Candle is going the way of Amstutz. Prove me wrong. Team is in a slow decline. No dominant aspect of the team. We are mediocre on a good day. It’s time for our overpaid coach to go. The penalty count at the moment is atrocious!

(11-28-2020 12:45 PM)BusDriver Wrote:  Candle is going the way of Amstutz. Prove me wrong. Team is in a slow decline. No dominant aspect of the team. We are mediocre on a good day. It’s time for our overpaid coach to go. The penalty count at the moment is atrocious!

+1

Simrell of the 21st century

Clamor for a 6-6 record

Fan base yawns


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(11-28-2020 01:54 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  Simrell of the 21st century

Clamor for a 6-6 record

Fan base yawns


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At least Dan Simrell was approachable and did not possess the arrogance of a JC...

Spot on FM.... so true if one has had the experience !

+1

Is it possible we have mediocre coaches in FB, MBB, & WBB?

Maybe we expect too much. Pinkel won just 1 MAC championship in his 10 years at the helm (1995). After the divisions were set up, he won division titles in 1997 and 1998 - then lost to Marshall in both years in the MACC game. Amstutz took titles in 2001 and 2004 and went to the championship game in 2002 that we should have/could have won - and probably would have if it was on a neutral field. The decline came under Amstutz. Beckman never won a title. Campbell never won a title. Candle won a title in 2017. So over a period of 25 years we have won 4 MAC championships. During that same period of time, NIU has also won 4 titles, Central Michigan has 3, Miami 3, BUGS 2, and several with 1 each (Buffalo, Akron, WMU, Ball St.) Marshall had 5. The issue is that after the impact of Pinkel's process (discipline and accountability using playing time as a reward), along with recruiting for team needs, we have been in a steady decline. I would credit both of Amstutz's championships to a combination of the Pinkel legacy along with Amstutz's understanding of what it took on offense to win championships - not just play in the MACC games. That has lead to 1 championship in the past 15 years - and soon to be 16 years. That is the real issue.

The question was asked if O'Brien is the problem. You can't blame it all on him, but he has not exactly gone after the world beaters for the head coaching position. Amstutz came from within. He went out and hired Beckman who has burned out his flame in the coaching profession. Then it was Campbell from within and Candle from within. So of the 4 coaches brought into the football HC position, O'Brien succumbed to the easy way out - hire from within. BG has 2 championships in the past 15 years - we have 1. That is the real issue. We beat them head-to-head 10 times in the past 11 years, but they have 2 championships during that period. We have 1. Of course we have had a rougher time getting to the MACC, but when we couldn't beat NIU, BG embarrassed them for a championship. And we beat them that year as well.

Yes - we have been mediocre over the past decade and a half. I blame O'Brien for not looking outside for the best football head coach candidates available. We say we want a guy who will be here a long time. Why have that if you don't win championships - or are headed in the wrong direction with years left on a massive contract. Both women's and men's basketball had a period of time where we were always in the hunt for a championship. That has not been the case for a long time. Again, the recent lack of success is telling about the progress within the athletic department. You would think with the attendance numbers we have had for women's basketball that recruiting against the other MAC teams would be a cinch. Apparently that is not true. Are we to blame for having higher expectations? Maybe O'Brien blames the fans for expecting too much and wants to prove he is right about that point.

(11-30-2020 07:13 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  Maybe we expect too much. Pinkel won just 1 MAC championship in his 10 years at the helm (1995). After the divisions were set up, he won division titles in 1997 and 1998 - then lost to Marshall in both years in the MACC game. Amstutz took titles in 2001 and 2004 and went to the championship game in 2002 that we should have/could have won - and probably would have if it was on a neutral field. The decline came under Amstutz. Beckman never won a title. Campbell never won a title. Candle won a title in 2017. So over a period of 25 years we have won 4 MAC championships. During that same period of time, NIU has also won 4 titles, Central Michigan has 3, Miami 3, BUGS 2, and several with 1 each (Buffalo, Akron, WMU, Ball St.) Marshall had 5. The issue is that after the impact of Pinkel's process (discipline and accountability using playing time as a reward), along with recruiting for team needs, we have been in a steady decline. I would credit both of Amstutz's championships to a combination of the Pinkel legacy along with Amstutz's understanding of what it took on offense to win championships - not just play in the MACC games. That has lead to 1 championship in the past 15 years - and soon to be 16 years. That is the real issue.

The question was asked if O'Brien is the problem. You can't blame it all on him, but he has not exactly gone after the world beaters for the head coaching position. Amstutz came from within. He went out and hired Beckman who has burned out his flame in the coaching profession. Then it was Campbell from within and Candle from within. So of the 4 coaches brought into the football HC position, O'Brien succumbed to the easy way out - hire from within. BG has 2 championships in the past 15 years - we have 1. That is the real issue. We beat them head-to-head 10 times in the past 11 years, but they have 2 championships during that period. We have 1. Of course we have had a rougher time getting to the MACC, but when we couldn't beat NIU, BG embarrassed them for a championship. And we beat them that year as well.

Yes - we have been mediocre over the past decade and a half. I blame O'Brien for not looking outside for the best football head coach candidates available. We say we want a guy who will be here a long time. Why have that if you don't win championships - or are headed in the wrong direction with years left on a massive contract. Both women's and men's basketball had a period of time where we were always in the hunt for a championship. That has not been the case for a long time. Again, the recent lack of success is telling about the progress within the athletic department. You would think with the attendance numbers we have had for women's basketball that recruiting against the other MAC teams would be a cinch. Apparently that is not true. Are we to blame for having higher expectations? Maybe O'Brien blames the fans for expecting too much and wants to prove he is right about that point.

Sure, MOB did promote from within on the last four coaching hires in football, but was it such a bad thing?

Amstutz won the MAC twice and had an overall record of 58-41. Pinkel might've been more responsible for some of that success, especially early on, than Amstutz was, but it was still a successful run. Beckman, a certifiable lunatic, did a nice job in three years, going 21-16 and taking the Rockets to two bowl games. Campbell didn't win the MAC, but he ran a very good program and won 35 games, getting us to four bowl games along the way. MOB screwed up with Candle, giving him that early contract extension after he started 21-7 and won the MAC, but I think MOB was afraid of losing yet another coach to a bigger school and thought he'd found another good one in Candle. Obviously MOB was wrong, but it's a mistake that a lot of us would've probably made. Hindsight is always 20/20.

(11-30-2020 09:22 PM)nworocket Wrote:  Sure, MOB did promote from within on the last four coaching hires in football, but was it such a bad thing?
.

I think we're on about out 100th thread saying "yes." 100 threads with good reasons all given, not all about winning and losing.

(11-30-2020 09:22 PM)nworocket Wrote:  MOB screwed up with Candle, giving him that early contract extension after he started 21-7 and won the MAC, but I think MOB was afraid of losing yet another coach to a bigger school and thought he'd found another good one in Candle. Obviously MOB was wrong, but it's a mistake that a lot of us would've probably made. Hindsight is always 20/20.

+1

(12-01-2020 02:00 AM)UTfanBGalum Wrote:  

(11-30-2020 09:22 PM)nworocket Wrote:  MOB screwed up with Candle, giving him that early contract extension after he started 21-7 and won the MAC, but I think MOB was afraid of losing yet another coach to a bigger school and thought he'd found another good one in Candle. Obviously MOB was wrong, but it's a mistake that a lot of us would've probably made. Hindsight is always 20/20.

+1

-1

It's not hindsight to say a very poor decision was made. Voices were raised at the time. "A lot" will make any mistake in any situation. We're not supposed to be immune from repercussions from that mistake.

Facilities are far beyond what much of the competition has. The teams up and down the line do not seem to be able to make the next step and several of the programs are under performing or not performing at all. Game time decisions and preparation in football is clearly suspect, headed by a coach that seems to take no responsibility and is slow to adjust.

Admin should not "be afraid" to try someone new in the Dept. If he's not encouraged to help with a proper national search and step aside, it's not unreasonable to say it's time to force it, with no animosity.

(11-30-2020 07:13 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  We say we want a guy who will be here a long time.

I've given up on the idea of having a coach for a long time. Truth is that if a P5 school isn't banging on our coach's door with a multi million dollar contract within 4 years, we probably don't want him either. I hate it, but if you want to be a successful G5 school, you'll need to hire a new coach every 3 or 4 years.

(12-01-2020 02:47 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(11-30-2020 07:13 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  We say we want a guy who will be here a long time.

I've given up on the idea of having a coach for a long time. Truth is that if a P5 school isn't banging on our coach's door with a multi million dollar contract within 4 years, we probably don't want him either. I hate it, but if you want to be a successful G5 school, you'll need to hire a new coach every 3 or 4 years.

As a primary school who has lost a lot of coaches to high level P5 programs, it sucks but it also means the seasons have been pretty damn fun, so it's kind a double edged sword. I wouldn't trade the Orange or Sugar Bowls or this season for a coach who would be 7-9 wins every year for a decade honestly.