(01-17-2021 02:09 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  What would be funny is if someone who thinks that schools that just recently moved up from D2 will be going FBS in a few years were to judge others as delusional....

Well said. LOL

Remember we had some G5 schools with a winning record got cut out of bowl games.San Diego State, UTSA and some MAC schools. If you do add two more G5s to G7? You get more bowl games = more money for schools like UTSA, San Diego State and MAC schools that they would get instead of being left out. San Diego State could play Sam Houston State in a bowl game, UTSA could play Tarleton State in a bowl, UCA could play Toledo. Do you see where I am going on this? The WAC and the ASUN can be the feeder conferences for the other G5 conferences for future expansion instead of going into the FCS level.

If any HBCU is involved would the NCAA/P5/G5 member even think of blocking a move to FBS?

Moving from G5 to P5 is a different than moving to FBS from FCS. G5 to P5 isnt a divisional move controlled exclusively by the NCAA but a conference move controlled by conferences. Im sure some P5s would like to move to a different P5. If these schools move they will not be asking to join an existing FBS conference just make a sub divisional move.

(01-16-2021 09:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 09:08 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 08:14 AM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  

(01-15-2021 08:12 PM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  We are fine as a Indy no need to fight over us but for realz we are happy as Indy. If the day comes we join a ASUN FBS I would be levied.

I agree with you, just pointing out muskie's hypocrisy. You're right where you should be (for now)

How exactly am I a hypocrite?!

There’s no need for two more FBS conferences.

I don't know what you said or didn't say (and I'm too lazy to look it up) so this comment isn't aimed at you, but in general, there is a kind of hypocrisy pyramid in college football:

- G5 fans who complain bitterly about the P5 holding them down often argue for barriers to keep FCS from joining the G5.

- FCS fans who complain about barriers to joining FBS often talk about the need to make sure not too many D2 schools become FCS.

And so on ....

Your first part is 100% accurate

I don’t recall many if any FCS teams complaining about D2 move ups. More teams to play, easier to get home games

It doesn’t take away from playoff berths since there has to be at least as many at-large is as auto bids so if a new conference forms and get an auto bid playoffs expand.

(01-18-2021 09:06 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 09:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 09:08 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 08:14 AM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  

(01-15-2021 08:12 PM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  We are fine as a Indy no need to fight over us but for realz we are happy as Indy. If the day comes we join a ASUN FBS I would be levied.

I agree with you, just pointing out muskie's hypocrisy. You're right where you should be (for now)

How exactly am I a hypocrite?!

There’s no need for two more FBS conferences.

I don't know what you said or didn't say (and I'm too lazy to look it up) so this comment isn't aimed at you, but in general, there is a kind of hypocrisy pyramid in college football:

- G5 fans who complain bitterly about the P5 holding them down often argue for barriers to keep FCS from joining the G5.

- FCS fans who complain about barriers to joining FBS often talk about the need to make sure not too many D2 schools become FCS.

And so on ....

Your first part is 100% accurate

I don’t recall many if any SCS teams complaining about D2 move ups. More teams to play, easier to get home games

It doesn’t take away from playoff berths since there Hass to be at least as many at-large is as auto bids so if a new conference forms and get an auto bid playoffs expand.

Good point. So the hypocrisy is fulcrumed around the G5 - complaining about being held down by P5, but fighting a rear-guard action against rise ups by FCS.

(01-18-2021 09:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 09:06 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 09:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 09:08 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 08:14 AM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  I agree with you, just pointing out muskie's hypocrisy. You're right where you should be (for now)

How exactly am I a hypocrite?!

There’s no need for two more FBS conferences.

I don't know what you said or didn't say (and I'm too lazy to look it up) so this comment isn't aimed at you, but in general, there is a kind of hypocrisy pyramid in college football:

- G5 fans who complain bitterly about the P5 holding them down often argue for barriers to keep FCS from joining the G5.

- FCS fans who complain about barriers to joining FBS often talk about the need to make sure not too many D2 schools become FCS.

And so on ....

Your first part is 100% accurate

I don’t recall many if any SCS teams complaining about D2 move ups. More teams to play, easier to get home games

It doesn’t take away from playoff berths since there Hass to be at least as many at-large is as auto bids so if a new conference forms and get an auto bid playoffs expand.

Good point. So the hypocrisy is fulcrumed around the G5 - complaining about being held down by P5, but fighting a rear-guard action against rise ups by FCS.

Yea, I'll admit that at least for me the hypocrisy is real. I know TXST isnt a world beater by any means but we do have a solid athletics program, heck I'd even go as far as to say above average.

That said, after all of our facility upgrades, budget increases, and all the other investments made its kind of disheartening to see just about anyone and their mom seemingly be able to declare themselves FBS without having done much on their part to at least look the part. The invitation to what was an FBS conference seemed pretty special to us. Oh well.

Here’s the trouble I have:

All of these schools want to run FBS programs at the barest of minimums and then demand a cut of the CFP revenue when they are fielding teams that aren’t actually equipped to compete.

I feel the same way about basketball and some of the conferences that have schools that are D3 in size but collect tournament shares nonetheless

(01-18-2021 12:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Here’s the trouble I have:

All of these schools want to run FBS programs at the barest of minimums and then demand a cut of the CFP revenue when they are fielding teams that aren’t actually equipped to compete.

I feel the same way about basketball and some of the conferences that have schools that are D3 in size but collect tournament shares nonetheless

How about schools that already spent money upgrading their facilities to be there, but are kept out when teams are not ready gets the invite?

James Madison U and Delaware would love an invite to the AAC.
Jacksonville State and Eastern Kentucky wanted in the SBC.
Northern Iowa wanted in FBS, but no invite.
Lamar spent money and applied to join the WAC at the same time that UTSA, Texas State and UTA joined.
Those schools already spent more money to upgrade their facilities to FBS.

Tarleton State, ACU, West Texas A&M, Dixie State, North Alabama, Central Oklahoma, West Florida, and some others are in the middle of upgrading their facilities or in planning stages. Sam Houston State and SFAU could get the funds to upgrade. Texas Southern, North Carolina A&T and Prairie View also spent money to upgrade their facilities. All these schools are spending money better than some in FBS already.

If any school has the means and has the path, then let them do it. Encourage these universities and the teams to achieve the most they possibly can.

Before the invite rule anyone could move up to FBS and many did. The invite rule is a little silly and should be scrapped. In its place there should be strict rules on what FBS schools need facility wise and attendance.

I would like to point out that JMU’s situation is not because they can’t get a invite it’s because they want a invite from a conference like the AAC. Back when the SBC was expanding JMU could of joined then.

(01-18-2021 03:08 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 12:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Here’s the trouble I have:

All of these schools want to run FBS programs at the barest of minimums and then demand a cut of the CFP revenue when they are fielding teams that aren’t actually equipped to compete.

I feel the same way about basketball and some of the conferences that have schools that are D3 in size but collect tournament shares nonetheless

How about schools that already spent money upgrading their facilities to be there, but are kept out when teams are not ready gets the invite?

James Madison U and Delaware would love an invite to the AAC.
Jacksonville State and Eastern Kentucky wanted in the SBC.
Northern Iowa wanted in FBS, but no invite.
Lamar spent money and applied to join the WAC at the same time that UTSA, Texas State and UTA joined.
Those schools already spent more money to upgrade their facilities to FBS.

Tarleton State, ACU, West Texas A&M, Dixie State, North Alabama, Central Oklahoma, West Florida, and some others are in the middle of upgrading their facilities or in planning stages. Sam Houston State and SFAU could get the funds to upgrade. Texas Southern, North Carolina A&T and Prairie View also spent money to upgrade their facilities. All these schools are spending money better than some in FBS already.

Programs that are FBS ready but can't get an invite can go the Liberty route. Eventually you could have league looking like this:

UConn
UMass
JMU
Liberty
Jax State
New Mexico State
Sam Houston
EKU

That wouldn't be all that great an FBS but it would be far better than what' been proposed.

(01-18-2021 03:26 PM)army56mike Wrote:  If any school has the means and has the path, then let them do it. Encourage these universities and the teams to achieve the most they possibly can.

Exactly.

I don't think the motivation is getting a slice of the CFP money.

For one, I don't see a reason these leagues would be guaranteed a slice. Secondly, the more enter the field, the smaller that slice gets.

Economically, there has to be another motivation with greater promise. Yes, the CFP will likely expand and generate more revenue, but it's still a small pie and that's especially true when you consider all the new costs of moving to FBS. Doesn't make any sense.

I'm sure they want some notoriety for the purpose of recruiting students. FCS schools, by and large, are basically invisible to the typical sports fan.

With that said, I think we need to look at macroeconomics. The amount of money available for higher education is going to shrink at the federal and state level. Some schools will even close.

BUT...if you're a small school and you want to make a play to survive a culling(and I'm not just talking about a potential P5 split) then maybe you take some risks to elevate your standing?

(01-18-2021 08:41 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  If any HBCU is involved would the NCAA/P5/G5 member even think of blocking a move to FBS?

That’s a good and tough question. If you’re App State or Charlotte, do you want no part of NCA&T in your level because of any recruiting advantages it can have? Or scheduling?

Old Dominion and Hampton or Norfolk State?

The politics will still be there, I’d guess, albeit framed differently.

(01-19-2021 04:58 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I don't think the motivation is getting a slice of the CFP money.

For one, I don't see a reason these leagues would be guaranteed a slice. Secondly, the more enter the field, the smaller that slice gets.

Economically, there has to be another motivation with greater promise. Yes, the CFP will likely expand and generate more revenue, but it's still a small pie and that's especially true when you consider all the new costs of moving to FBS. Doesn't make any sense.

I'm sure they want some notoriety for the purpose of recruiting students. FCS schools, by and large, are basically invisible to the typical sports fan.

With that said, I think we need to look at macroeconomics. The amount of money available for higher education is going to shrink at the federal and state level. Some schools will even close.

BUT...if you're a small school and you want to make a play to survive a culling(and I'm not just talking about a potential P5 split) then maybe you take some risks to elevate your standing?

These are not small schools that want to move up. They are seeing the private schools losing students while they are gaining.
The main reason with all these movements showed cracks in P5, G5, FCS and D1 which also go all the way down to JC levels during the pandemic. Adding more schools to the FBS opens up for more schools in the inventory for P5 and G5 schools can schedule at the last minute replacements. ACC can't get ODU as a last minute replacement game since they did not play. The D1 as a whole could open up D1 for the large public and private schools to join to help the ease of cost of travel. We do need more west coast and the great plain schools to come up. We could recognize former D1 conferences to be reform again which they should be recognized as a confernce again.There are D2 schools that do have the will and resources to go to FBS while some FCS schools do not. I do think we might see some HBCUs who have the means to move up. Lets say Texas Southern wins the WAC and their opponent in the bowl is North Carolina A&T from the ASUN? That would be a bigger payout than the Celebration Bowl.

(01-18-2021 10:49 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 09:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-18-2021 09:06 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 09:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-16-2021 09:08 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  How exactly am I a hypocrite?!

There’s no need for two more FBS conferences.

I don't know what you said or didn't say (and I'm too lazy to look it up) so this comment isn't aimed at you, but in general, there is a kind of hypocrisy pyramid in college football:

- G5 fans who complain bitterly about the P5 holding them down often argue for barriers to keep FCS from joining the G5.

- FCS fans who complain about barriers to joining FBS often talk about the need to make sure not too many D2 schools become FCS.

And so on ....

Your first part is 100% accurate

I don’t recall many if any SCS teams complaining about D2 move ups. More teams to play, easier to get home games

It doesn’t take away from playoff berths since there Hass to be at least as many at-large is as auto bids so if a new conference forms and get an auto bid playoffs expand.

Good point. So the hypocrisy is fulcrumed around the G5 - complaining about being held down by P5, but fighting a rear-guard action against rise ups by FCS.

Yea, I'll admit that at least for me the hypocrisy is real. I know TXST isnt a world beater by any means but we do have a solid athletics program, heck I'd even go as far as to say above average.

That said, after all of our facility upgrades, budget increases, and all the other investments made its kind of disheartening to see just about anyone and their mom seemingly be able to declare themselves FBS without having done much on their part to at least look the part. The invitation to what was an FBS conference seemed pretty special to us. Oh well.

FWIW, I think Texas State is a rising power with a very bright future. You guys are growing by leaps and bounds, getting bigger and better all the time.

The ASUN’s dream is probably EKU, Jacksonville St, and then the 3 true public schools from the SoCon: ETSU, WCU, and UTC (the military schools have a private school vibe)

This opens up the opportunity for the SoCon to become a private school (+UNCG) league with Gardner-Webb, Campbell, and Charleston Southern.

The Big South then raids the MEAC and the MEAC collapses.

(01-19-2021 04:58 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I don't think the motivation is getting a slice of the CFP money.

For one, I don't see a reason these leagues would be guaranteed a slice. Secondly, the more enter the field, the smaller that slice gets.

Economically, there has to be another motivation with greater promise.

I agree. The CFP dollars are relatively small, and as a new FBS you might not even get a cut depending on how the CFP contract is drawn up.

To me, the motivation is The Dream of Big Time Athletics. Every school wants to be Notre Dame or Alabama. They see moving from FCS to FBS as a step on that Journey. From this POV, moving to FBS will mean more student enrollment, greater alumni donations, greater overall pride and school spirit, and a host of other such benefits. The increase in academic subsidies from around $10 million a year to around $30 million a year is just viewed as an investment that will pay dividends in the long run.

The fact that it almost never turns out that way is just no barrier. Each school on the Journey thinks that it is Different, and it will turn out differently for them.

(01-19-2021 05:17 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  These are not small schools that want to move up. They are seeing the private schools losing students while they are gaining.
The main reason with all these movements showed cracks in P5, G5, FCS and D1 which also go all the way down to JC levels during the pandemic. Adding more schools to the FBS opens up for more schools in the inventory for P5 and G5 schools can schedule at the last minute replacements. ACC can't get ODU as a last minute replacement game since they did not play. The D1 as a whole could open up D1 for the large public and private schools to join to help the ease of cost of travel. We do need more west coast and the great plain schools to come up. We could recognize former D1 conferences to be reform again which they should be recognized as a confernce again.There are D2 schools that do have the will and resources to go to FBS while some FCS schools do not. I do think we might see some HBCUs who have the means to move up. Lets say Texas Southern wins the WAC and their opponent in the bowl is North Carolina A&T from the ASUN? That would be a bigger payout than the Celebration Bowl.

Does anyone here know the boiling point of brain?