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Somebody Had to Say It
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #21
RE: Somebody Had to Say It
I really miss seeing peoples faces. Particularly the pretty females in the stores.

Its strangely exciting just seeing one adjust her mask and getting tiny glimpse of her face. Its that absurd now.

What a twisted world and time we are in. The human race has survived thousands of years without the whole world needing to cover their faces.
(This post was last modified: 11-17-2020 01:22 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
11-17-2020 01:20 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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Post: #22
Somebody Had to Say It
(11-17-2020 12:25 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 12:12 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  That and when you go from testing 500K a day over 1.5 Million there is going to be more positives. Over 170 Million tests have been reported as administered. I know some are duplicate tests but that is 1/2 of the population of the USA. I find that hard to believe.

Of all those how many are false positives. I read somewhere where this dude took 4 tests for Chiflu and 2 came out positive and 2 came out negative in a short period of time. There should be two tests administered and then go from there. And don't say it's too expensive, if the Dems were able to waste 40 million on a fake impeachment we can spend just as much for the welfare of the country. Afterall, I'm sure everyone wants to gather with their family and perhaps this would make Dem officials aka Dictators happy and let us gather peacefully. 03-wink


Elon Musk. I think it was in 24 hr period he did 4 tests.

2 cane in neg, 2 came in pos. He’s not a nobody going to Walgreens either.
11-17-2020 01:32 PM
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MileHighBronco Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Somebody Had to Say It
Horowitz: Pro-mask study withdrawn after virus spread in counties analyzed by researchers

Quote:Call it the divine rule of masks. You shall not utter a negative word about them. You shall never question their effectiveness, even when they've failed to work for six months. You shall never be caught without the idol on your face – even on the face of your two-year-old, for that matter. You shall worship the cloth until the bitter end.

It doesn't take a scientist to see that masks don't work. The experience of unprecedented universal mask-wearing for months – even in places that had few COVID cases to begin with but then skyrocketed after mask use – demonstrates that the idea of wearing a mask to block a respiratory virus is sheer lunacy. Yet one group of researchers tried to cherry-pick data from a selected counties to show that cases dropped after the mask mandate, without any regard for the fact that each wave only lasts for about 6-8 weeks in a given area before dissipating – regardless of what actions are taken by the local population. Then it comes back a few times until everyone has been exposed to the virus.

On October 23, researchers from MIT and the University of California San Francisco published a preprint study titled, "Decrease in Hospitalizations for COVID-19 after Mask Mandates in 1083 U.S. Counties." Somehow, we were to believe that these counties bucked the worldwide trend of cases spiking after a mask mandate. In reality, these were merely counties that likely already peaked in terms of the viral reproduction rate by the time the mandate was in place, so the cases were destined to drop anyway. That is, until the next natural wave.

On November 4, they were forced to withdraw the study "because there are increased rates of SARS- CoV-2 cases in the areas that we originally analyzed in this study." Oops. I guess the masks worked until they didn't.

https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-...esearchers
11-17-2020 02:11 PM
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cosine4 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Somebody Had to Say It
(11-17-2020 01:08 PM)fsquid Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 01:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 12:30 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's be honest, where have you been that everyone is masked?


Nearly everyone is mask anywhere I go and has been for months.

damn, guess we are different in Florida.

It is an oddity to see people without a mask around here (Sarasota/Manatee counties).
11-17-2020 02:25 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Somebody Had to Say It
College campuses around here (Atlanta) have the vast majority with masks.

Otherwise outside there are only a few weirdos wearing masks. Plus the beggars at the street corners usually wear masks.

Most stores almost everyone is wearing masks. But nobody in the auto parts store.

Restaurants are hit and miss. Some have masked waiters and patrons (until they get to the table). Others have mostly unmasked patrons.
11-17-2020 02:32 PM
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DtownBronco Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Somebody Had to Say It
Hopefully we will find out soon with some empirically drawn conclusions from a Danish study that looked at the use of masks in real-world applications. Much of what that we have seen published and used as talking points to support differing agendas to date has been extrapolated from precisely controlled laboratory studies.

Face masks: what the data say

Long but good read. From the last paragraph:

Quote:Nevertheless, most scientists are confident that they can say something prescriptive about wearing masks. It’s not the only solution, says Gandhi, “but I think it is a profoundly important pillar of pandemic control”. As Digard puts it: “Masks work, but they are not infallible. And, therefore, keep your distance.”

This I agree with... Somebody posted on here that the best defense against any airborne pathogen is distance and gravity.

Final data projected to come in this month with results to follow. Clinicatrials.gov is tracking the study and as of today no results have been published.

Reduction in COVID-19 Infection Using Surgical Facial Masks Outside the Healthcare System
11-17-2020 02:54 PM
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ShrackUAB Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Somebody Had to Say It
Outside of about a 2 week period earlier this year, most areas only have like 30-50% of people wearing masks in central Alabama except in stores that absolutely make you put one on, even though some people just take them off when they get inside (like Target).

I went to Gatlinburg, TN about a month ago to check out a building I own. There were huge crowds and maybe 30% of people wearing masks
11-17-2020 03:22 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Somebody Had to Say It
(11-17-2020 01:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 12:30 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's be honest, where have you been that everyone is masked?


Nearly everyone is mask anywhere I go and has been for months. And I live in the Memphis area.

The rate in Walmart or Kroger is virtually 100% no matter which stores I go to or where.

Same here. You have to wear one going into the gym then you can take it off as you please hilarious.
11-17-2020 04:48 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Somebody Had to Say It
(11-17-2020 01:08 PM)fsquid Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 01:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 12:30 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's be honest, where have you been that everyone is masked?


Nearly everyone is mask anywhere I go and has been for months.

damn, guess we are different in Florida.

03-lmfao

You just NOW figuring that out?!?

When I'm in Kroger or Lowe's etc., it's near 100%. It's a one-off when some guy comes in clearly not in possession of a mask.

Bothers me zippo.
11-17-2020 04:58 PM
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fsquid Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Somebody Had to Say It
(11-17-2020 04:58 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 01:08 PM)fsquid Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 01:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 12:30 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's be honest, where have you been that everyone is masked?


Nearly everyone is mask anywhere I go and has been for months.

damn, guess we are different in Florida.

03-lmfao

You just NOW figuring that out?!?

When I'm in Kroger or Lowe's etc., it's near 100%. It's a one-off when some guy comes in clearly not in possession of a mask.

Bothers me zippo.
Frankly thought Florida would reflect the SEC states

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11-17-2020 05:00 PM
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DtownBronco Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Somebody Had to Say It
(11-17-2020 02:54 PM)DtownBronco Wrote:  Hopefully we will find out soon with some empirically drawn conclusions from a Danish study that looked at the use of masks in real-world applications. Much of what that we have seen published and used as talking points to support differing agendas to date has been extrapolated from precisely controlled laboratory studies.

Face masks: what the data say

Long but good read. From the last paragraph:

Quote:Nevertheless, most scientists are confident that they can say something prescriptive about wearing masks. It’s not the only solution, says Gandhi, “but I think it is a profoundly important pillar of pandemic control”. As Digard puts it: “Masks work, but they are not infallible. And, therefore, keep your distance.”

This I agree with... Somebody posted on here that the best defense against any airborne pathogen is distance and gravity.

Final data projected to come in this month with results to follow. Clinicatrials.gov is tracking the study and as of today no results have been published.

Reduction in COVID-19 Infection Using Surgical Facial Masks Outside the Healthcare System

ACP has released results.

Effectiveness of Adding a Mask Recommendation to Other Public Health Measures to Prevent SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Danish Mask Wearers - A Randomized Controlled Trial

Quote:Results:
A total of 3030 participants were randomly assigned to the recommendation to wear masks, and 2994 were assigned to control; 4862 completed the study. Infection with SARS-CoV-2 occurred in 42 participants recommended masks (1.8%) and 53 control participants (2.1%). The between-group difference was −0.3 percentage point (95% CI, −1.2 to 0.4 percentage point; P = 0.38) (odds ratio, 0.82 [CI, 0.54 to 1.23]; P = 0.33). Multiple imputation accounting for loss to follow-up yielded similar results. Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIs are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection.

Quote:Conclusion:
The recommendation to wear surgical masks to supplement other public health measures did not reduce the SARS-CoV-2 infection rate among wearers by more than 50% in a community with modest infection rates, some degree of social distancing, and uncommon general mask use. The data were compatible with lesser degrees of self-protection.

So, according to the real-world study. Mask effectiveness ranges anywhere from a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in likelihood of contracting SARS-CoV-2, when compared to a control group of non-mask wearers. In other words, for people outside of an operating room or laboratory environment, not trained in proper mask application and maintenance, masks don't make a damn bit of difference!
11-18-2020 11:35 AM
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umbluegray Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Somebody Had to Say It
(11-17-2020 12:30 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's be honest, where have you been that everyone is masked?

Any place in Memphis/Shelby County TN.

Signs at the door of every place of business state you can not enter without a mask per Shelby County mandate.

Those signs do NOT include the exemption caveat.

Here's the text of the mandate: https://www.shelbytnhealth.com/DocumentC...OVID%2D19.

Section 1.(b) states:

Quote:Face coverings shall be worn at all times by members of the public except as specifically exemptedherein.

SECTION 2. EXEMPTIONS

Quote:A face covering is not required in the following settings and circumstances:

© By persons who cannot medically tolerate wearing a face covering. No person,
declining to wear a face covering because of a medical condition shall be required to produce verifying medical documentation;

My friend who was hospitalized with COVID and double-pneumonia carries a copy with him because he medically cannot wear a mask.

Even when he points out the exemption documented in the mandate he is denied entry to most places.

He has even been harassed by people for not wearing a mask the few times he was allowed to enter.
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2020 11:48 AM by umbluegray.)
11-18-2020 11:40 AM
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Post: #33
RE: Somebody Had to Say It
(11-18-2020 11:35 AM)DtownBronco Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 02:54 PM)DtownBronco Wrote:  Hopefully we will find out soon with some empirically drawn conclusions from a Danish study that looked at the use of masks in real-world applications. Much of what that we have seen published and used as talking points to support differing agendas to date has been extrapolated from precisely controlled laboratory studies.

Face masks: what the data say

Long but good read. From the last paragraph:

Quote:Nevertheless, most scientists are confident that they can say something prescriptive about wearing masks. It’s not the only solution, says Gandhi, “but I think it is a profoundly important pillar of pandemic control”. As Digard puts it: “Masks work, but they are not infallible. And, therefore, keep your distance.”

This I agree with... Somebody posted on here that the best defense against any airborne pathogen is distance and gravity.

Final data projected to come in this month with results to follow. Clinicatrials.gov is tracking the study and as of today no results have been published.

Reduction in COVID-19 Infection Using Surgical Facial Masks Outside the Healthcare System

ACP has released results.

Effectiveness of Adding a Mask Recommendation to Other Public Health Measures to Prevent SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Danish Mask Wearers - A Randomized Controlled Trial

Quote:Results:
A total of 3030 participants were randomly assigned to the recommendation to wear masks, and 2994 were assigned to control; 4862 completed the study. Infection with SARS-CoV-2 occurred in 42 participants recommended masks (1.8%) and 53 control participants (2.1%). The between-group difference was −0.3 percentage point (95% CI, −1.2 to 0.4 percentage point; P = 0.38) (odds ratio, 0.82 [CI, 0.54 to 1.23]; P = 0.33). Multiple imputation accounting for loss to follow-up yielded similar results. Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIs are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection.

Quote:Conclusion:
The recommendation to wear surgical masks to supplement other public health measures did not reduce the SARS-CoV-2 infection rate among wearers by more than 50% in a community with modest infection rates, some degree of social distancing, and uncommon general mask use. The data were compatible with lesser degrees of self-protection.

So, according to the real-world study. Mask effectiveness ranges anywhere from a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in likelihood of contracting SARS-CoV-2, when compared to a control group of non-mask wearers. In other words, for people outside of an operating room or laboratory environment, not trained in proper mask application and maintenance, masks don't make a damn bit of difference!

While masks are contribute to both individual protection and source control the use as source control has shown to be much more effective. I personally think the CDC mask guidelines talk up personal protection too much, but I get that they want to encourage as much mask usage as possible.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4873718/

When the mask wearer has covid the distance and volume of respiratory droplet projection is reduced. The study you quoted above seemed to study masks not as a source control, but as a method of individual protection. Masks may proved some level of individual protection, but the primary goal of mask mandates is source control. Protect others by wearing a mask.

The limitations of the study you quoted above calls out "and no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others". So it only looks at individual protection and not source control.
11-18-2020 11:48 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Somebody Had to Say It
(11-18-2020 11:35 AM)DtownBronco Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 02:54 PM)DtownBronco Wrote:  Hopefully we will find out soon with some empirically drawn conclusions from a Danish study that looked at the use of masks in real-world applications. Much of what that we have seen published and used as talking points to support differing agendas to date has been extrapolated from precisely controlled laboratory studies.

Face masks: what the data say

Long but good read. From the last paragraph:

Quote:Nevertheless, most scientists are confident that they can say something prescriptive about wearing masks. It’s not the only solution, says Gandhi, “but I think it is a profoundly important pillar of pandemic control”. As Digard puts it: “Masks work, but they are not infallible. And, therefore, keep your distance.”

This I agree with... Somebody posted on here that the best defense against any airborne pathogen is distance and gravity.

Final data projected to come in this month with results to follow. Clinicatrials.gov is tracking the study and as of today no results have been published.

Reduction in COVID-19 Infection Using Surgical Facial Masks Outside the Healthcare System

ACP has released results.

Effectiveness of Adding a Mask Recommendation to Other Public Health Measures to Prevent SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Danish Mask Wearers - A Randomized Controlled Trial

Quote:Results:
A total of 3030 participants were randomly assigned to the recommendation to wear masks, and 2994 were assigned to control; 4862 completed the study. Infection with SARS-CoV-2 occurred in 42 participants recommended masks (1.8%) and 53 control participants (2.1%). The between-group difference was −0.3 percentage point (95% CI, −1.2 to 0.4 percentage point; P = 0.38) (odds ratio, 0.82 [CI, 0.54 to 1.23]; P = 0.33). Multiple imputation accounting for loss to follow-up yielded similar results. Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIs are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection.

Quote:Conclusion:
The recommendation to wear surgical masks to supplement other public health measures did not reduce the SARS-CoV-2 infection rate among wearers by more than 50% in a community with modest infection rates, some degree of social distancing, and uncommon general mask use. The data were compatible with lesser degrees of self-protection.

So, according to the real-world study. Mask effectiveness ranges anywhere from a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in likelihood of contracting SARS-CoV-2, when compared to a control group of non-mask wearers. In other words, for people outside of an operating room or laboratory environment, not trained in proper mask application and maintenance, masks don't make a damn bit of difference!

I suspect, using nothing more than common sense, that the loose fitting cloth masks widely in use due little to stop the virus beyond redirecting the virus. So, if you are socially distanced and talking without a mask---the virus probably has a better shot of drifiting toward the person to which you are speaking. With the mask on--its probably redirected out of the sides/top/bottom of the mask. Thus, the exhaled virus is not being wafted directly at the person you are facing. If there are several people standing around the two people speaking---the mask probably is not doing much to protect those bystanders. Air escapes the mask---I mean, its the same reason many people wearing glasses will have issues with their glasses fogging up when they wear the mask. That air is going somewhere, and the virus is small enough to go through the fibers and unsealed points of the mask.

So, I could see it helping when people are in relatively close proximity and communicating. However, at places like a grocery store--where people are walking up and down aisles passing one another, often stopping at a shelf---occupying the same space that was just occupied by someone else---then any virus that was shot upward or out the sides of the mask by people previously in that space could easily be inhaled. Thus, the masks wont make a darn bit of difference in that type of situation.

In short, there is a reason healthcare professionals are not wearing loose fitting fabric masks. So, finding that cloth masks arent really all that effective should not be a surprise. I suspect they help marginally, mostly when you have two people talking while facing each other.
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2020 11:57 AM by Attackcoog.)
11-18-2020 11:50 AM
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DtownBronco Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Somebody Had to Say It
(11-18-2020 11:48 AM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  
(11-18-2020 11:35 AM)DtownBronco Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 02:54 PM)DtownBronco Wrote:  Hopefully we will find out soon with some empirically drawn conclusions from a Danish study that looked at the use of masks in real-world applications. Much of what that we have seen published and used as talking points to support differing agendas to date has been extrapolated from precisely controlled laboratory studies.

Face masks: what the data say

Long but good read. From the last paragraph:

Quote:Nevertheless, most scientists are confident that they can say something prescriptive about wearing masks. It’s not the only solution, says Gandhi, “but I think it is a profoundly important pillar of pandemic control”. As Digard puts it: “Masks work, but they are not infallible. And, therefore, keep your distance.”

This I agree with... Somebody posted on here that the best defense against any airborne pathogen is distance and gravity.

Final data projected to come in this month with results to follow. Clinicatrials.gov is tracking the study and as of today no results have been published.

Reduction in COVID-19 Infection Using Surgical Facial Masks Outside the Healthcare System

ACP has released results.

Effectiveness of Adding a Mask Recommendation to Other Public Health Measures to Prevent SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Danish Mask Wearers - A Randomized Controlled Trial

Quote:Results:
A total of 3030 participants were randomly assigned to the recommendation to wear masks, and 2994 were assigned to control; 4862 completed the study. Infection with SARS-CoV-2 occurred in 42 participants recommended masks (1.8%) and 53 control participants (2.1%). The between-group difference was −0.3 percentage point (95% CI, −1.2 to 0.4 percentage point; P = 0.38) (odds ratio, 0.82 [CI, 0.54 to 1.23]; P = 0.33). Multiple imputation accounting for loss to follow-up yielded similar results. Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIs are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection.

Quote:Conclusion:
The recommendation to wear surgical masks to supplement other public health measures did not reduce the SARS-CoV-2 infection rate among wearers by more than 50% in a community with modest infection rates, some degree of social distancing, and uncommon general mask use. The data were compatible with lesser degrees of self-protection.

So, according to the real-world study. Mask effectiveness ranges anywhere from a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in likelihood of contracting SARS-CoV-2, when compared to a control group of non-mask wearers. In other words, for people outside of an operating room or laboratory environment, not trained in proper mask application and maintenance, masks don't make a damn bit of difference!

While masks are contribute to both individual protection and source control the use as source control has shown to be much more effective. I personally think the CDC mask guidelines talk up personal protection too much, but I get that they want to encourage as much mask usage as possible.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4873718/

When the mask wearer has covid the distance and volume of respiratory droplet projection is reduced. The study you quoted above seemed to study masks not as a source control, but as a method of individual protection. Masks may proved some level of individual protection, but the primary goal of mask mandates is source control. Protect others by wearing a mask.

The limitations of the study you quoted above calls out "and no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others". So it only looks at individual protection and not source control.

Agreed, individual protection and source control are two different issues. I question though whether or not Joe Public understands the difference. Too often what is spun up in the media is that "masks save lives" and it seems that most people assume the life being saved is oneself. I like the study because it helps to debunk the narrative that masks are a magic bullet to protect us as individuals from infection. Sadly, unlike seatbelts, telling people to wear a mask to protect others isn't as easy to sell.
11-18-2020 12:05 PM
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fsquid Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Somebody Had to Say It
(11-18-2020 11:40 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 12:30 PM)fsquid Wrote:  Let's be honest, where have you been that everyone is masked?

Any place in Memphis/Shelby County TN.

Signs at the door of every place of business state you can not enter without a mask per Shelby County mandate.

Those signs do NOT include the exemption caveat.

Here's the text of the mandate: https://www.shelbytnhealth.com/DocumentC...OVID%2D19.

Section 1.(b) states:

Quote:Face coverings shall be worn at all times by members of the public except as specifically exemptedherein.

SECTION 2. EXEMPTIONS

Quote:A face covering is not required in the following settings and circumstances:

© By persons who cannot medically tolerate wearing a face covering. No person,
declining to wear a face covering because of a medical condition shall be required to produce verifying medical documentation;

My friend who was hospitalized with COVID and double-pneumonia carries a copy with him because he medically cannot wear a mask.

Even when he points out the exemption documented in the mandate he is denied entry to most places.

He has even been harassed by people for not wearing a mask the few times he was allowed to enter.

I stand corrected. There is a mask mandate in JAX and even then you see maybe 70% compliance. Less in the poorer areas of town.
11-18-2020 12:35 PM
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