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Academic cuts begin elsewhere
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nj alum Offline
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Academic cuts begin elsewhere
12-11-2020 01:57 PM
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wanm65 Online
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
(12-11-2020 01:57 PM)nj alum Wrote:  https://www.evansville.edu/realignment/

W&M needs to perform a similar review.
12-11-2020 02:45 PM
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TribeFan1983 Offline
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
(12-11-2020 02:45 PM)wanm65 Wrote:  
(12-11-2020 01:57 PM)nj alum Wrote:  https://www.evansville.edu/realignment/

W&M needs to perform a similar review.
12-11-2020 06:42 PM
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TribeFan1983 Offline
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
Evansville axed its history department but kept its minor program in "truth, meaning and value." What nonsense!
12-11-2020 06:46 PM
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TDenverFan Offline
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
I'm shocked computer science got the axe
12-11-2020 08:30 PM
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NC Tribe Offline
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
(12-11-2020 08:30 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  I'm shocked computer science got the axe

I guess as a private liberal arts college, they don't have a lot of electrical engineering, computer science and physics majors

Hard to believe you can be "liberal arts" without philosophy
12-11-2020 08:37 PM
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soccerguy315 Offline
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
a private university that costs $55k/year and graduates 70% of its students... nice

they have been enjoying the unlimited amounts of student loan money for sure
12-11-2020 10:45 PM
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Sitting bull Offline
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
(12-11-2020 06:46 PM)TribeFan1983 Wrote:  Evansville axed its history department but kept its minor program in "truth, meaning and value." What nonsense!

“History, by apprising them of the past, will enable them to judge of the future; it will avail them of the experience of other times and other nations; it will qualify them as judges of the actions and designs of people; it will enable them to know the ambition under every disguise it may assume; and knowing it to defeat its views”.

T. Jefferson
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12-12-2020 12:32 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Academic cuts begin elsewhere
Interesting twitter feed...

https://twitter.com/wmworkersunion/statu...37537?s=19

We learned this week of the administration’s finalized plan to layoff non-tenure-eligible faculty (NTEs).

Please take a moment to read Dr. Scott Challener’s “A Note to My Students on My Future with William & Mary” (https://t.co/MtfNK2tlTf)

Read it. Share it. Speak up.

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12-18-2020 09:44 PM
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soccerguy315 Offline
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
W&M is growing the administration by leaps and bounds. That is very clear. Faculty doesn't care when things are rosy. Now they care. I, personally, think W&M is somewhat endanger of losing who it is, because it doesn't really know what it is trying to be. This is true for athletics, but also I think the entire school. You can see the results in our falling US News rankings. (not that those rankings define a school, but they are an indicator)

There are a million other PhDs that will jump at the chance to teach at a school like W&M, since the market is completely flooded... we can cut now and re-hire when things are better, if that is something the leadership desires to do. I wonder what increased demands these decisions will place on the tenured faculty, in terms of course load and class size?

As a humanities graduate, the "future of the humanities" do not depend on the subjects highlighted in the letter, IMO. In fact, I would argue there are quite limited jobs for some of those degrees and there is likely an argument to be made that it is not worth $100k+ to study them deeply.

edit: CU Boulder is trying to work a plan to reduce tenured faculty. Would guess the same is happening in some other places.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2020 11:10 PM by soccerguy315.)
12-18-2020 11:06 PM
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Swemster Offline
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
This smells like future exploitation of grad student labor. Fewer non-tenured faculty=more classes need to be taught=grad students will play a larger role as lead instructors. This is a practice that is commonplace at bigger schools but to this point has been a strength for William and Mary (strength being PhD-level faculty/lecturers teaching almost all classes). Adjunct faculty who teach when they're needed will love this.
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2020 12:15 AM by Swemster.)
12-19-2020 12:15 AM
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Tribal Offline
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Academic cuts begin elsewhere
I get your point on TA instruction, but TA's provided some of the best teaching I received at the 200 level. They were, generally speaking, eager, on top of latest (ie research programs), approachable, and open to working with students after class.



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12-19-2020 07:14 AM
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LeadBolt Offline
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
While far from ideal, I'm not particularly upset at selective cuts in non tenured faculty. Given the economic reality of the times, they should probably be the second group cut. No doubt administration should be cut with a meat axe first. That is where the greatest savings could be achieved, imho. Physical plant folks and service personnel should be third, due to their lower costs and the need for physical plant maintenance when the light turns green again, so that we don't lose years to shoddily maintained facilities.

Now is a perfect time to restructure. I'm a big fan of the change that Mitch Daniels has brought to Perdue. Falling (inflation adjusted) costs and increased academic rankings. More students clamoring to get admitted and not out of reach economically for the middle class, sans huge loans.

We have built up the endowment, let's hope that leadership uses this to make W&M the most desired collegiate destination in the Commonwealth, not an ivy league want to be with high costs and snob appeal and a point of wokeness and politically correct indoctrination where networking skills are polished rather than the being the cutting edge liberal academic institutions that they once were.
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2020 08:14 AM by LeadBolt.)
12-19-2020 08:09 AM
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wanm65 Online
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
This is just a start. Several degree programs should be cut (including tenured faculty in those programs).

Administration needs the biggest cuts !!!

Do not mess with the service & maintenance workers. We need them & the cost benefit of the above two are much greater.
12-19-2020 08:45 AM
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Tribe32 Offline
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
How about a three pronged approach. Cut costs in the short run, admit more on line students to increase revenue in the mid term, and then add another three thousand students on campus. Housing will take care of itself for upper classmen, so we can use existing dorms for the extra 750 freshmen each year. Liberal Arts colleges are going to be less and less desirable for students over time given the need for technology in almost every job going forward. Let's keep the intellectual nature of the college, but shift more attention to technology oriented teaching/learning.
12-19-2020 08:51 AM
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LeadBolt Offline
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
(12-19-2020 08:51 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  How about a three pronged approach. Cut costs in the short run, admit more on line students to increase revenue in the mid term, and then add another three thousand students on campus. Housing will take care of itself for upper classmen, so we can use existing dorms for the extra 750 freshmen each year. Liberal Arts colleges are going to be less and less desirable for students over time given the need for technology in almost every job going forward. Let's keep the intellectual nature of the college, but shift more attention to technology oriented teaching/learning.

Agreed.

Great time for an evaluation and changing the mix of major programs offered to be more relevant to an evolving future landscape.
12-19-2020 09:20 AM
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Swemster Offline
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
(12-19-2020 07:14 AM)Tribal Wrote:  I get your point on TA instruction, but TA's provided some of the best teaching I received at the 200 level. They were, generally speaking, eager, on top of latest (ie research programs), approachable, and open to working with students after class.



Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Oh no, I wasn't implying that their instruction is any less-than. My point is that their talent and time are exploited for low-cost stipends that are well below market value for that level of instruction.

I will say though that while I was at W&M, the school marketed itself as having almost all classes taught by faculty (where the more common practice is to dump teaching loads on doc students).
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2020 09:45 AM by Swemster.)
12-19-2020 09:43 AM
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billymac Offline
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
(12-19-2020 09:20 AM)LeadBolt Wrote:  
(12-19-2020 08:51 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  How about a three pronged approach. Cut costs in the short run, admit more on line students to increase revenue in the mid term, and then add another three thousand students on campus. Housing will take care of itself for upper classmen, so we can use existing dorms for the extra 750 freshmen each year. Liberal Arts colleges are going to be less and less desirable for students over time given the need for technology in almost every job going forward. Let's keep the intellectual nature of the college, but shift more attention to technology oriented teaching/learning.

Agreed.

Great time for an evaluation and changing the mix of major programs offered to be more relevant to an evolving future landscape.


From the latest scuttlebutt, this is, in fact, the direction the current leadership of the College is looking to achieve. The inclination is, from recent sources on campus, to work to give out more degrees from W&M "that you can actually then use to get a good job". That would involve replacing the more esoteric majors (say, Art History) with more logical, forward looking majors, in the computer sciences/technology arena. This is not to say that they want to completely change the face of W&M, but to add much needed breadth to the curriculum.

If we want to keep our lofty US News ratings, we will definitely have to keep the value of a William & Mary degree at the highest levels.
12-19-2020 10:26 AM
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DSL Offline
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
I do agree with adding degrees in tech and engineering.
We might attract more male applicants as a side benefit.

But an Art History major is a very successful reporter/host on Fox News.
My son's friend studied history and eventually earned his MBA and is successful in finance.

I worked with a lawyer who majored in theatre and one who majored in music!!!

It's more about the process of learning than it is about the subject matter.
Unfortunately, employers are increasingly narrow minded about your major and
W&M will have to adapt to the changing environment.
12-19-2020 11:58 AM
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soccerguy315 Offline
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RE: Academic cuts begin elsewhere
(12-19-2020 09:43 AM)Swemster Wrote:  
(12-19-2020 07:14 AM)Tribal Wrote:  I get your point on TA instruction, but TA's provided some of the best teaching I received at the 200 level. They were, generally speaking, eager, on top of latest (ie research programs), approachable, and open to working with students after class.



Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Oh no, I wasn't implying that their instruction is any less-than. My point is that their talent and time are exploited for low-cost stipends that are well below market value for that level of instruction.

I will say though that while I was at W&M, the school marketed itself as having almost all classes taught by faculty (where the more common practice is to dump teaching loads on doc students).

This is also how I remember W&M being marketed to me... but I wonder, does it matter?

If W&M can get below market good quality instruction, I think it is hard to argue the school should not do that.
12-19-2020 05:32 PM
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