Army is not joining that football conference. You bring in Army and Rice to the West Division, maybe they’ll listen.

(12-17-2020 08:42 AM)esayem Wrote:  Army is not joining that football conference. You bring in Army and Rice to the West Division, maybe they’ll listen.

Army was in a conference and got out for football scheduling flexibility.

(12-17-2020 08:50 AM)EKUSteve Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 08:42 AM)esayem Wrote:  Army is not joining that football conference. You bring in Army and Rice to the West Division, maybe they’ll listen.

Army was in a conference and got out for football scheduling flexibility.

I understand that, which is why it is highly unlikely Army joins a football conference.

Although, Army and Navy reps sat down with reps of Tulane, Rice, SMU, and Tulsa about creating a conference once before. This would be that idea within a division.

(12-17-2020 08:42 AM)esayem Wrote:  Army is not joining that football conference. You bring in Army and Rice to the West Division, maybe they’ll listen.

Of all those schools, I felt the most likely to balk would be Air Force rather than Army. My reasoning is that AFA has the fewest good options for their other sports and for OOC opponents in football. Army already has homes for all their other sports, and has a wealth of potential opponents OOC in football, including some traditional rivals like Syracuse and Boston College, in their back yard. The biggest question for Army is whether they would be afraid of being outclassed in AAC football. Otherwise, they have as much reason to want to play in Texas as Navy does and being in this western division gives them a truly national schedule.

If AFA did balk, I would add Hawaii instead, which is already FB only in the MWC. They would allow Navy to raise the flag in the Pacific fleet every year (alternating away games at Hawaii and San Diego). Hawaii would also give the AAC great Week Zero exposure, which ESPN might appreciate.

(12-16-2020 11:06 PM)46566 Wrote:  I honestly see all sports to the PAC 12 or football only to the AAC as Boises only options. Boise State wouldn't move the needle for either the Big 12 or Pac 12 but at least the PAC 12 has schools close enough in Washington and Oregon. They fill out UConn's football spot and should give the AAC to look into olympic sport invite with another school. Though I don't think they add much to the tv revenue.

The P12 would never take Boise.

(12-17-2020 01:18 AM)46566 Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 11:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 11:06 PM)46566 Wrote:  I honestly see all sports to the PAC 12 or football only to the AAC as Boises only options.

I don't think the PAC or even the AAC is a viable option for Boise, which is why I think this coach is just blowing smoke that won't amount to anything.

The only possible realistic option is dumping the Olympic sports in the WAC or WCC (big step down) and going independent in football. But they must see how independence hasn't actually worked out for BYU.

I agree about blowing smoke. Honestly the only team I see having independence working in the MWC is Hawaii because it's olympic sports are already separate from the MWC and week 0 gives schools the option to rearrange late season conference games if they want to play hawaii.
I don't know how Boise State could bring in teams to play in Idaho in November. At least UConn could possibly offer a away basketball game or something as a offering for a neutral or late home game.

I'm actually curious if Boise State is actually overvalued by the tv contract and people because of their past success. I'm wondering if the MWC actually needs Boise State long term. Should Boise State leave a obviously NMSU would most likely be added while a obvious huge step down in football quality it could be a slight uptick in basketball quality. Would UTEP be interested in a MWC invite or want to stay in the C-USA? I'm also wondering if it's worth keeping Wyoming if UTEP says yes. It's just to me trips to Wyoming doesn't make much sense without a Idaho school.

The University of Wyoming, and much of the state's population, is in the southeast corner of the state. Nebraska played at Wyoming as recently as 2010 because Laramie is closer than Lincoln to much of Western Nebraska.

Wyoming's biggest rivalry is with Colorado State. They've played 106 times, and there's a tradition of the visiting team's ROTC detachment running from their campus to the home team's stadium to deliver the game ball.

(12-17-2020 08:39 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 07:29 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I still maintain that the best solution is for the AAC to add 3 Western members for all sports: BYU, Boise St, and AFA/SDSU.

You have the 3 newcomers join Wich St/Navy, Tulsa, SMU, and Houston in a West division.

With the best of the West now in the AAC it’s a de facto P6. Unless the MAC/SBC/C-USA/MWC produce an undefeated champ and the AAC champ has multiple losses the AAC champ is pretty much a lock for the NY6.

Elsewhere I had suggested that the AAC think bigger.

West: Army, Navy, Air Force, BYU, Boise, San Diego State, SMU and Houston

East: Cincinnati, Temple, East Carolina, UCF, USF, Memphis, Tulane and Tulsa

All the new adds and Navy are football only. The other ten schools, are all sports and Wichita State is Olympic Sports only.

This would likely require that ESPN guarantee the champion a seat at the NY6 table when the CFP deal is renegotiated.

I think Air Force likes being paired with Colorado St as well, but someone with a little more knowledge of both can correct me if that's not accurate

How bout Air Force and North Colorado to the Summit to give them 12. Air Force football to AAC West and North Colorado football to the WAC

(12-17-2020 08:39 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 07:29 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I still maintain that the best solution is for the AAC to add 3 Western members for all sports: BYU, Boise St, and AFA/SDSU.

You have the 3 newcomers join Wich St/Navy, Tulsa, SMU, and Houston in a West division.

With the best of the West now in the AAC it’s a de facto P6. Unless the MAC/SBC/C-USA/MWC produce an undefeated champ and the AAC champ has multiple losses the AAC champ is pretty much a lock for the NY6.

Do the people actually making the decisions at Houston, SMU, and Tulsa want that? Do they get giddy at the idea of having to send their teams out there? SMU and Tulsa shared a conference with those schools and couldn’t wait to get back East. Houston didn’t consider it from the beginning. It’s a non-starter.

The situation in the WAC 16 was a bit more complicated than what you’re implying. Tulsa, SMU, TCU, and Rice were all very happy to be in the WAC 16 and the hope was that their past SWC pedigree coupled with the up and coming quality of the major old WAC players and the Big West schools that had come in could put them on the same level as the Big East/ACC/etc.

Then things started to crumble. The WAC was included in the BCS, they weren’t getting the bowls they wanted or the tv money, and the Airport 5 pulled the plug and took with them 3 more (2 of which hosted bowl games in their stadiums).

It wasn’t until Tulsa, Rice, SMU, TCU, and Rice got saddled with far away San Jose St, Fresno St, and Hawaii (schools they’d rarely make trips to in the WAC 16) as their only other conference mates that Tulsa and the Texas schools started looking Eastward.

I can’t speak for today’s Tulsa and SMU administrations but I think their ultimate goal is to be considered as part of “the club” and if in order to secure that they have to make some flights to Utah and Idaho instead of Philadelphia, NC, and FL then that’s the cost of achieving their goal.

(12-16-2020 11:06 PM)46566 Wrote:  I honestly see all sports to the PAC 12 or football only to the AAC as Boises only options. Boise State wouldn't move the needle for either the Big 12 or Pac 12 but at least the PAC 12 has schools close enough in Washington and Oregon. They fill out UConn's football spot and should give the AAC to look into olympic sport invite with another school. Though I don't think they add much to the tv revenue.

The biggest question is where to dump it's olympic sports. Does the Big Sky want a third Idaho school? The Big West is happy with California schools and travel subsidy hawaii. Would they add much to a WCC payout of increase tv exposure? About the only conference that would take them is the WAC and that's it the whole expansion with the Southland schools is a bust.

So basically no options.

(12-17-2020 01:30 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 12:53 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 12:17 AM)blazr Wrote:  I think football-only memberships have gone the way of the Titanic. The Big East debacle, which was the C7 saying they’d had enough of FBS jockeying and shuffling which put their schedules & opponents up in the air, was both the unavoidable critical mass of those deals and the highly visible consequence.

Once a conf steps on that path there is no turning back and, with history as precedent, immediate friction behind closed doors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Works for Navy and the AAC

The military academies and Hawaii are unique. Maybe BYU as well.

BYU deserves better but their situation is 99% their own doing.

The problem with adding to the top is that you'll have six schools at 8-4 by the end of the year. The way the NY6 is set up, that is a nightmare. This isn't basketball where DEPTH helps.

(12-17-2020 11:17 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  The problem with adding to the top is that you'll have six schools at 8-4 by the end of the year. The way the NY6 is set up, that is a nightmare. This isn't basketball where DEPTH helps.

That can happen in any conference---but it typically doesn't. What adding to the top of the conference does is allow you to win more of those key OOC games---giving your conference winner more credibility when it comes time to compare the winner of your conference against the winners of other leagues.

If I recall, Boise State - between its CBS/FS1 TV deal and its payouts from the MWC - should be getting around $7/$8 million annually between the sources of revenue. The present AAC TV deal is backloaded, again if I recall correctly, with AAC members not getting the $8/$9 million annually until the end of the deal. Thus, unless ESPN offered a sweetener, Boise State would have to take a pay cut to go to the AAC. Unlike UConn-Big East move, Boise State has little-to-no associations with the AAC or with any of its members. There is no emotional pull to draw them in, nor does it help with Olympic sports or travel costs. It didn't sound like ESPN was particularly down on losing more Boise State games to FS1 or CBS, even though Boise appeared on ESPN over 100 times since 1999. There is obviously benefit for the AAC to add Boise State; it doesn't make the AAC a P6, but it does widen the gap between the AAC and the rest of the G5. I just continue to not see what is in it for Boise State. Whether they are in the MWC or the AAC, they would have to go undefeated, unless in a unique year, to get access to the NY6 Bowl. It is probably an easier path for them to do that in the MWC.

As noted, Army, BYU or Boise State do not appear likely to be joining the AAC any time soon. If it made sense for any of those schools, they would have done so as soon as UConn left. No other program was going to add value to the AAC TV deal, so it made no sense to rush to expand when there were no clear candidates to add.

For Boise State, I think the best path for them is actually if Texas/Oklahoma depart the Big 12, causing whomever is left behind to back fill with the best of rest. They could be taken, along with BYU, with the top of the AAC. That groups them with associated power programs, while taking the top brands of the G5 to form a slightly elevated version of a best of the rest league.

(12-17-2020 01:18 AM)46566 Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 11:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 11:06 PM)46566 Wrote:  I honestly see all sports to the PAC 12 or football only to the AAC as Boises only options.

I don't think the PAC or even the AAC is a viable option for Boise, which is why I think this coach is just blowing smoke that won't amount to anything.

The only possible realistic option is dumping the Olympic sports in the WAC or WCC (big step down) and going independent in football. But they must see how independence hasn't actually worked out for BYU.

I agree about blowing smoke. Honestly the only team I see having independence working in the MWC is Hawaii because it's olympic sports are already separate from the MWC and week 0 gives schools the option to rearrange late season conference games if they want to play hawaii.
I don't know how Boise State could bring in teams to play in Idaho in November. At least UConn could possibly offer a away basketball game or something as a offering for a neutral or late home game.

I'm actually curious if Boise State is actually overvalued by the tv contract and people because of their past success. I'm wondering if the MWC actually needs Boise State long term. Should Boise State leave a obviously NMSU would most likely be added while a obvious huge step down in football quality it could be a slight uptick in basketball quality. Would UTEP be interested in a MWC invite or want to stay in the C-USA? I'm also wondering if it's worth keeping Wyoming if UTEP says yes. It's just to me trips to Wyoming doesn't make much sense without a Idaho school.

Yes, extremely overvalued.

I could see ESPN being interested in a package of BYU/Boise/SDSU/Hawaii. If those 4 all were independent, they could have November covered and maximize their share of TV money as opposed to being with a full fledged conference

(12-17-2020 11:35 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  If I recall, Boise State - between its CBS/FS1 TV deal and its payouts from the MWC - should be getting around $7/$8 million annually between the sources of revenue. The present AAC TV deal is backloaded, again if I recall correctly, with AAC members not getting the $8/$9 million annually until the end of the deal. Thus, unless ESPN offered a sweetener, Boise State would have to take a pay cut to go to the AAC. Unlike UConn-Big East move, Boise State has little-to-no associations with the AAC or with any of its members. There is no emotional pull to draw them in, nor does it help with Olympic sports or travel costs. It didn't sound like ESPN was particularly down on losing more Boise State games to FS1 or CBS, even though Boise appeared on ESPN over 100 times since 1999. There is obviously benefit for the AAC to add Boise State; it doesn't make the AAC a P6, but it does widen the gap between the AAC and the rest of the G5. I just continue to not see what is in it for Boise State. Whether they are in the MWC or the AAC, they would have to go undefeated, unless in a unique year, to get access to the NY6 Bowl. It is probably an easier path for them to do that in the MWC.

As noted, Army, BYU or Boise State do not appear likely to be joining the AAC any time soon. If it made sense for any of those schools, they would have done so as soon as UConn left. No other program was going to add value to the AAC TV deal, so it made no sense to rush to expand when there were no clear candidates to add.

For Boise State, I think the best path for them is actually if Texas/Oklahoma depart the Big 12, causing whomever is left behind to back fill with the best of rest. They could be taken, along with BYU, with the top of the AAC. That groups them with associated power programs, while taking the top brands of the G5 to form a slightly elevated version of a best of the rest league.

Well, first off---The MW deal is back loaded as well. All these TV deals are back loaded. Secondly, Boise was expecting 5.7 in revenue from the MW in 2020 (not 7 or 8). Third, the MW has made it clear Boise's current "sweetheart deal" with the MW will end after this TV contract (5 football seasons left), so the MW could potentially get a small raise on the next TV deal that actually results in a Boise pay cut. Finally, Boise isnt too happy with its conference mates right now and does not apparently believe they are committed to raising the level of the conference.

In the end---will Boise leave? Who knows? Whats clear is it was Boise who was looking around with the AAC as the only viable landing spot. Right now, the AAC appears to be content to sit at 11 football members until a school that actually substantially adds to the conference value and perception is available. Boise is one of the few teams that probably fits that criteria--so I could see the two getting together. My feeling is that as time clicks off the odometer of the current Mountain West TV deal, the more eager Boise will be to pull the trigger on an AAC union.

...you know, I bet Rice would join under the condition that they spend the coin to get to midtable in the AAC. It's never going to happen due to politics, but it keeps all of the "academic" G5 programs in the AAC which is decent clout when talking to AAU P5 schools...

Boise State is the crown jewel in the MWC. But, what if Boise State helping the WAC out right now? Helping the WAC talking to the Big West.

California Baptist
Seattle U.
Boise State Olympic sports
Azusa Pacific

With Chicago State looking for cost savings? This would make the WAC a lot more attractable.
This article about Boise State came out right after the articles about the WAC and the article from NMSU AD about WAC being FBS in the future.

(12-17-2020 12:10 PM)solohawks Wrote:  I could see ESPN being interested in a package of BYU/Boise/SDSU/Hawaii. If those 4 all were independent, they could have November covered and maximize their share of TV money as opposed to being with a full fledged conference

...or just pull another Mountain West-style coup to trim some fat and secure BYU:

BYU
Boise St.
Wyoming
Colorado St.
Air Force
New Mexico
UNLV
San Diego State
Hawaii

Fresno St., San Jose St., Nevada, and Utah State are then left to rebuild with New Mexico St. and UTEP, and maybe a couple Texas schools.