally not on speaking terms with the Clemson Athletic Department and school administration because of the firing of Danny Ford and the disastrous hiring of Ken Hatfield when the SEC overtures were extended.

Had the conference added UConn instead of Louisville or Cincinnati in 2012 Clemson was prepared to leave along with several other schools.

Which schools do you believe were ready to bail?

I imagine Florida State was one of them.

The entire southern wing of the conference plus likely Boston College. The only football first school that would have stayed would have been Virginia Tech because they expended far too much political capital blackmailing their way into the conference back in 2003.

(12-30-2020 12:10 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-29-2020 11:11 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(12-29-2020 10:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  The history of South Carolina athletics after leaving the ACC show that sticking with the conference in the 1970's was the correct decision at the time.

Timing was horrible in 1990. IPTAY was literally not on speaking terms with the Clemson Athletic Department and school administration because of the firing of Danny Ford and the disastrous hiring of Ken Hatfield when the SEC overtures were extended.

Had the conference added UConn instead of Louisville or Cincinnati in 2012 Clemson was prepared to leave along with several other schools.

Which schools do you believe were ready to bail?

I imagine Florida State was one of them.

The entire southern wing of the conference plus likely Boston College. The only football first school that would have stayed would have been Virginia Tech because they expended far too much political capital blackmailing their way into the conference back in 2003.

Oddly enough, that move in 2003 actually made the ACC a lot more stable than adding Miami or Syracuse.

If you think about it, the schools who run the ACC are far less powerful than the schools who run the other P5 conferences. UNC/UVA/Duke just don't have the money/power of USC/UCLA, OSU/Michigan, Texas/Oklahoma, or the dominant SEC schools.

But yet UNC/UVA/Duke are still stable because Virginia Tech and NC State are tied to them at the hip. That's 5 desirable schools that will never be separated from each other and will always vote in lockstep on everything.

(01-01-2021 12:30 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(12-30-2020 12:10 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-29-2020 11:11 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(12-29-2020 10:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  The history of South Carolina athletics after leaving the ACC show that sticking with the conference in the 1970's was the correct decision at the time.

Timing was horrible in 1990. IPTAY was literally not on speaking terms with the Clemson Athletic Department and school administration because of the firing of Danny Ford and the disastrous hiring of Ken Hatfield when the SEC overtures were extended.

Had the conference added UConn instead of Louisville or Cincinnati in 2012 Clemson was prepared to leave along with several other schools.

Which schools do you believe were ready to bail?

I imagine Florida State was one of them.

The entire southern wing of the conference plus likely Boston College. The only football first school that would have stayed would have been Virginia Tech because they expended far too much political capital blackmailing their way into the conference back in 2003.

Oddly enough, that move in 2003 actually made the ACC a lot more stable than adding Miami or Syracuse.

If you think about it, the schools who run the ACC are far less powerful than the schools who run the other P5 conferences. UNC/UVA/Duke just don't have the money/power of USC/UCLA, OSU/Michigan, Texas/Oklahoma, or the dominant SEC schools.

But yet UNC/UVA/Duke are still stable because Virginia Tech and NC State are tied to them at the hip. That's 5 desirable schools that will never be separated from each other and will always vote in lockstep on everything.

Not totally true.

Tech and State bucked UNC and Duke when it came down to UConn. For once they were smart enough to see that they were doomed if they made a basketball decision to a football problem,

So when it boils down to it, Clemson’s academic leadership want the association with the likes of UNC, Duke, and UVA. That’s why they didn’t leave in 1990 and why they didn’t push hard in 2011-2013 to get out.

They’ve managed to maintain that elite academic association and play football at a high level but I question how long that’s going to be financially feasible since their SEC counterparts are being compensated far greater for their media rights.

(01-01-2021 11:22 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So when it boils down to it, Clemson’s academic leadership want the association with the likes of UNC, Duke, and UVA. That’s why they didn’t leave in 1990 and why they didn’t push hard in 2011-2013 to get out.

They’ve managed to maintain that elite academic association and play football at a high level but I question how long that’s going to be financially feasible since their SEC counterparts are being compensated far greater for their media rights.

In 1990 the academic leadership likely wasn't aware that the SEC was interested. SEC interests contacted IPTAY leadership and was told that it wouldn't be possible to move. Max Lennon and Bobby Robinson wanted to "bring football to heel". Over the next decade Robinson starved the football program bringing on the inevitable collapse under Hatfield with us having our first losing season in 15 years in 1992. Robinson foolishly thought that Clemson was so far ahead in facilities that the rest of the conference couldn't catch up and very little investment was made. When Tommy Bowden was hired he pushed and pushed and pushed to finally get the tightwad Robinson to invest even a little in the facilities with the biggest improvement being the long overdue removal of the massive crown in the field at Death Valley from the triple option days. It was only after Robinson was replaced by Terry Don Phillips that significant facilities upgrades were undertaken, including the Westzone complex at Death Valley.

Had Clemson moved to the SEC in 1990 with the leadership in place at the University and athletic departments it would have been an unmitigated disaster.

As for the elite academic association, the institutionalized academic fraud at North Carolina proved what a false pursuit that truly was.

JR maintains that the Clemson folks were the ones who encouraged SC to talk to the SEC. Clemson was content to stay in the ACC if the ACC could bring in Florida St.

Any idea who it was that tipped of SC?

I don’t know that SEC membership would have been a permanent disaster. Clemson would have sorted things out eventually.

Hypothetically speaking, had Florida St and Clemson both been interested in the SEC I wonder if the SEC would have taken Florida St, Clemson, and SC for 14 schools had the rest of the Western targets not budged.

(01-02-2021 09:58 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  JR maintains that the Clemson folks were the ones who encouraged SC to talk to the SEC. Clemson was content to stay in the ACC if the ACC could bring in Florida St.

Any idea who it was that tipped of SC?

I don’t know that SEC membership would have been a permanent disaster. Clemson would have sorted things out eventually.

Hypothetically speaking, had Florida St and Clemson both been interested in the SEC I wonder if the SEC would have taken Florida St, Clemson, and SC for 14 schools had the rest of the Western targets not budged.

Actually that part of the story comes from Kaploney. I knew the SEC was in talks with Clemson back then and he filled in how it was that South Carolina came calling. So he'll be better able to tell you that part than I am.