(12-08-2020 10:18 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  oh weird, a part of the world that regularly comes into contact with a diverse set of coronaviruses that likely provides resilience or immunity and has dealt with SARS in recent history has a lower mortality rate.

Show your work.

(12-08-2020 10:21 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(12-08-2020 09:35 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  

(12-08-2020 09:06 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  But muh way of life!

This is a really sad, tone-deaf take, especially for those workers and business owners who have or are on the precipice of losing everything. My brother is a business owner in Charlottesville that may not make it through the new year. I personally cover the rent of one of my tenants, a salon owner, because she can't afford it because Virginia has made her business unable to turn a profit due to capacity issues.

I feel for the families that have lost family members. I don't condone the reopening of society at the expense of other people. I condone it because I don't think the mitigation efforts we are currently pursuing have a substantial effect. Counties, States and cities that have rigorously pursued lockdowns and other NPIs have not performed any better than others. I think that is unbelievably telling.

When you say “cover one of my tenant’s rent”, do you mean you pay yourself for the rent you would have received otherwise? I understand it’s hard on you not being able to earn that rent from your tenant, and you are most definitely a good guy for doing whatever you’re doing to keep them afloat. I assume allowing them to continue rent-free for now?

I hung with you and your brother some years ago in Chapel Hill & I certainly wouldn’t want him to go out of business or suffer. I truly mean that! But I’m sorry, “way of life” is a very broad term that could apply to attending large church services indoors without masks/distancing. I’m sure there are many who advocate for that when they say “way of life”, to which I reply boohoo. My reply was specifically for $5kDS, not an indictment on everyone who wants what he wants. His argument is unconvincing.

I would also say that the term “lockdown” is hyperbole to the max (as it pertains to VA at least). I have always been able to go pretty much anywhere I want since March. No one has told me to turn around and go home ever. I understand that’s not what you mean by lockdown, but that’s what lockdown means.

Yes, i cover her rent personally even though I have a mortgage to pay because its the right thing to do and not her fault. This has been going on since March and is not an insignificant amount of money. You use the term lockdown as if it is no big deal. These additional restrictions are literally killing people's ability to provide for themselves and their families.

(12-08-2020 10:21 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(12-08-2020 09:35 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  

(12-08-2020 09:06 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  But muh way of life!

This is a really sad, tone-deaf take, especially for those workers and business owners who have or are on the precipice of losing everything. My brother is a business owner in Charlottesville that may not make it through the new year. I personally cover the rent of one of my tenants, a salon owner, because she can't afford it because Virginia has made her business unable to turn a profit due to capacity issues.

I feel for the families that have lost family members. I don't condone the reopening of society at the expense of other people. I condone it because I don't think the mitigation efforts we are currently pursuing have a substantial effect. Counties, States and cities that have rigorously pursued lockdowns and other NPIs have not performed any better than others. I think that is unbelievably telling.

When you say “cover one of my tenant’s rent”, do you mean you pay yourself for the rent you would have received otherwise? I understand it’s hard on you not being able to earn that rent from your tenant, and you are most definitely a good guy for doing whatever you’re doing to keep them afloat. I assume allowing them to continue rent-free for now?

I hung with you and your brother some years ago in Chapel Hill & I certainly wouldn’t want him to go out of business or suffer. I truly mean that! But I’m sorry, “way of life” is a very broad term that could apply to attending large church services indoors without masks/distancing. I’m sure there are many who advocate for that when they say “way of life”, to which I reply boohoo. My reply was specifically for $5kDS, not an indictment on everyone who wants what he wants. His argument is unconvincing.

I would also say that the term “lockdown” is hyperbole to the max (as it pertains to VA at least). I have always been able to go pretty much anywhere I want since March. No one has told me to turn around and go home ever. I understand that’s not what you mean by lockdown, but that’s what lockdown means.

Yes, i cover her rent personally even though I have a mortgage to pay because its the right thing to do and not her fault. This has been going on since March and is not an insignificant amount of money. You use the term lockdown as if it is no big deal. These additional restrictions are literally killing people's ability to provide for themselves and their families.

(12-08-2020 10:25 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  

(12-08-2020 10:18 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  oh weird, a part of the world that regularly comes into contact with a diverse set of coronaviruses that likely provides resilience or immunity and has dealt with SARS in recent history has a lower mortality rate.

Show your work.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-rese...sars-cov-2

I get that me mocking $5kDS came across poorly, but again, I was mocking the broad “way of life” comment. I feel differently about businesses struggling than “way of life” broad strokes with no details. There’s a difference in the details (for me).

I think a lockdown would be a VERY big deal. I have not experienced a lockdown in VA. I have experienced building occupancy restrictions.

Again, I appreciate that you’re financially able to maintain your real estate investment & allow that business to remain. You’re a good guy for doing that because you definitely don’t have to.

(12-08-2020 10:31 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  

(12-08-2020 10:25 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  

(12-08-2020 10:18 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  oh weird, a part of the world that regularly comes into contact with a diverse set of coronaviruses that likely provides resilience or immunity and has dealt with SARS in recent history has a lower mortality rate.

Show your work.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-rese...sars-cov-2

I like how you said "likely" and your link says "may." Let's look at the abstract for the study that this link is for:

Quote:Many unknowns exist about human immune responses to the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) virus. SARS-CoV-2-reactive CD4+ T cells have been reported in unexposed individuals, suggesting preexisting cross-reactive T cell memory in 20 to 50% of people. However, the source of those T cells has been speculative.

So....you basically have nothing. Cool! Love it when your moved goal posts don't even make sense.

(12-08-2020 10:39 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  I get that me mocking $5kDS came across poorly, but again, I was mocking the broad “way of life” comment. I feel differently about businesses struggling than “way of life” broad strokes with no details. There’s a difference in the details (for me).

I think a lockdown would be a VERY big deal. I have not experienced a lockdown in VA. I have experienced building occupancy restrictions.

Again, I appreciate that you’re financially able to maintain your real estate investment & allow that business to remain. You’re a good guy for doing that because you definitely don’t have to.

Gotcha, Cent understood what i said...but he good guy. I'm bad guy. What didnt you understand. Too Broad for you? Do i need to spell it out.....that this is significantly affecting way of life for small business owners? While big box stores and amazon dominant the economy. That health dept. Officials arent gonna shut down a walmart, but damn if the small local pet store doesnt ollow all the rules... or restaurant owners who have to be below 50% capacity , maybe even less, and are only staying open to provide for their employees and hope to weather the storm without having to close... all the while... the owner is barely breaking even. Do you get it now?

(12-08-2020 11:07 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  

(12-08-2020 10:31 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  

(12-08-2020 10:25 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  

(12-08-2020 10:18 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  oh weird, a part of the world that regularly comes into contact with a diverse set of coronaviruses that likely provides resilience or immunity and has dealt with SARS in recent history has a lower mortality rate.

Show your work.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-rese...sars-cov-2

I like how you said "likely" and your link says "may." Let's look at the abstract for the study that this link is for:

Quote:Many unknowns exist about human immune responses to the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) virus. SARS-CoV-2-reactive CD4+ T cells have been reported in unexposed individuals, suggesting preexisting cross-reactive T cell memory in 20 to 50% of people. However, the source of those T cells has been speculative.

So....you basically have nothing. Cool! Love it when your moved goal posts don't even make sense.

At least six studies have reported T cell reactivity against SARS-CoV-2 in 20% to 50% of people with no known exposure to the virus.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...7420306103

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/...1.abstract

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/...20062349v2
"We also detected low levels of SARS-CoV-2-reactive T-cells in 20% of the healthy controls, not previously exposed to SARS-CoV-2 and indicative of cross-reactivity due to infection with common cold coronaviruses."

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/...9.174888v1

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?...id=3641939

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-0389-z

Will anything convince you of anything? Do you find this interesting?

It’s a very rough time to own a small business. It does seem like some of the state mandates in VA have been logically inconsistent at times. Hundreds can be in Target, but the small business much less. I agree that that isn’t fair. But it’s not one or the other for me. False dichotomy: there are more than two choices (all restrictions bad vs all restrictions good). Clearly, some business models are just toast in this environment. Restrictions or not, people are making choices based on health & certain industries are going to need to pivot to stay open. I really do hope for the best for small business owners. I think occupancy restrictions that are more individually appropriate in VA could help that. But I’m not in charge. I’d rather we have what we have now than move to a “no restrictions” free-for-all. I would end up spending LESS at small businesses if it were a free-for-all.

I think that there needs to be occupancy restrictions to a degree. They should be thoughtful & based in scientific study that isn’t funded by partisans. It should err on the sides of public health safety AND being as minimally restrictive as possible. I don’t think I should be telling anyone what to do, but when some people can harm others through their choices, that’s usually where the line starts to form (for me) between individual liberty & necessary regulation.

Cent’s earlier comment about mask studies only happening in controlled settings makes me question his line of thinking. He is a smarter guy than me and has clearly read up on a lot of this virus science. BUT, painting mask studies as invalid has me troubled.

(12-08-2020 12:12 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  It’s a very rough time to own a small business. It does seem like some of the state mandates in VA have been logically inconsistent at times. Hundreds can be in Target, but the small business much less. I agree that that isn’t fair. But it’s not one or the other for me. False dichotomy: there are more than two choices (all restrictions bad vs all restrictions good). Clearly, some business models are just toast in this environment. Restrictions or not, people are making choices based on health & certain industries are going to need to pivot to stay open. I really do hope for the best for small business owners. I think occupancy restrictions that are more individually appropriate in VA could help that. But I’m not in charge. I’d rather we have what we have now than move to a “no restrictions” free-for-all. I would end up spending LESS at small businesses if it were a free-for-all.

I think that there needs to be occupancy restrictions to a degree. They should be thoughtful & based in scientific study that isn’t funded by partisans. It should err on the sides of public health safety AND being as minimally restrictive as possible. I don’t think I should be telling anyone what to do, but when some people can harm others through their choices, that’s usually where the line starts to form (for me) between individual liberty & necessary regulation.

Cent’s earlier comment about mask studies only happening in controlled settings makes me question his line of thinking. He is a smarter guy than me and has clearly read up on a lot of this virus science. BUT, painting mask studies as invalid has me troubled.

I appreciate and respect this response. Thank you. From my reading of studies and results on contact tracing... it is driven by spread through close, sustained contact. Like every other virus. It does not seem to spread because i walked through a grocery store (minus exception of just getting absolutely walloped with direct sneeze to my face...etc.) The reason people question facemasks are because its where the data is leading us. Read the study on US Marines (one group with strict rules) other with no control measures. I can agree with distancing and protecting our vulnerable. Most of us who dont like facemasks still wear them when going shopping but i am not wearing it outdoors when i am not near anyone or in my car with no one else, etc...

Yeah dude, masks outside when the air is moving around seems dumb to me too. I wear one outside when close to others, but otherwise, I don’t see the need. I think the “wearing a mask in a car” smells of people seeing others doing that and getting worked up about it. My POV on that is people should just mind their own business since it doesn’t affect them. There’s some very valid business reasons to do that for some people. I’ve not heard any experts or government leaders clamoring for people to mask up while driving. A little bit of a straw man that I hear people reference somewhat frequently.

I agree with you. Doesn't affect me but wasnt the crux of my argument to make that strawman.

Please dont let that point distract you from the global data and studies coming out that are either not being reported or obscured Denmark, Marines, Wuhan testing and tracing of nearly 10,000,000 people.

What’s the situation with these 3 or however many vaccines now. Will we need boosters every 3 months? What’s the story there? I’m so ready to stop talking about a virus.

My views on vaccines will probably lead to blood, gore, and censorship by big tech. Anywho. I am not going to touch this vaccine.... people will be the experiment on this one. First use of this mRNA vac technology. No clue what long term affects their could be. This is a corona family virus.... all other types of coronas and they were never successful.... the common cold is a type of corona.... and we always been told...no cure for the common cold... So. Please dont yell or attack me :) i dont push this down peoples throats but you asked so i share and hope people do their own research. Learntherisk.org. interesting item on that link....the founder was a female employee of Merck who became a whistleblower on big pharma cover -ups... she was just found dead yesterday.. no mainstream media outlet is covering the story. Now her death could be coincidence/accidental... but she was warning on her social media of her potential death and people breaking into house knowing it was big pharma goons. Her name Brandy Vaughan.

Lastly, after vaccinations... we will likely hear of a mutated more aggressive strain of covid19 thats worse.... that wont necessarilly be the truth. But the immune systems grenade like effect on the body if one were to encounter covid 19 in the wild. It will attack covid amazingly but so hard that it has potential to damage your organs etc... but it will be called a new aggressive strain maybe even called covid 21. This is called ADE... and the main reason even pro vax researchers are scared of this covid one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody...nhancement .... this phenomenon is legit... it is what went wrong with dengue vaccines and their are concerns with other strains of coronaviruses and the antibodies become a trojan horse.... anywho this is what i have read in other medical journals and vaccine studies.

Since 1986 -our Government passed a law providing vaccine manafacturers with zero liability. Zero.

(12-08-2020 12:12 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Cent’s earlier comment about mask studies only happening in controlled settings makes me question his line of thinking. He is a smarter guy than me and has clearly read up on a lot of this virus science. BUT, painting mask studies as invalid has me troubled.

I juts don't see any real data in the US that suggests mask wearing works (particularly in the US). I could be blind to something, but the cities and counties with the strictest laws and restrictions on NPIs are not faring super well.

https://twitter.com/yinonw/status/133690...15488?s=20

This is a good thread on how the earliest lockdown/mask mandates have gone. Its not great.

To muddy the waters further a study was released today on cross-reactivity and how not just one coronavirus may have cross-reactive immunity, but maybe it is from a “lifelong exposure to a diverse and heterogenous array of various random antigens”

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/...8.415703v1

I don't think this disqualifies my earlier statement on citizens in "a part of the world that regularly comes into contact with a diverse set of coronaviruses that likely provides resilience or immunity."

To the researchers, this was a confusing conclusion - here is one of them on twitter

https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/stat...57217?s=20

This Indian scientist - a doctor and editor of the blood cancer journal with a very good reputation, seems to the x-reactivity is a significant factor.

https://twitter.com/VincentRK/status/129...3343326209

Given that many countries have tried the exact same NPIs with a HIGH variability of success, and some with high levels of failure seems to indicate another factor is driving mortality and people group immunity in different countries. Im not sure we have an definitive answer, but this is as close as I think we've gotten.

(12-08-2020 09:02 AM)5000DOLLARBILL Wrote:  

(12-08-2020 08:43 AM)Dukester Wrote:  Stupid top doctors, and scientists. It's hilarious doctors, technicians, surgeons wear masks at hospitals thinking they do anything. Plus Covid's not worse than the flu, and won't be that big a deal after Nov 3. For 5 administrations Fauci has been the pride of our scientists, now 25% want him fired, and some much worse. Pretty much every country in the world advocates masks, but there are about 20% in the US who know better. It certainly is a strange coincidence the people I see in public, and those I have met in person that don't see the value of the mask seem to be getting the virus extremely higher rate than others. They will say "care about the vulnerable". The way you care about the vulnerable is to wear a mast so it's not spread as much around the population.

No matter how many times you ask people not to discuss non sports items, they just have to - so what the heck, when in Rome.

America is being made more great every day. Yeah right.

Logical fallacy appeal to authority. All I am asking you to do is read actual studies on your own. And not just a site saying do it! Do I wear a mask when its supposedly required. Yes. Do i make a stink. Nope. Science tells me this is just something for the masses to think our political leaders are doing something in a situation that they have very little influence. Yes. Distancing works and shitdown lockdowns limit exposure and spread....but it will just spread once lockdown is over. Its a VIRUS! How long can we ruin some people's way of life? Or cause other death a d destruction?

To add: I trust data coming out of the private business sector and from news outlets produced outside of our Country more than I trust what is see coming from the USA. Some of the US insurance carriers (those footing the bill) are putting out a lot data backed by statistics. Some very small countries have been pretty successful with lockdowns but We the People along with our Constitution won't ever agree with a Martial Law type lockdown.

Dear Dr. Fauci. I don't want your opinion I want you to provide us with science, facts and data. If I want opinion I'll tune into CNN or Fox. If I want a whole lot of BS, I'll listen to the folks in Congress. If I want to hear mumbo-Jumbo statements I'll listen to my Governor.

Now onto sports....I've heard there may be some talk about the NCAA slow rolling the conference tournaments and the NCAAT first round starting Mid March with more games played an single locations. Not fact to this at all just hear-say from someone with an ear to the inside.

I heard it was going to be in one location, at least at the Sweet 16 level.

(12-10-2020 02:53 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  I heard it was going to be in one location, at least at the Sweet 16 level.

Probably a good plan. We are all gonna need the tournament come March!