(12-11-2020 08:10 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  Gabbard is pro choice and supports Medicare for All and more or less the GND. Hardly would say she's "more of a Republican".

She’s just her own person in a way. Doesn’t really fit any party line. Definitely don’t agree with her on everything but do respect her for that in a way.

So what about girls in "mens" sports? I mean...

(12-11-2020 08:23 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  So what about girls in "mens" sports? I mean...

Who cares?

The issue with biological males identifying as females in sports such as wrestling, boxing, martial arts, hockey, etc. (any physical sport) is it can put born biological females at serious risk of injury. Even basketball, volleyball, or soccer it can increase the risk of injury.

You can also get into money if it’s professional and say the biological male is taking the spot of a female that rightfully deserves to be in that position.

I believe there was an MMA fight were a biological male absolutely destroyed a female that was a real eye opener to many on this issue. Fallon Fox looks to be the name after quick search. There are other examples.

I agree with what is linked in the op

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(12-11-2020 08:38 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  

(12-11-2020 08:23 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  So what about girls in "mens" sports? I mean...

Who cares?

The issue with biological males identifying as females in sports such as wrestling, boxing, martial arts, hockey, etc. (any physical sport) is it can put born biological females at serious risk of injury. Even basketball, volleyball, or soccer it can increase the risk of injury.

You can also get into money if it’s professional and say the biological male is taking the spot of a female that rightfully deserves to be in that position.

I believe there was an MMA fight were a biological male absolutely destroyed a female that was a real eye opener to many on this issue. Fallon Fox looks to be the name after quick search. There are other examples.

I have no problem with women competing against men in ANY individual non contact sport like Golf...bowling...Darts..shooting sports..ect..ect. Any sport that men and women must engage each other physically "one on one" puts the "real" female in a distinct competitive disadvantage. It pure BS to allow it. Not even female super athletes like Tia Clair Toomey (female crossfit champion) can compete in "one on one" type sports against high level male athletes. Its just absurd simply because of bone structure alone.

It’s a stupid bill that the Supreme Court would overturn as soon as somebody brings it to their steps. I would neither be for this bill or a bill that attempts to MAKE women’s sports associations allow trans athletes in women’s sports.

Sports associations decide their own rules for competitiveness. This is an issue between them and the courts.

(12-11-2020 09:46 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(12-11-2020 08:38 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  

(12-11-2020 08:23 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  So what about girls in "mens" sports? I mean...

Who cares?

The issue with biological males identifying as females in sports such as wrestling, boxing, martial arts, hockey, etc. (any physical sport) is it can put born biological females at serious risk of injury. Even basketball, volleyball, or soccer it can increase the risk of injury.

You can also get into money if it’s professional and say the biological male is taking the spot of a female that rightfully deserves to be in that position.

I believe there was an MMA fight were a biological male absolutely destroyed a female that was a real eye opener to many on this issue. Fallon Fox looks to be the name after quick search. There are other examples.

I have no problem with women competing against men in ANY individual non contact sport like Golf...bowling...Darts..shooting sports..ect..ect. Any sport that men and women must engage each other physically "one on one" puts the "real" female in a distinct competitive disadvantage. It pure BS to allow it. Not even female super athletes like Tia Clair Toomey (female crossfit champion) can compete in "one on one" type sports against high level male athletes. Its just absurd simply because of bone structure alone.

Our very own state had a girl win states in wrestling at 106 last year. 54-4 in her career with a year left.

(12-11-2020 02:36 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(12-11-2020 02:21 PM)Halfcourt Wrote:  Why is this even necessary?

Are you serious? It is necessary because the left is batshit crazy and have no problem with biological males that transition to 'female' competing with biological females.

I think both sides have no idea how to handle the situation. I’ve seen many people on the left (considering what makes a person “left” on this board) either be against trans people in women’s sports or at least conflicted. There’s a spectrum between “they shouldn’t compete” and “let them complete” and the entire thing is occupied by both sides.

I'm just saying there is coed sports but...

Lets take football as an example...technically its not a man's sport but its pretty much all men playing it. What if a woman wants to play on any kind of competitive level? High school, college, pro....

But back to coed vs separate womens and mens competitive sports ... and what point do you/would you draw the line at discrimination....and you would have to play both sides of the argument because it would be a fallacy to argue its ok one way and not the other way. And as an aside, do you get into height, weight, and strength of the persons....

And to that end, what would be the situation in regards to people that have "both", the people going through the actual process of changing, the people who are changed, ect....

What I am getting at is that if you have a law come into being about this it is not as easy to reason out the metrics on how you do it as it seems.

As far as team sports go, basketball and soccer are probably the real gray areas. Now baseball and softball could get interesting. Technically I have never seen any reason women would have to play softball versus playing actual baseball... And very rarely is their "mens softball" as a sponsored competitive team--its usually a rec league kind of thing... and in that arena there is mens, womens, and coed.

And it could be argued that a slippery slope exists when you go down this kind of avenue with standards for men and women in certain professions where physical demands are present.

If you are a girl and can compete with the boys, you go girl.
If you are a boy and can't compete with the boys, sucks to be you.

(12-11-2020 10:06 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-11-2020 09:46 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(12-11-2020 08:38 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  

(12-11-2020 08:23 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  So what about girls in "mens" sports? I mean...

Who cares?

The issue with biological males identifying as females in sports such as wrestling, boxing, martial arts, hockey, etc. (any physical sport) is it can put born biological females at serious risk of injury. Even basketball, volleyball, or soccer it can increase the risk of injury.

You can also get into money if it’s professional and say the biological male is taking the spot of a female that rightfully deserves to be in that position.

I believe there was an MMA fight were a biological male absolutely destroyed a female that was a real eye opener to many on this issue. Fallon Fox looks to be the name after quick search. There are other examples.

I have no problem with women competing against men in ANY individual non contact sport like Golf...bowling...Darts..shooting sports..ect..ect. Any sport that men and women must engage each other physically "one on one" puts the "real" female in a distinct competitive disadvantage. It pure BS to allow it. Not even female super athletes like Tia Clair Toomey (female crossfit champion) can compete in "one on one" type sports against high level male athletes. Its just absurd simply because of bone structure alone.

Our very own state had a girl win states in wrestling at 106 last year. 54-4 in her career with a year left.

Ok....you got me...There will always be a "one off". I can see a girl at 108 lbs being as strong as boy at 108 lbs and having the skills in wrestling to prevail. We are not talking here about elite athletes in this situation. I suppose she is allowed to wrestle due to the lack of females wanting to engage in this activity. Ill leave this for the HS athletic associations to regulate prudently. I hate it for the guys she beat however....LOL

Amanda Nunes however.. cant compete with the MMA male champion of the equivalent division and would look at us as if we were crazy thinking so. Lets keep this discussion on track. We are talking about a man that decides they want to be a woman and then wants to compete in "one on one" strength, contact or endurance sports with them. Thats just silly. The overwhelming physical and frame advantages make this unfair to the biological females. Its a shame it needs to be legislated frankly. The problem is the uber Left has pushed this so far that something must be done now. Cue Tulsi.

(12-11-2020 10:33 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  I'm just saying there is coed sports but...

Lets take football as an example...technically its not a man's sport but its pretty much all men playing it. What if a woman wants to play on any kind of competitive level? High school, college, pro....

But back to coed vs separate womens and mens competitive sports ... and what point do you/would you draw the line at discrimination....and you would have to play both sides of the argument because it would be a fallacy to argue its ok one way and not the other way. And as an aside, do you get into height, weight, and strength of the persons....

And to that end, what would be the situation in regards to people that have "both", the people going through the actual process of changing, the people who are changed, ect....

What I am getting at is that if you have a law come into being about this it is not as easy to reason out the metrics on how you do it as it seems.

As far as team sports go, basketball and soccer are probably the real gray areas. Now baseball and softball could get interesting. Technically I have never seen any reason women would have to play softball versus playing actual baseball... And very rarely is their "mens softball" as a sponsored competitive team--its usually a rec league kind of thing... and in that arena there is mens, womens, and coed.

And it could be argued that a slippery slope exists when you go down this kind of avenue with standards for men and women in certain professions where physical demands are present.

Under no exceptions should Men(transitioned or not) be competing with women in "one on one" sports in which strength, contact, foot speed and endurance are the predominate factors. As Nomad pointed out there could be some cases in which "girls and boys" could be on level playing field in their youths..but...that is outside of this discussion.

(12-11-2020 11:19 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(12-11-2020 10:06 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-11-2020 09:46 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(12-11-2020 08:38 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  

(12-11-2020 08:23 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  So what about girls in "mens" sports? I mean...

Who cares?

The issue with biological males identifying as females in sports such as wrestling, boxing, martial arts, hockey, etc. (any physical sport) is it can put born biological females at serious risk of injury. Even basketball, volleyball, or soccer it can increase the risk of injury.

You can also get into money if it’s professional and say the biological male is taking the spot of a female that rightfully deserves to be in that position.

I believe there was an MMA fight were a biological male absolutely destroyed a female that was a real eye opener to many on this issue. Fallon Fox looks to be the name after quick search. There are other examples.

I have no problem with women competing against men in ANY individual non contact sport like Golf...bowling...Darts..shooting sports..ect..ect. Any sport that men and women must engage each other physically "one on one" puts the "real" female in a distinct competitive disadvantage. It pure BS to allow it. Not even female super athletes like Tia Clair Toomey (female crossfit champion) can compete in "one on one" type sports against high level male athletes. Its just absurd simply because of bone structure alone.

Our very own state had a girl win states in wrestling at 106 last year. 54-4 in her career with a year left.

Ok....you got me...There will always be a "one off". I can see a girl at 108 lbs being as strong as boy at 108 lbs and having the skills in wrestling to prevail. We are not talking here about elite athletes in this situation. I suppose she is allowed to wrestle due to the lack of females wanting to engage in this activity. Ill leave this for the HS athletic associations to regulate prudently. I hate it for the guys she beat however....LOL

Amanda Nunes however.. cant compete with the MMA male champion of the equivalent division and would look at us as if we were crazy thinking so. Lets keep this discussion on track. We are talking about a man that decides they want to be a woman and then wants to compete in "one on one" strength, contact or endurance sports with them. Thats just silly. The overwhelming physical and frame advantages make this unfair to the biological females. Its a shame it needs to be legislated frankly. The problem is the uber Left has pushed this so far that something must be done now. Cue Tulsi.

But most of the people impacted by these rules will be at the state scholastic level or at AAU, not elite athletes. When they’re citing Title IX it’s going to be involving everything but the elite athletes.

And it doesn’t need to be legislated.