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schmolik Online
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West Virginia's TV Ratings
I'm sure many at this board feel West Virginia would make a good ACC expansion candidate. I don't like them, thinking their academics aren't good enough. You might think of them as a "popular" football brand. Well today I will try to disprove that statement, at least recently.

Last Saturday, West Virginia played in FOX's noon game which is usually their "best" game of the day (I've given it the name the "Big Nooner"). They played TCU. The teams weren't the best in the Big 12 but not the worst. The ratings?

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college...v-ratings/

1.37M with a rating of 0.85 (Below a 1.0)! This was supposed to be FOX's best game?

This was FOX's worst Big Nooner of the season and that's saying something this year because one of the games this year in the slot was Arkansas State at Kansas State and they got 1.79M! You know you suck when Arkansas State outdraws you.

In the noon time slot last Saturday, TCU/WV was outdone by the following games...
Ind/MSU on ABC (2.44M)
Mia/VT on ESPN (1.96M)
PSU/Neb on FS1 (1.72M). Keep in mind Penn State is winless and the game is on FS1, FOX little sister.

And here's some other West Virginia games that aired on either ABC or FOX this year:

9/26 3:30pm WVU-OK ST (ABC) 1.45M
10/3 noon BYLR-WVU (ABC) 1.79M
10/17 noon KU-WVU (FOX) 1.46M
11/7 noon WVU-TEX (ABC) 2.75M

The last game might have been respectable but I'm pretty sure most of that audience was for Texas. When West Virginia plays anyone else in the Big 12, no one's watching. We haven't seen West Virginia play Oklahoma yet. I'll bet it's around the Texas number.

By comparison, some ACC games not involving either Clemson or Notre Dame this season airing on ABC:
9/12, 3:30p GT–FSU 3.52M
9/19, 7:30p MIA-LOU 3.80M
9/19, 3:30p UCF-GT 3.06M
9/26, 7:30p FSU-MIA 2.95M
10/3, 3:30p UNC-BC 1.98M
10/10, Noon VT-UNC 1.66M
10/17, 7:30p UNC-FSU 2.20M

The ACC got higher ratings in September than October. All three bad games involved North Carolina, maybe they're the issue? All of the September games involved a Florida team and only one October game did (and it was the highest of the three October games).

One thing is clear. West Virginia is not an asset to the ACC, at least from a television standpoint. If the ACC were to add WVU, do you think ESPN will give the ACC enough money so that the pieces divided by 15 are equal or greater than they are now? Not a chance. ESPN will be looking at the same numbers you are looking at. Maybe this is one season but look at 2019's or 2018's TV ratings for West Virginia and see if they are any different. WVU isn't going to bring significant extra eyeballs to the ACC. They aren't the football power they used to be.
11-17-2020 05:50 PM
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
(11-17-2020 05:50 PM)schmolik Wrote:  I'm sure many at this board feel West Virginia would make a good ACC expansion candidate. I don't like them, thinking their academics aren't good enough. You might think of them as a "popular" football brand. Well today I will try to disprove that statement, at least recently.

Last Saturday, West Virginia played in FOX's noon game which is usually their "best" game of the day (I've given it the name the "Big Nooner"). They played TCU. The teams weren't the best in the Big 12 but not the worst. The ratings?

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college...v-ratings/

1.37M with a rating of 0.85 (Below a 1.0)! This was supposed to be FOX's best game?

This was FOX's worst Big Nooner of the season and that's saying something this year because one of the games this year in the slot was Arkansas State at Kansas State and they got 1.79M! You know you suck when Arkansas State outdraws you.

In the noon time slot last Saturday, TCU/WV was outdone by the following games...
Ind/MSU on ABC (2.44M)
Mia/VT on ESPN (1.96M)
PSU/Neb on FS1 (1.72M). Keep in mind Penn State is winless and the game is on FS1, FOX little sister.

And here's some other West Virginia games that aired on either ABC or FOX this year:

9/26 3:30pm WVU-OK ST (ABC) 1.45M
10/3 noon BYLR-WVU (ABC) 1.79M
10/17 noon KU-WVU (FOX) 1.46M
11/7 noon WVU-TEX (ABC) 2.75M

The last game might have been respectable but I'm pretty sure most of that audience was for Texas. When West Virginia plays anyone else in the Big 12, no one's watching. We haven't seen West Virginia play Oklahoma yet. I'll bet it's around the Texas number.

By comparison, some ACC games not involving either Clemson or Notre Dame this season airing on ABC:
9/12, 3:30p GT–FSU 3.52M
9/19, 7:30p MIA-LOU 3.80M
9/19, 3:30p UCF-GT 3.06M
9/26, 7:30p FSU-MIA 2.95M
10/3, 3:30p UNC-BC 1.98M
10/10, Noon VT-UNC 1.66M
10/17, 7:30p UNC-FSU 2.20M

The ACC got higher ratings in September than October. All three bad games involved North Carolina, maybe they're the issue? All of the September games involved a Florida team and only one October game did (and it was the highest of the three October games).

One thing is clear. West Virginia is not an asset to the ACC, at least from a television standpoint. If the ACC were to add WVU, do you think ESPN will give the ACC enough money so that the pieces divided by 15 are equal or greater than they are now? Not a chance. ESPN will be looking at the same numbers you are looking at. Maybe this is one season but look at 2019's or 2018's TV ratings for West Virginia and see if they are any different. WVU isn't going to bring significant extra eyeballs to the ACC. They aren't the football power they used to be.

While WV usually puts out a good product on the field, I think their biggest problem on tv is that they come from a small state which gives them a small base to draw eyeballs from. I believe WV's tv numbers are much better when the team is highly ranked. A lot also depends on what other games are being played at the same time slot. WV got pretty good tv ratings in the old BE, if I remember correctly. But they were playing games that had some national interests when playing their natural rivalries. Not sure if there is a lot of national interest in watching WV vs Kansas St or WV vs Baylor etc... unless one or both teams are having a good season and ranked pretty good.
11-17-2020 06:13 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
WVU's appeal in the Big East wasn't their own fans tuning in to watch them win, but opposing fans tuning in to watch them lose. WVU was the villain of the Big East.
11-17-2020 06:33 PM
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WesternSkillet Online
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
I'm an outsider. Here is my quick take on WVU and the ACC.

Pros...
Good geographic fit.
Annual games against Pitt and Syracuse.

Cons....
Cultural fit.
Academic fit.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using CSNbbs mobile app
11-17-2020 06:43 PM
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random asian guy Offline
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
I like WVU. They are a good rival of VT.

Having said that, I don’t want them to be in the ACC. Pitt and VT pretty cover thier market. I don’t neee to mention their academics and fan behavior.

To me they are like ECU. A good regional school with some rivalry with the ACC schools (like NCSU) but no real chance to join the ACC.
11-17-2020 06:54 PM
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CrazyPaco Offline
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
(11-17-2020 05:50 PM)schmolik Wrote:  I'm sure many at this board feel West Virginia would make a good ACC expansion candidate. I don't like them, thinking their academics aren't good enough. You might think of them as a "popular" football brand. Well today I will try to disprove that statement, at least recently.

Last Saturday, West Virginia played in FOX's noon game which is usually their "best" game of the day (I've given it the name the "Big Nooner"). They played TCU. The teams weren't the best in the Big 12 but not the worst. The ratings?

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college...v-ratings/

1.37M with a rating of 0.85 (Below a 1.0)! This was supposed to be FOX's best game?

This was FOX's worst Big Nooner of the season and that's saying something this year because one of the games this year in the slot was Arkansas State at Kansas State and they got 1.79M! You know you suck when Arkansas State outdraws you.

In the noon time slot last Saturday, TCU/WV was outdone by the following games...
Ind/MSU on ABC (2.44M)
Mia/VT on ESPN (1.96M)
PSU/Neb on FS1 (1.72M). Keep in mind Penn State is winless and the game is on FS1, FOX little sister.

And here's some other West Virginia games that aired on either ABC or FOX this year:

9/26 3:30pm WVU-OK ST (ABC) 1.45M
10/3 noon BYLR-WVU (ABC) 1.79M
10/17 noon KU-WVU (FOX) 1.46M
11/7 noon WVU-TEX (ABC) 2.75M

The last game might have been respectable but I'm pretty sure most of that audience was for Texas. When West Virginia plays anyone else in the Big 12, no one's watching. We haven't seen West Virginia play Oklahoma yet. I'll bet it's around the Texas number.

By comparison, some ACC games not involving either Clemson or Notre Dame this season airing on ABC:
9/12, 3:30p GT–FSU 3.52M
9/19, 7:30p MIA-LOU 3.80M
9/19, 3:30p UCF-GT 3.06M
9/26, 7:30p FSU-MIA 2.95M
10/3, 3:30p UNC-BC 1.98M
10/10, Noon VT-UNC 1.66M
10/17, 7:30p UNC-FSU 2.20M

The ACC got higher ratings in September than October. All three bad games involved North Carolina, maybe they're the issue? All of the September games involved a Florida team and only one October game did (and it was the highest of the three October games).

One thing is clear. West Virginia is not an asset to the ACC, at least from a television standpoint. If the ACC were to add WVU, do you think ESPN will give the ACC enough money so that the pieces divided by 15 are equal or greater than they are now? Not a chance. ESPN will be looking at the same numbers you are looking at. Maybe this is one season but look at 2019's or 2018's TV ratings for West Virginia and see if they are any different. WVU isn't going to bring significant extra eyeballs to the ACC. They aren't the football power they used to be.

They've never had comparably good ratings. Small and very poor state. Not a huge alumni base. Not enough of a national name to pull in casual sports viewers on their own. Simply not the numbers or demographics TV is looking for.
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2020 01:13 AM by CrazyPaco.)
11-18-2020 01:10 AM
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Statefan Offline
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
Right now, over half of West Virginia's students come from out of state. I'm sure that is to keep the University afloat, but it's different from all other ACC publics.
11-18-2020 10:07 AM
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YouPeople Offline
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
ESPN loves WVU....they will NOT allow them to fall to the AAC if the XII dissolves or partners with the PAC.

They will put them in the ACC no matter what these numbers say.
11-18-2020 03:55 PM
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
(11-18-2020 03:55 PM)YouPeople Wrote:  ESPN loves WVU....they will NOT allow them to fall to the AAC if the XII dissolves or partners with the PAC.

They will put them in the ACC no matter what these numbers say.

The ACC doesn't want them. The only way they will accept them is if ESPN makes it worthwhile meaning they pay them enough to do so and does that make sense (or CENTS) to do so?
11-18-2020 03:58 PM
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
(11-18-2020 03:58 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(11-18-2020 03:55 PM)YouPeople Wrote:  ESPN loves WVU....they will NOT allow them to fall to the AAC if the XII dissolves or partners with the PAC.

They will put them in the ACC no matter what these numbers say.

The ACC doesn't want them. The only way they will accept them is if ESPN makes it worthwhile meaning they pay them enough to do so and does that make sense (or CENTS) to do so?

Could they try their hand at Independence if they can't slide into a Power Conference?
11-18-2020 04:15 PM
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YouPeople Offline
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
It's no longer about what "the ACC wants" but rather what ESPN wants as they own the ACC (and SEC). WVU is much too valuable to ESPN to have the Eers relegated to the AAC as opposed to the ACC or SEC. I'll address the SEC in a second.

Here is what you need to follow in order for WVU to land in the ACC. First, ND has to stay independent til at least 2024. That is the MOST influential piece to this puzzle. If ND says they want to either stay in the ACC or come back before 2024, you can bet ND will decide who, if anyone, comes along with them. If this happens, WVU will undoubtedly be out of the running to EVER join the ACC. ND wants absolutely nothing to do with WVU for a myriad of reasons.

The reason 2024 is important is because that is when the XII will have figured out what they are going to do. For the sake of discussion, let's say ND tells the ACC they have no plans to remain full time or come back before 2024. If that happens, all eyes will be on the XII.

Right now Oklahoma hates their home in the XII and will likely try to hop out and head to the SEC along with Okie State. The SEC, also owned by ESPN, will be tickled pink at the thought of having both in their conference. That puts the SEC at 16 members where they will remain. Football in the SEC will be strengthened and you can bet ESPN will make the other 14 SEC members richer by adding the Sooners and Pokes.

Since ESPN will no longer be required to pay nothing-happening schools like Tex Tech, Kansas, K State, Iowa State etc BIG TIME money....they can instead put that money into the SEC ( and the ACC) where they will yield a higher return. You can bet an Okie State vs Auburn match up will get higher ratings than Okie State vs Iowa State. So suddenly, OU and Okie State are more valuable to ESPN simply because of who they are playing.

So what about Texas? First of all, there is no way they will entertain the idea of following Aggie and OU to the SEC. That isn't their style not to mention they view the SEC being beneath them academically. So ask yourself, what makes the most financial sense for Texas and ESPN? Given Texas is married to ESPN via The Longhorn Network (LHN), you can bet they aren't jumping to the B1G or PAC as they are in bed with FOX. That idea is DOA.

So how can Texas keep the LHN and not follow Aggie and OU? The ONLY way is to join the ACC with the same arrangement ND has today. This allows them to a) keep the LHN b) keep their other sports in an ESPN owned conference and c) toot their horns (pun intended) about being independent. So why won't they just join the ACC full time? Because they don't have to...and football independence is sexier than playing in the ACC....especially after all your neighbors ran off to the SEC.

ESPN will then place Baylor or TCU into the ACC as full time members. By doing so, ESPN gets the ACCN into Texas which is a HUGE revenue boost for ESPN and more importantly the ACC. ESPN will then have both the SECN and ACCN in The Lone Star state.

With Texas as a partial and Baylor/TCU as #15.......WVU has to land somewhere as the remnants of the XII look to land somewhere. That's why I go back to ESPN coveting WVU and making sure they land in one of their two conferences. With OU and Okie State joining the SEC, the obvious landing spot is back in their old neighborhood with Cuse, Pitt, VT and Lville. And you know what? ESPN will be able to afford making the ACC whole because the ACCN is going to get a big boost from being in Texas and getting 5 UT games vs the ACC. Just as an OU match up with LSU is more valuable than OU vs Tex Tech, a WVU vs VT game is worth more than WVU vs Kansas State. Not because WVU is any different ...but rather because of who they are playing. Regional rivalries drive interest which is why WVU's TV numbers are hurt by playing 1000 miles away from home.

In closing, if the XII kisses and makes up with each other and decides to stick together, then WVU is going to stay there. The ACC is not going to pursue WVU as long as there is a XII. If the XII blows up before 2024 and ND wants to stay independent, ESPN will find away to retain its most valuable football properties....those being Texas and OU. Okie State will go along with OU due to politics. Baylor/TCU because they will get the ACCN in the state of Texas.....and WVU because geography, value and improving ACC football.
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2020 06:30 PM by YouPeople.)
11-18-2020 05:19 PM
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domer1978 Online
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Post: #12
RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
Yeah one thing in that post is right we want NOTHING to do with WVU.
The other stuff seems incredibly pie in the sky. Texas and the ACC? No. Nevemind what Deloss Dodds said that ain't happening.
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2020 07:57 AM by domer1978.)
11-18-2020 07:02 PM
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
(11-18-2020 07:02 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Yeah one thing in that post is right we want NOTHING to do with WVU.
The other stuff seems incredibly pie in the sky. Texas and the ACC? No. Nevemind what Deliss Dodds say that ain't happening.

Follow the money.
11-19-2020 07:46 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
(11-18-2020 07:02 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Yeah one thing in that post is right we want NOTHING to do with WVU.
The other stuff seems incredibly pie in the sky. Texas and the ACC? No. Nevemind what Deloss Dodds said that ain't happening.

Texas won't make the first move, but IF OU/OSU leave the Big XII (stay with the premise!), the Longhorns' options then become:

1. follow TAMU and OU to the SEC (PR nightmare)
2. joint Big Ten or Pac-12 (besides killing recruiting, those are Fox properties)
3. stay in a weak 8-team Big XII (risk losing "power" status)
4. football independent w/ ACC scheduling agreement (like ND)

If you were running Texas, which would YOU choose?
11-19-2020 01:46 PM
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domer1978 Online
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
(11-19-2020 01:46 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(11-18-2020 07:02 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Yeah one thing in that post is right we want NOTHING to do with WVU.
The other stuff seems incredibly pie in the sky. Texas and the ACC? No. Nevemind what Deloss Dodds said that ain't happening.

Texas won't make the first move, but IF OU/OSU leave the Big XII (stay with the premise!), the Longhorns' options then become:

1. follow TAMU and OU to the SEC (PR nightmare)
2. joint Big Ten or Pac-12 (besides killing recruiting, those are Fox properties)
3. stay in a weak 8-team Big XII (risk losing "power" status)
4. football independent w/ ACC scheduling agreement (like ND)

If you were running Texas, which would YOU choose?

What I would do and what big Tex are two different things. I would go independent, but that is not a Texas thing.

I believe the most logical scenario to play out is the Big 12 carries on. Texas is making money hand over fist and so is Oklahoma. They control that conference and get whatever they want..
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2020 01:54 PM by domer1978.)
11-19-2020 01:53 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
(11-19-2020 01:53 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 01:46 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(11-18-2020 07:02 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Yeah one thing in that post is right we want NOTHING to do with WVU.
The other stuff seems incredibly pie in the sky. Texas and the ACC? No. Nevemind what Deloss Dodds said that ain't happening.

Texas won't make the first move, but IF OU/OSU leave the Big XII (stay with the premise!), the Longhorns' options then become:

1. follow TAMU and OU to the SEC (PR nightmare)
2. joint Big Ten or Pac-12 (besides killing recruiting, those are Fox properties)
3. stay in a weak 8-team Big XII (risk losing "power" status)
4. football independent w/ ACC scheduling agreement (like ND)

If you were running Texas, which would YOU choose?

What I would do and what big Tex are two different things. I would go independent, but that is not a Texas thing.

I believe the most logical scenario to play out is the Big 12 carries on. Texas is making money hand over fist and so is Oklahoma. They control that conference and get whatever they want..

So you deny the premise - fair enough. It may never happen... but if it does, Texas to the ACC is a definite possibility, IMO.
11-19-2020 02:29 PM
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
(11-19-2020 01:46 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(11-18-2020 07:02 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Yeah one thing in that post is right we want NOTHING to do with WVU.
The other stuff seems incredibly pie in the sky. Texas and the ACC? No. Nevemind what Deloss Dodds said that ain't happening.

Texas won't make the first move, but IF OU/OSU leave the Big XII (stay with the premise!), the Longhorns' options then become:

1. follow TAMU and OU to the SEC (PR nightmare)
2. joint Big Ten or Pac-12 (besides killing recruiting, those are Fox properties)
3. stay in a weak 8-team Big XII (risk losing "power" status)
4. football independent w/ ACC scheduling agreement (like ND)

If you were running Texas, which would YOU choose?

how long have I been saying this ...
in which you pooh-poohed ...

COME AROUND TO MY WAY OF THINKING
11-19-2020 02:29 PM
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
What kind of ratings did WVU draw when they were playing Pitt, Miami, and VT yearly? That would be a more apt comparison than the ratings they draw playing schools they have no history with.
11-19-2020 02:40 PM
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schmolik Online
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
(11-19-2020 01:46 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(11-18-2020 07:02 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Yeah one thing in that post is right we want NOTHING to do with WVU.
The other stuff seems incredibly pie in the sky. Texas and the ACC? No. Nevemind what Deloss Dodds said that ain't happening.

Texas won't make the first move, but IF OU/OSU leave the Big XII (stay with the premise!), the Longhorns' options then become:

1. follow TAMU and OU to the SEC (PR nightmare)
2. joint Big Ten or Pac-12 (besides killing recruiting, those are Fox properties)
3. stay in a weak 8-team Big XII (risk losing "power" status)
4. football independent w/ ACC scheduling agreement (like ND)

If you were running Texas, which would YOU choose?

I would think the SEC would check in to see if Texas wants in before inviting Oklahoma State along with Oklahoma. The only way I see Oklahoma State going in with Oklahoma is if it is clear Texas won't go to the SEC or if it is part of a multiple team invitation where Texas demands Texas Tech and the SEC accepts (which I think could happen). I doubt the SEC will invite Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and then go to Texas and ask them if they want in, they will invite Oklahoma and ask then ask Texas if they want in. If I'm the SEC, I want the two big guns without the baggage. If neither is willing to come without their baggage (Oklahoma State, Texas Tech), I'd have to think about it.

I don't see how FOX is a negative. Big Ten schools don't seem to be hurting right now.
11-19-2020 03:07 PM
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RE: West Virginia's TV Ratings
(11-19-2020 01:53 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 01:46 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(11-18-2020 07:02 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Yeah one thing in that post is right we want NOTHING to do with WVU.
The other stuff seems incredibly pie in the sky. Texas and the ACC? No. Nevemind what Deloss Dodds said that ain't happening.

Texas won't make the first move, but IF OU/OSU leave the Big XII (stay with the premise!), the Longhorns' options then become:

1. follow TAMU and OU to the SEC (PR nightmare)
2. joint Big Ten or Pac-12 (besides killing recruiting, those are Fox properties)
3. stay in a weak 8-team Big XII (risk losing "power" status)
4. football independent w/ ACC scheduling agreement (like ND)

If you were running Texas, which would YOU choose?

What I would do and what big Tex are two different things. I would go independent, but that is not a Texas thing.

I believe the most logical scenario to play out is the Big 12 carries on. Texas is making money hand over fist and so is Oklahoma. They control that conference and get whatever they want..


OU is not happy in the XII.

If you think Texas going independent isn't their thing....what do you propose they do? They sure as hell aren't going to the SEC and they aren't going to be allowed to keep the LHN should they join the B1G. So the B1G is out.

Being an Indy would only increase their snobbery within the state....which is definitely a Texas thing.
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2020 03:49 PM by YouPeople.)
11-19-2020 03:47 PM
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