Assistant Coach Justin Ingram tweeted out today that TK has a 100% graduation rate in 18 years as a Head Coach. While we would have loved to have seen some NCAA Tournament Bids during this same time, we can't complain about what he has done with the players academically. That statistic probably makes a very good impression on high school players and their parents when TK goes into their homes to recruit them.

That is certainly great. Probably not many in that class!

I'd swap 5% for one visit to the NCAA's. I'm a bad fan.

(11-18-2020 03:11 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  I'd swap 5% for one visit to the NCAA's. I'm a bad fan.

Ditto. It'd be interesting to look back and see Joplin's numbers. Obviously we've been far better academically than in those years.

(11-18-2020 03:43 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 03:11 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  I'd swap 5% for one visit to the NCAA's. I'm a bad fan.

Ditto. It'd be interesting to look back and see Joplin's numbers. Obviously we've been far better academically than in those years.

Can't recall the numbers, but Joplin's academic record was actually pretty strong until the last year. Perhaps someone can verify. Probably not 100-percent, but very strong particularly in relation to the rest of the league at that time.

Good Job Coach K!!! other than NCAA bids he has accomplished a lot and developed a nice program.

Got me interested so googled
UBuffalo MB-Ball APR 982
UToledo MB-Ball APR 979

Both recent.

I imagine similar could be found for other NCAA reps.

Accomplishing both goals apparently not undo-able. The graduation rate of course is nice but in no-way detracts from the other conversation. Athletes have a tough daily schedule, no debating. They also have a support network like no other on campus. Coach K isn't doing the tutoring.

(11-18-2020 03:46 PM)cleveland Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 03:43 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(11-18-2020 03:11 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  I'd swap 5% for one visit to the NCAA's. I'm a bad fan.

Ditto. It'd be interesting to look back and see Joplin's numbers. Obviously we've been far better academically than in those years.

Can't recall the numbers, but Joplin's academic record was actually pretty strong until the last year. Perhaps someone can verify. Probably not 100-percent, but very strong particularly in relation to the rest of the league at that time.

recruited some disinterested or poor students early in head coaching career. got some blowback and improved the academic tutoring and support system and over time developed one of the best academic rankings in the league. his last year was a clusterf*ck of coincidences. one learning disabled recruit got an ncaa waiver but ut didn't admit them-kid ended up starting for a low major ncaa team later on. 2 other recruits, prep school and juco, were in school but had transcript or other academic issues and never got qualified to play by the ncaa. a big incoming class turned into a short bench and the team bombed. then, the spring turnover to cross resulted in a complete overhaul. something like 10 of the 13 scholarship kids on stan's last team didn't graduate from UT, most we're gone before the summer. several others didn't make it through a year with the new coach. and then like 15 of 16 that coach hissssssssssss brought in never remained. the apr tanked and coach k needed a few years to even get the team eligible for post season play.

How are transfers figured into the graduation rate?

Given this news I’m feeling pretty good about the character of athletes we recruit.
https://www.wtol.com/article/sports/foot...hPQo_Anw6I

More of me being bad but my first thought was how stupid do they have to be for that many to get caught?

(11-23-2020 04:10 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  More of me being bad but my first thought was how stupid do they have to be for that many to get caught?

Yeah, I get two or three but 16? “Ah, screw it guys, seasons shot anyways-let’s all get high”.

(11-23-2020 04:29 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(11-23-2020 04:10 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  More of me being bad but my first thought was how stupid do they have to be for that many to get caught?

Yeah, I get two or three but 16? “Ah, screw it guys, seasons shot anyways-let’s all get high”.

Might have been their final exam in "Undecided 101?"

Were they performance enhancing drugs? Because, if they were, well, um...

Also the quote from the coach, to paraphrase ... We have the highest standards, and that includes keeping all our problems secret from everybody. But I guess they failed at that too.

Getting back to the graduation rate, I've been keeping stats for MBB on transfers-in/out, seasons played, etc. for a while now. FYI, here are some statistics from my spreadsheet. (I have the one for Cullop's teams too if anyone is interested.) I am not trying to make any point one way or another with this info, just feel like it is interesting to see how things go in today's college bball. (Note I don't have enough info to say how many players actually graduate. And as always, there may be mistakes in my data.)

Under TK:
Total Number of Players: 87
Inherited Players: 14

Kowalczyk Recruits: 73
High School Recruits: 36
International Recruits: 3
Transfers-In: 15
Walk-Ons: 14
JUCO Transfers: 5

Of TK recruits:
Currently on Active Roster: 14
Completed Eligibility at UT: 22
Transferred Out: 25
Dismissed: 3
Medically Ineligible: 1
Other: 8

Overall Seasons Played:
Players Who Completed 4 Seasons: 9
Avg Seasons Played: 1.5
Avg Seasons Played (just TK recruits): 1.5
Avg Seasons Played (just those No Longer with Team): 1.7

I have always felt that too much credit goes to the coaching staffs.
When in fact, shouldn’t most of that go to the folks in the Academic Support Staff?
A really great dept. for the coaches.

(11-23-2020 10:04 PM)rocket 51 Wrote:  I have always felt that too much credit goes to the coaching staffs.
When in fact, shouldn’t most of that go to the folks in the Academic Support Staff?
A really great dept. for the coaches.

In my experience, both as a student athlete and former athletic department employee, coaches have next to no POSITIVE impact on grades, classroom attendance, and overall graduation/retention of their players. Now, they can definitely have NEGATIVE impacts, that's very well documented. The only way this is impacted by the coach is on the front end by recruiting academically motivated students who are realistic about their post-Rockets careers.

I think a lot of the positive gains within the AD over the last few years with regard to academics HAVE to be attributed to what Ericka Lavender did with the Academic Services program within the AD. It was a shame to lose her, but she went home and got a promotion, so it made sense for her.

(11-24-2020 09:33 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(11-23-2020 10:04 PM)rocket 51 Wrote:  I have always felt that too much credit goes to the coaching staffs.
When in fact, shouldn’t most of that go to the folks in the Academic Support Staff?
A really great dept. for the coaches.

In my experience, both as a student athlete and former athletic department employee, coaches have next to no POSITIVE impact on grades, classroom attendance, and overall graduation/retention of their players. Now, they can definitely have NEGATIVE impacts, that's very well documented. The only way this is impacted by the coach is on the front end by recruiting academically motivated students who are realistic about their post-Rockets careers.

I think a lot of the positive gains within the AD over the last few years with regard to academics HAVE to be attributed to what Ericka Lavender did with the Academic Services program within the AD. It was a shame to lose her, but she went home and got a promotion, so it made sense for her.

I'm not sure about bball but if you missed class for football? You were puking during workouts and missing playing time. So they definately matter! Also, with an entire academic facility just for athletes?!?! That can't friggin hurt.

(11-24-2020 09:33 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(11-23-2020 10:04 PM)rocket 51 Wrote:  I have always felt that too much credit goes to the coaching staffs.
When in fact, shouldn’t most of that go to the folks in the Academic Support Staff?
A really great dept. for the coaches.

In my experience, both as a student athlete and former athletic department employee, coaches have next to no POSITIVE impact on grades, classroom attendance, and overall graduation/retention of their players.

Have been on the teaching end at a University not UToledo when a coaching change occurred, I'd say I had an exactly opposite experience. Most Coaches have influence. Some use it, some it's not their bottom line. Some Coaches have organization. Some don't.

I wouldn't put the primary credit into any Coach/AD, I agree it's the support staff put in place. And that staff is generally in the best interest of the Coach and AD, so no, I don't give them credit for its existence. But a coach definitely can influence the outliers, more-so with an influential stick than carrot.

(11-24-2020 01:44 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(11-24-2020 09:33 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(11-23-2020 10:04 PM)rocket 51 Wrote:  I have always felt that too much credit goes to the coaching staffs.
When in fact, shouldn’t most of that go to the folks in the Academic Support Staff?
A really great dept. for the coaches.

In my experience, both as a student athlete and former athletic department employee, coaches have next to no POSITIVE impact on grades, classroom attendance, and overall graduation/retention of their players.

Have been on the teaching end at a University not UToledo when a coaching change occurred, I'd say I had an exactly opposite experience. Most Coaches have influence. Some use it, some it's not their bottom line. Some Coaches have organization. Some don't.

I wouldn't put the primary credit into any Coach/AD, I agree it's the support staff put in place. And that staff is generally in the best interest of the Coach and AD, so no, I don't give them credit for its existence. But a coach definitely can influence the outliers, more-so with an influential stick than carrot.

Agreed...there are definitely those who care and those who don't, but I wouldn't put coach on the top 5 list of factors for a student athlete's success.