W&M posted a tweet highlighting that Nathan Knight was the 2nd Tribe player to play in an NBA game. Someone in the replies asked if he was actually the third, mentioning a player named Andy Duncan.

Here's where it gets odd, the reply from W&M: https://twitter.com/WMTribeMBB/status/13...8758368256

"Andy Duncan did not play at William & Mary in Virginia. He played at William & Mary in Kentucky."

Looking up Andy Duncan online, every reference I've found has him being born in Virginia and attending our William and Mary.

However, looking up our all time basketball roster (https://tribeathletics.com/sports/2015/1...spx?id=133) and year by year stats, no Andy Duncan exists. Looking up Kentucky teams of that ere, and no Andy Duncan either (http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statist...-45.html).

I've been unable to find any snippet or info about a William and Mary in Kentucky , and it's not listed on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co...itutions), which is normally pretty good at these type of things.

I'll keep doing some digging, but if anyone has any ideas or information, please share.

I think I've solved it. Andy Duncan went to Kentucky as a freshman and then transferred to William and Mary for the next year, but then went into the military during WWII. He played professionally while in the service and after his time in the service. I can't find anything that says he played on our basketball team.

https://probasketballencyclopedia.com/pl...dy-duncan/

It looks like there's a now defunct St. Mary's College in Kentucky that had a decent basketball program. Not a great lead but the only thing I've found so far.

(12-24-2020 11:10 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I think I've solved it. Andy Duncan went to Kentucky as a freshman and then transferred to William and Mary for the next year, but then went into the military during WWII. He played professionally while in the service and after his time in the service. I can't find anything that says he played on our basketball team.

https://probasketballencyclopedia.com/pl...dy-duncan/

Yeah, that seems pretty likely, thanks. The years don't quite match up with what other sources have, but records back then weren't always kept well.

My only other thought was there was some temporary war time college called WM in Kentucky, but I'd think some reference to it would exist somewhere, and I've found nothing.

I checked a few yearbooks quick (ctrl-F for Duncan) and couldn't find him in any of them (1941, 42, 44, 47 were the ones I checked, but not in a wildly thorough way). Could be he only attended for a semester or something

https://digitalarchive.wm.edu/handle/102...s?offset=0

He had a reasonably solid pro career too, playing in over 100 games for Rochester and Boston. Would be kinda neat, albeit ultimately meaningless, if we could claim him as an alum of sorts, but it's tough to find info.

Also, did one of you guys find this page?

http://peachbasketsociety.blogspot.com/2...uncan.html

There's a comment from today - "Hello! Do you have copies of or links to any of the newspaper articles saying Duncan attended William & Mary? I have had no luck finding them."

(12-24-2020 11:57 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  Also, did one of you guys find this page?

http://peachbasketsociety.blogspot.com/2...uncan.html

There's a comment from today - "Hello! Do you have copies of or links to any of the newspaper articles saying Duncan attended William & Mary? I have had no luck finding them."

That was me. I'm convinced he didn't play for W&M. I just looked through the old Flat Hats from the '41-'42 season and the '42-'43 season. He wasn't on the team.

We had pretty good teams those years btw!

He did go to Kentucky, for one year, then transferred to W&M (1942-43).
I would agree with the theory that he got drafted before being able to suit up for The Indians.

I searched through the write-ups for each season, between 1943 and 1947, and he did not appear in any box scores (Glen Knox was the star, even Les Hooker showed up).
Anybody good enough to play in the NBA, would have shown up in a box score, somewhere, as many teams, W&M included, were usually short-handed, due to the ongoing draft of soldiers.

It certainly doesn't look like he played on the Kentucky freshman team in '40-'41 either

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statist...1940s.html

(12-24-2020 12:13 PM)billymac Wrote:  He did go to Kentucky, for one year, then transferred to W&M (1942-43).
I would agree with the theory that he got drafted before being able to suit up for The Indians.

I searched through the write-ups for each season, between 1943 and 1947, and he did not appear in any box scores (Glen Knox was the star, even Les Hooker showed up).
Anybody good enough to play in the NBA, would have shown up in a box score, somewhere, as many teams, W&M included, were usually short-handed, due to the ongoing draft of soldiers.

I think this is it.

In the 1943 yearbook there is an Andrew Duncan listed on page 195 (but no picture)

Oddly enough the other sources list his years as 1941-1942, or 1944-1947, skipping 1943

https://digitalarchive.wm.edu/handle/10288/2193

I tried to find a program for one of the Rochester or Boston NBA teams he played for, but no luck

Just as one final check, I paged through some historic records for several other Kentucky teams (UK, Louisville, Western Kentucky, Bellarmine, Murray State) and couldn't find any games against a Kentucky W&M, so as we've been suspecting for a while I don't think Tribe basketball's tweet about a Kentucky W&M is accurate.

We might turn up some more information, and nobody is in the office right now anyway, but I plan to send an email to the SID in a few days detailing what we found.

Typossssss...

While he certainly fits the mold of a TWAMP, I dont believe he'd have a chance in the NBA

(12-24-2020 01:38 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  Typossssss...

While he certainly fits the mold of a TWAMP, I dont believe he'd have a chance in the NBA

Dang it, I made the Andy Dick mistake on about a third of my google searches today.

On top of that, I was also getting Andy Dick and Andy Daly mixed up. Celebrities/names just aren't my thing

(12-24-2020 10:24 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  W&M posted a tweet highlighting that Nathan Knight was the 2nd Tribe player to play in an NBA game. Someone in the replies asked if he was actually the third, mentioning a player named Andy Duncan.

Here's where it gets odd, the reply from W&M: https://twitter.com/WMTribeMBB/status/13...8758368256

"Andy Duncan did not play at William & Mary in Virginia. He played at William & Mary in Kentucky."

Looking up Andy Duncan online, every reference I've found has him being born in Virginia and attending our William and Mary.

However, looking up our all time basketball roster (https://tribeathletics.com/sports/2015/1...spx?id=133) and year by year stats, no Andy Duncan exists. Looking up Kentucky teams of that ere, and no Andy Duncan either (http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statist...-45.html).

I've been unable to find any snippet or info about a William and Mary in Kentucky , and it's not listed on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co...itutions), which is normally pretty good at these type of things.

I'll keep doing some digging, but if anyone has any ideas or information, please share.

Wait, Ive got the answer. This makes that Forgotten 4 look even worse though...

(12-24-2020 12:40 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(12-24-2020 12:13 PM)billymac Wrote:  He did go to Kentucky, for one year, then transferred to W&M (1942-43).
I would agree with the theory that he got drafted before being able to suit up for The Indians.

I searched through the write-ups for each season, between 1943 and 1947, and he did not appear in any box scores (Glen Knox was the star, even Les Hooker showed up).
Anybody good enough to play in the NBA, would have shown up in a box score, somewhere, as many teams, W&M included, were usually short-handed, due to the ongoing draft of soldiers.

I think this is it.

In the 1943 yearbook there is an Andrew Duncan listed on page 195 (but no picture)

Oddly enough the other sources list his years as 1941-1942, or 1944-1947, skipping 1943

https://digitalarchive.wm.edu/handle/10288/2193

I tried to find a program for one of the Rochester or Boston NBA teams he played for, but no luck

Interesting that a lot of our best athletes at the time were in that frat. Knox, Vanderweghe, Smidl, Ramsey, Harvey Johnson, Cottrell. Seems like the frat a future NBA basketball player would be in...

https://twitter.com/WMTribeMBB/status/13...96736?s=20

Looks like the SID confirmed that Duncan did not play or graduate from WM.

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(12-26-2020 08:35 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  https://twitter.com/WMTribeMBB/status/13...96736?s=20

Looks like the SID confirmed that Duncan did not play or graduate from WM.

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Thanks.

I think the theory we have here - he attended WM for a year, didn't graduate or play basketball, then joined the military and picked up basketball there - makes the most sense. He probably wrote W&M on his NBA draft application (or however they did it back then) because it was the college he most recently had attended, which is why a lot of places have him listed as a WM alum.