(12-24-2020 01:38 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  I would like to get people's opinions about if they think our problems will be corrected and will we improve and compete for the SoCon championship? I am hoping we improve as we seem to have the pieces on the team. Is there any feeling these problems will plague us the rest of the year?

No, will not compete for championship unless Bucs pull upsets in the tournament (if there is a tourney). Too many issues on both offense and defense and the defensive issues are pretty glaring right now.

Next year might be the Bucs year.

(12-24-2020 02:28 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  

(12-24-2020 01:38 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  I would like to get people's opinions about if they think our problems will be corrected and will we improve and compete for the SoCon championship? I am hoping we improve as we seem to have the pieces on the team. Is there any feeling these problems will plague us the rest of the year?

No, will not compete for championship unless Bucs pull upsets in the tournament (if there is a tourney). Too many issues on both offense and defense and the defensive issues are pretty glaring right now.

Next year might be the Bucs year.

Agreed

Wofford went 8-10 in the league the year after their great run 2018-19, and still got to the SoCon championship game as we all know. I wouldn't be surprised to see us mirror something like that this year, unfortunately.

In a horrible environment, lost practice time, lost games, losing your head coach and all but one assistant, 3 returning starters either transfer or decide to forgo their senior year, leaving only one player from last years roster with any experience. 11 new players and a new staff and people are complaining about the team and coaches before the conference schedule. What unrealistic expectations.

I just want to see Shay get a little fired up.

(12-24-2020 11:42 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  In a horrible environment, lost practice time, lost games, losing your head coach and all but one assistant, 3 returning starters either transfer or decide to forgo their senior year, leaving only one player from last years roster with any experience. 11 new players and a new staff and people are complaining about the team and coaches before the conference schedule. What unrealistic expectations.

I'm not gonna wade deeply into this..................but the complaints I see here are those that I listed earlier in this thread - particularly concerning the second half: "(LACK OF) desire, poise, hustle, intensity etc., etc.". If you were happy with that then your expectations are too low. Most of us here aren't expecting a great season. But we are - at least partly because Shay said that's his expectations, too - expecting the effort and intensity. And *that* is *NOT* an unrealistic expectation; a walk-on in high school should be giving that. *That* has nothing to do with being new or inexperienced.
I may be limiting this too much, but that's the complaining I see. And it's warranted. Whether that's on the coach, the players, or both, nobody can know yet. And absolutely - that was only 1 half of 1 game, so that may have been an aberration. We'll see.

I never heard a coach yet that didn't say he expected to win. That's coach talk. We all know that or should. To say that's the reason for high expectations is foolish.

ETSU basketball is a mid major program, not a power 6. That simply means less talented players than a P6 team. Occasionally a mid major program will have a player or two that were overlooked or improved to the status of a P6 player and defeats a P6 team. There are and will be a lot of these matchups that the mid major will scare the pants off a P6 team and sometimes pull the upset.

P6 talent is bigger, faster and more experienced. P6 teams practice against P6 players. 90% or more play the mid level schools on their home floor. Before the game starts the P6 team has all the factors in their favor, including the refs.

Alabama had the better players on the floor. The Bucs played well until the foul problems started to mount. When you are in foul trouble, aggressive, hard play goes away. As an example, our back up center came into the game because our starter had two fouls. He got two fouls in 15 sec and was back on the bench. Why, freshman mistakes, inexperience and playing against superior talent. All of the Bucs bigs had 4 fouls. As a player you naturally back away. In most positions you are already at a disadvantage in size and speed. Playing with foul trouble just exacerbates the disadvantages. No amount of yelling or passion will make up for the difference in talent level. If it did, Hoffman would have been a world beater. We all saw Wes ( UNCC ) cost his team at least two games last year with his antics and Forbes said his technical in the SoCon tournament cost his team dearly and he promised he wouldn't do it again. As far as I know he kept his word.

Yelling at players in practice, running suicides or telling them to hit the showers is a totally different situation than a game. If anything the coaches have to keep a calm and authoritative voice in the midst of players poor decisions, uncertainty and losing on the scoreboard. That's not an easy task.

I can accept the loss at Bama, but the narrow victory over Lee was telling.

Telling what?

(12-25-2020 07:17 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  I never heard a coach yet that didn't say he expected to win. That's coach talk. We all know that or should. To say that's the reason for high expectations is foolish.

ETSU basketball is a mid major program, not a power 6. That simply means less talented players than a P6 team. Occasionally a mid major program will have a player or two that were overlooked or improved to the status of a P6 player and defeats a P6 team. There are and will be a lot of these matchups that the mid major will scare the pants off a P6 team and sometimes pull the upset.

P6 talent is bigger, faster and more experienced. P6 teams practice against P6 players. 90% or more play the mid level schools on their home floor. Before the game starts the P6 team has all the factors in their favor, including the refs.

Alabama had the better players on the floor. The Bucs played well until the foul problems started to mount. When you are in foul trouble, aggressive, hard play goes away. As an example, our back up center came into the game because our starter had two fouls. He got two fouls in 15 sec and was back on the bench. Why, freshman mistakes, inexperience and playing against superior talent. All of the Bucs bigs had 4 fouls. As a player you naturally back away. In most positions you are already at a disadvantage in size and speed. Playing with foul trouble just exacerbates the disadvantages. No amount of yelling or passion will make up for the difference in talent level. If it did, Hoffman would have been a world beater. We all saw Wes ( UNCC ) cost his team at least two games last year with his antics and Forbes said his technical in the SoCon tournament cost his team dearly and he promised he wouldn't do it again. As far as I know he kept his word.

Yelling at players in practice, running suicides or telling them to hit the showers is a totally different situation than a game. If anything the coaches have to keep a calm and authoritative voice in the midst of players poor decisions, uncertainty and losing on the scoreboard. That's not an easy task.

I think we all knew every bit of that already. Altho not sure what that last paragraph is supposed to imply. What I saw was beyond and more than that (referring to the major part of your post). I saw dejection and laxity. And it wasn't fatigue. Guys quit trying, especially inside. It wasn't everybody - but several. While I realize foul trouble was an issue, it went well past that. I can go pick 5 guys at Carver or wherever and get more than 1 offensive rebound in that game, I would posit.

And just for the record and clarity..........................I haven't bad-mouthed this team in *any* way so far this season - and I really think that's nearly uniformly true for all of us. We know what this team is facing. But lack of effort, even if occasional and temporary, is not something we're used to seeing. That's why this half stood out. If not for Monsanto, we might have lost that game by 25 - after being down 1 at halftime.

(12-25-2020 11:58 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  Telling what?

posterformerlyknownasthedoctor answered it best

If not for Monsanto.....
If not for Shackleford shooting lights out..26pts Bucs win
If, if...if is after the fact..if isn't reality.

Who sees Monsanto staying until his senior year?

(12-26-2020 04:02 PM)squeak Wrote:  Who sees Monsanto staying until his senior year?

It's a fool's errand trying to predict that stuff these days. Not meaning you (or anyone else who wishes to speculate) are a fool, of course - just that it's way impossible guesstimate those things.
But.........................if i was a bookmaker...............I'd go about 30% yes; 70% no.

(12-26-2020 01:40 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(12-25-2020 07:17 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  I never heard a coach yet that didn't say he expected to win. That's coach talk. We all know that or should. To say that's the reason for high expectations is foolish.

ETSU basketball is a mid major program, not a power 6. That simply means less talented players than a P6 team. Occasionally a mid major program will have a player or two that were overlooked or improved to the status of a P6 player and defeats a P6 team. There are and will be a lot of these matchups that the mid major will scare the pants off a P6 team and sometimes pull the upset.

P6 talent is bigger, faster and more experienced. P6 teams practice against P6 players. 90% or more play the mid level schools on their home floor. Before the game starts the P6 team has all the factors in their favor, including the refs.

Alabama had the better players on the floor. The Bucs played well until the foul problems started to mount. When you are in foul trouble, aggressive, hard play goes away. As an example, our back up center came into the game because our starter had two fouls. He got two fouls in 15 sec and was back on the bench. Why, freshman mistakes, inexperience and playing against superior talent. All of the Bucs bigs had 4 fouls. As a player you naturally back away. In most positions you are already at a disadvantage in size and speed. Playing with foul trouble just exacerbates the disadvantages. No amount of yelling or passion will make up for the difference in talent level. If it did, Hoffman would have been a world beater. We all saw Wes ( UNCC ) cost his team at least two games last year with his antics and Forbes said his technical in the SoCon tournament cost his team dearly and he promised he wouldn't do it again. As far as I know he kept his word.

Yelling at players in practice, running suicides or telling them to hit the showers is a totally different situation than a game. If anything the coaches have to keep a calm and authoritative voice in the midst of players poor decisions, uncertainty and losing on the scoreboard. That's not an easy task.

I think we all knew every bit of that already. Altho not sure what that last paragraph is supposed to imply. What I saw was beyond and more than that (referring to the major part of your post). I saw dejection and laxity. And it wasn't fatigue. Guys quit trying, especially inside. It wasn't everybody - but several. While I realize foul trouble was an issue, it went well past that. I can go pick 5 guys at Carver or wherever and get more than 1 offensive rebound in that game, I would posit.

And just for the record and clarity..........................I haven't bad-mouthed this team in *any* way so far this season - and I really think that's nearly uniformly true for all of us. We know what this team is facing. But lack of effort, even if occasional and temporary, is not something we're used to seeing. That's why this half stood out. If not for Monsanto, we might have lost that game by 25 - after being down 1 at halftime.

I think most of us would have clearly have nvested /gambled or whatever on 2019's ETSU team being better than this years. Expectations were not for them to win 30 games. Too much stacked against them. Hopefully as they get more experience together, their chemistry will get better. By the end of the year who knows ? Nevertheless, as stated earlier it is hard to win a game without getting some floor burns going after loose balls etc. The lack of consistent effort is what concerns most me most at this time. Just my 2 cents worth. And .... GO BUCS.

(12-27-2020 09:53 AM)JWBUC Wrote:  

(12-26-2020 01:40 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(12-25-2020 07:17 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  I never heard a coach yet that didn't say he expected to win. That's coach talk. We all know that or should. To say that's the reason for high expectations is foolish.

ETSU basketball is a mid major program, not a power 6. That simply means less talented players than a P6 team. Occasionally a mid major program will have a player or two that were overlooked or improved to the status of a P6 player and defeats a P6 team. There are and will be a lot of these matchups that the mid major will scare the pants off a P6 team and sometimes pull the upset.

P6 talent is bigger, faster and more experienced. P6 teams practice against P6 players. 90% or more play the mid level schools on their home floor. Before the game starts the P6 team has all the factors in their favor, including the refs.

Alabama had the better players on the floor. The Bucs played well until the foul problems started to mount. When you are in foul trouble, aggressive, hard play goes away. As an example, our back up center came into the game because our starter had two fouls. He got two fouls in 15 sec and was back on the bench. Why, freshman mistakes, inexperience and playing against superior talent. All of the Bucs bigs had 4 fouls. As a player you naturally back away. In most positions you are already at a disadvantage in size and speed. Playing with foul trouble just exacerbates the disadvantages. No amount of yelling or passion will make up for the difference in talent level. If it did, Hoffman would have been a world beater. We all saw Wes ( UNCC ) cost his team at least two games last year with his antics and Forbes said his technical in the SoCon tournament cost his team dearly and he promised he wouldn't do it again. As far as I know he kept his word.

Yelling at players in practice, running suicides or telling them to hit the showers is a totally different situation than a game. If anything the coaches have to keep a calm and authoritative voice in the midst of players poor decisions, uncertainty and losing on the scoreboard. That's not an easy task.

I think we all knew every bit of that already. Altho not sure what that last paragraph is supposed to imply. What I saw was beyond and more than that (referring to the major part of your post). I saw dejection and laxity. And it wasn't fatigue. Guys quit trying, especially inside. It wasn't everybody - but several. While I realize foul trouble was an issue, it went well past that. I can go pick 5 guys at Carver or wherever and get more than 1 offensive rebound in that game, I would posit.

And just for the record and clarity..........................I haven't bad-mouthed this team in *any* way so far this season - and I really think that's nearly uniformly true for all of us. We know what this team is facing. But lack of effort, even if occasional and temporary, is not something we're used to seeing. That's why this half stood out. If not for Monsanto, we might have lost that game by 25 - after being down 1 at halftime.

I think most of us would have clearly have nvested /gambled or whatever on 2019's ETSU team being better than this years. Expectations were not for them to win 30 games. Too much stacked against them. Hopefully as they get more experience together, their chemistry will get better. By the end of the year who knows ? Nevertheless, as stated earlier it is hard to win a game without getting some floor burns going after loose balls etc. The lack of consistent effort is what concerns most me most at this time. Just my 2 cents worth. And .... GO BUCS.

I think Wednesday's night game with WCU will be a good indicator for us. The Cats did everything BUT beat us last year at Freedom Hall. They are an improved program and I cannot wait to see how the Bucs have prepared and made themselves better for this game. I look forward to it. Go Bucs!!

(12-27-2020 11:38 AM)bucfan81 Wrote:  

(12-27-2020 09:53 AM)JWBUC Wrote:  

(12-26-2020 01:40 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(12-25-2020 07:17 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  I never heard a coach yet that didn't say he expected to win. That's coach talk. We all know that or should. To say that's the reason for high expectations is foolish.

ETSU basketball is a mid major program, not a power 6. That simply means less talented players than a P6 team. Occasionally a mid major program will have a player or two that were overlooked or improved to the status of a P6 player and defeats a P6 team. There are and will be a lot of these matchups that the mid major will scare the pants off a P6 team and sometimes pull the upset.

P6 talent is bigger, faster and more experienced. P6 teams practice against P6 players. 90% or more play the mid level schools on their home floor. Before the game starts the P6 team has all the factors in their favor, including the refs.

Alabama had the better players on the floor. The Bucs played well until the foul problems started to mount. When you are in foul trouble, aggressive, hard play goes away. As an example, our back up center came into the game because our starter had two fouls. He got two fouls in 15 sec and was back on the bench. Why, freshman mistakes, inexperience and playing against superior talent. All of the Bucs bigs had 4 fouls. As a player you naturally back away. In most positions you are already at a disadvantage in size and speed. Playing with foul trouble just exacerbates the disadvantages. No amount of yelling or passion will make up for the difference in talent level. If it did, Hoffman would have been a world beater. We all saw Wes ( UNCC ) cost his team at least two games last year with his antics and Forbes said his technical in the SoCon tournament cost his team dearly and he promised he wouldn't do it again. As far as I know he kept his word.

Yelling at players in practice, running suicides or telling them to hit the showers is a totally different situation than a game. If anything the coaches have to keep a calm and authoritative voice in the midst of players poor decisions, uncertainty and losing on the scoreboard. That's not an easy task.

I think we all knew every bit of that already. Altho not sure what that last paragraph is supposed to imply. What I saw was beyond and more than that (referring to the major part of your post). I saw dejection and laxity. And it wasn't fatigue. Guys quit trying, especially inside. It wasn't everybody - but several. While I realize foul trouble was an issue, it went well past that. I can go pick 5 guys at Carver or wherever and get more than 1 offensive rebound in that game, I would posit.

And just for the record and clarity..........................I haven't bad-mouthed this team in *any* way so far this season - and I really think that's nearly uniformly true for all of us. We know what this team is facing. But lack of effort, even if occasional and temporary, is not something we're used to seeing. That's why this half stood out. If not for Monsanto, we might have lost that game by 25 - after being down 1 at halftime.

I think most of us would have clearly have nvested /gambled or whatever on 2019's ETSU team being better than this years. Expectations were not for them to win 30 games. Too much stacked against them. Hopefully as they get more experience together, their chemistry will get better. By the end of the year who knows ? Nevertheless, as stated earlier it is hard to win a game without getting some floor burns going after loose balls etc. The lack of consistent effort is what concerns most me most at this time. Just my 2 cents worth. And .... GO BUCS.

I think Wednesday's night game with WCU will be a good indicator for us. The Cats did everything BUT beat us last year at Freedom Hall. They are an improved program and I cannot wait to see how the Bucs have prepared and made themselves better for this game. I look forward to it. Go Bucs!!

Agreed. Hoping for a good performance. Go Bucs

(12-27-2020 11:38 AM)bucfan81 Wrote:  I think Wednesday's night game with WCU will be a good indicator for us. The Cats did everything BUT beat us last year at Freedom Hall. They are an improved program and I cannot wait to see how the Bucs have prepared and made themselves better for this game. I look forward to it. Go Bucs!!

This, I think, is accurate. ETSU both needs to respond, improve, and see "what they're made of" against this team. We need to find "an identity" and then grow it. With all the new faces, it's a bit too early to *expect* an identity to gel, but the longer it takes, the more the growing pains will be pains.

I have been a huge ETSU MBB fan for many decades. I believe we have the nucleus this year to be a good team and a better team next year. With that said I feel that we are not quite ready for this season. Our only hope is that the rest of the Socon is not ready either.....Go Bucs

(12-27-2020 02:17 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(12-27-2020 11:38 AM)bucfan81 Wrote:  I think Wednesday's night game with WCU will be a good indicator for us. The Cats did everything BUT beat us last year at Freedom Hall. They are an improved program and I cannot wait to see how the Bucs have prepared and made themselves better for this game. I look forward to it. Go Bucs!!

This, I think, is accurate. ETSU both needs to respond, improve, and see "what they're made of" against this team. We need to find "an identity" and then grow it. With all the new faces, it's a bit too early to *expect* an identity to gel, but the longer it takes, the more the growing pains will be pains.

Doc is correct again