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Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
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PicksUp Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
(12-25-2020 12:08 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  
(12-25-2020 12:01 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  10 conference Champs and 6 at large.

Day 1 every team in FBS can make the tournament. Conference games mean more because that's what gets you to the playoffs.

Could lead to more exciting OOC because scheduling because 1 loss doesn't do you in like it does now.

Bama is clearly better than everyone. Maybe the G5 teams bow out early every year, maybe a team like Cinci or Boise makes a deep run. Any Given Saturday.

I dont think you repurpose the bowls.
I say you do this separately from the bowl system. Basically everyone finishes the season, 16 teams are invited to the tournament and everyone else is free to bowl game.


For games like the Rose that take best BIG AND PAC, they are welcome to compete -

"Hey Big 10 champ, you are invited to attend the tournament and prove that you're the best? Oh, You'd rather go to Pasadena, okay well Big10 runner up you're in." - eventually someone will step in
agree and the bowl system that was always wrong and gave way to the BCS system that gave way to the committee system should now die off

Life isnt fair. Nobody deserves anything. If you dont provide any value (monetarily or otherwise) you dont deserve to be in a playoff.

If you want playoffs go to 1AA. Enough with the everyone gets a trophy mentality.
12-25-2020 01:09 PM
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BullsFanInTX Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
(12-25-2020 01:09 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  
(12-25-2020 12:08 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  
(12-25-2020 12:01 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  10 conference Champs and 6 at large.

Day 1 every team in FBS can make the tournament. Conference games mean more because that's what gets you to the playoffs.

Could lead to more exciting OOC because scheduling because 1 loss doesn't do you in like it does now.

Bama is clearly better than everyone. Maybe the G5 teams bow out early every year, maybe a team like Cinci or Boise makes a deep run. Any Given Saturday.

I dont think you repurpose the bowls.
I say you do this separately from the bowl system. Basically everyone finishes the season, 16 teams are invited to the tournament and everyone else is free to bowl game.


For games like the Rose that take best BIG AND PAC, they are welcome to compete -

"Hey Big 10 champ, you are invited to attend the tournament and prove that you're the best? Oh, You'd rather go to Pasadena, okay well Big10 runner up you're in." - eventually someone will step in
agree and the bowl system that was always wrong and gave way to the BCS system that gave way to the committee system should now die off

Life isnt fair. Nobody deserves anything. If you dont provide any value (monetarily or otherwise) you dont deserve to be in a playoff.

If you want playoffs go to 1AA. Enough with the everyone gets a trophy mentality.

LOL. Like monetary value should have anything to do with whether you deserve to be in the playoffs. Like, maybe, it should be, who actually has the best teams, regardless of "monetary value".

I mean heck, the Dallas Cowboys have more monetary value than the Jacksonville Jaguars, but you know what, since they both play in the same league (NFL), they both have equal access to the playoffs based on performance. Should the Dallas Cowboys be given greater access to the playoffs due to their monetary value?

Any team that plays in the same league (FBS football), should be given the same access to a "playoff" as any other team in that league.

As you know, every single other league in the entire world does. In fact, give me one other league in the world that decides it's champion the way FBS football does. Just one example. Please.
12-25-2020 02:50 PM
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BullsFanInTX Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
(12-25-2020 10:18 AM)Crayton Wrote:  
(12-25-2020 09:42 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  
(12-24-2020 04:54 PM)Crayton Wrote:  
(12-24-2020 10:36 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Crayton: there ARE at-larges! It's just that losing your CCG is a prerequisite.

I’ll then repeat my opinion that putting Louisiana, Tulsa, and Buffalo/Boise in this tournament is silly when you are excluding Texas A&M and Indiana.
actually it’s not silly, it’s how real playoffs work
but it’s what the autonomous conferences will hold onto and is their stranglehold on recruiting
a real playoff system for the G5 that ended in a collegiate super bowl with the A5 would make the G5 much more attractive for top level recruits and then in turn make college football a lot more fun

I mean, once Tulsa loses to Cincy, Louisiana loses to Coastal (assuming a Championship game), Buffalo loses to Ball State, and Boise loses to SJSU, those teams should be eliminated. Right?

Not according to the OP.

Buffalo, as the third worst G5 loser gets over conference champions UAB and Ball State (who they just lost to)??? Not to mention the #5 team stays at home during a 16-team playoff.

Hey, there is a way to do 16 teams, but unranked non-champion teams have ZERO reason be big involved. If you’re putting in CCG losers, at least Northwestern and USC are ranked.

Rankings are meaningless and subjective. Usually based off of perceived talent and the name on the front of the jersey, history, and name recognition. A poor way to determine worthiness.
12-25-2020 02:54 PM
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
(12-25-2020 02:54 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  
(12-25-2020 10:18 AM)Crayton Wrote:  
(12-25-2020 09:42 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  
(12-24-2020 04:54 PM)Crayton Wrote:  
(12-24-2020 10:36 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Crayton: there ARE at-larges! It's just that losing your CCG is a prerequisite.

I’ll then repeat my opinion that putting Louisiana, Tulsa, and Buffalo/Boise in this tournament is silly when you are excluding Texas A&M and Indiana.
actually it’s not silly, it’s how real playoffs work
but it’s what the autonomous conferences will hold onto and is their stranglehold on recruiting
a real playoff system for the G5 that ended in a collegiate super bowl with the A5 would make the G5 much more attractive for top level recruits and then in turn make college football a lot more fun

I mean, once Tulsa loses to Cincy, Louisiana loses to Coastal (assuming a Championship game), Buffalo loses to Ball State, and Boise loses to SJSU, those teams should be eliminated. Right?

Not according to the OP.

Buffalo, as the third worst G5 loser gets over conference champions UAB and Ball State (who they just lost to)??? Not to mention the #5 team stays at home during a 16-team playoff.

Hey, there is a way to do 16 teams, but unranked non-champion teams have ZERO reason be big involved. If you’re putting in CCG losers, at least Northwestern and USC are ranked.

Rankings are meaningless and subjective. Usually based off of perceived talent and the name on the front of the jersey, history, and name recognition. A poor way to determine worthiness.

What makes Marshall or Boise or Buffalo worthy AFTER losing their CCG? That is my initial point.
12-25-2020 03:20 PM
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LUOrange Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
In my opinion, a 12 or 16 team playoff is the only fair solution for FBS. 12 teams would be the minimum, and 16 is the preferred.

12 teams: 10 conference champs and 2 at large. At larges are 2 highest ranked non-conference champs. Seeding is done by rankings. 1-4 get a first round bye, with 5-12 being round 1.

16 teams: 10 conference champs and 6 at large. At larges are 6 highest ranked non-conference champs. Seeding is determined by rankings.

Playoffs are played in January. Higher ranked teams host. Semis and/or finals are at predetermined sites.

Bowl games are still available for non-playoff teams and played in December.

Independents can qualify as at-large teams. This would make G5's happy because it gives them credibility as their champs have legit shot at winning just like in every other sport. P5's and Notre Dame should be happy because their probability of winning remains high as are the likelihood that they take all 2-6 at large spots.

Every FBS team has a theoretical shot at the playoffs in this scenario, just as in every other sport. Of course, it won't happen because the NCAA and the P5 are hypocrites and won't want to cede control or elevate the G5 in any way.
12-25-2020 03:51 PM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
LU: love your system! It's the MOST fair way to treat G5 teams.
12-25-2020 04:26 PM
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andy98 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
Have these 12 games on championship weekend. Then have the winners advance to the 12 team playoff. That way every team in the country will have a clear path to the playoffs.

SEC Championship
ACC Championship
Big Ten Championship
Pac Championship
Big Twelve Championship
AAC Championship
MW Championship
SB Championship
CUSA Championship
MAC Championship
At large #1 vs At large #4
At large #2 vs At large #3
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2020 03:19 PM by andy98.)
12-28-2020 12:28 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
(12-25-2020 03:51 PM)LUOrange Wrote:  Every FBS team has a theoretical shot at the playoffs in this scenario, just as in every other sport. Of course, it won't happen because the NCAA and the P5 are hypocrites and won't want to cede control or elevate the G5 in any way.

FWIW, the NCAA does not have anything to do with the CFP or any other FBS playoff system. You can blame the NCAA for many things, but not for that.

As for expanded playoffs for G5, what is the incentive for the P5 to do it? You can't expect anyone to do anything if there isn't something in it for them.

And don't tell me "the money will be bigger" because that has not been confirmed by anyone.
12-28-2020 12:59 PM
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ChrisLords Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
(12-24-2020 12:48 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Chris: so you want to ignore half of FBS?

No, that's just the way I see this panning out. Few things could threaten the P5 power base more than a G5 team winning the CFP.
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2020 04:10 AM by ChrisLords.)
12-29-2020 04:09 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
(12-25-2020 02:50 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  LOL. Like monetary value should have anything to do with whether you deserve to be in the playoffs. Like, maybe, it should be, who actually has the best teams, regardless of "monetary value".

I mean heck, the Dallas Cowboys have more monetary value than the Jacksonville Jaguars, but you know what, since they both play in the same league (NFL), they both have equal access to the playoffs based on performance. Should the Dallas Cowboys be given greater access to the playoffs due to their monetary value?

Any team that plays in the same league (FBS football), should be given the same access to a "playoff" as any other team in that league.

As you know, every single other league in the entire world does. In fact, give me one other league in the world that decides it's champion the way FBS football does. Just one example. Please.

Funny you mention the Cowboys in 2020, who have the potential to get into the postseason with a losing record. This will occur while a 10-6 or 11-5 AFC will be left out. Please tell me how that scenario is fair?

As for examples that replicate the FBS model, it can't be done because no other association exists where the 130 teams individually (via the conferences) own the postseason as opposed to some overarching authority. That the majority of said teams would prefer a playoffs yet choose not to create one without the SEC, B1G, P12, P10 and ACC speaks volumes.
12-30-2020 07:37 AM
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utpotts Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
(12-23-2020 09:23 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  We might need a subforum for Erictelevision threads.

Well they are starting to reach DavidSt levels.....
12-30-2020 08:19 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
(12-30-2020 07:37 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(12-25-2020 02:50 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  LOL. Like monetary value should have anything to do with whether you deserve to be in the playoffs. Like, maybe, it should be, who actually has the best teams, regardless of "monetary value".

I mean heck, the Dallas Cowboys have more monetary value than the Jacksonville Jaguars, but you know what, since they both play in the same league (NFL), they both have equal access to the playoffs based on performance. Should the Dallas Cowboys be given greater access to the playoffs due to their monetary value?

Any team that plays in the same league (FBS football), should be given the same access to a "playoff" as any other team in that league.

As you know, every single other league in the entire world does. In fact, give me one other league in the world that decides it's champion the way FBS football does. Just one example. Please.

Funny you mention the Cowboys in 2020, who have the potential to get into the postseason with a losing record. This will occur while a 10-6 or 11-5 AFC will be left out. Please tell me how that scenario is fair?

It's not, but sports fans have been conditioned to accept absurd outcomes like this on the grounds that the rule is "objective" and "we all knew what the rules were going in", as if that makes a bad objective rule any less bad.
12-30-2020 10:17 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
(12-25-2020 03:51 PM)LUOrange Wrote:  In my opinion, a 12 or 16 team playoff is the only fair solution for FBS. 12 teams would be the minimum, and 16 is the preferred.

12 teams: 10 conference champs and 2 at large.

IMO, it makes no sense to give the same formal status in playoffs to say the SEC and the MAC. Winning the SEC is obviously far more of an achievement every year. That is systematically true in a way that differences in division quality in say the NFL aren't.

The only way the MAC champ would deserve an auto-bid to the playoffs would be in a G5-only playoff.
12-30-2020 10:20 AM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
NOBODY forces you to read them!
12-30-2020 03:57 PM
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ChrisLords Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
(12-30-2020 10:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-25-2020 03:51 PM)LUOrange Wrote:  In my opinion, a 12 or 16 team playoff is the only fair solution for FBS. 12 teams would be the minimum, and 16 is the preferred.

12 teams: 10 conference champs and 2 at large.

IMO, it makes no sense to give the same formal status in playoffs to say the SEC and the MAC. Winning the SEC is obviously far more of an achievement every year. That is systematically true in a way that differences in division quality in say the NFL aren't.

The only way the MAC champ would deserve an auto-bid to the playoffs would be in a G5-only playoff.

In FCS, not every conference gets a auto-bid. I don't see why it should be that way in FBS.
12-30-2020 09:56 PM
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46566 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
Why not Conference champs (10) top ranked or best record indy school (1) plus best remaining schools (5) most P5 conferences get 2 schools in. Have the top 8 ranked teams host the first round. Basically the indy, at large or 2 weakest conferences are the away teams. Could be at home site or closest bowl.
12-31-2020 01:16 AM
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Post: #57
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
I prefer the 6 traditional conferences plus a 7th conference consisting of the traditional Eastern Indies. Thus creating 7 conferences of 10 teams. This field ultimately creates the potential of 7 sharks in ponds as opposed to what we are seeing today with Bama and Clemson then to a lesser extent with Ohio State. With this format 7 teams will get automatic bids with 9 others earning at large bids. Meaning on an average year the conferences will get 2 teams in the playoffs and with 2-3 conferences getting 3 teams in. In theory this would create more parity in the game because a 10-2 or even 9-3 team has a chance to still win the national title making it easier to recruit blue chip recruits. As we stand today, Bama has something like 17 5* recruits to Notre Dame's 1. With more opportunities one would think those recruits would've been dispersed to more schools as opposed to Clemson and Bama. I posted my 7 conference format https://csnbbs.com/thread-913860.html.
12-31-2020 01:38 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
(12-30-2020 10:17 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-30-2020 07:37 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(12-25-2020 02:50 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  LOL. Like monetary value should have anything to do with whether you deserve to be in the playoffs. Like, maybe, it should be, who actually has the best teams, regardless of "monetary value".

I mean heck, the Dallas Cowboys have more monetary value than the Jacksonville Jaguars, but you know what, since they both play in the same league (NFL), they both have equal access to the playoffs based on performance. Should the Dallas Cowboys be given greater access to the playoffs due to their monetary value?

Any team that plays in the same league (FBS football), should be given the same access to a "playoff" as any other team in that league.

As you know, every single other league in the entire world does. In fact, give me one other league in the world that decides it's champion the way FBS football does. Just one example. Please.

Funny you mention the Cowboys in 2020, who have the potential to get into the postseason with a losing record. This will occur while a 10-6 or 11-5 AFC will be left out. Please tell me how that scenario is fair?

It's not, but sports fans have been conditioned to accept absurd outcomes like this on the grounds that the rule is "objective" and "we all knew what the rules were going in", as if that makes a bad objective rule any less bad.

I don't think the objective of the NFL's playoff format is 'bad'. Situations like the above could be eliminated is there were only two division in each conference. But the possibility of not having an NFC east team in the playoff is a non-starter for the league and the networks. The same scenario exists in the NBA and its E/W playoff format. The top 16 would be more fair but those Eastern Conferences teams like having the guaranteed spots.

I'm just tired of the postseason being venerated as the only way to crown a champion because teams get to 'prove it on the field'. As if there aren't externalities in the set-up of the playoff that undermine the 'winner is the best team' narrative. at this point I accept that no one will be happy until FBS has a postseason the models DIV-II.
12-31-2020 07:19 AM
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Sactowndog Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
(12-24-2020 11:00 AM)indianasniff Wrote:  12 is the only number that makes sense. A number 1 team playing a Sunbelt or CUSA champ in round 1 is just not a competitive enough game to justify the travel. If a 12 is playing a 5 that would make a huge difference


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

While this statement is likely true I think it ignores a couple points...

1) having a legitimate seat at the table will improve the recruits for top G5 teams most likely at the expense of bottom feeding P5 teams.

2) the top teams will have the same attitude making them ripe for upsets.

3) the other teams will be up for the game. The USC-Fresno game still makes highlight shows with Bush’s run-back and I would expect to see games like that one.

College football needs to go to a 16 play-off model before it manages itself into the next baseball.
01-01-2021 01:41 PM
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Fairest way to do a 16 team playoff (post covid obviously)
(01-01-2021 01:41 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(12-24-2020 11:00 AM)indianasniff Wrote:  12 is the only number that makes sense. A number 1 team playing a Sunbelt or CUSA champ in round 1 is just not a competitive enough game to justify the travel. If a 12 is playing a 5 that would make a huge difference


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

While this statement is likely true I think it ignores a couple points...

1) having a legitimate seat at the table will improve the recruits for top G5 teams most likely at the expense of bottom feeding P5 teams.

2) the top teams will have the same attitude making them ripe for upsets.

3) the other teams will be up for the game. The USC-Fresno game still makes highlight shows with Bush’s run-back and I would expect to see games like that one.

College football needs to go to a 16 play-off model before it manages itself into the next baseball.

If you have a weekend set aside for 5v12, the networks are going to want to see #s 1-4 playing that weekend too. The way things are now I do think CCGs+Sweet Sixteen is too many games. 16v1 is made easier if on #1s campus (and it likely doesn’t matter if it’s #13 or #16, have a committee a lot the sacrificial lambs based on geography).

The first step forward is turning the CCGs into a P5-controlled first round. Whether this is arranging for up to 3 “Wild Card” games alongside the P5 CCGs or consolidating the P5 CCGs into 4 Quarterfinals (likely 5 champs+3 at large) is unknown.
01-01-2021 01:58 PM
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