Fighting Muskie
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Random 1990s Big Sky question
I’m the 1990s the Big Sky lost Nevada, Idaho, and Boise St (all to the Big West)
There solution for the 1996 season was to add Portland St, Sacramento St, and Cal St Northridge to bring them back to 9.
This killed the fledgling American West Conference. SUU went to the Summit and Cal Poly went to Big West. Both of their football programs went Indy. And so it was until 2004 when the Great West Football Conference formed.
Cal St Northridge ultimately burned them and bailed.
My question is this, why not go to 10 in 1996 and bring in Cal Poly too? Maybe Northridge keeps football. Maybe you bring in SUU and UC Davis a few years later and go to divisions:
North: EWU, Portland St, Idaho St, Weber St, Montana, Montana St
South: UC Davis, Sac St, Cal Poly, CSUN, SUU, NAU
Seems pretty nice to me.
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12-09-2020 09:16 PM |
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SDHornet
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RE: Random 1990s Big Sky question
Interesting. I don't think anything would have saved Northridge FB (or any of the CSU's and UC's that dropped it in the 90's) as it was weak leadership that led to the decisions(s) to cut the sport.
Not sure what the student enrollment on Northridge was at the time, but a minor student fee would have easily been enough to keep the program alive. If Sac State was able to get it done to keep FB, then any of those CSU's and UC's could have done it. The reason they didn't: poor/weak leadership.
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12-09-2020 09:54 PM |
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esayem
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RE: Random 1990s Big Sky question
Nevada left first I believe. Then the Big Sky voted to reduce football scholarships, or at least the majority was speaking in favor of the reduction. This lead Idaho and Boise State to leave for 1-A. I’m guessing the replacements were more like-minded with the remaining schools.
MTSU was another school that left their respective conference for the same reason. I think they were in the OVC, and there was even talk of the Blue Raiders jumping to the SoCon, because that conference was opposed to scholarship reduction and would consider moving to 1-A as a group. A new conference made of HBCUs was considering banding together to move up as well.
I stumbled upon a lot of this info because I was interested in what was driving the mass move-ups in the 90’s.
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12-09-2020 10:02 PM |
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Fighting Muskie
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RE: Random 1990s Big Sky question
(12-09-2020 09:54 PM)SDHornet Wrote: Interesting. I don't think anything would have saved Northridge FB (or any of the CSU's and UC's that dropped it in the 90's) as it was weak leadership that led to the decisions(s) to cut the sport.
Not sure what the student enrollment on Northridge was at the time, but a minor student fee would have easily been enough to keep the program alive. If Sac State was able to get it done to keep FB, then any of those CSU's and UC's could have done it. The reason they didn't: poor/weak leadership.
The 90s and 00s were a bad time for CA football. All of these programs folded:
St Mary’s
Pacific
CSUN
Long Beach St
Cal St Fullerton
It’s a wonder Cal Poly, UC Davis and Sac St survived, especially the first 2 since they spent 1996-2010ish outside of a conference with an autobid. It just seems odd that the Big Sky didn’t do more to try and get a CA presence.
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12-09-2020 10:15 PM |
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Fighting Muskie
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RE: Random 1990s Big Sky question
(12-09-2020 10:02 PM)esayem Wrote: Nevada left first I believe. Then the Big Sky voted to reduce football scholarships, or at least the majority was speaking in favor of the reduction. This lead Idaho and Boise State to leave for 1-A. I’m guessing the replacements were more like-minded with the remaining schools.
MTSU was another school that left their respective conference for the same reason. I think they were in the OVC, and there was even talk of the Blue Raiders jumping to the SoCon, because that conference was opposed to scholarship reduction and would consider moving to 1-A as a group. A new conference made of HBCUs was considering banding together to move up as well.
I stumbled upon a lot of this info because I was interested in what was driving the mass move-ups in the 90’s.
I’d say the biggest cause of the 90s move ups was the 80s forced demotions.
Kidding aside, forcing all those schools down was a pretty ruthless move.
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12-09-2020 10:19 PM |
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solohawks
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RE: Random 1990s Big Sky question
(12-09-2020 09:54 PM)SDHornet Wrote: Interesting. I don't think anything would have saved Northridge FB (or any of the CSU's and UC's that dropped it in the 90's) as it was weak leadership that led to the decisions(s) to cut the sport.
Not sure what the student enrollment on Northridge was at the time, but a minor student fee would have easily been enough to keep the program alive. If Sac State was able to get it done to keep FB, then any of those CSU's and UC's could have done it. The reason they didn't: poor/weak leadership.
Why didn't the Big West let Sacramento St in when Poly, Davis, and Northridge all got in?
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12-09-2020 10:23 PM |
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Fighting Muskie
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RE: Random 1990s Big Sky question
(12-09-2020 10:23 PM)solohawks Wrote: (12-09-2020 09:54 PM)SDHornet Wrote: Interesting. I don't think anything would have saved Northridge FB (or any of the CSU's and UC's that dropped it in the 90's) as it was weak leadership that led to the decisions(s) to cut the sport.
Not sure what the student enrollment on Northridge was at the time, but a minor student fee would have easily been enough to keep the program alive. If Sac State was able to get it done to keep FB, then any of those CSU's and UC's could have done it. The reason they didn't: poor/weak leadership.
Why didn't the Big West let Sacramento St in when Poly, Davis, and Northridge all got in?
I’d say it was because Sac St wanted the security of a football conference with an autobid.
Ironically, if Sac St had joined the Big West the Big West or Great West could have had the 6 they needed:
Sac St
Cal Poly
UC Davis
SUU
ND St/UND
SD St/USD
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12-09-2020 10:26 PM |
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jdgaucho
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RE: Random 1990s Big Sky question
(12-09-2020 10:23 PM)solohawks Wrote: (12-09-2020 09:54 PM)SDHornet Wrote: Interesting. I don't think anything would have saved Northridge FB (or any of the CSU's and UC's that dropped it in the 90's) as it was weak leadership that led to the decisions(s) to cut the sport.
Not sure what the student enrollment on Northridge was at the time, but a minor student fee would have easily been enough to keep the program alive. If Sac State was able to get it done to keep FB, then any of those CSU's and UC's could have done it. The reason they didn't: poor/weak leadership.
Why didn't the Big West let Sacramento St in when Poly, Davis, and Northridge all got in?
Lots of moving parts during that decade. They didn't all join together.
- 1996. Poly was packaged with Boise, North Texas and Idaho. This was in response to UNLV and San Jose State leaving. Big West was still 1-A / FBS then.
- 2001. Northridge got in as a replacement for Boise. Incidentally, Northridge joined the year after the Big West dropped football and subsequently dropped football themselves in 2002.
- 2003. Davis was added as an eventual replacement for Utah State and Idaho, who departed in 2005. There was no interest in Sac State by then.
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2020 10:49 PM by jdgaucho.)
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12-09-2020 10:46 PM |
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SDHornet
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RE: Random 1990s Big Sky question
(12-09-2020 10:26 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: (12-09-2020 10:23 PM)solohawks Wrote: (12-09-2020 09:54 PM)SDHornet Wrote: Interesting. I don't think anything would have saved Northridge FB (or any of the CSU's and UC's that dropped it in the 90's) as it was weak leadership that led to the decisions(s) to cut the sport.
Not sure what the student enrollment on Northridge was at the time, but a minor student fee would have easily been enough to keep the program alive. If Sac State was able to get it done to keep FB, then any of those CSU's and UC's could have done it. The reason they didn't: poor/weak leadership.
Why didn't the Big West let Sacramento St in when Poly, Davis, and Northridge all got in?
I’d say it was because Sac St wanted the security of a football conference with an autobid.
Ironically, if Sac St had joined the Big West the Big West or Great West could have had the 6 they needed:
Sac St
Cal Poly
UC Davis
SUU
ND St/UND
SD St/USD
The Hornets weren't going to risk FB stability. Also keep in mind the GW was where the D2 move ups spent their transition from D2. All the former GW members on that list except CP moved up from D2.
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12-09-2020 11:08 PM |
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Fighting Muskie
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RE: Random 1990s Big Sky question
It seems like the Big Sky could have had Sac St and Cal Poly in 1996 and still had them both today. They took CSUN instead and got burned. But rather than replace a CA school for a CA school they brought in UNC a full 5 yrs after they lost CSUN.
I wonder how much of that had to do with Cal Poly being cozy in a CA bus league with Olympic sports for a whole decade. They just weren’t willing to make a football first move.
I wonder if Great West football still happens with ND St, SD St, UNC, SUU, and UC Davis then
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12-09-2020 11:16 PM |
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SDHornet
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RE: Random 1990s Big Sky question
(12-09-2020 11:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: It seems like the Big Sky could have had Sac St and Cal Poly in 1996 and still had them both today. They took CSUN instead and got burned. But rather than replace a CA school for a CA school they brought in UNC a full 5 yrs after they lost CSUN.
I wonder how much of that had to do with Cal Poly being cozy in a CA bus league with Olympic sports for a whole decade. They just weren’t willing to make a football first move.
I wonder if Great West football still happens with ND St, SD St, UNC, SUU, and UC Davis then
The BSC wasn't taking affiliate members at the time, and weren't until CP and davis were added to block WAC expansion in '12. So no, joining the BW in '96 would have left Hornet football homeless when the BW FB members left/dropped FB.
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2020 11:20 PM by SDHornet.)
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12-09-2020 11:19 PM |
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jdgaucho
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RE: Random 1990s Big Sky question
(12-09-2020 11:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: It seems like the Big Sky could have had Sac St and Cal Poly in 1996 and still had them both today. They took CSUN instead and got burned. But rather than replace a CA school for a CA school they brought in UNC a full 5 yrs after they lost CSUN.
I wonder how much of that had to do with Cal Poly being cozy in a CA bus league with Olympic sports for a whole decade. They just weren’t willing to make a football first move.
I wonder if Great West football still happens with ND St, SD St, UNC, SUU, and UC Davis then
UNT, NMSU, Idaho, USU, Boise and Nevada were all there when Cal Poly first joined. That must have been one helluva bus ride to Denton, Las Cruces and Moscow from San Luis Obispo
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12-09-2020 11:30 PM |
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Fighting Muskie
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RE: Random 1990s Big Sky question
(12-09-2020 11:19 PM)SDHornet Wrote: (12-09-2020 11:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: It seems like the Big Sky could have had Sac St and Cal Poly in 1996 and still had them both today. They took CSUN instead and got burned. But rather than replace a CA school for a CA school they brought in UNC a full 5 yrs after they lost CSUN.
I wonder how much of that had to do with Cal Poly being cozy in a CA bus league with Olympic sports for a whole decade. They just weren’t willing to make a football first move.
I wonder if Great West football still happens with ND St, SD St, UNC, SUU, and UC Davis then
The BSC wasn't taking affiliate members at the time, and weren't until CP and davis were added to block WAC expansion in '12. So no, joining the BW in '96 would have left Hornet football homeless when the BW FB members left/dropped FB.
Right—but I’m talking about taking Cal Poly, either in addition to or instead of SUN as a full member in 1996.
If CSUN keeps football and CSUN, Cal Poly, and Sac St are all full members then if you’re UC Davis a few years later the Big Sky looks a lot more attractive than the Big West:
UC Irvine, UCSB, Long Beach St, Cal St Fullerton, UC Riverside, Pacific, Utah St, Idaho, (they lost the last 2 in 2005)
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12-10-2020 12:40 PM |
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dbackjon
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RE: Random 1990s Big Sky question
Nevada outgrew the Big Sky first - they were drawing 30K, and support well beyond any other school in the Big Sky besides Boise. The Montana Schools were drawing under 10K, and Montana played in an absolute dump.
A few years later Boise realized they had outgrown the Big Sky and wanted FBS. Idaho wasn't ready, and didn't have the resources, but didn't want to be overshadowed by Boise (which happened anyways)
When CSUN/Portland/Sac St joined, there were requirements put forth - facilities upgrades, scholarship requirements (all three were on limited football scholarships) and sports requirements. Northridge failed on all three counts, and was in danger of being booted. The Big West was a better fit in all sports except football, so dropping football and moving to the Big West was best all around
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12-10-2020 01:20 PM |
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