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Lester’s obvious problem is his failure to deliver in a clutch game.

But we can’t lose sight of the fact that he came within a FG of sending us to the MACC in back-to-back years. Not even Chris Creighton, who is praised a lot, has gotten EMU even close to that once.

That’s not excusing Lester’s teams seemingly folding under the pressure of achieving that goal. And I fear it’s getting into our heads like when the Tigers play the Indians. Not to mention a full original slate that included Buffalo and Kent State might’ve zapped us earlier anyhow.

But we don’t have Akron or BG level issues. Or NIU, who was very used to winning a lot, going winless.

Lester needs to fix these late season swoons when that next step is within reach. And finally shore up a defense. But he is by no means a dumpster fire.

Sure can’t disagree with any of those observations. Pretty much sums things up.

(12-13-2020 09:20 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Lester’s obvious problem is his failure to deliver in a clutch game.

But we can’t lose sight of the fact that he came within a FG of sending us to the MACC in back-to-back years. Not even Chris Creighton, who is praised a lot, has gotten EMU even close to that once.

That’s not excusing Lester’s teams seemingly folding under the pressure of achieving that goal. And I fear it’s getting into our heads like when the Tigers play the Indians. Not to mention a full original slate that included Buffalo and Kent State might’ve zapped us earlier anyhow.

But we don’t have Akron or BG level issues. Or NIU, who was very used to winning a lot, going winless.

Lester needs to fix these late season swoons when that next step is within reach. And finally shore up a defense. But he is by no means a dumpster fire.

Totally agree. It's almost like we are a boxer up in the late rounds afraid to throw a punch in fear we might get knocked out. I've been trying to wrap my head around the decision making of the coaching staff for the past 24 hours. The only logical answer is this: Lester does not trust his redshirt sophomore quarterback to not turn the ball over by throwing it downfield. IMO, he should have just opened up the play book and let him go -- I would have rather lost the game on another turn over versus the way it ended.

(12-13-2020 09:20 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Lester’s obvious problem is his failure to deliver in a clutch game.

But we can’t lose sight of the fact that he came within a FG of sending us to the MACC in back-to-back years. Not even Chris Creighton, who is praised a lot, has gotten EMU even close to that once.

That’s not excusing Lester’s teams seemingly folding under the pressure of achieving that goal. And I fear it’s getting into our heads like when the Tigers play the Indians. Not to mention a full original slate that included Buffalo and Kent State might’ve zapped us earlier anyhow.

But we don’t have Akron or BG level issues. Or NIU, who was very used to winning a lot, going winless.

Lester needs to fix these late season swoons when that next step is within reach. And finally shore up a defense. But he is by no means a dumpster fire.

While frustrating we can’t win the big one he does have us competing or playing for the Mac west title each year and that’s what I want. We should have the most important position covered in Eleby for a few more years (assuming he stays) and he should be the best in the Mac . I’ll take that going fwd

I just don't want to hear any more 'I'd be happy w/ a Frank Solich type coach.'

We should be cognizant of the difference between "competing" for the MACC appearances and squandering them two years in a row (2019, 2020) with a third plausible appearance (2018) being quizzically coached away.

The criticisms of Tim Lester are well-earned. He's recruited extremely well, if you ask me. But he has not coached that talent to its full potential and he always seems to flinch or cower at the wrong time (don't forget he threw two picks against Marshall in the '99 MACC).

If being unable to rise to the occasion hasn't changed in 20 years, what should make us think it will change anytime soon?

I certainly get that this wasn't a season we thought we would have, but he had ample time to do what Buffalo has done, and he just hasn't. This was his 'put up or shut up' year and I've seen enough.

I'm as disappointed as anybody how the last two seasons have ended.

However not completely ready to get off Lester yet.

PJ Fleck was one of a kind for WMU and maybe the MAC.

There is no guarantee that if we had hired one of his assistants - Ciarrocca, Simon, Pinkham, whomever - that they would have done better than we have with Lester.

Because they aren't Fleck either. And I don't see anyone else out there we could've hired who would've been.

Now if Lester has a losing season next year or doesn't get us to MACC game by end of his original contract, then it may be time for a change.

(12-14-2020 01:34 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  I'm as disappointed as anybody how the last two seasons have ended.

However not completely ready to get off Lester yet.

PJ Fleck was one of a kind for WMU and maybe the MAC.

There is no guarantee that if we had hired one of his assistants - Ciarrocca, Simon, Pinkham, whomever - that they would have done better than we have with Lester.

Because they aren't Fleck either. And I don't see anyone else out there we could've hired who would've been.

Now if Lester has a losing season next year or doesn't get us to MACC game by end of his original contract, then it may be time for a change.

That's how I feel.

Yeah, the thing with pining for PJ's system by hiring an assistant is that PJ's system is 100% PJ's personality that can't be duplicated. No offense to coach Pinkham, who did a good job here, but him trying to get players to run out of the tunnel holding a styrofoam steak ain't going to play the same...

I do agree that the coaches deserve blame for not getting us over the hump. Playing afraid of yourself is a philosophical and emotional thing, which the coaches are responsible for creating. They do however deserve credit for getting us to the hump, which very few people in here thought was even remotely possible back in 2017. They routinely beat the incredibly low stated expectations established in here, but have not lived up to our real expectations of being the power to beat in the West—not a perennial mere contender, which we've been for far too long outside of one golden season.

And if you don't believe people connected to the university don't read this forum (and that your words have impact beyond the few of us who regularly post), then I've got a this joke about a car dealership owner, a WMU employee, and a lawyer walking into a bar...

(12-14-2020 02:14 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  They routinely beat the incredibly low stated expectations established in here, but have not lived up to our real expectations of being the power to beat in the West—not a perennial mere contender, which we've been for far too long outside of one golden season.

I am pretty sure a large majority of fans (or at least posters here) have been expecting roughly 6-6 or 7-5 seasons all along (with the caveat that the talent is there to go further). RG seems to be cherrypicking a couple of posters each year that for whatever reason pick 3-9 type seasons.

Expectations & predictions aren't the same thing IMO.

No one's 'expecting' 6-6 other then they're hoping they get to say 'I told you so.'

(12-14-2020 03:59 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  I am pretty sure a large majority of fans (or at least posters here) have been expecting roughly 6-6 or 7-5 seasons all along (with the caveat that the talent is there to go further). RG seems to be cherrypicking a couple of posters each year that for whatever reason pick 3-9 type seasons.

I don't think I'm cherry picking. Maybe "3-9 at best" and similar predictions is how some posters express their overall dissatisfaction and I should be taking them seriously but not literally. But I would say a majority of posters thought the wheels would fall off the entire program back in 2017.

I think now most people expect that, but we still see those odd predictions, and every year is heralded as a recruiting disaster or an imminent disaster at some point.

Really it was this general pessimism that made me join this board and speak up after reading through it enough. I was going to swear off online commenting after MDead decided for me, but it shouldn't be hard to find at least a few people happy to root for a program, and except for one year that's been the case for us. Mlive was just as insufferable through most of the Fleck years and how I feel right now was how I felt before kickoff of our 2015 Toledo game.

The same can be said for the Red Wings, though, so maybe there's just never pleasing sports fans.

I've been optimistic, but the 2021 OOC schedule has me nervous. Gonna have to do well in MAC play, not blow the gimmes & get a win over a MAC top team or 2, to get up to my expectation of 8-5. I am fearing 6-6

(12-14-2020 04:43 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I've been optimistic, but the 2021 OOC schedule has me nervous. Gonna have to do well in MAC play, not blow the gimmes & get a win over a MAC top team or 2, to get up to my expectation of 8-5. I am fearing 6-6

When San Jose State was first scheduled, they were a bottom feeder.

They are 6-0 this season in the Mountain West.

Also I believe we were picked 3rd and/or 4th in the division by the media & coaches pre-season polls. Team consistently exceeds pre-season predictions by fans & media. As RunningGame said, we're at the hump, just need to get over it.

(12-14-2020 05:09 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  

(12-14-2020 04:43 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I've been optimistic, but the 2021 OOC schedule has me nervous. Gonna have to do well in MAC play, not blow the gimmes & get a win over a MAC top team or 2, to get up to my expectation of 8-5. I am fearing 6-6

When San Jose State was first scheduled, they were a bottom feeder.

They are 6-0 this season in the Mountain West.

Pitt also was a bottom-feeder when scheduled. Now they're middle-of-the-pack to good.

Also SJSU's 6-0 kind of came out of nowhere. I'm wondering if this year's a senior-heavy team w/ a senior QB.

(12-14-2020 08:31 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Also I believe we were picked 3rd and/or 4th in the division by the media & coaches pre-season polls. Team consistently exceeds pre-season predictions by fans & media. As RunningGame said, we're at the hump, just need to get over it.

I was hoping the Toledo game was that moment, but alas.

Another thing: going into the season didn't we know we were lacking in regards to talent on the defensive end? So going into the season I'm bombarded by 'we're lacking at X position', we know we don't have a complete team, whether it be depth, experience, or raw talent, something recognized pre-season by the media & fans who follow the team a bit closer then the media usually does, & suddenly at the end of the season it's 'we have too much talent to not be winning the division?'

I get it, we could've beat EMU and/or BSU, but if we have a hole at a position, the other team's going to exploit it or that could be the difference in a close game.

Let me know when we have a complete roster. Understandably, TL just wrapped up Year 4, but the roster changes each year.

(12-14-2020 11:17 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(12-14-2020 08:31 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Also I believe we were picked 3rd and/or 4th in the division by the media & coaches pre-season polls. Team consistently exceeds pre-season predictions by fans & media. As RunningGame said, we're at the hump, just need to get over it.

I was hoping the Toledo game was that moment, but alas.

Toledo possibly on the decline. Fans pissed at their coach. Next year I want to see us go into the Glass Bowl expecting to beat down a team fighting for .500. The big teams in the division aren't UT or NIU anymore, so we need to go to DeKalb expecting to beat them down too.