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Rating the AAC in men's basketball
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CoastalJuan Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
(12-10-2020 07:05 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  If ECU doesn't beat North Florida, it should be kicked out of the league by 8:30 tomorrow morning. It's embarrassing what a horrendous OOC schedule you guys have had over the last number of years and then unceremoniously lose to the flotsam and jetsam of FCS or Division II or whatever else those kinds of schools are called these days.

Believe me. Nothing would make me happier than to beat you guys after going 0-5 OOC. Sadly, it is not to be.

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12-10-2020 07:25 PM
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Foreverandever Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
(12-10-2020 07:24 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(12-10-2020 07:05 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  If ECU doesn't beat North Florida, it should be kicked out of the league by 8:30 tomorrow morning. It's embarrassing what a horrendous OOC schedule you guys have had over the last number of years and then unceremoniously lose to the flotsam and jetsam of FCS or Division II or whatever else those kinds of schools are called these days.

The criticism is justified IMO. We should have lost today. It was not an impressive win. Game was tied with a minute to go. Team looked lethargic. I'm sure Dooley was not pleased with some of the bad shots today.

Winning is hard and it has to become a habit. That is a muscle badly atrophied at ECU. Gardner has now had two questionable games and both have been wins. More baby steps. You have two winnable games left ooc just handle business.
12-10-2020 07:39 PM
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CoastalJuan Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
(12-10-2020 07:39 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(12-10-2020 07:24 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(12-10-2020 07:05 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  If ECU doesn't beat North Florida, it should be kicked out of the league by 8:30 tomorrow morning. It's embarrassing what a horrendous OOC schedule you guys have had over the last number of years and then unceremoniously lose to the flotsam and jetsam of FCS or Division II or whatever else those kinds of schools are called these days.

The criticism is justified IMO. We should have lost today. It was not an impressive win. Game was tied with a minute to go. Team looked lethargic. I'm sure Dooley was not pleased with some of the bad shots today.

Winning is hard and it has to become a habit. That is a muscle badly atrophied at ECU. Gardner has now had two questionable games and both have been wins. More baby steps. You have two winnable games left ooc just handle business.

We'll lose at ODU if that's happening.
12-10-2020 08:03 PM
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Chappy Offline
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RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
Our schedule is definitely setting us up to enter conference play soft.

UNF has already played Miami, Florida State and NC State and so we were not the most physical team they’ve played and it showed.

But on the right side, we haven’t lost yet despite trailing by 9 in 4 out of 5 games.
12-10-2020 08:28 PM
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Foreverandever Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
(12-10-2020 08:03 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  
(12-10-2020 07:39 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(12-10-2020 07:24 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(12-10-2020 07:05 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  If ECU doesn't beat North Florida, it should be kicked out of the league by 8:30 tomorrow morning. It's embarrassing what a horrendous OOC schedule you guys have had over the last number of years and then unceremoniously lose to the flotsam and jetsam of FCS or Division II or whatever else those kinds of schools are called these days.

The criticism is justified IMO. We should have lost today. It was not an impressive win. Game was tied with a minute to go. Team looked lethargic. I'm sure Dooley was not pleased with some of the bad shots today.

Winning is hard and it has to become a habit. That is a muscle badly atrophied at ECU. Gardner has now had two questionable games and both have been wins. More baby steps. You have two winnable games left ooc just handle business.

We'll lose at ODU if that's happening.

It looks like ODU is playing the night before?

However I am not so sure. Gardner will start playing better, he is still pushing a bit from usually being the one who has to make it all work. If he can relax and let the other players take up their spots the game will flow much better to him. Even with him not playing well I think you can get that win.
12-10-2020 08:28 PM
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CoastalJuan Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
(12-10-2020 08:28 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(12-10-2020 08:03 PM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  
(12-10-2020 07:39 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(12-10-2020 07:24 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(12-10-2020 07:05 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  If ECU doesn't beat North Florida, it should be kicked out of the league by 8:30 tomorrow morning. It's embarrassing what a horrendous OOC schedule you guys have had over the last number of years and then unceremoniously lose to the flotsam and jetsam of FCS or Division II or whatever else those kinds of schools are called these days.

The criticism is justified IMO. We should have lost today. It was not an impressive win. Game was tied with a minute to go. Team looked lethargic. I'm sure Dooley was not pleased with some of the bad shots today.

Winning is hard and it has to become a habit. That is a muscle badly atrophied at ECU. Gardner has now had two questionable games and both have been wins. More baby steps. You have two winnable games left ooc just handle business.

We'll lose at ODU if that's happening.

It looks like ODU is playing the night before?

However I am not so sure. Gardner will start playing better, he is still pushing a bit from usually being the one who has to make it all work. If he can relax and let the other players take up their spots the game will flow much better to him. Even with him not playing well I think you can get that win.

Scratch that. I think it was on our original scrapped schedule, and it popped back up on our ESPN slate for whatever reason.
12-10-2020 08:30 PM
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mustangxc Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
1. Houston





2. SMU
3. Cincinnati
4. UCF

5. Tulsa
6. Wichita State
7. Memphis

8. ECU
9. Tulane
10. USF

Wildcard: Temple
12-13-2020 04:29 PM
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The Grape King Offline
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RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
If you'd asked me a few weeks ago, I would've said I'd be shocked if Temple won more than 3 or 4 games in the conference. I like the talent coming in, but we're returning literally nothing besides a few very mediocre frontcourt players. But, after seeing the quality of some of these groups this year, and hearing from folks inside practice that this should be the best 3-point shooting Temple team in years, I wouldn't be surprised to finish outside the bottom 2 or 3. Having only one game under their belt before AAC play is gonna hurt though.

So many new faces this year, a second year of McKie's style with a backcourt of only his recruits, and I'm so excited to see this year's team despite the growing pains we're gonna push through the next two years at least.
12-13-2020 05:24 PM
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Foreverandever Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
(12-13-2020 05:24 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  If you'd asked me a few weeks ago, I would've said I'd be shocked if Temple won more than 3 or 4 games in the conference. I like the talent coming in, but we're returning literally nothing besides a few very mediocre frontcourt players. But, after seeing the quality of some of these groups this year, and hearing from folks inside practice that this should be the best 3-point shooting Temple team in years, I wouldn't be surprised to finish outside the bottom 2 or 3. Having only one game under their belt before AAC play is gonna hurt though.

So many new faces this year, a second year of McKie's style with a backcourt of only his recruits, and I'm so excited to see this year's team despite the growing pains we're gonna push through the next two years at least.

If these transfer rules pass, pushing back the Big Five and having essentially the ability to reschedule because it's an hour round trip for the away team and still make a decent ooc from it will look like a genius move between the elgibility and injuries coming back. Temple intrigues me, it will be a completely different team this year, last year was very much still the previous staff's group.
12-13-2020 05:29 PM
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The Grape King Offline
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RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
(12-13-2020 05:29 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(12-13-2020 05:24 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  If you'd asked me a few weeks ago, I would've said I'd be shocked if Temple won more than 3 or 4 games in the conference. I like the talent coming in, but we're returning literally nothing besides a few very mediocre frontcourt players. But, after seeing the quality of some of these groups this year, and hearing from folks inside practice that this should be the best 3-point shooting Temple team in years, I wouldn't be surprised to finish outside the bottom 2 or 3. Having only one game under their belt before AAC play is gonna hurt though.

So many new faces this year, a second year of McKie's style with a backcourt of only his recruits, and I'm so excited to see this year's team despite the growing pains we're gonna push through the next two years at least.

If these transfer rules pass, pushing back the Big Five and having essentially the ability to reschedule because it's an hour round trip for the away team and still make a decent ooc from it will look like a genius move between the elgibility and injuries coming back. Temple intrigues me, it will be a completely different team this year, last year was very much still the previous staff's group.
Last year's team was incredibly talented, but the transfer to McKie taking over was not nearly as smooth as people anticipated it would be. No one transferred out, but obviously the way the program was run took a sharp enough turn to disgruntle some of the vets. Rumors from inside the locker room claimed that Josh Pierre-Louis was a huge trouble maker from day one, Nate PL obviously gave up on the team, Monty Scott apparently almost came to blows with someone on the coaching staff.

You can tell the difference in body language and intensity on the court from the Maryland game when we had them on the ropes in November to AAC play. I remember going back and watching highlights from November games later in the season and couldn't believe it was the same team. Word had it that getting blown out in Tulsa was the final straw to the locker room cohesion.

Amazing how quickly you can go from "hey this team looks like they can make serious noise" to "man I hope we can finish 9th". That's the nature of college hoops now though. If you're not a blue blood or a team with a super stable coaching staff, you gotta go into full rebuild mode once in a while. I mean, how soon people forget that John Chaney even left Temple hoops in the toilet on his way out.
12-13-2020 05:57 PM
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Foreverandever Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
(12-13-2020 05:57 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  
(12-13-2020 05:29 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(12-13-2020 05:24 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  If you'd asked me a few weeks ago, I would've said I'd be shocked if Temple won more than 3 or 4 games in the conference. I like the talent coming in, but we're returning literally nothing besides a few very mediocre frontcourt players. But, after seeing the quality of some of these groups this year, and hearing from folks inside practice that this should be the best 3-point shooting Temple team in years, I wouldn't be surprised to finish outside the bottom 2 or 3. Having only one game under their belt before AAC play is gonna hurt though.

So many new faces this year, a second year of McKie's style with a backcourt of only his recruits, and I'm so excited to see this year's team despite the growing pains we're gonna push through the next two years at least.

If these transfer rules pass, pushing back the Big Five and having essentially the ability to reschedule because it's an hour round trip for the away team and still make a decent ooc from it will look like a genius move between the elgibility and injuries coming back. Temple intrigues me, it will be a completely different team this year, last year was very much still the previous staff's group.
Last year's team was incredibly talented, but the transfer to McKie taking over was not nearly as smooth as people anticipated it would be. No one transferred out, but obviously the way the program was run took a sharp enough turn to disgruntle some of the vets. Rumors from inside the locker room claimed that Josh Pierre-Louis was a huge trouble maker from day one, Nate PL obviously gave up on the team, Monty Scott apparently almost came to blows with someone on the coaching staff.

You can tell the difference in body language and intensity on the court from the Maryland game when we had them on the ropes in November to AAC play. I remember going back and watching highlights from November games later in the season and couldn't believe it was the same team. Word had it that getting blown out in Tulsa was the final straw to the locker room cohesion.

Amazing how quickly you can go from "hey this team looks like they can make serious noise" to "man I hope we can finish 9th". That's the nature of college hoops now though. If you're not a blue blood or a team with a super stable coaching staff, you gotta go into full rebuild mode once in a while. I mean, how soon people forget that John Chaney even left Temple hoops in the toilet on his way out.

Not to over simplify but McKie wants a different type of player than what Temple had, I don't mean in talent or skills, I mean in attitude and personality. I think McKie has a lot of Chaney in him. There will be more "junkyard dogs" in the program and those types don't mix well with everyone.
12-13-2020 06:03 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
(12-13-2020 06:03 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(12-13-2020 05:57 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  
(12-13-2020 05:29 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(12-13-2020 05:24 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  If you'd asked me a few weeks ago, I would've said I'd be shocked if Temple won more than 3 or 4 games in the conference. I like the talent coming in, but we're returning literally nothing besides a few very mediocre frontcourt players. But, after seeing the quality of some of these groups this year, and hearing from folks inside practice that this should be the best 3-point shooting Temple team in years, I wouldn't be surprised to finish outside the bottom 2 or 3. Having only one game under their belt before AAC play is gonna hurt though.

So many new faces this year, a second year of McKie's style with a backcourt of only his recruits, and I'm so excited to see this year's team despite the growing pains we're gonna push through the next two years at least.

If these transfer rules pass, pushing back the Big Five and having essentially the ability to reschedule because it's an hour round trip for the away team and still make a decent ooc from it will look like a genius move between the elgibility and injuries coming back. Temple intrigues me, it will be a completely different team this year, last year was very much still the previous staff's group.
Last year's team was incredibly talented, but the transfer to McKie taking over was not nearly as smooth as people anticipated it would be. No one transferred out, but obviously the way the program was run took a sharp enough turn to disgruntle some of the vets. Rumors from inside the locker room claimed that Josh Pierre-Louis was a huge trouble maker from day one, Nate PL obviously gave up on the team, Monty Scott apparently almost came to blows with someone on the coaching staff.

You can tell the difference in body language and intensity on the court from the Maryland game when we had them on the ropes in November to AAC play. I remember going back and watching highlights from November games later in the season and couldn't believe it was the same team. Word had it that getting blown out in Tulsa was the final straw to the locker room cohesion.

Amazing how quickly you can go from "hey this team looks like they can make serious noise" to "man I hope we can finish 9th". That's the nature of college hoops now though. If you're not a blue blood or a team with a super stable coaching staff, you gotta go into full rebuild mode once in a while. I mean, how soon people forget that John Chaney even left Temple hoops in the toilet on his way out.

Not to over simplify but McKie wants a different type of player than what Temple had, I don't mean in talent or skills, I mean in attitude and personality. I think McKie has a lot of Chaney in him. There will be more "junkyard dogs" in the program and those types don't mix well with everyone.

McKie may have a lot of Chaney in him, but what that means is recruiting players with a higher level of drive, dedication, and hunger to win. Chaney's players had to get up before 6 a.m. each morning for practice, making it clear that basketball was their top priority. They were often described with terms such as "disciplined," "serious," and "workman-like."

What gave Chaney's Temple teams a strong sense of identity was that many of them were "diamonds in the rough" who hadn't been pampered and had to work hard for anything they got. They were scrappy enough to win more than their share of upsets, but very few players had disciplinary issues, and in general, Temple basketball players during the Chaney era were often described in very positive terms, such as "gentlemen."
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2020 06:32 PM by jedclampett.)
12-13-2020 06:19 PM
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oasispirate Offline
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RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
(12-10-2020 07:05 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  If ECU doesn't beat North Florida, it should be kicked out of the league by 8:30 tomorrow morning. It's embarrassing what a horrendous OOC schedule you guys have had over the last number of years and then unceremoniously lose to the flotsam and jetsam of FCS or Division II or whatever else those kinds of schools are called these days.

North Florida actually isn't terrible. As posted above they've played a murderous schedule. Beat a decent FIU team the other night, lost FAU by 2 a couple of nights prior.

Our schedule will be at least a little better next year. We play in the Myrtle Beach tournament next year with Oklahoma, Davidson, Boston College, etc.

Short of injury, we're not going to finish last in this conference, it honestly wouldn't surprised me to see us top 5. Our incoming class appears to be very good and most of our key guys will be back. Dooley is going to get us to the NCAA tournament at some point, I firmly believe that.
12-13-2020 07:45 PM
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vick mike Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
(12-13-2020 06:19 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(12-13-2020 06:03 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(12-13-2020 05:57 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  
(12-13-2020 05:29 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(12-13-2020 05:24 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  If you'd asked me a few weeks ago, I would've said I'd be shocked if Temple won more than 3 or 4 games in the conference. I like the talent coming in, but we're returning literally nothing besides a few very mediocre frontcourt players. But, after seeing the quality of some of these groups this year, and hearing from folks inside practice that this should be the best 3-point shooting Temple team in years, I wouldn't be surprised to finish outside the bottom 2 or 3. Having only one game under their belt before AAC play is gonna hurt though.

So many new faces this year, a second year of McKie's style with a backcourt of only his recruits, and I'm so excited to see this year's team despite the growing pains we're gonna push through the next two years at least.

If these transfer rules pass, pushing back the Big Five and having essentially the ability to reschedule because it's an hour round trip for the away team and still make a decent ooc from it will look like a genius move between the elgibility and injuries coming back. Temple intrigues me, it will be a completely different team this year, last year was very much still the previous staff's group.
Last year's team was incredibly talented, but the transfer to McKie taking over was not nearly as smooth as people anticipated it would be. No one transferred out, but obviously the way the program was run took a sharp enough turn to disgruntle some of the vets. Rumors from inside the locker room claimed that Josh Pierre-Louis was a huge trouble maker from day one, Nate PL obviously gave up on the team, Monty Scott apparently almost came to blows with someone on the coaching staff.

You can tell the difference in body language and intensity on the court from the Maryland game when we had them on the ropes in November to AAC play. I remember going back and watching highlights from November games later in the season and couldn't believe it was the same team. Word had it that getting blown out in Tulsa was the final straw to the locker room cohesion.

Amazing how quickly you can go from "hey this team looks like they can make serious noise" to "man I hope we can finish 9th". That's the nature of college hoops now though. If you're not a blue blood or a team with a super stable coaching staff, you gotta go into full rebuild mode once in a while. I mean, how soon people forget that John Chaney even left Temple hoops in the toilet on his way out.

Not to over simplify but McKie wants a different type of player than what Temple had, I don't mean in talent or skills, I mean in attitude and personality. I think McKie has a lot of Chaney in him. There will be more "junkyard dogs" in the program and those types don't mix well with everyone.

McKie may have a lot of Chaney in him, but what that means is recruiting players with a higher level of drive, dedication, and hunger to win. Chaney's players had to get up before 6 a.m. each morning for practice, making it clear that basketball was their top priority. They were often described with terms such as "disciplined," "serious," and "workman-like."

What gave Chaney's Temple teams a strong sense of identity was that many of them were "diamonds in the rough" who hadn't been pampered and had to work hard for anything they got. They were scrappy enough to win more than their share of upsets, but very few players had disciplinary issues, and in general, Temple basketball players during the Chaney era were often described in very positive terms, such as "gentlemen."

My first two roommates at Temple in Johnson Hall were basketball players, 3 of us in a 2 person room and 2 of us 6’7” or taller. (not me) Great guys, nose to the grindstone, you got it right Jed.
12-13-2020 08:10 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
(12-13-2020 05:57 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  
(12-13-2020 05:29 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  
(12-13-2020 05:24 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  If you'd asked me a few weeks ago, I would've said I'd be shocked if Temple won more than 3 or 4 games in the conference. I like the talent coming in, but we're returning literally nothing besides a few very mediocre frontcourt players. But, after seeing the quality of some of these groups this year, and hearing from folks inside practice that this should be the best 3-point shooting Temple team in years, I wouldn't be surprised to finish outside the bottom 2 or 3. Having only one game under their belt before AAC play is gonna hurt though.

So many new faces this year, a second year of McKie's style with a backcourt of only his recruits, and I'm so excited to see this year's team despite the growing pains we're gonna push through the next two years at least.

If these transfer rules pass, pushing back the Big Five and having essentially the ability to reschedule because it's an hour round trip for the away team and still make a decent ooc from it will look like a genius move between the elgibility and injuries coming back. Temple intrigues me, it will be a completely different team this year, last year was very much still the previous staff's group.

Last year's team was incredibly talented, but the transfer to McKie taking over was not nearly as smooth as people anticipated it would be...

Amazing how quickly you can go from "hey this team looks like they can make serious noise" to "man I hope we can finish 9th". That's the nature of college hoops now though. If you're not a blue blood or a team with a super stable coaching staff, you gotta go into full rebuild mode once in a while.

With the addition of PG Barry, a 40%+ 3 point shooter from Dartmouth, and the unexpected waiver of both of their two other transfers, (Battle & Tolbert), the team's prospects have brightened somewhat.

On the other hand, despite the additions, the team will only start the season with 11 active players, with two recovering from surgery. Further, due to Covid, they haven't been able to play or practice for two weeks, which will put them at a disadvantage in the early weeks.

With the 3 incoming transfers, Coach McKie will be able to start game with five players who have at least one year of D1 experience:


PG/1: Barry* (Grad Tr.). Backups: Dunn (RS Fr.), Williams (Fr.)

SG/2: Battle^ (So. Tr.). Backup: Williams (Fr.)

Wing/3: Perry* (Sr.). Backup: Ademokoya (Fr.; HS FG3%: .390)

PF/4: Moorman (Sr.). Likely Backups: Tolbert (Jr. Tr.), Perry (Sr.)

PF/5©: Forrester^ (Jr. Tr.). Backups: Tolbert (Jr.), Parks (RS So.), Jourdain (Fr.)

.
*40%+ 3 point shooters

^4 star recruits


Injured: Strickland (SO. Tr. Guard), White (Fr. Guard/Wing)

.....................................................................................................

Pluses:

1. Deep, experienced front court with proven scorers

2. Back court will feature two 40%+ three-point shooters, and a wing with a .390 FG3% coming off the bench.

Minuses:

1. Only 4 returning players, and only 7 available with D1 experience.

2. Missing top two players from their (sub-.500) 2019-20 team.

3. Two players not available due to preseason injuries requiring surgery.

4. Ability to limit opponent scoring is uncertain.

5. Ability to penetrate from perimeter to hoop is uncertain.

6. Ability to create open shots will depend on play-making ability (TBD).

Summary:

This is going to be a classic rebuilding year for the Owls, with all of the associated challenges.

The team may get off to a slow start, due to missed games/practices, and having so many new or unexperienced players.

However, there are enough perimeter and interior scorers to make them an exciting team to watch on offense - - if they can execute crisp passing & dish the ball to the open man.

Much will depend on how long it takes the team to gel as a unit.
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2020 08:40 PM by jedclampett.)
12-13-2020 08:27 PM
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The Grape King Offline
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RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
I think the similarities between McKie and Chaney might be a little overstated. Sure, McKie was influenced by Chaney a ton and will carry some of that with him, but let's not act like he wants to or should run the program just like Chaney did (don't forget how long he was under Larry Brown too, and his coaches in the public and Sonny Hill leagues).

McKie might attract a tougher breed, but Dunph brought in hard-nosed players and ran an intense program. I think the game, both the xs and os and recruiting, just passed him by. He was much softer in public than he was in practice.

McKie's trying to infuse that old school Philly toughness with a more professional climate that top end programs operate in. A huge part of his sell is his NBA background, and he's said since day one he wants to bring some of that level to the program.

You can't treat players the way Chaney did anymore. I'm glad it brought the school success for two decades, but you need to treat players with a different level of respect today. If he tries to replicate the Temple program he came through, no one will want to play for him.

Also, I gotta disagree about proven inside scoring. The only guy who's shown an ability to regularly finish inside is Forrester, and he needs to figure out how to stay on the floor. Perry has shown a high ceiling for getting to and finishing at the rim, but it's only come through in flashes. Excited to see if he puts it together for his senior season.
12-13-2020 09:22 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
(12-13-2020 09:22 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  You can't treat players the way Chaney did anymore. I'm glad it brought the school success for two decades, but you need to treat players with a different level of respect today. If he tries to replicate the Temple program he came through, no one will want to play for him.

On this point, you are mistaken, unless you are simply suggesting that no one would want to play at Temple if they had to get up for 6 a.m. practices, the way they did during the Chaney era.

No one who was a well-informed follower of Temple basketball between 1983 and 2006 has ever accused Chaney of showing disrespect toward his players.

To the contrary, Chaney had an outstanding reputation for showing the utmost commitment to his players. For Chaney, teaching his student-athletes to play basketball was not what it was all about. His top priority, which he reiterated many times and was widely known for in the region, was to help them in their overall development as persons. He also emphasized the importance of their studies and completing their education at Temple. As noted above, his student-athletes came to be known for their seriousness, their work ethic, and for developing the reputation of being gentlemen.

(12-13-2020 09:22 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  Also, I gotta disagree about proven inside scoring. The only guy who's shown an ability to regularly finish inside is Forrester, and he needs to figure out how to stay on the floor. Perry has shown a high ceiling for getting to and finishing at the rim, but it's only come through in flashes. Excited to see if he puts it together for his senior season.

It's the combination of Tolbert and Forrester with Perry, in particular, that will provide Temple with improved inside scoring potential. The team may also get improved scoring from Parks and newcomer Jourdain.

Forrester (17.2 mpg): 17.3 pts per 40 minutes of play (FG2%: .533)

Tolbert (27.3 mpg): 14.1 pts per 40 minutes of play (FG2%: .583)

Perry (17.6 mpg): 14 pts per 40 minutes of play (FG2%: .569; FG3%: .413)

In addition:

Arashma Parks, who hadn't originally been expected to contribute many points, scored a respectable 11 pts per 40 minutes of play in his freshman year and may have significant upside potential.

Nick Jourdain, a freshman PF, averaged 19 points per game in 2019-20.

.

As starters, and with only 2 non-starters with D1 experience on the roster, Perry and Forrester are both likely to play 25-30 mpg - possibly more - in 2020-21, and Tolbert is likely to play 20+ mpg.

As a result, the Owls will have more PFs with solid scoring potential on the court throughout each game in 2020-21 than they had last season.


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/sch.../2020.html

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla...ert-1.html

.

Forrester is likely to play a lot more minutes in 2020-21 than his 2019-20 average of 17 mpg, due to the fact that two of the team's other players at his position (D. Moore (10.2 mpg) & Hamilton (10.5 mpg)) are not returning.

Forrester's so-called "PF issue" has been exaggerated. Even if he doesn't cut down on his average of 2.7 PFs per 17 minutes last season - - which he has been working hard on doing - - he would still be able to play 25 mpg, on average, before picking up his 4th PF. If he can cut his PF rate by as little as 25%, he could increase his playing time to 30 mpg.

Similarly, with respect to turnovers, Forrester only needs to cut his turnover rate by 20% in order to play 30+ mpg in 2020-21, and this seems eminently doable. He is also working hard to earn more playing time by improving his defensive play, although his DRtg and DWS stats last season were near the team's average.
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2020 10:53 PM by jedclampett.)
12-13-2020 10:52 PM
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The Grape King Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
(12-13-2020 10:52 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(12-13-2020 09:22 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  You can't treat players the way Chaney did anymore. I'm glad it brought the school success for two decades, but you need to treat players with a different level of respect today. If he tries to replicate the Temple program he came through, no one will want to play for him.

On this point, you are mistaken, unless you are simply suggesting that no one would want to play at Temple if they had to get up for 6 a.m. practices, the way they did during the Chaney era.

No one who was a well-informed follower of Temple basketball between 1983 and 2006 has ever accused Chaney of showing disrespect toward his players.

To the contrary, Chaney had an outstanding reputation for showing the utmost commitment to his players. For Chaney, teaching his student-athletes to play basketball was not what it was all about. His top priority, which he reiterated many times and was widely known for in the region, was to help them in their overall development as persons. He also emphasized the importance of their studies and completing their education at Temple. As noted above, his student-athletes came to be known for their seriousness, their work ethic, and for developing the reputation of being gentlemen.

(12-13-2020 09:22 PM)The Grape King Wrote:  Also, I gotta disagree about proven inside scoring. The only guy who's shown an ability to regularly finish inside is Forrester, and he needs to figure out how to stay on the floor. Perry has shown a high ceiling for getting to and finishing at the rim, but it's only come through in flashes. Excited to see if he puts it together for his senior season.

It's the combination of Tolbert and Forrester with Perry, in particular, that will provide Temple with improved inside scoring potential. The team may also get improved scoring from Parks and newcomer Jourdain.

Forrester (17.2 mpg): 17.3 pts per 40 minutes of play (FG2%: .533)

Tolbert (27.3 mpg): 14.1 pts per 40 minutes of play (FG2%: .583)

Perry (17.6 mpg): 14 pts per 40 minutes of play (FG2%: .569; FG3%: .413)

In addition:

Arashma Parks, who hadn't originally been expected to contribute many points, scored a respectable 11 pts per 40 minutes of play in his freshman year and may have significant upside potential.

Nick Jourdain, a freshman PF, averaged 19 points per game in 2019-20.

.

As starters, and with only 2 non-starters with D1 experience on the roster, Perry and Forrester are both likely to play 25-30 mpg - possibly more - in 2020-21, and Tolbert is likely to play 20+ mpg.

As a result, the Owls will have more PFs with solid scoring potential on the court throughout each game in 2020-21 than they had last season.


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/sch.../2020.html

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla...ert-1.html

.

Forrester is likely to play a lot more minutes in 2020-21 than his 2019-20 average of 17 mpg, due to the fact that two of the team's other players at his position (D. Moore (10.2 mpg) & Hamilton (10.5 mpg)) are not returning.

Forrester's so-called "PF issue" has been exaggerated. Even if he doesn't cut down on his average of 2.7 PFs per 17 minutes last season - - which he has been working hard on doing - - he would still be able to play 25 mpg, on average, before picking up his 4th PF. If he can cut his PF rate by as little as 25%, he could increase his playing time to 30 mpg.

Similarly, with respect to turnovers, Forrester only needs to cut his turnover rate by 20% in order to play 30+ mpg in 2020-21, and this seems eminently doable. He is also working hard to earn more playing time by improving his defensive play, although his DRtg and DWS stats last season were near the team's average.

We tell you this on every board, you can't just regurgitate advanced stats to prop up some point you make with apparently zero context of the world that exists beyond North Broad. You can do the same thing with every roster in the country and say the frontcourt has "potential".

DI players can put the ball in the hoop once in a while. The issue is can these guys, individually and as a unit, stand up to other AAC frontcourts? Can Perry bang down low with Houston? Can Moorman create shots against Memphis? The answer is probably no. If every single player hits their ceiling, could they be respectable? Sure. I like Parks a lot and Forrester could be a force if he can figure out how to stay on the court. But are all 4 of them going to hit that ceiling? Are Perry and JP gonna shoot 40% from deep? Is Parks gonna stay healthy? Is Tolbert gonna be able to contribute at this level right off the bat? The chance that all of those things happen is very low, and the frontcourt will probably get worked in AAC play.

Let's be realistic and hope they field a respectable product during a rebuilding, pandemic rocked season. And if all those guys come back next year, it might be a more competitive group.

As far as Chaney goes, I'm not staying he didn't care about his players, I'm saying there's less and less of a place for his confrontational and demanding style. Ask Gregg Marshall and Pat Chambers. Ask Bob Knight. You think Chaney never pushed, hit, choked his players behind closed doors? You think he didn't use abusive language? Do you think he'd be able to keep his job if the Calipari incident happened now? He instructed his players to try to injure Martelli's players, and the two of them were friends. You think that was an isolated incident?

That sort of stuff was acceptable in the 80's and 90's. Chaney is in the Hall of Fame where he belongs, but McKie probably can't do 10% of what Chaney got away with for most of his career without losing his job or pushing players out every year. It's the reality of the times, and McKie certainly knows that.
12-14-2020 02:49 AM
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Post: #79
RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
(12-10-2020 07:05 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  If ECU doesn't beat North Florida, it should be kicked out of the league by 8:30 tomorrow morning. It's embarrassing what a horrendous OOC schedule you guys have had over the last number of years and then unceremoniously lose to the flotsam and jetsam of FCS or Division II or whatever else those kinds of schools are called these days.

2-2 teams should just shush 07-coffee3
12-14-2020 02:28 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Rating the AAC in men's basketball
.

The AAC's W-L record, to date, is 30-12 (.714).

The WCC's is 37-15 (.711)

The A-10's is 28-22 (.560)

The MWC's is 27-15 (.643)

7 AAC teams, 5 WCC teams, 8 A-10 teams, and 4 MWC teams are ranked in the top 100 in the Massey Composite Rankings.

NOTE:

Current Conference Rankings, according to barttorvik.com:

#1 B10 (.813)
#2 B12 (.782)
#3 SEC (.724)
#4 BE (.727)
#5 ACC (.719)
#6 P12 (.649)
#7 A10 (.560)
#8 WCC (.711)
#9 Amer (.714)

#10 Pat
#11 SC
#12 MWC (.643)

https://barttorvik.com./trank.php?year=2021&sort=&lastx=0&firstx=&hteam=&t2value=&conlimit=All&state=All&conyes=1&begin=20201101&end=20210501&top=0&quad=5&venue=All&type=All&mingames=0#
(This post was last modified: 12-14-2020 06:58 PM by jedclampett.)
12-14-2020 06:06 PM
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