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(12-09-2020 01:43 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  They haven’t played anyone. They beat two (that’s right 2) D2 glorified high schools and 2 dreadful D1 programs that are a combined 1-8. If that is enough to get you rates in the top 75 of anything, bless their soul.

If we struggle playing a team at 5th 3rd from the Southern Conference, we have a problem.

They're picked to win the Southern Conference. A Southern Conference team dominated its first round game in the last NCAA tournament (against Seton Hall) before losing a close game to Kentucky. I guess we can pretend teams are bad because of the conference they play in but that seems silly to me.

(12-09-2020 01:36 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  Please find me a time when UC was only a two point favorite against a Southern League opponent.... Good Luck....

Don't use conference to determine whether a team is quality or not. On the football side, we get pissed when people do that same exact thing to us and it's bull****.

I'd assume you were aware but it's possible to be a good team in an average or mediocre conference.

That being said, yes computer metrics are saying Furman is a very good team.

https://www.masseyratings.com/cb/compare.htm

(12-09-2020 01:46 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 01:43 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  They haven’t played anyone. They beat two (that’s right 2) D2 glorified high schools and 2 dreadful D1 programs that are a combined 1-8. If that is enough to get you rates in the top 75 of anything, bless their soul.

If we struggle playing a team at 5th 3rd from the Southern Conference, we have a problem.

They're picked to win the Southern Conference. A Southern Conference team dominated its first round game in the last NCAA tournament (against Seton Hall) before losing a close game to Kentucky. I guess we can pretend teams are bad because of the conference they play in but that seems silly to me.

Don't we all get livid when the same bull**** assumptions are thrown at us in football? Now we're going to turn around and do the same in basketball? Something something, stones and glass houses.

"They play football in the AAC so let's automatically write them off as mediocre."

Don’t care if they are picked to win the internet. We should crush them.

Vogt and Rap will look fleet of foot and all world in this one.

(12-09-2020 01:46 PM)UCBearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 01:11 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 01:04 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 09:28 AM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  Surprised there has been no talk about this game. This will not be an easy one. They are a legit opponent that returns nearly all of their best players and they were picked to win the Southern Conference. This would be a pick-em on a neutral court. We are currently 2.5 point favorites.

This right there needs to tell you how far this program has fallen in two years...

You do realize that this program would be here regardless of who the coach was due to the crazy amount of roster turnover. Hell, it may be worse with Cronin's proclivity for staying away from adequate transfers...MAYBE that's WHY Cronin left like so many of us were talking about. He knew the state the roster would be in for this season.

The roster would be so different and so would the style of play. Right now the program is basically an unfinished product but I am not sold on the direction we are going yet. I though Brannen did enough in conference play to not be a considered a year one failure but there are still big issues.

Despite Mick’s NCAA failures he still won 30, 31, and 28 games in his last three years earning single digit seeds and two conference tournament championship. Right now the program seems worlds away from those benchmarks. Right now the team seems closer to 2003 and 2009 level talent. Good enough to compete but with serious problems.

I agree...and we would've been there regardless of head coach.

Logan Johnson (currently not getting minutes in the WCC)
Trevor Moore (currently shooting 31/21/74 at Morgan State)
Keith Williams (Here)
Laquill Hardnett (backup minutes at Buffalo averaging 4.4 points combined in this season and last season there)
Eliel Nsoseme (still hasn't found a pass he can catch on offense)

That more than likely would've been our starting 5 this year based on roster turnover. Are you telling me that team would've been better than what we're fielding at the moment?

Here's who we wouldn't have...MAW, David DeJulius, Zach Harvey, Tari Eason, Chris Vogt, or Rap. So tell me again why this season would've been better?

(12-09-2020 01:53 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 01:46 PM)UCBearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 01:11 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 01:04 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 09:28 AM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  Surprised there has been no talk about this game. This will not be an easy one. They are a legit opponent that returns nearly all of their best players and they were picked to win the Southern Conference. This would be a pick-em on a neutral court. We are currently 2.5 point favorites.

This right there needs to tell you how far this program has fallen in two years...

You do realize that this program would be here regardless of who the coach was due to the crazy amount of roster turnover. Hell, it may be worse with Cronin's proclivity for staying away from adequate transfers...MAYBE that's WHY Cronin left like so many of us were talking about. He knew the state the roster would be in for this season.

The roster would be so different and so would the style of play. Right now the program is basically an unfinished product but I am not sold on the direction we are going yet. I though Brannen did enough in conference play to not be a considered a year one failure but there are still big issues.

Despite Mick’s NCAA failures he still won 30, 31, and 28 games in his last three years earning single digit seeds and two conference tournament championship. Right now the program seems worlds away from those benchmarks. Right now the team seems closer to 2003 and 2009 level talent. Good enough to compete but with serious problems.

I agree...and we would've been there regardless of head coach.

Logan Johnson (currently not getting minutes in the WCC)
Trevor Moore (currently shooting 31/21/74 at Morgan State)
Keith Williams (Here)
Laquill Hardnett (backup minutes at Buffalo averaging 4.4 points combined in this season and last season there)
Eliel Nsoseme (still hasn't found a pass he can catch on offense)

That more than likely would've been our starting 5 this year based on roster turnover. Are you telling me that team would've been better than what we're fielding at the moment?

I disagree that that would have been out starting 5 anymore than saying At this time last year looking ahead we’d have Vogt, Williams, MAW, Diarra and Harvey starting.

With transfers and immediate eligibility, grad transfers, JUCOS and freshmen, it’s impossible anymore to predict 1 year out let alone 2.

(12-09-2020 02:01 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 01:53 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 01:46 PM)UCBearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 01:11 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 01:04 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  This right there needs to tell you how far this program has fallen in two years...

You do realize that this program would be here regardless of who the coach was due to the crazy amount of roster turnover. Hell, it may be worse with Cronin's proclivity for staying away from adequate transfers...MAYBE that's WHY Cronin left like so many of us were talking about. He knew the state the roster would be in for this season.

The roster would be so different and so would the style of play. Right now the program is basically an unfinished product but I am not sold on the direction we are going yet. I though Brannen did enough in conference play to not be a considered a year one failure but there are still big issues.

Despite Mick’s NCAA failures he still won 30, 31, and 28 games in his last three years earning single digit seeds and two conference tournament championship. Right now the program seems worlds away from those benchmarks. Right now the team seems closer to 2003 and 2009 level talent. Good enough to compete but with serious problems.

I agree...and we would've been there regardless of head coach.

Logan Johnson (currently not getting minutes in the WCC)
Trevor Moore (currently shooting 31/21/74 at Morgan State)
Keith Williams (Here)
Laquill Hardnett (backup minutes at Buffalo averaging 4.4 points combined in this season and last season there)
Eliel Nsoseme (still hasn't found a pass he can catch on offense)

That more than likely would've been our starting 5 this year based on roster turnover. Are you telling me that team would've been better than what we're fielding at the moment?

I disagree that that would have been out starting 5 anymore than saying At this time last year looking ahead we’d have Vogt, Williams, MAW, Diarra and Harvey starting.

With transfers and immediate eligibility, grad transfers, JUCOS and freshmen, it’s impossible anymore to predict 1 year out let alone 2.

Cronin was extremely clear about his hatred of taking transfers in his time here and his record with Jucos was WONDERFUL . To anyone who had any sort of eye on the future, this was always going to be a rough year, but I feel like we at least have a good foundation for the future with our young guys, especially if they keep getting minutes like they have so far.

Regardless, this is going to be a difficult game against a team that shoots the lights out. The one plus side is that we seem to do better defending the perimeter than the interior at the moment, so that my help us.

He took Cane Broom and is taking transfers at UCLA. I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. If we struggle against Furman, this team is in trouble and it won’t be because of talent. UC has more talent on its roster than Furman does.

(12-09-2020 01:46 PM)UCBearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 01:11 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 01:04 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  

(12-09-2020 09:28 AM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  Surprised there has been no talk about this game. This will not be an easy one. They are a legit opponent that returns nearly all of their best players and they were picked to win the Southern Conference. This would be a pick-em on a neutral court. We are currently 2.5 point favorites.

This right there needs to tell you how far this program has fallen in two years...

You do realize that this program would be here regardless of who the coach was due to the crazy amount of roster turnover. Hell, it may be worse with Cronin's proclivity for staying away from adequate transfers...MAYBE that's WHY Cronin left like so many of us were talking about. He knew the state the roster would be in for this season.

The roster would be so different and so would the style of play. Right now the program is basically an unfinished product but I am not sold on the direction we are going yet. I though Brannen did enough in conference play to not be a considered a year one failure but there are still big issues.

Despite Mick’s NCAA failures he still won 30, 31, and 28 games in his last three years earning single digit seeds and two conference tournament championship. Right now the program seems worlds away from those benchmarks. Right now the team seems closer to 2003 and 2009 level talent. Good enough to compete but with serious problems.

Only took him about 12 years to get to that point. CJB has hardly had an easy go of it to try and get his rebuild going. Let alone turning over 10 players over two years...so yeah one would assume there would be some issues with the roster. Even with the holes on the roster we still got a share of a conference championship along with a Houston team that was much better than us.

(12-09-2020 02:08 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  He took Cane Broom and is taking transfers at UCLA. I’m not sure what point you are trying to make. If we struggle against Furman, this team is in trouble and it won’t be because of talent. UC has more talent on its roster than Furman does.

I agree completely with your last two statements.

My point was that someone inferred a "why" for where the program is (by using a Vegas betting line) that I do not tend to believe is true, and I gave information to contest that point.

Gotcha.

I watched a bit of their Charleston game...they have a guard who can score but their front line is undersized and stick thin. Unless we do nothing but settle for jumpers Vogt will have 15+ tonight just from showing up in the gym since he’s 6 inches and 60 lbs heavier than the guys who will be on him down low most of the time. They play 3 skinny forwards with no center most of the time. It’s the kind of team that none of their starters would be taking minutes from our starters if they were all on the same squad. Reason we are only a couple point favorites at home is we looked so dang shaky Sunday, IMO.

(12-09-2020 04:05 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Gotcha.

I watched a bit of their Charleston game...they have a guard who can score but their front line is undersized and stick thin. Unless we do nothing but settle for jumpers Vogt will have 15+ tonight just from showing up in the gym since he’s 6 inches and 60 lbs heavier than the guys who will be on him down low most of the time. They play 3 skinny forwards with no center most of the time. It’s the kind of team that none of their starters would be taking minutes from our starters if they were all on the same squad. Reason we are only a couple point favorites at home is we looked so dang shaky Sunday, IMO.

IMO Vogt should have scored a lot more against Xavier. None of their bigs could guard him in the post, but we don't do a very good job of getting it to him down there.

Defense will be key. They shoot it well from outside, including their bigs, so our bigs could be away from the hoop and forced to guard a lot. We have the advantage inside on offense, but if we can;t stop them, we may need to play a faster lineup.

Eason gets the start for defensive matchup reasons.

The second team looks way more disconnected on defense than the first team was.

The culture just isn't built yet to be able to plug in new pieces and reload every year.

Like I said, talent is not close.

I think I've seen UC throw a pass to a player standing with one foot out of bounds on the sideline about 5 times this year. Is the court too small for UC?

Also - my wife with an important comment about Saunders - "his hair looks like fireworks".

We do not look like anything resembling a unit

I wouldn’t play rap, really poor fit.