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Stammers Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 05:48 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 05:33 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 05:03 PM)dwash Wrote:  We have a dressed up Pastner

Pastner ? Pastner ? Pastner?---is that the coach that took us to our LAST 4 tournaments ?

yep and ran the program off the cliff and couldnt even make the NIT so was chased out of town like the clown he is.

Memtigbb sure does hate making the tournament. He equates Dedric, KJ, Martin, Markel, Woodson and Marshall with running the program off the cliff. Nothing shocks me coming from you. Almost every single post you make is the opposite of reality.

Just type the opposite of what you think and you will immediately become a genius. I'm serious; it's that simple.
12-28-2020 06:55 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 05:04 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 04:55 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Ok folks, tell me exactly what Alo is going to do differently in the "East offense" besides getting more minutes?

We just need him to get the scorers the ball where they can score and stay out of the way.

We should not be counting on him to carry us...

That's all it is. If the offense had more (some?) movement, he would be by far the best option. Baugh and Boogie dribble with their heads down.
12-28-2020 06:57 PM
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tkgrrett Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 06:11 PM)ImaTiger Wrote:  I swear to god you people just ***** to ***** and would ***** about anything...

I heard nothing in that interview that remotely disturbs me.

I heard a coach owning his job and being real about the losses, challenges, personalities, and the complexity of the challenge for his team.

I think Mr. Hardaway gets more of a pass from some of you than he is getting. Really he is doing fine. This is year 2. We are starting to treat him the way we did Yates and Finch. And look what that unfair treatment got them. You know what happened to Finch. For Christs sake; was Yates responsible for Bradley and Kilzer's off court behavior or Gun's untimely death?

******* cannibales... we eat our own; raw and uncooked.

You guys must live in an entirely different world than I do.

At my job when my team misses deadlines/targets (which we do) I have to go in with senior execs and explain it. If I ever answered with some version of what Penny said in that interview I would literally be thrown out of the room. He basically said: "I delegated the responsibility to a junior member of my team and let them run with it even though I wasnt comfortable or confident in what they were doing."

Even if its true, thats just an embarrassing thing to say out loud and makes you and your team look awful.
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2020 07:00 PM by tkgrrett.)
12-28-2020 07:00 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 06:44 PM)Herff Tiger Wrote:  I don't hear all the big brouhaha in that interview.

Cody Toppert was in charge of the offense, what I assume is supposed to be a high level offense since it is described as an NBA offense. Maybe Penny was unsure how his middle school / high school / AAU offense would work out in D1 so he didn't use it, and maybe now that he has been on the sideline for a couple of seasons he thinks it will work OK. (or perhaps is simply of the opinion that it can't be worse than what we have been doing)

Penny wanted to focus on defense. Now maybe he is seeing that we're comfortable with what he wants and feels he can divert attention to offense. The fact that he asked questions of the coach who is supposedly the staff expert on the offense is no big deal to me. It has been a common refrain on here that he needed to bring in an experienced X's and O's coach, so one must assume that he would be asking questions of that "expert" too.

Penny was so good of an offensive player that he could simply play and do his thing and make everybody around him more productive. I can understand how he can't simply "vulcan mind meld" his insight and instincts and court vision into other players and how he might be searching for something that works. Jeremiah could simply play and do his thing, but no one since him has been able to do that.

In theory, the offense should work exactly as it is. Coming out of high school, Boogie and LQ had the reputation for being deadeye shooters. DJ should be able to drive the ball and score on the average D1 defender. Nolley should be a perfect complementary piece, finding open lanes to drive or open spots for 3 pointers.

The problem is that our players aren't the equivalent to their NBA counterparts that make it all work. Wiseman was, Martin was and Dedric would have been as well. Williams should be the closest thing we have to a player that can get his own shots anywhere on the floor AND make them.

When I watch an NBA game, I see our boring, bland no motion offense "executed" by great players. None of our players are great...yet.
12-28-2020 07:02 PM
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ncrdbl1 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
Our offense has actually improved over last year. 73.3 ppg this year compared to 72 ppg last year.
12-28-2020 07:03 PM
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memtigbb Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 06:11 PM)ImaTiger Wrote:  I swear to god you people just ***** to ***** and would ***** about anything...

I heard nothing in that interview that remotely disturbs me.

I heard a coach owning his job and being real about the losses, challenges, personalities, and the complexity of the challenge for his team.

I think Mr. Hardaway gets more of a pass from some of you than he is getting. Really he is doing fine. This is year 2. We are starting to treat him the way we did Yates and Finch. And look what that unfair treatment got them. You know what happened to Finch. For Christs sake; was Yates responsible for Bradley and Kilzer's off court behavior or Gun's untimely death?

******* cannibales... we eat our own; raw and uncooked.

It is year 3.
12-28-2020 07:03 PM
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TubbyBall Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 06:11 PM)ImaTiger Wrote:  I swear to god you people just ***** to ***** and would ***** about anything...

I heard nothing in that interview that remotely disturbs me.

I heard a coach owning his job and being real about the losses, challenges, personalities, and the complexity of the challenge for his team.

I think Mr. Hardaway gets more of a pass from some of you than he is getting. Really he is doing fine. This is year 2. We are starting to treat him the way we did Yates and Finch. And look what that unfair treatment got them. You know what happened to Finch. For Christs sake; was Yates responsible for Bradley and Kilzer's off court behavior or Gun's untimely death?

******* cannibales... we eat our own; raw and uncooked.


Agree completely. This is the only season I have been disappointed in this far. penny will be fine
12-28-2020 07:10 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 07:00 PM)tkgrrett Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 06:11 PM)ImaTiger Wrote:  I swear to god you people just ***** to ***** and would ***** about anything...

I heard nothing in that interview that remotely disturbs me.

I heard a coach owning his job and being real about the losses, challenges, personalities, and the complexity of the challenge for his team.

I think Mr. Hardaway gets more of a pass from some of you than he is getting. Really he is doing fine. This is year 2. We are starting to treat him the way we did Yates and Finch. And look what that unfair treatment got them. You know what happened to Finch. For Christs sake; was Yates responsible for Bradley and Kilzer's off court behavior or Gun's untimely death?

******* cannibales... we eat our own; raw and uncooked.

You guys must live in an entirely different world than I do.

At my job when my team misses deadlines/targets (which we do) I have to go in with senior execs and explain it. If I ever answered with some version of what Penny said in that interview I would literally be thrown out of the room. He basically said: "I delegated the responsibility to a junior member of my team and let them run with it even though I wasnt comfortable or confident in what they were doing."

Even if its true, thats just an embarrassing thing to say out loud and makes you and your team look awful.

You would be thrown out of the room because you work at a company for people that are narrow minded, and unable to deviate from any concepts that differ from their own very limited scope.

Thankfully, successful companies don't see things the way you do. They would look at Penny and say that the fundamentals are there, the foundation has been built. Financials are in great shape, marketing is great, and most of the pieces are in place. They would look at the situation and see that they have invested so much money, and time and effort into Penny, and their approach would be to find a way to make it work; find a way for Penny to be successful.

Only idiots would just throw the team out of the room, with no attempt to pinpoint challenges and find solutions, with absolutely no backup plan. So, obviously 03-lmfao it doesn't surprise me, that that is your vision. It fits perfectly with everything else you post.

Penny wanted an NBA blueprint and he hired an NBA guy universally recognized as bright and talented to help him. It hasn't worked. Time to admit the mistake and move on to Plan B.
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2020 07:24 PM by Stammers.)
12-28-2020 07:12 PM
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micman Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 07:02 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 06:44 PM)Herff Tiger Wrote:  I don't hear all the big brouhaha in that interview.

Cody Toppert was in charge of the offense, what I assume is supposed to be a high level offense since it is described as an NBA offense. Maybe Penny was unsure how his middle school / high school / AAU offense would work out in D1 so he didn't use it, and maybe now that he has been on the sideline for a couple of seasons he thinks it will work OK. (or perhaps is simply of the opinion that it can't be worse than what we have been doing)

Penny wanted to focus on defense. Now maybe he is seeing that we're comfortable with what he wants and feels he can divert attention to offense. The fact that he asked questions of the coach who is supposedly the staff expert on the offense is no big deal to me. It has been a common refrain on here that he needed to bring in an experienced X's and O's coach, so one must assume that he would be asking questions of that "expert" too.

Penny was so good of an offensive player that he could simply play and do his thing and make everybody around him more productive. I can understand how he can't simply "vulcan mind meld" his insight and instincts and court vision into other players and how he might be searching for something that works. Jeremiah could simply play and do his thing, but no one since him has been able to do that.

In theory, the offense should work exactly as it is. Coming out of high school, Boogie and LQ had the reputation for being deadeye shooters. DJ should be able to drive the ball and score on the average D1 defender. Nolley should be a perfect complementary piece, finding open lanes to drive or open spots for 3 pointers.

The problem is that our players aren't the equivalent to their NBA counterparts that make it all work. Wiseman was, Martin was and Dedric would have been as well. Williams should be the closest thing we have to a player that can get his own shots anywhere on the floor AND make them.

When I watch an NBA game, I see our boring, bland no motion offense "executed" by great players. None of our players are great...yet.

It's still boring and bland when its executed by NBA players.
12-28-2020 07:16 PM
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tkgrrett Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 07:03 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  Our offense has actually improved over last year. 73.3 ppg this year compared to 72 ppg last year.

Those ppg are essentially the same so not much of a story there.. overall though we were #210 last year in Adj Off so not much place to go but up.

We are a still awful #138 on Adj Off this year but out defense is a bit worse so net impact is we have basically the exact same kenpom rank as last year (#60 this year vs #59 last year). Issue this year though is we have no big non-conf wins and the AAC looks worse than last year so those numbers could very well get worse over time
12-28-2020 07:17 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 07:16 PM)micman Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 07:02 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 06:44 PM)Herff Tiger Wrote:  I don't hear all the big brouhaha in that interview.

Cody Toppert was in charge of the offense, what I assume is supposed to be a high level offense since it is described as an NBA offense. Maybe Penny was unsure how his middle school / high school / AAU offense would work out in D1 so he didn't use it, and maybe now that he has been on the sideline for a couple of seasons he thinks it will work OK. (or perhaps is simply of the opinion that it can't be worse than what we have been doing)

Penny wanted to focus on defense. Now maybe he is seeing that we're comfortable with what he wants and feels he can divert attention to offense. The fact that he asked questions of the coach who is supposedly the staff expert on the offense is no big deal to me. It has been a common refrain on here that he needed to bring in an experienced X's and O's coach, so one must assume that he would be asking questions of that "expert" too.

Penny was so good of an offensive player that he could simply play and do his thing and make everybody around him more productive. I can understand how he can't simply "vulcan mind meld" his insight and instincts and court vision into other players and how he might be searching for something that works. Jeremiah could simply play and do his thing, but no one since him has been able to do that.

In theory, the offense should work exactly as it is. Coming out of high school, Boogie and LQ had the reputation for being deadeye shooters. DJ should be able to drive the ball and score on the average D1 defender. Nolley should be a perfect complementary piece, finding open lanes to drive or open spots for 3 pointers.

The problem is that our players aren't the equivalent to their NBA counterparts that make it all work. Wiseman was, Martin was and Dedric would have been as well. Williams should be the closest thing we have to a player that can get his own shots anywhere on the floor AND make them.

When I watch an NBA game, I see our boring, bland no motion offense "executed" by great players. None of our players are great...yet.

It's still boring and bland when its executed by NBA players.

It sucks, it's not an offense, but it's the NBA so it works.
12-28-2020 07:28 PM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
IF you had Dedric, Precious, Martin, Boogie, Williams and Wiseman, you could run our offense with no point guard in sight and would probably be able to challenge for a national title. Every player on the list could create their own shot.
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2020 07:30 PM by Stammers.)
12-28-2020 07:30 PM
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micman Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 05:03 PM)dwash Wrote:  We have a dressed up Pastner

Based on what he said in the interview, he's the exact opposite of Pastner. Probably the biggest criticism of Pastner was that he didn't trust any of his assistants enough to give up control and delegate (he wanted to "be in charge of everything"). Penny trusted his assistant coach enough to let him install and coach an offense that even Penny didn't even fully understand.

Frankly, I don't understand the criticism. I don't see why this is any different from Norvell coaching the offense and letting his DC coach the defense.

When Penny realized that it wasn't working, he owned up to the fact that this arrangement didn't allow him to make in-game adjustments quickly enough, so he's adjusting how he goes about things.

I don't remember Pastner ever owning up to anything that wasn't working or ever delegating authority to anyone.
12-28-2020 07:30 PM
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macgar32 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 07:30 PM)micman Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 05:03 PM)dwash Wrote:  We have a dressed up Pastner

Based on what he said in the interview, he's the exact opposite of Pastner. Probably the biggest criticism of Pastner was that he didn't trust any of his assistants enough to give up control and delegate (he wanted to "be in charge of everything"). Penny trusted his assistant coach enough to let him install and coach an offense that even Penny didn't even fully understand.

Frankly, I don't understand the criticism. I don't see why this is any different from Norvell coaching the offense and letting his DC coach the defense.

When Penny realized that it wasn't working, he owned up to the fact that this arrangement didn't allow him to make in-game adjustments quickly enough, so he's adjusting how he goes about things.

I don't remember Pastner ever owning up to anything that wasn't working or ever delegating authority to anyone.

Pastner openly admitted that his assistant coaches did all the scouts and gameplans for opponents. How much he listened to their input I cannot say.

But Penny is not owning anything right now. He shouldn't have brought up Topperts name at all...He should have said our offense was not working and he changed it...He should own the shortcoming and say he is going to fix it.
12-28-2020 07:37 PM
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tkgrrett Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 07:12 PM)Stammers Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 07:00 PM)tkgrrett Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 06:11 PM)ImaTiger Wrote:  I swear to god you people just ***** to ***** and would ***** about anything...

I heard nothing in that interview that remotely disturbs me.

I heard a coach owning his job and being real about the losses, challenges, personalities, and the complexity of the challenge for his team.

I think Mr. Hardaway gets more of a pass from some of you than he is getting. Really he is doing fine. This is year 2. We are starting to treat him the way we did Yates and Finch. And look what that unfair treatment got them. You know what happened to Finch. For Christs sake; was Yates responsible for Bradley and Kilzer's off court behavior or Gun's untimely death?

******* cannibales... we eat our own; raw and uncooked.

You guys must live in an entirely different world than I do.

At my job when my team misses deadlines/targets (which we do) I have to go in with senior execs and explain it. If I ever answered with some version of what Penny said in that interview I would literally be thrown out of the room. He basically said: "I delegated the responsibility to a junior member of my team and let them run with it even though I wasnt comfortable or confident in what they were doing."

Even if its true, thats just an embarrassing thing to say out loud and makes you and your team look awful.

You would be thrown out of the room because you work at a company for people that are narrow minded, and unable to deviate from any concepts that differ from their own very limited scope.

Thankfully, successful companies don't see things the way you do. They would look at Penny and say that the fundamentals are there, the foundation has been built. Financials are in great shape, marketing is great, and most of the pieces are in place. They would look at the situation and see that they have invested so much money, and time and effort into Penny, and their approach would be to find a way to make it work; find a way for Penny to be successful.

Only idiots would just throw the team out of the room, with no attempt to pinpoint challenges and find solutions, with absolutely no backup plan. So, obviously 03-lmfao it doesn't surprise me, that that is your vision. It fits perfectly with everything else you post.

Penny wanted an NBA blueprint and he hired an NBA guy universally recognized as bright and talented to help him. It hasn't worked. Time to admit the mistake and move on to Plan B.

You miss the point entirely - I would be thrown out regardless of "concepts" because that type of statement is obviously a failure of leadership. When you are the lead you dont blame a subordinate for something you delegated to them and you definitely dont say you didnt step in when you saw things were going south because you didnt feel comfortable.

What is the solution for a coach who allows things to continue to go wrong because he doesnt feel comfortable questioning a subordinate?
12-28-2020 07:38 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 07:00 PM)tkgrrett Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 06:11 PM)ImaTiger Wrote:  I swear to god you people just ***** to ***** and would ***** about anything...

I heard nothing in that interview that remotely disturbs me.

I heard a coach owning his job and being real about the losses, challenges, personalities, and the complexity of the challenge for his team.

I think Mr. Hardaway gets more of a pass from some of you than he is getting. Really he is doing fine. This is year 2. We are starting to treat him the way we did Yates and Finch. And look what that unfair treatment got them. You know what happened to Finch. For Christs sake; was Yates responsible for Bradley and Kilzer's off court behavior or Gun's untimely death?

******* cannibales... we eat our own; raw and uncooked.

You guys must live in an entirely different world than I do.

At my job when my team misses deadlines/targets (which we do) I have to go in with senior execs and explain it. If I ever answered with some version of what Penny said in that interview I would literally be thrown out of the room. He basically said: "I delegated the responsibility to a junior member of my team and let them run with it even though I wasnt comfortable or confident in what they were doing."

Even if its true, thats just an embarrassing thing to say out loud and makes you and your team look awful.

yep---and add --irresponslble --incompetent --derelict --disinterested look
12-28-2020 07:56 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 07:30 PM)Stammers Wrote:  IF you had Dedric, Precious, Martin, Boogie, Williams and Wiseman, you could run our offense with no point guard in sight and would probably be able to challenge for a national title. Every player on the list could create their own shot.

...or --Parks--Lee--CDR--Bedford---Bradley--Vaughn ---Bird---Russell--Wilt
12-28-2020 08:05 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 07:30 PM)micman Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 05:03 PM)dwash Wrote:  We have a dressed up Pastner

Based on what he said in the interview, he's the exact opposite of Pastner. Probably the biggest criticism of Pastner was that he didn't trust any of his assistants enough to give up control and delegate (he wanted to "be in charge of everything"). Penny trusted his assistant coach enough to let him install and coach an offense that even Penny didn't even fully understand.

Frankly, I don't understand the criticism. I don't see why this is any different from Norvell coaching the offense and letting his DC coach the defense.

When Penny realized that it wasn't working, he owned up to the fact that this arrangement didn't allow him to make in-game adjustments quickly enough, so he's adjusting how he goes about things.

I don't remember Pastner ever owning up to anything that wasn't working or ever delegating authority to anyone.

Pastner ?---Is that the guy that took us to our last 4 trnys ?
12-28-2020 08:06 PM
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ImaTiger Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 07:56 PM)jsw3ent Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 07:00 PM)tkgrrett Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 06:11 PM)ImaTiger Wrote:  I swear to god you people just ***** to ***** and would ***** about anything...

I heard nothing in that interview that remotely disturbs me.

I heard a coach owning his job and being real about the losses, challenges, personalities, and the complexity of the challenge for his team.

I think Mr. Hardaway gets more of a pass from some of you than he is getting. Really he is doing fine. This is year 2. We are starting to treat him the way we did Yates and Finch. And look what that unfair treatment got them. You know what happened to Finch. For Christs sake; was Yates responsible for Bradley and Kilzer's off court behavior or Gun's untimely death?

******* cannibales... we eat our own; raw and uncooked.

You guys must live in an entirely different world than I do.

At my job when my team misses deadlines/targets (which we do) I have to go in with senior execs and explain it. If I ever answered with some version of what Penny said in that interview I would literally be thrown out of the room. He basically said: "I delegated the responsibility to a junior member of my team and let them run with it even though I wasnt comfortable or confident in what they were doing."

Even if its true, thats just an embarrassing thing to say out loud and makes you and your team look awful.

yep---and add --irresponslble --incompetent --derelict --disinterested look

There is nothing irresponsible, incompetent, dishonest in his interview. His interview is honest, sincere, professional, and hopeful for the city, team and future of these players. You two don't see it because you are miserable-s.

As far as working in a living in a different place. I completely agree. I recommend you get out of the correctional industry. You're becoming one of the people you lock up.

You guys are making crap up because you have small brains and are repressed. Go find a **** parade and so you can flag waiver.

Memphis is going places with Penny. Hate you two are going to miss it.
12-28-2020 08:06 PM
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tkgrrett Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Penny says he's changing offense because ......
(12-28-2020 07:37 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 07:30 PM)micman Wrote:  
(12-28-2020 05:03 PM)dwash Wrote:  We have a dressed up Pastner

Based on what he said in the interview, he's the exact opposite of Pastner. Probably the biggest criticism of Pastner was that he didn't trust any of his assistants enough to give up control and delegate (he wanted to "be in charge of everything"). Penny trusted his assistant coach enough to let him install and coach an offense that even Penny didn't even fully understand.

Frankly, I don't understand the criticism. I don't see why this is any different from Norvell coaching the offense and letting his DC coach the defense.

When Penny realized that it wasn't working, he owned up to the fact that this arrangement didn't allow him to make in-game adjustments quickly enough, so he's adjusting how he goes about things.

I don't remember Pastner ever owning up to anything that wasn't working or ever delegating authority to anyone.

Pastner openly admitted that his assistant coaches did all the scouts and gameplans for opponents. How much he listened to their input I cannot say.

But Penny is not owning anything right now. He shouldn't have brought up Topperts name at all...He should have said our offense was not working and he changed it...He should own the shortcoming and say he is going to fix it.

EXACTLY - this guy gets it. You dont "own up" by completely placing the blame on a subordinate and then saying you had the secret answer in your back pocket the whole time but just let your guy flail for a 1/4 of the season while your team mentally imploded
12-28-2020 08:08 PM
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