(12-17-2020 06:44 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 10:23 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  NDSU currently:
-9 to 10 home games every season, all or mostly sellouts. 6-7 regular season home games. Every season at least 6. At least 1 of the 11 game seasons, and a couple of the 12 game seasons had 7. Plus 3 playoff.
-4x on Nat TV (3 playoff and usually 1 other)

5 away games. 3-4 flying with 1-2 bus between SDSU, S Dakota & N Dakota (N Dakota recently rejoined the MVFC).

With a move up:
-6 home games
-6 away. 5 or all 6 flying (longer/more expensive on avg).

How much would a new dome in the 30-40k capacity cost? 100 million? 150 million?

Try $350-400 million

Ok. I was WAGing it.
-Fargodome, about 19k capacity, built 1992 for 49 million, about 91 million in 2020 dollars.
-The Carrier Dome, 49k capacity, was $25.6 million to build in 1980, about $81 million in 2020 dollars.

Below article from last year says replacement (I’m assuming same size) would be 133 million, 144 million with total property.
https://www.grandforksherald.com/busines...-years-ago

Seems given the above, seems a 30k-40k capacity college dome could be built for far less than $350-$400 million

(12-17-2020 11:01 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 06:44 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 10:23 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  NDSU currently:
-9 to 10 home games every season, all or mostly sellouts. 6-7 regular season home games. Every season at least 6. At least 1 of the 11 game seasons, and a couple of the 12 game seasons had 7. Plus 3 playoff.
-4x on Nat TV (3 playoff and usually 1 other)

5 away games. 3-4 flying with 1-2 bus between SDSU, S Dakota & N Dakota (N Dakota recently rejoined the MVFC).

With a move up:
-6 home games
-6 away. 5 or all 6 flying (longer/more expensive on avg).

How much would a new dome in the 30-40k capacity cost? 100 million? 150 million?

Try $350-400 million

Ok. I was WAGing it.
-Fargodome, about 19k capacity, built 1992 for 49 million, about 91 million in 2020 dollars.
-The Carrier Dome, 49k capacity, was $25.6 million to build in 1980, about $81 million in 2020 dollars.

Below article from last year says replacement (I’m assuming same size) would be 133 million, 144 million with total property.
https://www.grandforksherald.com/busines...-years-ago

Seems given the above, seems a 30k-40k capacity college dome could be built for far less than $350-$400 million

Perhaps. My estimate comes from my brother who has spent the last 35 years as a sports architect. He’s been a Senior Project Manager/Principal at HOK and HNCB. Projects he’s been directly involved with include Enron Field (now Minute Maid Park), the Alamo Dome, Coors Field, the new LA stadium, the new U. of Houston FB stadium, and at least 30 other major college and professional venues.

Of course you can always build a pole-barn with a roof, which in essence is what NDSU plays in now.

Carrier Dome rebuilt/renovated this year for $120M

(12-17-2020 04:14 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  Carrier Dome rebuilt/renovated this year for $120M

I may be mistaken but I believe that NDSU doesn’t own the Fargo Dome the city does, which means it like would need to pay for the expansion or convince the city to allow/do it. Likely not a large issue but could end in them needing to build something for themselves from scratch as well.

Honestly, who cares about NDSU football?? Not trying to shout down people for engaging in this clearly labeled thread. Just an honest question. Why do any of us care about their FBS ambitions? There’s no connection to our situations. We’re in a conference with Elon. That tells you how content we are right there. NDSU moving up won’t prod our leaders into moving more quickly or decisively.

(12-17-2020 08:56 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Honestly, who cares about NDSU football?? Not trying to shout down people for engaging in this clearly labeled thread. Just an honest question. Why do any of us care about their FBS ambitions? There’s no connection to our situations. We’re in a conference with Elon. That tells you how content we are right there. NDSU moving up won’t prod our leaders into moving more quickly or decisively.

Yep.

Also, JMU is already heavily invested. JMU is spending, and has spent, to be at the FBS level.

(12-17-2020 08:56 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Honestly, who cares about NDSU football?? Not trying to shout down people for engaging in this clearly labeled thread. Just an honest question. Why do any of us care about their FBS ambitions? There’s no connection to our situations. We’re in a conference with Elon. That tells you how content we are right there. NDSU moving up won’t prod our leaders into moving more quickly or decisively.

Because there is something there- there is a rivalry between schools and fan bases and they are the real deal on the field. Because JMUs admin is on record as saying that they keep a close eye on North Dakota State and view them as a measuring stick for JMU Football.

(12-17-2020 10:27 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 08:56 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Honestly, who cares about NDSU football?? Not trying to shout down people for engaging in this clearly labeled thread. Just an honest question. Why do any of us care about their FBS ambitions? There’s no connection to our situations. We’re in a conference with Elon. That tells you how content we are right there. NDSU moving up won’t prod our leaders into moving more quickly or decisively.

Because there is something there- there is a rivalry between schools and fan bases and they are the real deal on the field. Because JMUs admin is on record as saying that they keep a close eye on North Dakota State and view them as a measuring stick for JMU Football.

Measuring stick for what? Wins? FCS championships? What does that have to do with FBS, respectfully to you Sir?

You have an upper echelon FBS budget and upper middle tier FBS facilities. Why are you following a program with half your budget? I understand that fans have no control, but your leaders seem myopic at best.

Leaders don’t concern themselves with measuring up to anyone... because they lead. Or am I wrong? Hyper, please weigh in.

IMHO, you guys are doing so much less with more than most. That is complacent leadership in my mind. Plow the road Dukes!

(12-17-2020 10:53 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 10:27 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 08:56 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Honestly, who cares about NDSU football?? Not trying to shout down people for engaging in this clearly labeled thread. Just an honest question. Why do any of us care about their FBS ambitions? There’s no connection to our situations. We’re in a conference with Elon. That tells you how content we are right there. NDSU moving up won’t prod our leaders into moving more quickly or decisively.

Because there is something there- there is a rivalry between schools and fan bases and they are the real deal on the field. Because JMUs admin is on record as saying that they keep a close eye on North Dakota State and view them as a measuring stick for JMU Football.

Measuring stick for what? Wins? FCS championships? What does that have to do with FBS, respectfully to you Sir?

You have an upper echelon FBS budget and upper middle tier FBS facilities. Why are you following a program with half your budget? I understand that fans have no control, but your leaders seem myopic at best.

Leaders don’t concern themselves with measuring up to anyone... because they lead. Or am I wrong? Hyper, please weigh in.

IMHO, you guys are doing so much less with more than most. That is complacent leadership in my mind. Plow the road Dukes!

People talk of budget in total/aggregate numbers not Football only yet when folks bring up that JMU would be a great all Sports add to a conference like the American it is discounted and redirected just back to football.

I’d be curious on the comp of JMU football vs others. I don’t doubt that we spend more than most and in line with some FBS programs and we have facilities on par as well but I do believe the budget discussion is a little overstated because JMU spends more on other sports- for example I know are basketball budget is only now increasing to where it should be but I also think we spend more on women’s sports than most Institutions.

(12-17-2020 11:12 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 10:53 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 10:27 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 08:56 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Honestly, who cares about NDSU football?? Not trying to shout down people for engaging in this clearly labeled thread. Just an honest question. Why do any of us care about their FBS ambitions? There’s no connection to our situations. We’re in a conference with Elon. That tells you how content we are right there. NDSU moving up won’t prod our leaders into moving more quickly or decisively.

Because there is something there- there is a rivalry between schools and fan bases and they are the real deal on the field. Because JMUs admin is on record as saying that they keep a close eye on North Dakota State and view them as a measuring stick for JMU Football.

Measuring stick for what? Wins? FCS championships? What does that have to do with FBS, respectfully to you Sir?

You have an upper echelon FBS budget and upper middle tier FBS facilities. Why are you following a program with half your budget? I understand that fans have no control, but your leaders seem myopic at best.

Leaders don’t concern themselves with measuring up to anyone... because they lead. Or am I wrong? Hyper, please weigh in.

IMHO, you guys are doing so much less with more than most. That is complacent leadership in my mind. Plow the road Dukes!

People talk of budget in total/aggregate numbers not Football only yet when folks bring up that JMU would be a great all Sports add to a conference like the American it is discounted and redirected just back to football.

I’d be curious on the comp of JMU football vs others. I don’t doubt that we spend more than most and in line with some FBS programs and we have facilities on par as well but I do believe the budget discussion is a little overstated because JMU spends more on other sports- for example I know are basketball budget is only now increasing to where it should be but I also think we spend more on women’s sports than most Institutions.

Okay, fair argument, but would you agree that fb/mbb are the bread winners outside of UCONNs wbb team? If so, would you say that at least 2/3 of the budget is afforded to said sports? Perhaps even 3/4? Title 9 is title 9 and women deserve equal opportunities for sure... but financially, football and basketball is where all of the money is. So the numbers can be extrapolated.

No university that I know of is fantastic in all sports. They have so many eggs and they have to go into baskets of the governing body’s choosing. Where those eggs go is a big g decision. That’s all.

You all could make so much more money on the back and f FBs and investing in mbb to mitigate the costs in f the non revenue sports. That’s my angle. You have the budget and you have a rabid fan base. Very similar to us.

Sorry about the spelling. Fat thumbs and too lazy to edit.

Bottom line, you should be FBS and I don’t care one bit what NDSU does.

(12-17-2020 11:34 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  Bottom line, you should be FBS and I don’t care one bit what NDSU does.

I don’t disagree and we spend relatively high but I suspect that looking at football only would disrupt the narrative of some of the angry And frustrated JMU fans on this board. After all we are FCS today and have a lower number of full scholarships, spend less on travel etc so how could our football budget be head and shoulders above most G5 schools? It doesn’t really make sense. I don’t doubt that we could increase our budget and compete right away or that we don’t allocate a lot to athletics in general with pretty good return by the way in most other sports but I’m just saying that JMUs budget is a good indicator that we could fit in the AAC for all sports not necessarily a 100% blinking red light indicator that we are vastly outspending other schools in football.

(12-17-2020 11:12 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 10:53 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 10:27 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 08:56 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Honestly, who cares about NDSU football?? Not trying to shout down people for engaging in this clearly labeled thread. Just an honest question. Why do any of us care about their FBS ambitions? There’s no connection to our situations. We’re in a conference with Elon. That tells you how content we are right there. NDSU moving up won’t prod our leaders into moving more quickly or decisively.

Because there is something there- there is a rivalry between schools and fan bases and they are the real deal on the field. Because JMUs admin is on record as saying that they keep a close eye on North Dakota State and view them as a measuring stick for JMU Football.

Measuring stick for what? Wins? FCS championships? What does that have to do with FBS, respectfully to you Sir?

You have an upper echelon FBS budget and upper middle tier FBS facilities. Why are you following a program with half your budget? I understand that fans have no control, but your leaders seem myopic at best.

Leaders don’t concern themselves with measuring up to anyone... because they lead. Or am I wrong? Hyper, please weigh in.

IMHO, you guys are doing so much less with more than most. That is complacent leadership in my mind. Plow the road Dukes!

People talk of budget in total/aggregate numbers not Football only yet when folks bring up that JMU would be a great all Sports add to a conference like the American it is discounted and redirected just back to football.

I’d be curious on the comp of JMU football vs others. I don’t doubt that we spend more than most and in line with some FBS programs and we have facilities on par as well but I do believe the budget discussion is a little overstated because JMU spends more on other sports- for example I know are basketball budget is only now increasing to where it should be but I also think we spend more on women’s sports than most Institutions.

You might be surprised how out of whack JMU is vs FCS in Football Only spending. They are more than 300% of the median FCS football budget. They are also more than the median of 4 FBS conferences Mountain West, Sun Belt, C-USA, and the MAC with 22 less scholarships to fund.
Check out the Knight Commission website Link and see for yourself. All the data supports what the outside poster is suggesting and the budget discussion is not overstated.

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org...s/982a2025

(12-17-2020 11:56 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 11:12 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 10:53 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 10:27 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 08:56 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Honestly, who cares about NDSU football?? Not trying to shout down people for engaging in this clearly labeled thread. Just an honest question. Why do any of us care about their FBS ambitions? There’s no connection to our situations. We’re in a conference with Elon. That tells you how content we are right there. NDSU moving up won’t prod our leaders into moving more quickly or decisively.

Because there is something there- there is a rivalry between schools and fan bases and they are the real deal on the field. Because JMUs admin is on record as saying that they keep a close eye on North Dakota State and view them as a measuring stick for JMU Football.

Measuring stick for what? Wins? FCS championships? What does that have to do with FBS, respectfully to you Sir?

You have an upper echelon FBS budget and upper middle tier FBS facilities. Why are you following a program with half your budget? I understand that fans have no control, but your leaders seem myopic at best.

Leaders don’t concern themselves with measuring up to anyone... because they lead. Or am I wrong? Hyper, please weigh in.

IMHO, you guys are doing so much less with more than most. That is complacent leadership in my mind. Plow the road Dukes!

People talk of budget in total/aggregate numbers not Football only yet when folks bring up that JMU would be a great all Sports add to a conference like the American it is discounted and redirected just back to football.

I’d be curious on the comp of JMU football vs others. I don’t doubt that we spend more than most and in line with some FBS programs and we have facilities on par as well but I do believe the budget discussion is a little overstated because JMU spends more on other sports- for example I know are basketball budget is only now increasing to where it should be but I also think we spend more on women’s sports than most Institutions.

You might be surprised how out of whack JMU is vs FCS in Football Only spending. They are more than 300% of the median FCS football budget. They are also more than the median of 4 FBS conferences Mountain West, Sun Belt, C-USA, and the MAC with 22 less scholarships to fund.
Check out the Knight Commission website Link and see for yourself. All the data supports what the outside poster is suggesting and the budget discussion is not overstated.

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org...s/982a2025

JMU spends $1m -$3m more doesn’t sound as damning as citing the $50m + budget number though. I get it I’m in sales and work with numbers and percentages. The bigger numbers and percentages help drive the point home.

Yep, it is pretty staggering and very hard for JMU to explain. FBS budget, FCS product. Please donate more sports fans.

Here is another nugget from the Knight Commission website...
JMU spends 49% more on football than the 2nd highest FCS team (tie between Delaware and Montana State). There is a $4.4 million gap between #1 JMU at $11.8 million and #2 at $7.4 million. Nobody is even in JMU’s stratosphere and the bulk of FCS is laughably lower at a median of $3.4 million. We are beating up on the poor and the weak.

If we aren’t questioning what the heck is going on, then we are complicit.

All the spending and just the tiny FCS revenue.

(12-18-2020 12:18 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Yep, it is pretty staggering and very hard for JMU to explain. FBS budget, FCS product. Please donate more sports fans.

Here is another nugget from the Knight Commission website...
JMU spends 49% more on football than the 2nd highest FCS team (tie between Delaware and Montana State). There is a $4.4 million gap between #1 JMU at $11.8 million and #2 at $7.4 million. Nobody is even in JMU’s stratosphere and the bulk of FCS is laughably lower at a median of $3.4 million. We are beating up on the poor and the weak.

If we aren’t questioning what the heck is going on, then we are complicit.

It may be hard to explain well but it's not hard to not explain at all with a zombiefied fan base eating up the propaganda known as the "JMU Way" which is just don't communicate at all.

Que: "Bourne said 'JMU may be FBS in 18-to-24 months' 16 years ago and got his head ripped off"

I have come up with something new to say over and over, it's not on Bourne to communicate that his team plans (I believe his team has planned, probably well). We have reached a point where the person paid to lead the whole university to come out from behind the purple curtain and that is not going to happen unless there is an acapella sing along with the group Exit 45 at Forbes Center.

It actually gets worse post Bourne/King, either a new AD hired by Alger reporting to Alger or a Bourne zombie reporting to Alger.

How can either be better?

I spoke directly with Alger about the merits of an AD reporting directly to the President.

His response was abysmal.

(12-18-2020 12:18 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Yep, it is pretty staggering and very hard for JMU to explain. FBS budget, FCS product. Please donate more sports fans.

Here is another nugget from the Knight Commission website...
JMU spends 49% more on football than the 2nd highest FCS team (tie between Delaware and Montana State). There is a $4.4 million gap between #1 JMU at $11.8 million and #2 at $7.4 million. Nobody is even in JMU’s stratosphere and the bulk of FCS is laughably lower at a median of $3.4 million. We are beating up on the poor and the weak.

If we aren’t questioning what the heck is going on, then we are complicit.

a $4.4m gap you say?

did you look at this chart? sort from 2007 to now and make it a table if it doesn't come through on the link
http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org...ion_data-3

what happened in 2010 to make our debt service go from barely above the FCS median to about $4-6m higher than the median.

hmmm......