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Penny says he's changing offense because ......
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 03:36 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  What bothers me the most is he appears to throw Toppert under the bus.

The head of the snake takes that lick...Even if it is someone elses fault.

Keep it in house.

Toppert's Offense

Kids showcasing their abilities not playing as a team...Privately you can say that all you want...But you shouldn't air your dirty laundry.

Penny should take the majority of the pain and criticism publicly...He should invite it by saying he needs to get better at (X,Y,Z). But he only has one criticism for himself.

Just in case some of you haven't watched the interview, you should know that macgar32's interpretation is the exact opposite (to be expected) of what Penny actually said. Not only that, the tone that magcar32 attributes to Penny is the exact opposite of what Penny was conveying.

- Penny took responsibility for not being able to keep the players focused on playing team ball
- Penny said that he is continuing to learn
- He said that the offense didn't have enough movement, there were too many 3 pointers after 1 or 2 passes
- He didn't throw Toppert under the bus at all

The last couple of minutes of the video are the problem. Penny basically saying that the team wasn't prepared and that there wasn't much of an offense run the last couple of years.
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2020 09:02 PM by Stammers.)
12-28-2020 08:52 PM
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Alanda Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 04:25 PM)Stammers Wrote:  The biggest problem with Penny is that he is a loose cannon. Nobody had to know that he gave money to Wiseman's mom. The only way others would have known would be if he told someone. He didn't need to talk about winning national championships and wanting all the smoke. That was stupid. Now this comes out.

I'm not necessarily against him running the same offense he ran at East; but nobody had to know the reason why.

I agree. While the money part is a different animal IMO, Penny's too open about things. Hopefully he can find some balance between what we get and typical coach speak.

(12-28-2020 04:32 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 03:36 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  What bothers me the most is he appears to throw Toppert under the bus.

The head of the snake takes that lick...Even if it is someone elses fault.

Keep it in house.

Toppert's Offense

Kids showcasing their abilities not playing as a team...Privately you can say that all you want...But you shouldn't air your dirty laundry.

Penny should take the majority of the pain and criticism publicly...He should invite it by saying he needs to get better at (X,Y,Z). But he only has one criticism for himself.

Yeah, there are several things that bother me about it. Just doesnt add up..

1. year one he said basically he just let Jeremiah do his thing.. ok, how does that offense differ from year 2 or 3 (except instead of Jeremiah its whomever has the ball).

2. I have heard Penny say numerous times "ALo knows how to run my offense" and I have heard others, color analysts, assistants, etc. etc. saying the same thing about Penny depending on ALo because he knows Penny's offense so well.

a couple of other things, but I am sure anyone reading this gets the point. It seems like some revisionism going on to justify things, and shift some of the blame.

I am glad to hear him say the bigs were going to start playing inside, but I dont believe that prior to this he didnt want them playing outside. Everytime Thomas comes into the games he starts jacking 3's like he is Reggie Miller and Penny never says a word or disciplines him for it.

Yeah I feel the same way about some revisionism.

It's interesting that according to one of 247's more recent podcasts someone that watches the practices said they spent like 90% of practice on defense. So if true sounds like Toppert didn't have much opportunity for success to begin with.
12-28-2020 08:55 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 07:38 PM)tkgrrett Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 07:12 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 07:00 PM)tkgrrett Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 06:11 PM)ImaTiger Wrote:  I swear to god you people just ***** to ***** and would ***** about anything...

I heard nothing in that interview that remotely disturbs me.

I heard a coach owning his job and being real about the losses, challenges, personalities, and the complexity of the challenge for his team.

I think Mr. Hardaway gets more of a pass from some of you than he is getting. Really he is doing fine. This is year 2. We are starting to treat him the way we did Yates and Finch. And look what that unfair treatment got them. You know what happened to Finch. For Christs sake; was Yates responsible for Bradley and Kilzer's off court behavior or Gun's untimely death?

******* cannibales... we eat our own; raw and uncooked.

You guys must live in an entirely different world than I do.

At my job when my team misses deadlines/targets (which we do) I have to go in with senior execs and explain it. If I ever answered with some version of what Penny said in that interview I would literally be thrown out of the room. He basically said: "I delegated the responsibility to a junior member of my team and let them run with it even though I wasnt comfortable or confident in what they were doing."

Even if its true, thats just an embarrassing thing to say out loud and makes you and your team look awful.

You would be thrown out of the room because you work at a company for people that are narrow minded, and unable to deviate from any concepts that differ from their own very limited scope.

Thankfully, successful companies don't see things the way you do. They would look at Penny and say that the fundamentals are there, the foundation has been built. Financials are in great shape, marketing is great, and most of the pieces are in place. They would look at the situation and see that they have invested so much money, and time and effort into Penny, and their approach would be to find a way to make it work; find a way for Penny to be successful.

Only idiots would just throw the team out of the room, with no attempt to pinpoint challenges and find solutions, with absolutely no backup plan. So, obviously 03-lmfao it doesn't surprise me, that that is your vision. It fits perfectly with everything else you post.

Penny wanted an NBA blueprint and he hired an NBA guy universally recognized as bright and talented to help him. It hasn't worked. Time to admit the mistake and move on to Plan B.

You miss the point entirely - I would be thrown out regardless of "concepts" because that type of statement is obviously a failure of leadership. When you are the lead you dont blame a subordinate for something you delegated to them and you definitely dont say you didnt step in when you saw things were going south because you didnt feel comfortable.

What is the solution for a coach who allows things to continue to go wrong because he doesnt feel comfortable questioning a subordinate?

Missing the point? I'm repeating what you said; your warped view of what leadership is.

It was bad enough when you said that executives would throw the team out of the room. You don't even realize that you are making yourself sound much worse (which is almost impossible) by trying to explain yourself.

Quote:By the 2007–2008 basketball season, at least 224 junior high, high school, college, and professional teams were using some form of the Dribble drive motion.

Quote:During the 2012-2013 NBA Season the Denver Nuggets led by coach George Karl implemented a version of the dribble drive offense behind point guards Ty Lawson and Andre Miller, leading them to the highest ranked offense in the NBA by points scored, and the 3rd Seed in the Western Conference, while winning a franchise best 57 games.

First of all, probably at least 90% of all coaches at every level are using an offense and a defense that someone else invented. Cal modeled our offense after Vance Walberg's dribble drive and visited with Bobby Knight. There are almost no coaches that invent offenses. When they are successful, they get copied by others.

Second, Penny wanted to run an NBA offense, so he hired Toppert who ran clinics at the NBA combine. The move behind it made sense, but it doesn't work with our players.

Third, in your world, executives yell at subordinates and throw them out of a room. Then you comically make a comment about failure of leadership. Your real life example is the worst case of **** leadership imaginable. No wonder you turned out how you did.

Penny is showing leadership by being transparent, by taking full ownership of the offense, by admitting that the team hasn't been prepared and being critical of himself.
12-28-2020 09:00 PM
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Post: #64
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 04:43 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 04:32 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 03:36 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  What bothers me the most is he appears to throw Toppert under the bus.

The head of the snake takes that lick...Even if it is someone elses fault.

Keep it in house.

Toppert's Offense

Kids showcasing their abilities not playing as a team...Privately you can say that all you want...But you shouldn't air your dirty laundry.

Penny should take the majority of the pain and criticism publicly...He should invite it by saying he needs to get better at (X,Y,Z). But he only has one criticism for himself.

Yeah, there are several things that bother me about it. Just doesnt add up..

1. year one he said basically he just let Jeremiah do his thing.. ok, how does that offense differ from year 2 or 3 (except instead of Jeremiah its whomever has the ball).

2. I have heard Penny say numerous times "ALo knows how to run my offense" and I have heard others, color analysts, assistants, etc. etc. saying the same thing about Penny depending on ALo because he knows Penny's offense so well.

a couple of other things, but I am sure anyone reading this gets the point. It seems like some revisionism going on to justify things, and shift some of the blame.

I am glad to hear him say the bigs were going to start playing inside, but I dont believe that prior to this he didnt want them playing outside. Everytime Thomas comes into the games he starts jacking 3's like he is Reggie Miller and Penny never says a word or disciplines him for it.

I will give him a pass on Lance.

I am going to say that Lance is a better shooter in practice than he is in the games. That is the only logical reason that is allowed.

Those shots are terrible and extremely selfish....No other way to put it....Obviously why he is no longer at UL
12-28-2020 09:20 PM
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tkgrrett Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 09:00 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 07:38 PM)tkgrrett Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 07:12 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 07:00 PM)tkgrrett Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 06:11 PM)ImaTiger Wrote:  I swear to god you people just ***** to ***** and would ***** about anything...

I heard nothing in that interview that remotely disturbs me.

I heard a coach owning his job and being real about the losses, challenges, personalities, and the complexity of the challenge for his team.

I think Mr. Hardaway gets more of a pass from some of you than he is getting. Really he is doing fine. This is year 2. We are starting to treat him the way we did Yates and Finch. And look what that unfair treatment got them. You know what happened to Finch. For Christs sake; was Yates responsible for Bradley and Kilzer's off court behavior or Gun's untimely death?

******* cannibales... we eat our own; raw and uncooked.

You guys must live in an entirely different world than I do.

At my job when my team misses deadlines/targets (which we do) I have to go in with senior execs and explain it. If I ever answered with some version of what Penny said in that interview I would literally be thrown out of the room. He basically said: "I delegated the responsibility to a junior member of my team and let them run with it even though I wasnt comfortable or confident in what they were doing."

Even if its true, thats just an embarrassing thing to say out loud and makes you and your team look awful.

You would be thrown out of the room because you work at a company for people that are narrow minded, and unable to deviate from any concepts that differ from their own very limited scope.

Thankfully, successful companies don't see things the way you do. They would look at Penny and say that the fundamentals are there, the foundation has been built. Financials are in great shape, marketing is great, and most of the pieces are in place. They would look at the situation and see that they have invested so much money, and time and effort into Penny, and their approach would be to find a way to make it work; find a way for Penny to be successful.

Only idiots would just throw the team out of the room, with no attempt to pinpoint challenges and find solutions, with absolutely no backup plan. So, obviously 03-lmfao it doesn't surprise me, that that is your vision. It fits perfectly with everything else you post.

Penny wanted an NBA blueprint and he hired an NBA guy universally recognized as bright and talented to help him. It hasn't worked. Time to admit the mistake and move on to Plan B.

You miss the point entirely - I would be thrown out regardless of "concepts" because that type of statement is obviously a failure of leadership. When you are the lead you dont blame a subordinate for something you delegated to them and you definitely dont say you didnt step in when you saw things were going south because you didnt feel comfortable.

What is the solution for a coach who allows things to continue to go wrong because he doesnt feel comfortable questioning a subordinate?

Missing the point? I'm repeating what you said; your warped view of what leadership is.

It was bad enough when you said that executives would throw the team out of the room. You don't even realize that you are making yourself sound much worse (which is almost impossible) by trying to explain yourself.

Quote:By the 2007–2008 basketball season, at least 224 junior high, high school, college, and professional teams were using some form of the Dribble drive motion.

Quote:During the 2012-2013 NBA Season the Denver Nuggets led by coach George Karl implemented a version of the dribble drive offense behind point guards Ty Lawson and Andre Miller, leading them to the highest ranked offense in the NBA by points scored, and the 3rd Seed in the Western Conference, while winning a franchise best 57 games.

First of all, probably at least 90% of all coaches at every level are using an offense and a defense that someone else invented. Cal modeled our offense after Vance Walberg's dribble drive and visited with Bobby Knight. There are almost no coaches that invent offenses. When they are successful, they get copied by others.

Second, Penny wanted to run an NBA offense, so he hired Toppert who ran clinics at the NBA combine. The move behind it made sense, but it doesn't work with our players.

Third, in your world, executives yell at subordinates and throw them out of a room. Then you comically make a comment about failure of leadership. Your real life example is the worst case of **** leadership imaginable. No wonder you turned out how you did.

Penny is showing leadership by being transparent, by taking full ownership of the offense, by admitting that the team hasn't been prepared and being critical of himself.

Dude.. you arent remotely as smart as you (for some reason) think you are.

First off, no one said anything about yelling and screaming. And for context, i work/have worked in leadership roles for some of the most prestigious professional services and tech firms on earth - not that it matters, leadership expectations are the same in your local walmart region. Expectation is that leaders come in prepared for criticism and have appropriate responses and reasonable action plans.

I'll keep this simple and ignore the random stuff you threw at at the wall. In general, when taking criticism regardless of context its frowned upon to blame it on delegating to a subordinate - even if its true. In general, when you say you had the answer for what was going wrong all along people wonder why you didnt act sooner. In general, a leader doesnt take credit for what was going right (defense) while passing blame for what was going wrong.

Im talking about leadership qualities and appropriate response in the context - the % of teams using dribble drive is irrelevant, nba blueprint is irrelevant. I love Penny and want him to be successful but there have been several times he sounds like a kid BSing his way through Speech class
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2020 09:32 PM by tkgrrett.)
12-28-2020 09:31 PM
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ncrdbl1 Online
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Post: #66
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 08:55 PM)Alanda Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 04:25 PM)Stammers Wrote:  The biggest problem with Penny is that he is a loose cannon. Nobody had to know that he gave money to Wiseman's mom. The only way others would have known would be if he told someone. He didn't need to talk about winning national championships and wanting all the smoke. That was stupid. Now this comes out.

I'm not necessarily against him running the same offense he ran at East; but nobody had to know the reason why.

I agree. While the money part is a different animal IMO, Penny's too open about things. Hopefully he can find some balance between what we get and typical coach speak.

(12-28-2020 04:32 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 03:36 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  What bothers me the most is he appears to throw Toppert under the bus.

The head of the snake takes that lick...Even if it is someone elses fault.

Keep it in house.

Toppert's Offense

Kids showcasing their abilities not playing as a team...Privately you can say that all you want...But you shouldn't air your dirty laundry.

Penny should take the majority of the pain and criticism publicly...He should invite it by saying he needs to get better at (X,Y,Z). But he only has one criticism for himself.

Yeah, there are several things that bother me about it. Just doesnt add up..

1. year one he said basically he just let Jeremiah do his thing.. ok, how does that offense differ from year 2 or 3 (except instead of Jeremiah its whomever has the ball).

2. I have heard Penny say numerous times "ALo knows how to run my offense" and I have heard others, color analysts, assistants, etc. etc. saying the same thing about Penny depending on ALo because he knows Penny's offense so well.

a couple of other things, but I am sure anyone reading this gets the point. It seems like some revisionism going on to justify things, and shift some of the blame.

I am glad to hear him say the bigs were going to start playing inside, but I dont believe that prior to this he didnt want them playing outside. Everytime Thomas comes into the games he starts jacking 3's like he is Reggie Miller and Penny never says a word or disciplines him for it.

Yeah I feel the same way about some revisionism.

It's interesting that according to one of 247's more recent podcasts someone that watches the practices said they spent like 90% of practice on defense. So if true sounds like Toppert didn't have much opportunity for success to begin with.

This is even more telling since our biggest step back this year has been defensively.
12-28-2020 09:35 PM
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Memphis Yankee Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
I don't know. As a long time Director in a corporation and a business owner for three decades, when **** ain't working you ask questions. If somebody asked me what the problem is as a consultant, I'd say look at the boss. Penny's the boss. He looks like a fish out of water this year. Not sure what the hell is up. All I know is that this team looks disfunctunal and the boss ain't done **** yet to fix it.
12-28-2020 10:15 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 09:31 PM)tkgrrett Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 09:00 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 07:38 PM)tkgrrett Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 07:12 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 07:00 PM)tkgrrett Wrote:  You guys must live in an entirely different world than I do.

At my job when my team misses deadlines/targets (which we do) I have to go in with senior execs and explain it. If I ever answered with some version of what Penny said in that interview I would literally be thrown out of the room. He basically said: "I delegated the responsibility to a junior member of my team and let them run with it even though I wasnt comfortable or confident in what they were doing."

Even if its true, thats just an embarrassing thing to say out loud and makes you and your team look awful.

You would be thrown out of the room because you work at a company for people that are narrow minded, and unable to deviate from any concepts that differ from their own very limited scope.

Thankfully, successful companies don't see things the way you do. They would look at Penny and say that the fundamentals are there, the foundation has been built. Financials are in great shape, marketing is great, and most of the pieces are in place. They would look at the situation and see that they have invested so much money, and time and effort into Penny, and their approach would be to find a way to make it work; find a way for Penny to be successful.

Only idiots would just throw the team out of the room, with no attempt to pinpoint challenges and find solutions, with absolutely no backup plan. So, obviously 03-lmfao it doesn't surprise me, that that is your vision. It fits perfectly with everything else you post.

Penny wanted an NBA blueprint and he hired an NBA guy universally recognized as bright and talented to help him. It hasn't worked. Time to admit the mistake and move on to Plan B.

You miss the point entirely - I would be thrown out regardless of "concepts" because that type of statement is obviously a failure of leadership. When you are the lead you dont blame a subordinate for something you delegated to them and you definitely dont say you didnt step in when you saw things were going south because you didnt feel comfortable.

What is the solution for a coach who allows things to continue to go wrong because he doesnt feel comfortable questioning a subordinate?

Missing the point? I'm repeating what you said; your warped view of what leadership is.

It was bad enough when you said that executives would throw the team out of the room. You don't even realize that you are making yourself sound much worse (which is almost impossible) by trying to explain yourself.

Quote:By the 2007–2008 basketball season, at least 224 junior high, high school, college, and professional teams were using some form of the Dribble drive motion.

Quote:During the 2012-2013 NBA Season the Denver Nuggets led by coach George Karl implemented a version of the dribble drive offense behind point guards Ty Lawson and Andre Miller, leading them to the highest ranked offense in the NBA by points scored, and the 3rd Seed in the Western Conference, while winning a franchise best 57 games.

First of all, probably at least 90% of all coaches at every level are using an offense and a defense that someone else invented. Cal modeled our offense after Vance Walberg's dribble drive and visited with Bobby Knight. There are almost no coaches that invent offenses. When they are successful, they get copied by others.

Second, Penny wanted to run an NBA offense, so he hired Toppert who ran clinics at the NBA combine. The move behind it made sense, but it doesn't work with our players.

Third, in your world, executives yell at subordinates and throw them out of a room. Then you comically make a comment about failure of leadership. Your real life example is the worst case of **** leadership imaginable. No wonder you turned out how you did.

Penny is showing leadership by being transparent, by taking full ownership of the offense, by admitting that the team hasn't been prepared and being critical of himself.

Dude.. you arent remotely as smart as you (for some reason) think you are.

First off, no one said anything about yelling and screaming. And for context, i work/have worked in leadership roles for some of the most prestigious professional services and tech firms on earth - not that it matters, leadership expectations are the same in your local walmart region. Expectation is that leaders come in prepared for criticism and have appropriate responses and reasonable action plans.

I'll keep this simple and ignore the random stuff you threw at at the wall. In general, when taking criticism regardless of context its frowned upon to blame it on delegating to a subordinate - even if its true. In general, when you say you had the answer for what was going wrong all along people wonder why you didnt act sooner. In general, a leader doesnt take credit for what was going right (defense) while passing blame for what was going wrong.

Im talking about leadership qualities and appropriate response in the context - the % of teams using dribble drive is irrelevant, nba blueprint is irrelevant. I love Penny and want him to be successful but there have been several times he sounds like a kid BSing his way through Speech class

He didn't blame Toppert at all; not even once. He said the offense wasn't working, which it isn't. He blamed himself for not understanding it and for not being able to get the players to buy in.

Stop making excuses. It's black and white for everyone to see. It explains why you are how you are. It makes perfect sense.
12-28-2020 10:29 PM
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macgar32 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 09:31 PM)tkgrrett Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 09:00 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 07:38 PM)tkgrrett Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 07:12 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 07:00 PM)tkgrrett Wrote:  You guys must live in an entirely different world than I do.

At my job when my team misses deadlines/targets (which we do) I have to go in with senior execs and explain it. If I ever answered with some version of what Penny said in that interview I would literally be thrown out of the room. He basically said: "I delegated the responsibility to a junior member of my team and let them run with it even though I wasnt comfortable or confident in what they were doing."

Even if its true, thats just an embarrassing thing to say out loud and makes you and your team look awful.

You would be thrown out of the room because you work at a company for people that are narrow minded, and unable to deviate from any concepts that differ from their own very limited scope.

Thankfully, successful companies don't see things the way you do. They would look at Penny and say that the fundamentals are there, the foundation has been built. Financials are in great shape, marketing is great, and most of the pieces are in place. They would look at the situation and see that they have invested so much money, and time and effort into Penny, and their approach would be to find a way to make it work; find a way for Penny to be successful.

Only idiots would just throw the team out of the room, with no attempt to pinpoint challenges and find solutions, with absolutely no backup plan. So, obviously 03-lmfao it doesn't surprise me, that that is your vision. It fits perfectly with everything else you post.

Penny wanted an NBA blueprint and he hired an NBA guy universally recognized as bright and talented to help him. It hasn't worked. Time to admit the mistake and move on to Plan B.

You miss the point entirely - I would be thrown out regardless of "concepts" because that type of statement is obviously a failure of leadership. When you are the lead you dont blame a subordinate for something you delegated to them and you definitely dont say you didnt step in when you saw things were going south because you didnt feel comfortable.

What is the solution for a coach who allows things to continue to go wrong because he doesnt feel comfortable questioning a subordinate?

Missing the point? I'm repeating what you said; your warped view of what leadership is.

It was bad enough when you said that executives would throw the team out of the room. You don't even realize that you are making yourself sound much worse (which is almost impossible) by trying to explain yourself.

Quote:By the 2007–2008 basketball season, at least 224 junior high, high school, college, and professional teams were using some form of the Dribble drive motion.

Quote:During the 2012-2013 NBA Season the Denver Nuggets led by coach George Karl implemented a version of the dribble drive offense behind point guards Ty Lawson and Andre Miller, leading them to the highest ranked offense in the NBA by points scored, and the 3rd Seed in the Western Conference, while winning a franchise best 57 games.

First of all, probably at least 90% of all coaches at every level are using an offense and a defense that someone else invented. Cal modeled our offense after Vance Walberg's dribble drive and visited with Bobby Knight. There are almost no coaches that invent offenses. When they are successful, they get copied by others.

Second, Penny wanted to run an NBA offense, so he hired Toppert who ran clinics at the NBA combine. The move behind it made sense, but it doesn't work with our players.

Third, in your world, executives yell at subordinates and throw them out of a room. Then you comically make a comment about failure of leadership. Your real life example is the worst case of **** leadership imaginable. No wonder you turned out how you did.

Penny is showing leadership by being transparent, by taking full ownership of the offense, by admitting that the team hasn't been prepared and being critical of himself.

Dude.. you arent remotely as smart as you (for some reason) think you are.

First off, no one said anything about yelling and screaming. And for context, i work/have worked in leadership roles for some of the most prestigious professional services and tech firms on earth - not that it matters, leadership expectations are the same in your local walmart region. Expectation is that leaders come in prepared for criticism and have appropriate responses and reasonable action plans.

I'll keep this simple and ignore the random stuff you threw at at the wall. In general, when taking criticism regardless of context its frowned upon to blame it on delegating to a subordinate - even if its true. In general, when you say you had the answer for what was going wrong all along people wonder why you didnt act sooner. In general, a leader doesnt take credit for what was going right (defense) while passing blame for what was going wrong.

Im talking about leadership qualities and appropriate response in the context - the % of teams using dribble drive is irrelevant, nba blueprint is irrelevant. I love Penny and want him to be successful but there have been several times he sounds like a kid BSing his way through Speech class

Difference between Cal and Penny in this specific instance is...

Cal takes all the Credit and accepts all the blame...You rarely hear his assistants names. Now I don't necessarily agree with that. I think you throw praise at the people who work for you and shelter them from the fire...If they don't deserve shelter you get rid of them behind closed doors.
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2020 10:41 PM by macgar32.)
12-28-2020 10:40 PM
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Post: #70
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
Another thing that raises a flag with me as a stupid fan is what happened with the last hire for an assistant coach? Penny hires a moron to replace Miller I presume. It took forever. Why didn't more qualified assistants apply for the job? Something is not right. Nobody but this idiot wanted to be the assistant for Penny?

My point is there is something going on that would make M. Miller leave to be nothing and nobody wants to work for Penny. Somethings not right.

If I'm a journalist, I smell a story.
12-28-2020 10:45 PM
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tiger1016 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 07:16 PM)micman Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 07:02 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 06:44 PM)Herff Tiger Wrote:  I don't hear all the big brouhaha in that interview.

Cody Toppert was in charge of the offense, what I assume is supposed to be a high level offense since it is described as an NBA offense. Maybe Penny was unsure how his middle school / high school / AAU offense would work out in D1 so he didn't use it, and maybe now that he has been on the sideline for a couple of seasons he thinks it will work OK. (or perhaps is simply of the opinion that it can't be worse than what we have been doing)

Penny wanted to focus on defense. Now maybe he is seeing that we're comfortable with what he wants and feels he can divert attention to offense. The fact that he asked questions of the coach who is supposedly the staff expert on the offense is no big deal to me. It has been a common refrain on here that he needed to bring in an experienced X's and O's coach, so one must assume that he would be asking questions of that "expert" too.

Penny was so good of an offensive player that he could simply play and do his thing and make everybody around him more productive. I can understand how he can't simply "vulcan mind meld" his insight and instincts and court vision into other players and how he might be searching for something that works. Jeremiah could simply play and do his thing, but no one since him has been able to do that.

In theory, the offense should work exactly as it is. Coming out of high school, Boogie and LQ had the reputation for being deadeye shooters. DJ should be able to drive the ball and score on the average D1 defender. Nolley should be a perfect complementary piece, finding open lanes to drive or open spots for 3 pointers.

The problem is that our players aren't the equivalent to their NBA counterparts that make it all work. Wiseman was, Martin was and Dedric would have been as well. Williams should be the closest thing we have to a player that can get his own shots anywhere on the floor AND make them.

When I watch an NBA game, I see our boring, bland no motion offense "executed" by great players. None of our players are great...yet.

It's still boring and bland when its executed by NBA players.

LOL and SMH
12-28-2020 10:55 PM
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BandwagonJumper Away
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Post: #72
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 10:45 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  Another thing that raises a flag with me as a stupid fan is what happened with the last hire for an assistant coach? Penny hires a moron to replace Miller I presume. It took forever. Why didn't more qualified assistants apply for the job? Something is not right. Nobody but this idiot wanted to be the assistant for Penny?

My point is there is something going on that would make M. Miller leave to be nothing and nobody wants to work for Penny. Somethings not right.

If I'm a journalist, I smell a story.

Interesting
12-28-2020 11:25 PM
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snowtiger Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
Anyone can smell a story, but a good journalist needs to keep his mind open to all possibilities, or he/she will color the facts. lol

Some say not having Miller around is a good thing.
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2020 12:29 AM by snowtiger.)
12-29-2020 12:28 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 10:45 PM)Memphis Yankee Wrote:  Another thing that raises a flag with me as a stupid fan is what happened with the last hire for an assistant coach? Penny hires a moron to replace Miller I presume. It took forever. Why didn't more qualified assistants apply for the job? Something is not right. Nobody but this idiot wanted to be the assistant for Penny?

My point is there is something going on that would make M. Miller leave to be nothing and nobody wants to work for Penny. Somethings not right.

If I'm a journalist, I smell a story.

As the story goes, there is no budget, and it's a one year deal to help out. Whatever the truth is, hiring him was idiotic. I can't believe the school allowed it.
12-29-2020 12:29 AM
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Post: #75
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
This is a damned if Penny does and damned if Penny doesn't. If he does change the offense he has to admit the old system did not work and gets questioned why he ever ran it. If he doesn't change it then we all bemoan our horrible offense... With that in mind you can take the interview one of two ways, mainly negative or mainly positive.

Personally, I am giving Penny the benefit of the doubt here. I am much more encouraged that he recognized his very broken system (albeit very obvious), admitted it and is taking steps to correct it. That is pretty much what you want in leader when he sees his strategy is not working. The alternative if he refuse to admit its broken and continue running it.

Here is my summary of the interview
- It started off bad. He did basically take credit for the defense and then say he turned the offense over to Cody and it did not work and he (Penny) did not understand it enough to question Cody.
- He then basically blamed the players for playing for themselves and not for the team.
- Okay, had the interview ended after 2 or 3 minutes it would have been a disaster.
- As the interview, I thought he began expounding on the above and it became clear that he was not placing the blame on the players or Cody. I thought he actually accepted the blame for not stepping in quickly enough and not trusting himself and his offense enough to implement it.
- I also thought what he said about the team in South Dakota made a lot of sense. He clearly planned on Deandre being eligible by the first game and game planned accordingly. When they did not happen they basically went in unprepared. They also did not have time due to COVID to get all of their defensive presses and alignments in place.
- In the end it sounded like a 2nd or 3rd year head coach coming to the realization that he has some successes (defense) and has some failures (offense) and realizes them and is attempting to adjust accordingly. It is just my opinion but that is all you can really expect and hope for with a first time head coach only 2 seasons in...

I think there are two ways you can take the interview.
12-29-2020 01:06 AM
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Post: #76
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
I've read over and over again on this board that Penny needed to hire someone and delegate the x and o's of the offense to them, then Penny admits he was delegating the x and o's on offense to an assistant coach and the same people scream its embarrassing that he would delegate the offensive x and o's to another coach.

Classic MT.org

Hopefully the changes will right the ship for this team. This is a good test to see if Penny has the chops to turn this around this year. They are not all freshmen anymore and they have the talent to do so if the staff can figure it out.
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2020 05:29 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
12-29-2020 05:27 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #77
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-29-2020 01:06 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  This is a damned if Penny does and damned if Penny doesn't. If he does change the offense he has to admit the old system did not work and gets questioned why he ever ran it. If he doesn't change it then we all bemoan our horrible offense... With that in mind you can take the interview one of two ways, mainly negative or mainly positive.

Personally, I am giving Penny the benefit of the doubt here. I am much more encouraged that he recognized his very broken system (albeit very obvious), admitted it and is taking steps to correct it. That is pretty much what you want in leader when he sees his strategy is not working. The alternative if he refuse to admit its broken and continue running it.

Here is my summary of the interview
- It started off bad. He did basically take credit for the defense and then say he turned the offense over to Cody and it did not work and he (Penny) did not understand it enough to question Cody.
- He then basically blamed the players for playing for themselves and not for the team.
- Okay, had the interview ended after 2 or 3 minutes it would have been a disaster.
- As the interview, I thought he began expounding on the above and it became clear that he was not placing the blame on the players or Cody. I thought he actually accepted the blame for not stepping in quickly enough and not trusting himself and his offense enough to implement it.
- I also thought what he said about the team in South Dakota made a lot of sense. He clearly planned on Deandre being eligible by the first game and game planned accordingly. When they did not happen they basically went in unprepared. They also did not have time due to COVID to get all of their defensive presses and alignments in place.
- In the end it sounded like a 2nd or 3rd year head coach coming to the realization that he has some successes (defense) and has some failures (offense) and realizes them and is attempting to adjust accordingly. It is just my opinion but that is all you can really expect and hope for with a first time head coach only 2 seasons in...

I think there are two ways you can take the interview.



I take the latter.

Penny is obviously a very good defensive coach already, and he see's where he has to change and improve on offense and a few other areas.

If he is able to make those adjustments he will take the next step as a coach, if he can't it will be a slow death.

I'm a big tiger fan but my happiness in life does not revolve around a dozen 19 year old kids and an orange ball. I'm not going to cut them or the staff to pieces if its doesn't go well or walk around angry and miserable over it. I honestly feel sorry for those that do.
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2020 05:43 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
12-29-2020 05:41 AM
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Post: #78
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-29-2020 01:06 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  This is a damned if Penny does and damned if Penny doesn't. If he does change the offense he has to admit the old system did not work and gets questioned why he ever ran it. If he doesn't change it then we all bemoan our horrible offense... With that in mind you can take the interview one of two ways, mainly negative or mainly positive.

Personally, I am giving Penny the benefit of the doubt here. I am much more encouraged that he recognized his very broken system (albeit very obvious), admitted it and is taking steps to correct it. That is pretty much what you want in leader when he sees his strategy is not working. The alternative if he refuse to admit its broken and continue running it.

Here is my summary of the interview
- It started off bad. He did basically take credit for the defense and then say he turned the offense over to Cody and it did not work and he (Penny) did not understand it enough to question Cody.
- He then basically blamed the players for playing for themselves and not for the team.
- Okay, had the interview ended after 2 or 3 minutes it would have been a disaster.
- As the interview, I thought he began expounding on the above and it became clear that he was not placing the blame on the players or Cody. I thought he actually accepted the blame for not stepping in quickly enough and not trusting himself and his offense enough to implement it.
- I also thought what he said about the team in South Dakota made a lot of sense. He clearly planned on Deandre being eligible by the first game and game planned accordingly. When they did not happen they basically went in unprepared. They also did not have time due to COVID to get all of their defensive presses and alignments in place.
- In the end it sounded like a 2nd or 3rd year head coach coming to the realization that he has some successes (defense) and has some failures (offense) and realizes them and is attempting to adjust accordingly. It is just my opinion but that is all you can really expect and hope for with a first time head coach only 2 seasons in...

I think there are two ways you can take the interview.

Yeah--COVID only kept us from getting presses and alignments in place---other teams got lucky and dodged COVID.
12-29-2020 07:09 AM
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Post: #79
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
Here's my frustration.....Penny is quoted in the CA a couple of days AFTER the Tulsa loss, "“I honestly think it’s not about changing what we do. It’s just about understanding personnel", then out of the blue he now says we need to change the offense with no other game input??? That is not the expected thought progression of a coach in touch with the reality around him. And even the casual fan can easily see the lack of consistent, efficient offense since day one this season - and this with a high level of talent. And now I hear Penny may switch gears again. THE COACH NEEDS TO BE THE LEADER, HE HAS TO LEAD. This ain't leadership
12-29-2020 09:06 AM
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Post: #80
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-29-2020 09:06 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  Here's my frustration.....Penny is quoted in the CA a couple of days AFTER the Tulsa loss, "“I honestly think it’s not about changing what we do. It’s just about understanding personnel", then out of the blue he now says we need to change the offense with no other game input??? That is not the expected thought progression of a coach in touch with the reality around him. And even the casual fan can easily see the lack of consistent, efficient offense since day one this season - and this with a high level of talent. And now I hear Penny may switch gears again. THE COACH NEEDS TO BE THE LEADER, HE HAS TO LEAD. This ain't leadership

Yep that's why so many people smell bs here. Everything he says just smells like he is clueless and more importantly doesn't really prepare/research like he should. He is now saying his old offense that he is implementing had 5 guys moving... so why didn't he ask coach Toppert why his offense had no off ball movement, which even 95% of fans on here can recognize? It's OK to hire an x and o guy, you still as the head coach have to watch over the guy and make sure that the BASIC principles are in his offense that are required for ANY offense to be successful
12-29-2020 09:25 AM
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