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(05-30-2023 02:31 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I think the main value of taking all four is the killing of the PAC as a power conference. If you only take two teams and just wound the PAC, they may be back for vengeance in a few years. Not sure we shouldn't see if we can just get Arizona and Colorado and make the B1G deliver the death blow.

^^ This should be the only reason we take in CO, UT, and the two AZ schools, and if this happens as well that would be great...
VV

(05-30-2023 03:08 PM)Cal1362 Wrote:  I believe the reason for taking both AZ schools and even doubling up in UT is to add a solid amount of inventory of west coast/mountain time zone sports to sell making the conference the only 4 time zone choice. This would guarantee that no matter where in the country a viewer (and more importantly an advertiser) is, you would/could see Big XII teams and events as headline/main attraction events that command more viewership eyes and accordingly advertising dollars. The 4 time zone concept alone makes all media rights for the league more valuable IMO if the names are sufficiently attractive - hence Gonzaga and the former Pac 12 schools. Just my two cents worth

As far as the ACC goes, it sounds like that's a longer term play whereas we can potentially put the pac12 in the ground sooner rather than later.

(05-30-2023 03:08 PM)Cal1362 Wrote:  

(05-30-2023 02:16 PM)cincy7718 Wrote:  Still not sure i see the money benefit of arizona AND arizona st. Not positive we'd want to double up in Utah either. Not against it, but seems like doubling up in those states wouldnt be financially worth the add. Especially with more options with a potential acc raid later on the horizon.

I believe the reason for taking both AZ schools and even doubling up in UT is to add a solid amount of inventory of west coast/mountain time zone sports to sell making the conference the only 4 time zone choice. This would guarantee that no matter where in the country a viewer (and more importantly an advertiser) is, you would/could see Big XII teams and events as headline/main attraction events that command more viewership eyes and accordingly advertising dollars. The 4 time zone concept alone makes all media rights for the league more valuable IMO if the names are sufficiently attractive - hence Gonzaga and the former Pac 12 schools. Just my two cents worth

What football school are we considering adding from the Pacific time zone?

(05-31-2023 05:53 PM)eroc Wrote:  

(05-30-2023 02:31 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I think the main value of taking all four is the killing of the PAC as a power conference. If you only take two teams and just wound the PAC, they may be back for vengeance in a few years. Not sure we shouldn't see if we can just get Arizona and Colorado and make the B1G deliver the death blow.

^^ This should be the only reason we take in CO, UT, and the two AZ schools, and if this happens as well that would be great...
VV

(05-30-2023 03:08 PM)Cal1362 Wrote:  I believe the reason for taking both AZ schools and even doubling up in UT is to add a solid amount of inventory of west coast/mountain time zone sports to sell making the conference the only 4 time zone choice. This would guarantee that no matter where in the country a viewer (and more importantly an advertiser) is, you would/could see Big XII teams and events as headline/main attraction events that command more viewership eyes and accordingly advertising dollars. The 4 time zone concept alone makes all media rights for the league more valuable IMO if the names are sufficiently attractive - hence Gonzaga and the former Pac 12 schools. Just my two cents worth

As far as the ACC goes, it sounds like that's a longer term play whereas we can potentially put the pac12 in the ground sooner rather than later.

Thanks everyone for the input. I guess expansion has moved quite a bit beyond immediate tv markets and onto entire time zones, along with a sort of conference survival of the fittest. Should be very interesting to watch it all play out.

Yep, it appears a P4 is soon to be, one way or another.

We shouldn't ignore the value of adding state flagship institutions to the Big 12. After TX/OK departures the only ones remaining are KS and WV. Adding AZ, CO, and UT makes five. These types of institutions have broader support in their states' legislatures, generally get the lion's share of funding for research, capital improvements, etc., and command statewide attention from media and fans. Being the "other" major public university in a given state isn't necessarily a negative in terms of athletic success (see Clemson, Florida State) but as we know, it can be more challenging.

Bearcat sports have enjoyed a tremendous ROI in the past decade and it's exciting to think about our current assets enhanced by triple the revenue and performing weekly on the biggest stages.

(06-01-2023 08:55 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Yep, it appears a P4 is soon to be, one way or another.

We shouldn't ignore the value of adding state flagship institutions to the Big 12. After TX/OK departures the only ones remaining are KS and WV. Adding AZ, CO, and UT makes five. These types of institutions have broader support in their states' legislatures, generally get the lion's share of funding for research, capital improvements, etc., and command statewide attention from media and fans. Being the "other" major public university in a given state isn't necessarily a negative in terms of athletic success (see Clemson, Florida State) but as we know, it can be more challenging.

Bearcat sports have enjoyed a tremendous ROI in the past decade and it's exciting to think about our current assets enhanced by triple the revenue and performing weekly on the biggest stages.

Exactly this. Adding the Arizona schools, Colorado, and Utah strengthens the Big 12 as a whole in the same manner that adding Cincinnati, UCF, etc. would have been a win-win for both parties had the Big 12 pulled the trigger on the invitations back in 2016. Cincinnati's athletic department and all sports would have been able to grow faster and become stronger of P5 revenue over those 7 years than what UC was given in the AAC. At the same time, it would have made the Big 12 a better overall conference heading into deals for media rights, etc. when Texas/Oklahoma left.

Now, the uptick in resources moving from the PAC 12 to the Big 12 isn't as extreme as moving from the AAC but more years of extra exposure and revenue can only improve those 4 schools and insulate the Big 12 should the realignment carousel kick off again with eyes on existing Big 12 schools.

Regardless of what happens in the coming days, I have to say Brett Yormark has done an exceptional job as Big 12 commissioner so far. When TX/OK departed, it appeared the Big 12 could be on the brink of disaster. While his predecessor moved swiftly to expand and stabilize this P5, Yormark arrived and made his presence known by securing an excellent TV deal, taking on the role of the hunter, not the hunted, in conference expansion, and exploring new marketing and branding options.

While I don't think major college sports will ever be a one or two conference game, I do think the Pac 12 is teetering on the brink of extinction as a P5 and the ACC will come undone when that GOR concludes, if not sooner. Who knows what tomorrow holds, but I feel like for once UC is in a pretty safe harbor if big-time college sports becomes a P4 or even a P3.

Imagine making that statement just a couple of years ago while Bearcat sports were toiling in the American?

I hope this Yormark guy knows what he's doing. If even half of the rumors are true, he's passing out invites like candy. He seems to be hell bent on expanding

(06-10-2023 12:49 PM)Dont tase me bro Wrote:  I hope this Yormark guy knows what he's doing. If even half of the rumors are true, he's passing out invites like candy. He seems to be hell bent on expanding

Maybe he is only keeping up the Big XII tradition of asking schools to make presentations.

(06-06-2023 01:56 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Regardless of what happens in the coming days, I have to say Brett Yormark has done an exceptional job as Big 12 commissioner so far. When TX/OK departed, it appeared the Big 12 could be on the brink of disaster. While his predecessor moved swiftly to expand and stabilize this P5, Yormark arrived and made his presence known by securing an excellent TV deal, taking on the role of the hunter, not the hunted, in conference expansion, and exploring new marketing and branding options.

While I don't think major college sports will ever be a one or two conference game, I do think the Pac 12 is teetering on the brink of extinction as a P5 and the ACC will come undone when that GOR concludes, if not sooner. Who knows what tomorrow holds, but I feel like for once UC is in a pretty safe harbor if big-time college sports becomes a P4 or even a P3.

Imagine making that statement just a couple of years ago while Bearcat sports were toiling in the American?

You can’t take it for granted that there will be consolidation into a P4 or P3. The threat to UC is that the B10 and SEC will become a P2, a duopoly, with the other three current power conferences reverting to minor league (G6 or G7) status. The best way for the B12 to counter this risk in the short term is to add state “flagships”; AZ, AState and CO would be huge. In the long term, the B12 should look to form an “eastern division” of ACC refugees, i.e., recreate the best of the old Big East as a division of the B12.

(06-10-2023 03:35 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(06-06-2023 01:56 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Regardless of what happens in the coming days, I have to say Brett Yormark has done an exceptional job as Big 12 commissioner so far. When TX/OK departed, it appeared the Big 12 could be on the brink of disaster. While his predecessor moved swiftly to expand and stabilize this P5, Yormark arrived and made his presence known by securing an excellent TV deal, taking on the role of the hunter, not the hunted, in conference expansion, and exploring new marketing and branding options.

While I don't think major college sports will ever be a one or two conference game, I do think the Pac 12 is teetering on the brink of extinction as a P5 and the ACC will come undone when that GOR concludes, if not sooner. Who knows what tomorrow holds, but I feel like for once UC is in a pretty safe harbor if big-time college sports becomes a P4 or even a P3.

Imagine making that statement just a couple of years ago while Bearcat sports were toiling in the American?

You can’t take it for granted that there will be consolidation into a P4 or P3. The threat to UC is that the B10 and SEC will become a P2, a duopoly, with the other three current power conferences reverting to minor league (G6 or G7) status. The best way for the B12 to counter this risk in the short term is to add state “flagships”; AZ, AState and CO would be huge. In the long term, the B12 should look to form an “eastern division” of ACC refugees, i.e., recreate the best of the old Big East as a division of the B12.

big state and michigan joining the sec would collapse the ncaa. the big ten is nothing without them

The latest rumblings seem to indicate UCONN is a "serious contender" for B12 expansion, especially if Colorado is the lone four corners school to bolt from the Pac 12 at the present time.

https://clutchpoints.com/rumor-potential...-departure

While I believe UCONN is on Yormark's "big board" there is clearly a fair amount of gamesmanship at this stage if past realignment history is a fair predictor of what might happen. By that I mean that any of Utah, ASU, and/or Arizona would get the invitation ahead of UCONN. But meetings with UCONN, a recent national championship, and lots of clout in those northeastern TV markets may create enough heartburn among those other schools' leadership to take the certain money and cable TV coverage in the B12 or face a possible future in a Pac 12 that looks more like the Mountain West.

The only thing UConn is loyal to is jalapeno bacon mac-n-cheese.

(06-13-2023 09:11 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  The latest rumblings seem to indicate UCONN is a "serious contender" for B12 expansion, especially if Colorado is the lone four corners school to bolt from the Pac 12 at the present time.

https://clutchpoints.com/rumor-potential...-departure

While I believe UCONN is on Yormark's "big board" there is clearly a fair amount of gamesmanship at this stage if past realignment history is a fair predictor of what might happen. By that I mean that any of Utah, ASU, and/or Arizona would get the invitation ahead of UCONN. But meetings with UCONN, a recent national championship, and lots of clout in those northeastern TV markets may create enough heartburn among those other schools' leadership to take the certain money and cable TV coverage in the B12 or face a possible future in a Pac 12 that looks more like the Mountain West.

Hopefully he’s just floating UConn to push corner schools to make a decision quickly.

Past actions ought to play a role in future decisions...

Example: Boise State stiffing the BE/AAC on their commitment and financial stakes in the Conference. Why, in the world, would we be excited about Boise State when they already welched on their previous engagement?

UConn walked out on the AAC without previous notice and without even trying to fulfill their obligations. They never cared about "trying to make their partners whole" in the exit: they waited until the last of the "Big East Money" was gone and then they were too. Their exit was not negotiated and, in the end, they paid only slightly more than we ended up paying, for playing more than a year LESS than we did.

Now, look, I "get" that UConn "Did what was in their best interest" and I'm actually fine with that. But in the same vein, WE SHOULD ALSO DO "what is in our best interest"...which means NOT letting UConn screw us over again. UConn spent the entire time in the AAC crapping on everyone else and then flipped us the bird on the way out the door. That's NOT a good precedent for adding them to the "new" conference. UConn needs the Big XII more than the Big XII needs Uconn. If the Big XII doesn't add ANYBODY at this point, we still have the clear third-place media deal behind the SEC and the Big Ten...we still will get more than the ACC and the PAC, and something between FOUR and SEVEN times more than the Big East. We're perfectly FINE without UConn...in fact, the burden of proof here should be on UConn: they complained about travel (which will be far more expensive in the Big XII than the AAC) and lack of "traditional rivals" (which they have NONE of in the Big XII). How in the world would the Big XII work for them? If UConn couldn't/wouldn't compete in the old AAC, why in the world would the Big XII not be an EVEN WORSE situation for UConn???

I'm completely serious here. Just because UConn is a "State Flagship University," how does having them in the Big XII actually work and what's to give any of us any security that they wouldn't drag the Conference down even as they look to make the jump to another conference (say the Big Ten) just as they mooched off the AAC to pimp themselves out to the Big East?

No thanks.

If the B12 is seriously considering UConn then I am seriously concerned about the future of the B12. Otherwise, I am only moderately concerned.

(06-13-2023 11:01 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  Past actions ought to play a role in future decisions...

Example: Boise State stiffing the BE/AAC on their commitment and financial stakes in the Conference. Why, in the world, would we be excited about Boise State when they already welched on their previous engagement?

UConn walked out on the AAC without previous notice and without even trying to fulfill their obligations. They never cared about "trying to make their partners whole" in the exit: they waited until the last of the "Big East Money" was gone and then they were too. Their exit was not negotiated and, in the end, they paid only slightly more than we ended up paying, for playing more than a year LESS than we did.

Now, look, I "get" that UConn "Did what was in their best interest" and I'm actually fine with that. But in the same vein, WE SHOULD ALSO DO "what is in our best interest"...which means NOT letting UConn screw us over again. UConn spent the entire time in the AAC crapping on everyone else and then flipped us the bird on the way out the door. That's NOT a good precedent for adding them to the "new" conference. UConn needs the Big XII more than the Big XII needs Uconn. If the Big XII doesn't add ANYBODY at this point, we still have the clear third-place media deal behind the SEC and the Big Ten...we still will get more than the ACC and the PAC, and something between FOUR and SEVEN times more than the Big East. We're perfectly FINE without UConn...in fact, the burden of proof here should be on UConn: they complained about travel (which will be far more expensive in the Big XII than the AAC) and lack of "traditional rivals" (which they have NONE of in the Big XII). How in the world would the Big XII work for them? If UConn couldn't/wouldn't compete in the old AAC, why in the world would the Big XII not be an EVEN WORSE situation for UConn???

I'm completely serious here. Just because UConn is a "State Flagship University," how does having them in the Big XII actually work and what's to give any of us any security that they wouldn't drag the Conference down even as they look to make the jump to another conference (say the Big Ten) just as they mooched off the AAC to pimp themselves out to the Big East?

No thanks.

Not to mention...

UConn led the charge to sue Boston College and the ACC in 2003 for interference with the Big East.

And by rejoining the Big East, UConn committed to being a basketball-first school. If they left, they would be totally screwing over their historical rivals like Villanova, St John's, etc. If they left for the Big 12, it would be further confirmation that UConn is an unreliable partner.

(06-13-2023 11:35 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  If the B12 is seriously considering UConn then I am seriously concerned about the future of the B12. Otherwise, I am only moderately concerned.

I would be absolutely shocked if the Big 12 added UConn for all sports unless there was a mass exodus from the Big 12 that a created a ton of openings. UConn olympic sports (i.e. men's hoops) to balance out Gonzaga men's hoops? Now that's a different story...

(06-13-2023 12:46 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(06-13-2023 11:35 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  If the B12 is seriously considering UConn then I am seriously concerned about the future of the B12. Otherwise, I am only moderately concerned.

I would be absolutely shocked if the Big 12 added UConn for all sports unless there was a mass exodus from the Big 12 that a created a ton of openings. UConn olympic sports (i.e. men's hoops) to balance out Gonzaga men's hoops? Now that's a different story...

As a single add UConn makes no sense. As part of an eastern division with Pitt, WVU, Syracuse, Cincinnati & Louisville, it makes a lot of sense.

(06-13-2023 04:16 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(06-13-2023 12:46 PM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  

(06-13-2023 11:35 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  If the B12 is seriously considering UConn then I am seriously concerned about the future of the B12. Otherwise, I am only moderately concerned.

I would be absolutely shocked if the Big 12 added UConn for all sports unless there was a mass exodus from the Big 12 that a created a ton of openings. UConn olympic sports (i.e. men's hoops) to balance out Gonzaga men's hoops? Now that's a different story...

As a single add UConn makes no sense. As part of an eastern division with Pitt, WVU, Syracuse, Cincinnati & Louisville, it makes a lot of sense.

Bolded, agreed. Maybe Yormark believes the ACC comes undone sooner rather than later and he can build around Cincy and UCONN with other old Big East foes to create that "coast to coast" conference he's alluded to previously.

I still prefer the four corners--or at least one, two or three of them.

Just out of curiosity, why is everyone so vehemently opposed to UConn? They bring an Eastern presence, a state flagship school, and a rich basketball tradition. Plus we saw in the Big East that they can compete in football if given a level playing field within the conference. The downfall is the travel but at this point does that really matter. With schools all the way from Florida to Ohio to Utah this already dang near a coast-to-coast conference.