quo vadis
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RE: Vandy provides a safety briefing before most of the country watches its game....
(12-02-2020 03:53 PM)schmolik Wrote: (12-02-2020 11:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote: (12-01-2020 01:47 PM)bill dazzle Wrote: Well done, my friend.
And now I shall commence with referring to myself on this board from this point forward as "Genteel" Bill Dazzle.
Feel free to, LOL. :)
One way to put it is there are two strands of populism in the USA. One kind, more prevalent in liberal/northern areas, is of the "leveling" kind. This kind hates social hierarchy and "inequality" in and of itself. Their goal is to level off the top and create a socio-economically equal society. Basically a socialist tendency.
The other kind, more prevalent in conservative areas, is aspirational. To the extent these populists hate the elite, it is because they want to be elite themselves. They don't want to eliminate the elite as a class or social category, they want to join it, and their work is directed towards eliminating what they see as unfair barriers erected by the present elite to keep them down.
We see this split on this forum as well among fans of G5 schools. Some G5 fans want a return to the pre-1984 supreme court ruling era, before huge conference-based media deals, when the NCAA controlled TV and everyone in Division I (or at least FBS) got essentially the same TV money whether you were Alabama or San Jose State. They oppose the P5/G5 distinction in all its forms, including Autonomy status and CFP distributions. Their ideal is FBS as one big equal-sharing league, like the pro sports leagues.
But others object to the P5/G5 distinction in the other sense, the sense of wanting to join the Club. They don't want big-money, big-time College Football to go away, they want their school to join in on that. They want what Alabama has. These types often vent frustration that Vanderbilt-type schools are in the P5 whereas their schools, who they view as far more competitive, are unfairly frozen out by traditions, histories, etc. They don't object to the existence of an elite per se, just its composition, which they think should include themselves.
On this forum, at least, the latter type of CFB populism seems to be the clear majority.
Yes I'm an alum of two Big Ten schools (Illinois and Penn State). I also live in the Philly area, home to Villanova, one of the best men's basketball schools in the country that doesn't have the athletic budget or revenue of the P5's and Temple who was kicked out of the Big East so I know what it feels like to sit at the kiddie table too and wonder why a whole bunch of schools are considered "better" than Temple and Villanova.
As far as money is concerned, I understand why you regard Villanova and Temple similarly. But in terms of respect and status? I would say that both as an individual program and in terms of conference membership, Villanova is on a status and respect par with even the elite P5 basketball programs. They aren't suffering in any way on that count. They just aren't getting paid like it.
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12-02-2020 07:58 PM |
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Section 200
Special Teams
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RE: Vandy provides a safety briefing before most of the country watches its game....
I think Vandy will leave the SEC - it may take 10 or 15 years, but ultimately Vanderbilt and the other 13 schools are moving in completely opposite directions. Vandy disbanded the athletic department, has an old, small, obsolete stadium and supports less sports than required.
The other 13 schools have football palaces, including Kentucky that was last really good at football before the vast majority of Americans were born.
Eventually it will happen. Vandy is purposely not trying at sports. They have the money, they are in Nashville - they could easily be great - it is an active institutional decision not to compete. The other 13 schools, or boosters aligned with them, will do anything, legal or illegal, to win a SEC football title.
They just aren't compatible anymore. I agree that Vandy would fit much better in the ACC but I don't see a path. Magnolia League makes the most sense. Ultimately, I think Vandy, Wake, Duke, Tulane, Tulsa, etc will drop P5 football and join together. Ivy League schools do great. Do the students at any of these schools care about football at all?
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12-02-2020 07:59 PM |
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AllTideUp
Heisman
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RE: Vandy provides a safety briefing before most of the country watches its game....
(12-02-2020 07:59 PM)Section 200 Wrote: I think Vandy will leave the SEC - it may take 10 or 15 years, but ultimately Vanderbilt and the other 13 schools are moving in completely opposite directions. Vandy disbanded the athletic department, has an old, small, obsolete stadium and supports less sports than required.
The other 13 schools have football palaces, including Kentucky that was last really good at football before the vast majority of Americans were born.
Eventually it will happen. Vandy is purposely not trying at sports. They have the money, they are in Nashville - they could easily be great - it is an active institutional decision not to compete. The other 13 schools, or boosters aligned with them, will do anything, legal or illegal, to win a SEC football title.
They just aren't compatible anymore. I agree that Vandy would fit much better in the ACC but I don't see a path. Magnolia League makes the most sense. Ultimately, I think Vandy, Wake, Duke, Tulane, Tulsa, etc will drop P5 football and join together. Ivy League schools do great. Do the students at any of these schools care about football at all?
The notion of a Magnolia League makes sense.
People usually put Duke in that category, but I don't see it honestly. They have been competing at the highest levels of college basketball for a long time. It's helped them forge a national identity and they make plenty of money doing it. In part, their identity is tied to the other schools in their region with which they compete...UNC, Virginia, NC State...rivalries that would be significant if lost. I think they will follow that path even though academically, they are obviously among the best and fit the Magnolia mold.
Schools like Rice, Vanderbilt, Tulsa, and a few others might even attract more fans if they stopped sponsoring scholarship football. Not that their ranks would swell, but it would help them establish a different identify in their communities. I'm not sure I would put Tulane in that category though as they did just spend on a new football stadium. It might very well be their ambition to ascend if possible.
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12-03-2020 02:22 PM |
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XLance
Hall of Famer
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RE: Vandy provides a safety briefing before most of the country watches its game....
(12-03-2020 02:22 PM)AllTideUp Wrote: (12-02-2020 07:59 PM)Section 200 Wrote: I think Vandy will leave the SEC - it may take 10 or 15 years, but ultimately Vanderbilt and the other 13 schools are moving in completely opposite directions. Vandy disbanded the athletic department, has an old, small, obsolete stadium and supports less sports than required.
The other 13 schools have football palaces, including Kentucky that was last really good at football before the vast majority of Americans were born.
Eventually it will happen. Vandy is purposely not trying at sports. They have the money, they are in Nashville - they could easily be great - it is an active institutional decision not to compete. The other 13 schools, or boosters aligned with them, will do anything, legal or illegal, to win a SEC football title.
They just aren't compatible anymore. I agree that Vandy would fit much better in the ACC but I don't see a path. Magnolia League makes the most sense. Ultimately, I think Vandy, Wake, Duke, Tulane, Tulsa, etc will drop P5 football and join together. Ivy League schools do great. Do the students at any of these schools care about football at all?
The notion of a Magnolia League makes sense.
People usually put Duke in that category, but I don't see it honestly. They have been competing at the highest levels of college basketball for a long time. It's helped them forge a national identity and they make plenty of money doing it. In part, their identity is tied to the other schools in their region with which they compete...UNC, Virginia, NC State...rivalries that would be significant if lost. I think they will follow that path even though academically, they are obviously among the best and fit the Magnolia mold.
Schools like Rice, Vanderbilt, Tulsa, and a few others might even attract more fans if they stopped sponsoring scholarship football. Not that their ranks would swell, but it would help them establish a different identify in their communities. I'm not sure I would put Tulane in that category though as they did just spend on a new football stadium. It might very well be their ambition to ascend if possible.
There are several good candidates:
Wake Forest, Duke, Richmond, Rice, SMU, Tulsa has been mentioned, Tulane, Vanderbilt, throw in Northwestern and maybe Miami (O) and you've got quite a league.
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12-03-2020 04:30 PM |
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