(12-15-2020 06:18 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  ATU: it's ALL opinion and perspective. It seems KC and Chicago are soliciting the opinions of Native Americans WRT the nicknames. I don't have an issue with the NAME "Brave" but it's IMPOSSIBLE to argue that the iconography isn't problematic.

You may be right in that the iconography is problematic but you haven’t made an objective case for it to convince everyone that the opposite of your position is impossible to defend.

The reason is because it’s not impossible. You may not be convinced by arguments that’s it’s not problematic and that’s okay. But to make a subjective argument with objective statements is where it all breaks down.

(12-14-2020 02:02 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Is it? I’ve heard rumblings about the Texas Rangers name. Note that the New York Rangers are tangentially named the Rangers because of the Texas Rangers. There’s a lot hate towards Lewis & Clark - the idea behind the Trail Blazers. With the 1619 Project, I can see why the 76ers name would be on the chopping block. Vikings are depicted as barbaric which seems to be offensive to many. I do wonder if using the Spanish word Padres is going too far. I truly don’t know how other people take these names. It may be best to avoid names that elude to any people if that’s the case.

The 1619 Project isn't a credible threat to anything. But corporations trying to align with the twitter winds (combined with talking heads) is what is driving this, IMO.

As someone mentioned, what is offensive is a matter of opinion. For example; the US Army names their helos after Native American tribes. Specifically the UH-60 is known as the Blackhawk. Will that still be acceptable? If so, why would it get a pass over the hockey team?

Furthermore, E6 and above ranks in the Navy are known as Chief Petty Officers. Again, what are the standards of acceptability?

(12-16-2020 01:12 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(12-15-2020 01:04 PM)cubucks Wrote:  

(12-15-2020 12:51 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(12-14-2020 06:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  Redskins needed to go.

Indians is pretty innocuous. But its not a silly change. Don't think the Indian presence was ever very significant around Cleveland.

If the Chiefs or Braves get changed, that's just stupid.

The Chief Wahoo was what made it really bad. A number of my native American friends have all commented that if they had dropped the Chief Wahoo years ago, and the other faux-native stuff (foam tomahawks, etc) then the name itself wouldn't have bothered them. It was the whole package that made it offensive and degrading.

That's a staple at Atlanta Braves games.

The "Rev." Deion Sanders brought the tomahawk chop with him to the Braves from Fla State when he played for both the Braves and the Falcons in the '90s. Before that, they never did any chopping in Atlanta for Braves games, so you can blame him, but BLM would then be on your azz. I am more offended by the Falcons as they have been offending sports fans for decades with their poor play and terrible uniforms that get worse and worse every time they change them. Go Falcons, and take the Hawks with you! But leave the Braves alone--the only Atlanta sports team worth a darn.

I'm not offended by anything, my skin is thick. I was just pointing out that the Braves are known for their foam tomahawks. It may offend others? But I can only speak for myself. I enjoy Braves games and the chant of the crowd all in sync.

(12-17-2020 08:14 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  For example; the US Army names their helos after Native American tribes. Specifically the UH-60 is known as the Blackhawk. Will that still be acceptable? If so, why would it get a pass over the hockey team?

Black Hawk was a tribal chief, not the name of a tribe or band. The NHL team even has a page about him on its website: https://www.nhl.com/blackhawks/fans/about-black-hawk

(12-17-2020 09:14 PM)cubucks Wrote:  I'm not offended by anything, my skin is thick. I was just pointing out that the Braves are known for their foam tomahawks. It may offend others? But I can only speak for myself. I enjoy Braves games and the chant of the crowd all in sync.

I just don't know why people don't like foam? It's a great insulator. Maybe they're just cold people.