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OT: WAC Football Returning?
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AppinVA Offline
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Post: #21
RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-02-2021 02:59 PM)Usajags Wrote:  With all the unhappy CUSA talk, and the WAC seemingly bring back football. I could see in about 3 years some of those western CUSA teams don’t bail out and head back to the WAC. I say back, because many of them have been there before. That could make FBS WAC football look like this:

Abilene Christian
Lamar
Stephen F Austin
Sam Houston State
NMSU
UTEP
UTSA
Dixie St
Tarleton St
Southern Utah

2025 college football landscape will look very different.

*had to edit and add Southern Utah to the list.
Yeesh.
01-02-2021 03:42 PM
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Usajags Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
Never said it would be pretty.
01-02-2021 03:54 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #23
RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
The Southland splitting actually could have an impact on the SBC. A WAC with the Texas Southland schools might be attractive to UTA, over a Sun Belt with only Texas State.

I don't think any impact it has on us would be notable for most of our membership, but this is going to be interesting to watch.
01-02-2021 04:03 PM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-02-2021 03:42 PM)AppinVA Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 02:59 PM)Usajags Wrote:  With all the unhappy CUSA talk, and the WAC seemingly bring back football. I could see in about 3 years some of those western CUSA teams don’t bail out and head back to the WAC. I say back, because many of them have been there before. That could make FBS WAC football look like this:

Abilene Christian
Lamar
Stephen F Austin
Sam Houston State
NMSU
UTEP
UTSA
Dixie St
Tarleton St
Southern Utah

2025 college football landscape will look very different.

*had to edit and add Southern Utah to the list.
Yeesh.

I really hope that would be a hard no from TXST. I imagine the other G5s would feel the same. Why would we want to legitimize those schools and add further competition for recruits?
01-02-2021 04:11 PM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-02-2021 04:03 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  The Southland splitting actually could have an impact on the SBC. A WAC with the Texas Southland schools might be attractive to UTA, over a Sun Belt with only Texas State.

I don't think any impact it has on us would be notable for most of our membership, but this is going to be interesting to watch.

. If this FBS WAC thing ends up happening then it could add recruiting competition to the western SBC schools. Especially for us.
01-02-2021 04:14 PM
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Usajags Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-02-2021 04:11 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 03:42 PM)AppinVA Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 02:59 PM)Usajags Wrote:  With all the unhappy CUSA talk, and the WAC seemingly bring back football. I could see in about 3 years some of those western CUSA teams don’t bail out and head back to the WAC. I say back, because many of them have been there before. That could make FBS WAC football look like this:

Abilene Christian
Lamar
Stephen F Austin
Sam Houston State
NMSU
UTEP
UTSA
Dixie St
Tarleton St
Southern Utah

2025 college football landscape will look very different.

*had to edit and add Southern Utah to the list.
Yeesh.

I really hope that would be a hard no from TXST. I imagine the other G5s would feel the same. Why would we want to legitimize those schools and add further competition for recruits?

May happen, with or without y’all joining them. The problem is it may push the P5 even more towards separating from the rest of us G5/6.
01-02-2021 04:26 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #27
RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
Not WAC Related, but it appears UCA is leaving the Southland as well. They have talked about joining the Atlantic Sun, and just stashing football somewhere...
01-02-2021 04:30 PM
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Usajags Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-02-2021 04:30 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Not WAC Related, but it appears UCA is leaving the Southland as well. They have talked about joining the Atlantic Sun, and just stashing football somewhere...

They could put football in the MVFC.

Southland is getting picked apart.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2021 04:58 PM by Usajags.)
01-02-2021 04:54 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-02-2021 04:54 PM)Usajags Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 04:30 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Not WAC Related, but it appears UCA is leaving the Southland as well. They have talked about joining the Atlantic Sun, and just stashing football somewhere...

They could put football in the MVFC.

Southland is getting picked apart.

Southland has been in trouble for years because much like CUSA, they made a lot of mistakes in 2013 realignment. It created a league of haves and have nots. They survived for a few years but Covid was the last straw. The Have Nots have the numbers and voted to cancel Football this year leaving UCA and the 4 big Texas Schools on an island, all willing to play, but forced to decide between playing on and ignoring the FCS Playoffs, or agreeding to stop.

UCA and SFA Both decided to just play on in the fall as independents and basically left the rest of the league looking bad. By November the UCA to A-Sun rumors started and SFA voted in December to join the WAC if they invited. The moves were so poorly received in the Southland that the league somehow left both schools off their Early Signing period press released, only going back and added them reluctantly a couple weeks later.

As for what UCA Will do, Eastern Kentucky is also rumored to join the A-Sun (UCA Played them twice in football this year) I think the A-Sun has designs on starting Football as well...
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2021 05:30 PM by chiefsfan.)
01-02-2021 05:28 PM
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Warhawkman Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
I don't get what the others were supposed to do. The playoffs are in the spring now, your not going to have a fall season then sit around or waste the money on two full seasons. Especially with no crowds and minimum opportunity for money games.

It seems like the FCS leagues are um not learning from some of the mistakes made at the FBS level.

The WAC itself has done this massive travel thing in the past and it didn't pay off so we'll see. At least the Texas schools are going together. UCA moving to the A-Sun would kind of be dumb however. Basically would be playing in the SBC east as a western school with less revenue.

SLC is now going to be the Louisiana and schools and Texas teams in big markets which will be interesting. I'm assuming corpus will be the big loser in all of this with maybe those folks who wanted to see a UTA football team being the big winners
01-03-2021 10:19 AM
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Gemofthehills Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
Have no inside knowledge, but the WAC/A-Sun deals appears to be trying to set up a move to FBS. Most of the ones involved have been unsuccessful in receiving a FBS conference invite and are looking for a group willing to challenge the rule. Liberty's move shows the NCAA feel the rule will not survive a courtroom.

If USAJags group does get together, it will be competitive with the MAC, CUSA and SBC within a few years. The A-Sun group would also be competitive at about the speed of the recent FCS move ups but a little behind the WAC group. If the A-Sun group can add Liberty the conference would be competitive quicker. At this point it appears Liberty has already passed this group and would have to stay independent or waiting for an invite to the American.

If either group can add NDSU, Montana, JMU, Delaware, Stony Brook or other high level funded FCS teams the competitiveness could be immediate. Anyways if any comes to be, the competition will be there and G5 will look a lot like I-AA football of years past.
01-03-2021 11:03 AM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
Lol
01-03-2021 11:11 AM
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BamaCajun Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-03-2021 11:03 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  Have no inside knowledge, but the WAC/A-Sun deals appears to be trying to set up a move to FBS. Most of the ones involved have been unsuccessful in receiving a FBS conference invite and are looking for a group willing to challenge the rule. Liberty's move shows the NCAA feel the rule will not survive a courtroom.

If USAJags group does get together, it will be competitive with the MAC, CUSA and SBC within a few years. The A-Sun group would also be competitive at about the speed of the recent FCS move ups but a little behind the WAC group. If the A-Sun group can add Liberty the conference would be competitive quicker. At this point it appears Liberty has already passed this group and would have to stay independent or waiting for an invite to the American.

If either group can add NDSU, Montana, JMU, Delaware, Stony Brook or other high level funded FCS teams the competitiveness could be immediate. Anyways if any comes to be, the competition will be there and G5 will look a lot like I-AA football of years past.

Isn't it a little early on Sunday morning to be doing crack?
01-03-2021 11:25 AM
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Gemofthehills Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-03-2021 11:11 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Lol

That's the same response App and Coastal got a few years back on being FBS competitive.
01-03-2021 11:26 AM
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Usajags Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
Here’s the thing, P5/G5/FCS are all seen as different levels of play/budget/interest. Within FBS you have the schools with $70mil+ budgets and 80k seat stadiums, then you also have the schools with $20mil budgets and 25k stadiums. But FCS has the same disparity. Schools with 15k stadiums and $20mil budgets and schools with 5k seat stadiums and $10mil budgets.

As much as we are trying to separate ourselves from the bottom of G5 and compete with the P5, the top of FCS isn’t trying to get to be Alabama or Ohio St, they are just trying to get to Coastal and ULL and separate themselves from the bottom of FCS. Ultimately everyone is just trying to take one step up.

Liberty has broken the glass ceiling and shown the way, if you want to be FBS, you just do it, the NCAA has proven they have no teeth. If a team or group of teams(conference) meet the FBS requirements, they can’t keep them out of being FBS. The NCAA also doesn’t control the CFP, so it would be up to the new conference to work themselves into that deal for a piece of the pie.
01-03-2021 11:48 AM
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chiefsfan Offline
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RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-03-2021 10:19 AM)Warhawkman Wrote:  I don't get what the others were supposed to do. The playoffs are in the spring now, your not going to have a fall season then sit around or waste the money on two full seasons. Especially with no crowds and minimum opportunity for money games.

It seems like the FCS leagues are um not learning from some of the mistakes made at the FBS level.

The WAC itself has done this massive travel thing in the past and it didn't pay off so we'll see. At least the Texas schools are going together. UCA moving to the A-Sun would kind of be dumb however. Basically would be playing in the SBC east as a western school with less revenue.

SLC is now going to be the Louisiana and schools and Texas teams in big markets which will be interesting. I'm assuming corpus will be the big loser in all of this with maybe those folks who wanted to see a UTA football team being the big winners

It wasn't really ever a question. There was in August a wide belief that there was no way to make an effective Spring season happen, and then ask players to turn around to play the next fall on schedule. I know UCA's AD was very public that he didn't think it was fair to ask his players to play 2 seasons in one calendar year. The 5 schools who wanted to play had the money and regional partnerships to do the required Covid testing, and all were more comfortable playing in the Fall rather than the Spring. The other schools in the league don't have the finances to pull all of that.

Once the season was cancelled, UCA and SFA realized that between SBC and CUSA schools in the area plus the scattering of D2 and FCS schools willing to play that they could salvage a 9 or 10 game season and not be forced to ask their players to play 2 seasons in the same year.

As for the UCA to ASun thing. Many forget this, but when UCA was in D2 they played in the Gulf South conference with schools from Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Mississippi, and Arkansas. Their fan base and alums are used to playing schools from those states, and identify more with those schools than the TX and LA schools. Its no different than why an Arkansas State isn't overly interested in playing a bunch of Texas Schools either. The state identifies more with the Southeast than the Southwest in many areas.
01-03-2021 12:15 PM
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Warhawkman Offline
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Post: #37
RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-03-2021 12:15 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 10:19 AM)Warhawkman Wrote:  I don't get what the others were supposed to do. The playoffs are in the spring now, your not going to have a fall season then sit around or waste the money on two full seasons. Especially with no crowds and minimum opportunity for money games.

It seems like the FCS leagues are um not learning from some of the mistakes made at the FBS level.

The WAC itself has done this massive travel thing in the past and it didn't pay off so we'll see. At least the Texas schools are going together. UCA moving to the A-Sun would kind of be dumb however. Basically would be playing in the SBC east as a western school with less revenue.

SLC is now going to be the Louisiana and schools and Texas teams in big markets which will be interesting. I'm assuming corpus will be the big loser in all of this with maybe those folks who wanted to see a UTA football team being the big winners

It wasn't really ever a question. There was in August a wide belief that there was no way to make an effective Spring season happen, and then ask players to turn around to play the next fall on schedule. I know UCA's AD was very public that he didn't think it was fair to ask his players to play 2 seasons in one calendar year. The 5 schools who wanted to play had the money and regional partnerships to do the required Covid testing, and all were more comfortable playing in the Fall rather than the Spring. The other schools in the league don't have the finances to pull all of that.

Once the season was cancelled, UCA and SFA realized that between SBC and CUSA schools in the area plus the scattering of D2 and FCS schools willing to play that they could salvage a 9 or 10 game season and not be forced to ask their players to play 2 seasons in the same year.

As for the UCA to ASun thing. Many forget this, but when UCA was in D2 they played in the Gulf South conference with schools from Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Mississippi, and Arkansas. Their fan base and alums are used to playing schools from those states, and identify more with those schools than the TX and LA schools. Its no different than why an Arkansas State isn't overly interested in playing a bunch of Texas Schools either. The state identifies more with the Southeast than the Southwest in many areas.

Interesting about UCA didn't know that.

In terms of fall vs spring Sam and Lamar are playing in the spring. Three spring was the pretty obvious choice once the entire FCS decided to move to it. It's dumb imo to forefit your chance at the playoffs to play West Texas a and m like SFA did imo.

I'd be pissed if ULM was FCS and we decided to play in the fall and schedule Arkansas tech and Louisiana college for 10 games
01-03-2021 01:24 PM
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Warhawkman Offline
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Post: #38
RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-03-2021 11:26 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  
(01-03-2021 11:11 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Lol

That's the same response App and Coastal got a few years back on being FBS competitive.

There's a bit of a difference between even coastal and these teams.

Out of all of them only SHSU has actually been good at Football and only SFA has invested in sports.

3 of the 4 Texas schools that are leaving have a combined one playoff appearencre in 10 years.

App was winning titles and coastal was winning championships its a bit of a difference.

The schools they are joining are no different SUU has been solid on occasion but the rest are D2 move ups. None of them have a stadium large enough to meet the requirements at the moment either. It seems weird to go from a conference that was a multi bid league to attempting to go FBS with the teams from that conference that had no success and some D2 schools. It's a wired move overall especially considering the Louisiana schools have had more success as a whole then the Texas schools.
01-03-2021 01:28 PM
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Bobcat87 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-02-2021 02:59 PM)Usajags Wrote:  With all the unhappy CUSA talk, and the WAC seemingly bring back football. I could see in about 3 years some of those western CUSA teams don’t bail out and head back to the WAC. I say back, because many of them have been there before. That could make FBS WAC football look like this:

Abilene Christian
Lamar
Stephen F Austin
Sam Houston State
NMSU
UTEP
UTSA
Dixie St
Tarleton St
Southern Utah

2025 college football landscape will look very different.

*had to edit and add Southern Utah to the list.

Why would UTEP and UTSA jump to this “proposed” WAC lineup of yours?

As bad as CUSA may be, it’s still better than the lineup you’ve proposed . . . Be like jumping from the frying pan into the fire, just don’t see either of those schools making such a patently stupid move.
01-04-2021 12:05 PM
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Usajags Offline
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Post: #40
RE: OT: WAC Football Returning?
(01-04-2021 12:05 PM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  
(01-02-2021 02:59 PM)Usajags Wrote:  With all the unhappy CUSA talk, and the WAC seemingly bring back football. I could see in about 3 years some of those western CUSA teams don’t bail out and head back to the WAC. I say back, because many of them have been there before. That could make FBS WAC football look like this:

Abilene Christian
Lamar
Stephen F Austin
Sam Houston State
NMSU
UTEP
UTSA
Dixie St
Tarleton St
Southern Utah

2025 college football landscape will look very different.

*had to edit and add Southern Utah to the list.

Why would UTEP and UTSA jump to this “proposed” WAC lineup of yours?

As bad as CUSA may be, it’s still better than the lineup you’ve proposed . . . Be like jumping from the frying pan into the fire, just don’t see either of those schools making such a patently stupid move.

Because I said so, that’s why.

Seriously, I know nothing of these schools except location and how big their stadiums are. It was just an easy group to put together to make a western conference so CUSA can split into two.
01-04-2021 02:00 PM
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