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OT: WAC Football Returning?
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Bobcat87 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-06-2021 10:38 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Soooo....will UTA have any interest in this league?

. . . They might want to bring back football . . . you know . . before expressing interest in a “might be” league . . .
01-06-2021 10:43 AM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-06-2021 10:38 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Soooo....will UTA have any interest in this league?

I can't speak for UTA fans but why would they leave the Sun Belt for a worse football and basketball league?
01-06-2021 10:54 AM
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Troy_Fan_15 Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
If the WAC does the move up what will stop others? What or how do the current FBS G5 teams show they are not just slightly better and deserve their spot in fbs and a potential expanded playoff?
01-06-2021 02:46 PM
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CajunAmos Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-06-2021 02:46 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  If the WAC does the move up what will stop others? What or how do the current FBS G5 teams show they are not just slightly better and deserve their spot in fbs and a potential expanded playoff?

I know the COVID year has disrupted this, but do those teams meeting the minimum attendance threshold for FBS competition in a typical three year timeframe?
01-06-2021 03:20 PM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-06-2021 03:20 PM)CajunAmos Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 02:46 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  If the WAC does the move up what will stop others? What or how do the current FBS G5 teams show they are not just slightly better and deserve their spot in fbs and a potential expanded playoff?

I know the COVID year has disrupted this, but do those teams meeting the minimum attendance threshold for FBS competition in a typical three year timeframe?

No. Looking at attendance over 3 years I dont think any of them average more than 10k. I think of the bunch Tarleton was the only one above 10k in 2019. Ironic.

But we all know no one cares about the NCAA attendance rule
01-06-2021 03:32 PM
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Usajags Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-06-2021 03:32 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:20 PM)CajunAmos Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 02:46 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  If the WAC does the move up what will stop others? What or how do the current FBS G5 teams show they are not just slightly better and deserve their spot in fbs and a potential expanded playoff?

I know the COVID year has disrupted this, but do those teams meeting the minimum attendance threshold for FBS competition in a typical three year timeframe?

No. Looking at attendance over 3 years I dont think any of them average more than 10k. I think of the bunch Tarleton was the only one above 10k in 2019. Ironic.

But we all know no one cares about the NCAA attendance rule

A couple of them have stadiums that only hold 12-13k. Coastal also didn’t have the numbers before moving up because their stadium also wasn’t big enough. Besides, the NCAA attendance requirement is a joke, otherwise the MAC wouldn’t be FBS.
01-06-2021 03:36 PM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-06-2021 03:36 PM)Usajags Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:32 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:20 PM)CajunAmos Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 02:46 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  If the WAC does the move up what will stop others? What or how do the current FBS G5 teams show they are not just slightly better and deserve their spot in fbs and a potential expanded playoff?

I know the COVID year has disrupted this, but do those teams meeting the minimum attendance threshold for FBS competition in a typical three year timeframe?

No. Looking at attendance over 3 years I dont think any of them average more than 10k. I think of the bunch Tarleton was the only one above 10k in 2019. Ironic.

But we all know no one cares about the NCAA attendance rule

A couple of them have stadiums that only hold 12-13k. Coastal also didn’t have the numbers before moving up because their stadium also wasn’t big enough. Besides, the NCAA attendance requirement is a joke, otherwise the MAC wouldn’t be FBS.

Thats true that they are limited by the stadium size but besides Tarleton none of their averages are close to their capacity. SHSU averaged less than 5k in 2019
01-06-2021 03:40 PM
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wewererebels Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-06-2021 10:54 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 10:38 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Soooo....will UTA have any interest in this league?

I can't speak for UTA fans but why would they leave the Sun Belt for a worse football and basketball league?

I can't speak for other UTA fans, but i wouldn't want us to move unless there were three or more nearby potential rival schools in the league AND we were definitely restarting football. WAC's large footprint and lack of near peer universities would likely disqualify it from consideration. My one caveat is that if it meant bringing back football, I would be happy for UTA to be in the 'Belt, MAC, Ivy, SWAC, Southland, or any other conference that plays eleven-man football.
01-06-2021 04:54 PM
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
This is from the NCAA Stats site. Dixie State expanded their stadium for the 2018 season.

Institution — Conference — Total Attend — Avg Attend — Stadium Cap — Pct Cap — Games
2017
Abilene Christian — Southland — 52,204 — 10,441 — 15,000 — 69.61 — 5
Lamar — Southland — 33,034 — 6,607 — 16,000 — 41.29 — 5
Sam Houston State — Southland — 55,889 — 6,986 — 14,000 — 49.90 — 8
Stephen F. Austin State — Southland — 56,881 — 11,376 — 14,575 — 78.05 — 5
Southern Utah — Big Sky — 57,231 — 9,539 — 8,500 — 112.22 — 6
Dixie State — Rocky Mountain — 18,065 — 3,011 — 5,500 — 54.74 — 6
Tarleton State — Lone Star — 26,537 — 5,307 — 7,000 — 75.82 — 5
2018
Abilene Christian — Southland — 44,953 — 8,991 — 9,000 — 99.90 — 5
Lamar — Southland — 42,462 — 7,077 — 16,000 — 44.23 — 6
Sam Houston State — Southland — 39,554 — 7,911 — 14,000 — 56.51 — 5
Stephen F. Austin State — Southland — 21,189 — 5,297 — 14,575 — 36.34 — 4
Southern Utah — Big Sky — 41,019 — 8,204 — 8,500 — 96.52 — 5
Dixie State — Rocky Mountain — 17,502 — 3,500 — 10,000 — 35.00 — 5
Tarleton State — Lone Star — 37,692 — 4,712 — 7,000 — 67.31 — 8
2019
Abilene Christian — Southland — 47,291 — 7,882 — 9,000 — 87.58 — 6
Lamar — Southland — 43,037 — 7,173 — 16,000 — 44.83 — 6
Sam Houston State — Southland — 29,267 — 4,878 — 14,000 — 34.84 — 6
Stephen F. Austin State — Southland — 33,294 — 8,324 — 14,575 — 57.11 — 4
Southern Utah — Big Sky — 23,985 — 4,797 — 8,500 — 56.44 — 5
Dixie State — Rocky Mountain — 22,746 — 3,791 — 10,000 — 37.91 — 6
Tarleton State — Lone Star — 53,711 — 8,952 — 9,000 — 99.46 — 6
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2021 06:19 PM by AZcats.)
01-06-2021 05:03 PM
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Troy_Fan_15 Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football ReturningIf we beco,e
(01-06-2021 03:40 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:36 PM)Usajags Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:32 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:20 PM)CajunAmos Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 02:46 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  If the WAC does the move up what will stop others? What or how do the current FBS G5 teams show they are not just slightly better and deserve their spot in fbs and a potential expanded playoff?

I know the COVID year has disrupted this, but do those teams meeting the minimum attendance threshold for FBS competition in a typical three year timeframe?

No. Looking at attendance over 3 years I dont think any of them average more than 10k. I think of the bunch Tarleton was the only one above 10k in 2019. Ironic.

But we all know no one cares about the NCAA attendance rule

A couple of them have stadiums that only hold 12-13k. Coastal also didn’t have the numbers before moving up because their stadium also wasn’t big enough. Besides, the NCAA attendance requirement is a joke, otherwise the MAC wouldn’t be FBS.

Thats true that they are limited by the stadium size but besides Tarleton none of their averages are close to their capacity. SHSU averaged less than 5k in 2019

So we are confident the NCAA will uphold that rule? I know none of us want to be FCS 2.0 but I’m afraid that’s what’s could happen if we have the G6 G7 or larger.
01-06-2021 05:20 PM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-06-2021 05:20 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:40 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:36 PM)Usajags Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:32 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:20 PM)CajunAmos Wrote:  I know the COVID year has disrupted this, but do those teams meeting the minimum attendance threshold for FBS competition in a typical three year timeframe?

No. Looking at attendance over 3 years I dont think any of them average more than 10k. I think of the bunch Tarleton was the only one above 10k in 2019. Ironic.

But we all know no one cares about the NCAA attendance rule

A couple of them have stadiums that only hold 12-13k. Coastal also didn’t have the numbers before moving up because their stadium also wasn’t big enough. Besides, the NCAA attendance requirement is a joke, otherwise the MAC wouldn’t be FBS.

Thats true that they are limited by the stadium size but besides Tarleton none of their averages are close to their capacity. SHSU averaged less than 5k in 2019

So we are confident the NCAA will uphold that rule? I know none of us want to be FCS 2.0 but I’m afraid that’s what’s could happen if we have the G6 G7 or larger.

Like i said in an earlier post, that rule means nothing anymore.

I just hope that since the p5 can gatekeep, the G5 can too.
01-06-2021 05:46 PM
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geauxcajuns Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-05-2021 01:15 PM)Usajags Wrote:  
(01-05-2021 01:11 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-05-2021 12:13 PM)Usajags Wrote:  
(01-05-2021 12:03 PM)Volkmar Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 02:59 PM)Usajags Wrote:  With all the unhappy CUSA talk, and the WAC seemingly bring back football. I could see in about 3 years some of those western CUSA teams don’t bail out and head back to the WAC. I say back, because many of them have been there before. That could make FBS WAC football look like this:

Abilene Christian
Lamar
Stephen F Austin
Sam Houston State
NMSU
UTEP
UTSA

Dixie St
Tarleton St
Southern Utah

2025 college football landscape will look very different.

*had to edit and add Southern Utah to the list.

That's just nuts. UTEP and UTSA will ABSOLUTELY NOT go FCS!! I'm an open-minded person and generally try to be congenial on here, but that's seriously one of the dumbest posts I've read in the time I've been on CSN.

That UTSA education is showing. Never said you would go FCS, this is an FBS WAC scenario. Learn to comprehend before responding.

But why is it assumed that these schools would be allowed to be FBS?

The NCAA can’t stop you from being FBS a long as you meet the requirements. Liberty showed that a couple years ago.

Liberty is an extreme outlier. They are not a good example. Being a private parochial university that has a huge Christian base to draw from puts them at an advantage that no SLC/WAC program has.
01-06-2021 06:59 PM
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Gemofthehills Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-06-2021 06:59 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  
(01-05-2021 01:15 PM)Usajags Wrote:  
(01-05-2021 01:11 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-05-2021 12:13 PM)Usajags Wrote:  
(01-05-2021 12:03 PM)Volkmar Wrote:  That's just nuts. UTEP and UTSA will ABSOLUTELY NOT go FCS!! I'm an open-minded person and generally try to be congenial on here, but that's seriously one of the dumbest posts I've read in the time I've been on CSN.

That UTSA education is showing. Never said you would go FCS, this is an FBS WAC scenario. Learn to comprehend before responding.

But why is it assumed that these schools would be allowed to be FBS?

The NCAA can’t stop you from being FBS a long as you meet the requirements. Liberty showed that a couple years ago.

Liberty is an extreme outlier. They are not a good example. Being a private parochial university that has a huge Christian base to draw from puts them at an advantage that no SLC/WAC program has.

Liberty is an outlier in financial terms, but the NCAA cant use religion or private as a reason to turn others down. Doubt you will see any of the mentioned schools go independent but as group they could. NCAA may try to block a move but I have no idea of a logical reason they could use.
01-07-2021 08:11 AM
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Gemofthehills Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-06-2021 05:46 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 05:20 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:40 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:36 PM)Usajags Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:32 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  No. Looking at attendance over 3 years I dont think any of them average more than 10k. I think of the bunch Tarleton was the only one above 10k in 2019. Ironic.

But we all know no one cares about the NCAA attendance rule

A couple of them have stadiums that only hold 12-13k. Coastal also didn’t have the numbers before moving up because their stadium also wasn’t big enough. Besides, the NCAA attendance requirement is a joke, otherwise the MAC wouldn’t be FBS.

Thats true that they are limited by the stadium size but besides Tarleton none of their averages are close to their capacity. SHSU averaged less than 5k in 2019

So we are confident the NCAA will uphold that rule? I know none of us want to be FCS 2.0 but I’m afraid that’s what’s could happen if we have the G6 G7 or larger.

Like i said in an earlier post, that rule means nothing anymore.

I just hope that since the p5 can gatekeep, the G5 can too.

G5 will have a harder time gatekeeping because of money and attendance. P5 will only consist of well funded universities and G5 will have several schools with less funding and attendance than FCS schools.

If P5 does break expect the better funded G5 schools to get an invite and the weaker left to play with their peers. The same will hold true with G5 and FCS. FCS is down to just a few schools trying to compete in football and a desire to move up. My guess is 10-15 are all that would move if offered under a similar set of standards set today by G5 schools.

No idea what the Ivy or the other "high" level academic schools would do and all have plenty of money. If they want to move the number would go up a bit.
01-07-2021 08:25 AM
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CajunAmos Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
I thought the NCAA still had the rolling 15K average requirement in place without some kind of extenuating circumstances.
01-07-2021 09:07 AM
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Usajags Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-07-2021 09:07 AM)CajunAmos Wrote:  I thought the NCAA still had the rolling 15K average requirement in place without some kind of extenuating circumstances.

But how you get the 15k number is totally up to the university.
01-07-2021 09:34 AM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-07-2021 08:25 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 05:46 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 05:20 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:40 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:36 PM)Usajags Wrote:  A couple of them have stadiums that only hold 12-13k. Coastal also didn’t have the numbers before moving up because their stadium also wasn’t big enough. Besides, the NCAA attendance requirement is a joke, otherwise the MAC wouldn’t be FBS.

Thats true that they are limited by the stadium size but besides Tarleton none of their averages are close to their capacity. SHSU averaged less than 5k in 2019

So we are confident the NCAA will uphold that rule? I know none of us want to be FCS 2.0 but I’m afraid that’s what’s could happen if we have the G6 G7 or larger.

Like i said in an earlier post, that rule means nothing anymore.

I just hope that since the p5 can gatekeep, the G5 can too.

G5 will have a harder time gatekeeping because of money and attendance. P5 will only consist of well funded universities and G5 will have several schools with less funding and attendance than FCS schools.

If P5 does break expect the better funded G5 schools to get an invite and the weaker left to play with their peers. The same will hold true with G5 and FCS. FCS is down to just a few schools trying to compete in football and a desire to move up. My guess is 10-15 are all that would move if offered under a similar set of standards set today by G5 schools.

No idea what the Ivy or the other "high" level academic schools would do and all have plenty of money. If they want to move the number would go up a bit.

Like who? What FCS schools are you referring to?
01-07-2021 10:25 AM
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Troy_Fan_15 Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-07-2021 08:25 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 05:46 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 05:20 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:40 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:36 PM)Usajags Wrote:  A couple of them have stadiums that only hold 12-13k. Coastal also didn’t have the numbers before moving up because their stadium also wasn’t big enough. Besides, the NCAA attendance requirement is a joke, otherwise the MAC wouldn’t be FBS.

Thats true that they are limited by the stadium size but besides Tarleton none of their averages are close to their capacity. SHSU averaged less than 5k in 2019

So we are confident the NCAA will uphold that rule? I know none of us want to be FCS 2.0 but I’m afraid that’s what’s could happen if we have the G6 G7 or larger.

Like i said in an earlier post, that rule means nothing anymore.

I just hope that since the p5 can gatekeep, the G5 can too.

G5 will have a harder time gatekeeping because of money and attendance. P5 will only consist of well funded universities and G5 will have several schools with less funding and attendance than FCS schools.

If P5 does break expect the better funded G5 schools to get an invite and the weaker left to play with their peers. The same will hold true with G5 and FCS. FCS is down to just a few schools trying to compete in football and a desire to move up. My guess is 10-15 are all that would move if offered under a similar set of standards set today by G5 schools.

No idea what the Ivy or the other "high" level academic schools would do and all have plenty of money. If they want to move the number would go up a bit.

If the P5 break away it’s to get away from the G5. Maybe the AAC, BYU, and Army stand a chance but that’s even slim. Their whole thing is they don’t want to be in a division with the G5 period. They feel they are vastly superior so they have no reason to cooperate with those beneath them.

There are a few FCS programs who could rise if they wanted I guess. James Madison being the most prominent. I’m not sure if NDSU would and leave their conference behind. I doubt Ivy would even though they are loaded with $$$.
01-07-2021 10:58 AM
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Gemofthehills Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-07-2021 10:25 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 08:25 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 05:46 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 05:20 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:40 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  Thats true that they are limited by the stadium size but besides Tarleton none of their averages are close to their capacity. SHSU averaged less than 5k in 2019

So we are confident the NCAA will uphold that rule? I know none of us want to be FCS 2.0 but I’m afraid that’s what’s could happen if we have the G6 G7 or larger.

Like i said in an earlier post, that rule means nothing anymore.

I just hope that since the p5 can gatekeep, the G5 can too.

G5 will have a harder time gatekeeping because of money and attendance. P5 will only consist of well funded universities and G5 will have several schools with less funding and attendance than FCS schools.

If P5 does break expect the better funded G5 schools to get an invite and the weaker left to play with their peers. The same will hold true with G5 and FCS. FCS is down to just a few schools trying to compete in football and a desire to move up. My guess is 10-15 are all that would move if offered under a similar set of standards set today by G5 schools.

No idea what the Ivy or the other "high" level academic schools would do and all have plenty of money. If they want to move the number would go up a bit.

Like who? What FCS schools are you referring to?

Funding and this with them having FCS resources so you would reasonably assume it would go up if these institutions did move up. I wont list them all but her are a few
Delaware
JMU
Cal Davis
NDSU
SDSU
Stony Brook
Albany
East TN
Kennesaw
Of course most of these are towards the bottom and some like JMU (or at least to my understanding) includes the band in athletics. Attendance you can look as easy as me but attendance numbers are so fake it doesnt really matter. Cant remember a game not a UAT or Auburn type school where I thought the number was accurate. This includes FCS and lower FBS.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2021 03:21 PM by Gemofthehills.)
01-07-2021 03:21 PM
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Gemofthehills Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-07-2021 10:58 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  
(01-07-2021 08:25 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 05:46 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 05:20 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  
(01-06-2021 03:40 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  Thats true that they are limited by the stadium size but besides Tarleton none of their averages are close to their capacity. SHSU averaged less than 5k in 2019

So we are confident the NCAA will uphold that rule? I know none of us want to be FCS 2.0 but I’m afraid that’s what’s could happen if we have the G6 G7 or larger.

Like i said in an earlier post, that rule means nothing anymore.

I just hope that since the p5 can gatekeep, the G5 can too.

G5 will have a harder time gatekeeping because of money and attendance. P5 will only consist of well funded universities and G5 will have several schools with less funding and attendance than FCS schools.

If P5 does break expect the better funded G5 schools to get an invite and the weaker left to play with their peers. The same will hold true with G5 and FCS. FCS is down to just a few schools trying to compete in football and a desire to move up. My guess is 10-15 are all that would move if offered under a similar set of standards set today by G5 schools.

No idea what the Ivy or the other "high" level academic schools would do and all have plenty of money. If they want to move the number would go up a bit.

If the P5 break away it’s to get away from the G5. Maybe the AAC, BYU, and Army stand a chance but that’s even slim. Their whole thing is they don’t want to be in a division with the G5 period. They feel they are vastly superior so they have no reason to cooperate with those beneath them.

There are a few FCS programs who could rise if they wanted I guess. James Madison being the most prominent. I’m not sure if NDSU would and leave their conference behind. I doubt Ivy would even though they are loaded with $$$.

Im not DavidSt so I have no idea which ones would want to move up. Just saying if you want to restrict some from moving up and have legal concerns you would need a clear separation.

But if P5 does separate, schools not wanting to move in the past may not consider being below second level as desirable.
01-07-2021 03:26 PM
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