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The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #41
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-19-2020 12:43 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 10:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 09:52 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 09:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 09:17 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to the "separation" of the AAC from the other G5, and particularly from the MWC, it might be too easy to simply compare wins. In that respect, there likely hasn't been much separation between the American and the Mountain West. As such, I would be curious to see where the AAC and MWC compare regarding the following:

* Average number of four-star recruits (and three-star recruits) the leagues have landed the past five seasons.

G5 teams land so few 4* recruits that this metric is probably null and void. Just looking at the 24/7 rankings for 2020, the entire G5 had 4 four-star recruits. 3-star guys are the mead and drink of the G5.

As for coaching salaries, the AAC is surely well ahead. IIRC, the top 5 paid G5 coaches are in the AAC. USF actually is fourth in that regard, we are paying our current coach more than Boise pays theirs. We haven't yet gotten much ROI from it.


Agree on the four stars. But, for example, if the American averaged, say, four four-star football recruits each year to the MWC's, say, one four-star recruit ... that is a "separation of sorts." But I would not know as I don't check MWC football recruiting. I do know Memphis and Cincy have landed some four-star football recruits the past few years (as has, at least, Houston, if I recall correctly).

USF will be back in football.

Regarding #1, if the AAC lands an average of 4 four star recruits and the MW lands 1, that averages out to about 1/3 of a 4 star recruit per AAC team and 1/12 of one for an MW team. Those numbers are so small as to be trivial, IMO.

As for USF football, I hope you are right but I have my doubts. As much as I think our coaching has been lousy (save for a couple years of Taggart) the past 10 years, at a certain point you have to look at the structure of your program. With us, I think it starts with the lack of an on-campus stadium. I don't think we develop much until we have one.


As to USF and the lack of an on-campus stadium ... you might be right. In contrast, Memphis lacks an on-campus facility but is doing fairly well regardless. Of course, and in fairness, USF shares its stadium with an NFL team, which could be a negative.

Eh, the Liberty Bowl is a quasi-campus stadium. Close enough, LOL.
11-19-2020 12:47 PM
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colohank Offline
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Post: #42
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-19-2020 12:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 11:59 AM)colohank Wrote:  In this thread, people are confusing the "power" appellation of P5 with prowess on the field, but in reality, it relates only to the networks' perceptions of the ability to draw eyeballs and generate revenue -- haves vs. have-nots. There are a number of G5 teams that consistently outperform P5 counterparts, but they've been relegated by virtue of name, history, academic status, market size and command, the size of their fan-bases, and geographic location. If the P5 and G5 distinctions were suddenly ignored, every team thrown in a hopper, and then reassigned to conferences based on actual performance on the field, the division of power and non-power would be noticeably different.

Excluding its four-year lapse during the Tuberville era, Cincinnati has been consistently good for a decade and a half or more. Is it exceeding expectations by continuing to be good? I don't think so. Do Texas Tech, Kansas, Vanderbilt, Illinois, Wake Forest, Rutgers, Kentucky, Oregon State, Iowa State, Mississippi State, UCLA, Miami (FL), et al consistently excel on the field because they're in P5 conferences? Don't make me laugh. They're affiliated only because they were in the right place at the right time.

Cincinnati and some other G5 schools put a competent and entertaining product on the field, and they consistently excel. That won't go unnoticed.

Some strange teams you included there. Miami and UCLA are in the P5 only because of time and place? Seriously?

And the reputation thing cuts both ways - schools like Kentucky and Texas Tech and Mississippi State are generally thought to be worse on the field than they actually are. In their case, being in Power conferences hurts their perception because they are regarded as lower-rung within their conferences.

For example, in the past 15 seasons, Cincy has won 6 bowl games. But Texas Tech has won 6 as well. Mississippi State has won 7, Kentucky has won 5, all pretty comparable.

OK, perhaps I just should have said that every P5 conference has its perennial bottom feeders. Though members of so-called power conferences, they're often substandard performers on the field of play when compared with or actually pitted against some G5 teams. Again, being in a "power" conference doesn't mean that a school's team is an opponent to be feared. "Power" in the context of the P5/G5 division is a marketing term.
11-19-2020 02:15 PM
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bill dazzle Online
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Post: #43
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-19-2020 12:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 12:43 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 10:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 09:52 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 09:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  G5 teams land so few 4* recruits that this metric is probably null and void. Just looking at the 24/7 rankings for 2020, the entire G5 had 4 four-star recruits. 3-star guys are the mead and drink of the G5.

As for coaching salaries, the AAC is surely well ahead. IIRC, the top 5 paid G5 coaches are in the AAC. USF actually is fourth in that regard, we are paying our current coach more than Boise pays theirs. We haven't yet gotten much ROI from it.


Agree on the four stars. But, for example, if the American averaged, say, four four-star football recruits each year to the MWC's, say, one four-star recruit ... that is a "separation of sorts." But I would not know as I don't check MWC football recruiting. I do know Memphis and Cincy have landed some four-star football recruits the past few years (as has, at least, Houston, if I recall correctly).

USF will be back in football.

Regarding #1, if the AAC lands an average of 4 four star recruits and the MW lands 1, that averages out to about 1/3 of a 4 star recruit per AAC team and 1/12 of one for an MW team. Those numbers are so small as to be trivial, IMO.

As for USF football, I hope you are right but I have my doubts. As much as I think our coaching has been lousy (save for a couple years of Taggart) the past 10 years, at a certain point you have to look at the structure of your program. With us, I think it starts with the lack of an on-campus stadium. I don't think we develop much until we have one.


As to USF and the lack of an on-campus stadium ... you might be right. In contrast, Memphis lacks an on-campus facility but is doing fairly well regardless. Of course, and in fairness, USF shares its stadium with an NFL team, which could be a negative.

Eh, the Liberty Bowl is a quasi-campus stadium. Close enough, LOL.


Good point. The Liberty Bowl is considerably physically closer to the UofM campus than Raymond James Stadium is to the USF campus.

My brother and I saw both the stadium and USF campus when we visited Tampa in the late aughts. We were hugely impressed by the sheer size (acreage, number of buildings, students walking, etc.) of USF. That is a beast of a university.
11-19-2020 03:24 PM
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bill dazzle Online
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Post: #44
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-19-2020 02:15 PM)colohank Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 12:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 11:59 AM)colohank Wrote:  In this thread, people are confusing the "power" appellation of P5 with prowess on the field, but in reality, it relates only to the networks' perceptions of the ability to draw eyeballs and generate revenue -- haves vs. have-nots. There are a number of G5 teams that consistently outperform P5 counterparts, but they've been relegated by virtue of name, history, academic status, market size and command, the size of their fan-bases, and geographic location. If the P5 and G5 distinctions were suddenly ignored, every team thrown in a hopper, and then reassigned to conferences based on actual performance on the field, the division of power and non-power would be noticeably different.

Excluding its four-year lapse during the Tuberville era, Cincinnati has been consistently good for a decade and a half or more. Is it exceeding expectations by continuing to be good? I don't think so. Do Texas Tech, Kansas, Vanderbilt, Illinois, Wake Forest, Rutgers, Kentucky, Oregon State, Iowa State, Mississippi State, UCLA, Miami (FL), et al consistently excel on the field because they're in P5 conferences? Don't make me laugh. They're affiliated only because they were in the right place at the right time.

Cincinnati and some other G5 schools put a competent and entertaining product on the field, and they consistently excel. That won't go unnoticed.

Some strange teams you included there. Miami and UCLA are in the P5 only because of time and place? Seriously?

And the reputation thing cuts both ways - schools like Kentucky and Texas Tech and Mississippi State are generally thought to be worse on the field than they actually are. In their case, being in Power conferences hurts their perception because they are regarded as lower-rung within their conferences.

For example, in the past 15 seasons, Cincy has won 6 bowl games. But Texas Tech has won 6 as well. Mississippi State has won 7, Kentucky has won 5, all pretty comparable.

OK, perhaps I just should have said that every P5 conference has its perennial bottom feeders. Though members of so-called power conferences, they're often substandard performers on the field of play when compared with or actually pitted against some G5 teams. Again, being in a "power" conference doesn't mean that a school's team is an opponent to be feared. "Power" in the context of the P5/G5 division is a marketing term.


As a Vanderbilt and Cincinnati fan, I can assure you that you are dead-on accurate with this point.
11-19-2020 03:25 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #45
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-19-2020 03:24 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 12:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 12:43 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 10:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 09:52 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Agree on the four stars. But, for example, if the American averaged, say, four four-star football recruits each year to the MWC's, say, one four-star recruit ... that is a "separation of sorts." But I would not know as I don't check MWC football recruiting. I do know Memphis and Cincy have landed some four-star football recruits the past few years (as has, at least, Houston, if I recall correctly).

USF will be back in football.

Regarding #1, if the AAC lands an average of 4 four star recruits and the MW lands 1, that averages out to about 1/3 of a 4 star recruit per AAC team and 1/12 of one for an MW team. Those numbers are so small as to be trivial, IMO.

As for USF football, I hope you are right but I have my doubts. As much as I think our coaching has been lousy (save for a couple years of Taggart) the past 10 years, at a certain point you have to look at the structure of your program. With us, I think it starts with the lack of an on-campus stadium. I don't think we develop much until we have one.


As to USF and the lack of an on-campus stadium ... you might be right. In contrast, Memphis lacks an on-campus facility but is doing fairly well regardless. Of course, and in fairness, USF shares its stadium with an NFL team, which could be a negative.

Eh, the Liberty Bowl is a quasi-campus stadium. Close enough, LOL.


Good point. The Liberty Bowl is considerably physically closer to the UofM campus than Raymond James Stadium is to the USF campus.

My brother and I saw both the stadium and USF campus when we visited Tampa in the late aughts. We were hugely impressed by the sheer size (acreage, number of buildings, students walking, etc.) of USF. That is a beast of a university.

Glad you got to see it. USF-Tampa is a huge campus, at one point in the 1980s it was the largest in terms of acreage in the country, and yet it doesn't sprawl disconnectedly. Just about all of it fits within Fowler avenue on the south, Fletcher avenue on the north, 30th street to the west, and 50th street to the east. That's about 1 mile north to south and almost 2 miles east to west.

Institutionally, we've never been better. USF was a decent school when I attended from the early 1980s to the mid-1990s, but when I go back to campus about 75% of it is unrecognizable these days. Hundreds and hundreds of millions have been spent upgrading basically everything.

We just need a football team the university can be proud of, LOL.
11-19-2020 03:33 PM
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bill dazzle Online
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Post: #46
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-19-2020 03:33 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 03:24 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 12:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 12:43 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 10:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Regarding #1, if the AAC lands an average of 4 four star recruits and the MW lands 1, that averages out to about 1/3 of a 4 star recruit per AAC team and 1/12 of one for an MW team. Those numbers are so small as to be trivial, IMO.

As for USF football, I hope you are right but I have my doubts. As much as I think our coaching has been lousy (save for a couple years of Taggart) the past 10 years, at a certain point you have to look at the structure of your program. With us, I think it starts with the lack of an on-campus stadium. I don't think we develop much until we have one.


As to USF and the lack of an on-campus stadium ... you might be right. In contrast, Memphis lacks an on-campus facility but is doing fairly well regardless. Of course, and in fairness, USF shares its stadium with an NFL team, which could be a negative.

Eh, the Liberty Bowl is a quasi-campus stadium. Close enough, LOL.


Good point. The Liberty Bowl is considerably physically closer to the UofM campus than Raymond James Stadium is to the USF campus.

My brother and I saw both the stadium and USF campus when we visited Tampa in the late aughts. We were hugely impressed by the sheer size (acreage, number of buildings, students walking, etc.) of USF. That is a beast of a university.

Glad you got to see it. USF-Tampa is a huge campus, at one point in the 1980s it was the largest in terms of acreage in the country, and yet it doesn't sprawl disconnectedly. Just about all of it fits within Fowler avenue on the south, Fletcher avenue on the north, 30th street to the west, and 50th street to the east. That's about 1 mile north to south and almost 2 miles east to west.

Institutionally, we've never been better. USF was a decent school when I attended from the early 1980s to the mid-1990s, but when I go back to campus about 75% of it is unrecognizable these days. Hundreds and hundreds of millions have been spent upgrading basically everything.

We just need a football team the university can be proud of, LOL.


I have seen/driven through/toured in person at least one-third of the campuses of P5 schools and another 12 or so collectively from the Big East and the American. USF likely ranks in the top five for me in terms of how it elicited an "oh my gosh, this is massive" response. It is eye-popping.

My brother (as you might know by now) attended Indiana University. That's another one that impresses due to sheer size and number of buildings and people.

The University of Central Florida and the University of Texas (both of which I've seen) are big time too.

USF is a distinctive campus due to many factors and the university is a rising academic power.
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2020 06:57 PM by bill dazzle.)
11-19-2020 06:57 PM
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Post: #47
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-19-2020 09:17 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to the "separation" of the AAC from the other G5, and particularly from the MWC, it might be too easy to simply compare wins. In that respect, there likely hasn't been much separation between the American and the Mountain West. As such, I would be curious to see where the AAC and MWC compare regarding the following:

* Average number of four-star recruits (and three-star recruits) the leagues have landed the past five seasons.

* Number of programs in the top 60 for team ranking in recruiting the past five seasons.

* Average number of teams each week in the Top 25 the past five seasons.

* Average head coach salary

* Average assistant coach salary

* Average league-wide attendance (throwing out the high and low marks)


* Average number of players drafted into the NFL the past five seasons

When all these metrics are considered, I would think the AAC has established a clear separation from the MWC. I'm biased as a Cincy and Memphis fan, but I simply feel based on my talks with friends and acquaintances who know college sport that the perception is that the AAC has created rather notable separation the past five years or so.

It's an interesting debate and somewhat subjective. I hugely respect the MWC. My father served in the Air Force in the 1950s. He was stationed in New Mexico and attended college at New Mexico Highland University while doing his military service. He likes the MWC team, particularly Wyoming (for some odd reason).

But the American continues to seemingly get better while the MWC seems to have reached a plateau of sorts. Maybe I'm wrong. Somebody show me the light.

2019 - Average Attendance of the 11 teams now in the AAC was 30285; throw out the high and low and the average of middle 9 was 30067
2019 Average Attendance of the mwc was 23016; throw out the high and low and the average of middle 10 was 22873

2015-2019 Average Attendance of the 11 teams now in the AAC was 30544; throw out the high and low and the average of middle 9 was 30564
2015-2019 Average Attendance of the mwc was 23864; throw out the high and low and the average of middle 10 was 23637
11-20-2020 12:06 PM
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bill dazzle Online
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Post: #48
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-20-2020 12:06 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 09:17 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to the "separation" of the AAC from the other G5, and particularly from the MWC, it might be too easy to simply compare wins. In that respect, there likely hasn't been much separation between the American and the Mountain West. As such, I would be curious to see where the AAC and MWC compare regarding the following:

* Average number of four-star recruits (and three-star recruits) the leagues have landed the past five seasons.

* Number of programs in the top 60 for team ranking in recruiting the past five seasons.

* Average number of teams each week in the Top 25 the past five seasons.

* Average head coach salary

* Average assistant coach salary

* Average league-wide attendance (throwing out the high and low marks)


* Average number of players drafted into the NFL the past five seasons

When all these metrics are considered, I would think the AAC has established a clear separation from the MWC. I'm biased as a Cincy and Memphis fan, but I simply feel based on my talks with friends and acquaintances who know college sport that the perception is that the AAC has created rather notable separation the past five years or so.

It's an interesting debate and somewhat subjective. I hugely respect the MWC. My father served in the Air Force in the 1950s. He was stationed in New Mexico and attended college at New Mexico Highland University while doing his military service. He likes the MWC team, particularly Wyoming (for some odd reason).

But the American continues to seemingly get better while the MWC seems to have reached a plateau of sorts. Maybe I'm wrong. Somebody show me the light.

2019 - Average Attendance of the 11 teams now in the AAC was 30285; throw out the high and low and the average of middle 9 was 30067
2019 Average Attendance of the mwc was 23016; throw out the high and low and the average of middle 10 was 22873

2015-2019 Average Attendance of the 11 teams now in the AAC was 30544; throw out the high and low and the average of middle 9 was 30564
2015-2019 Average Attendance of the mwc was 23864; throw out the high and low and the average of middle 10 was 23637


Good work, slhNavy91. Another example of how the AAC is making strides to differentiate itself from the other four in the G5. The American truly has become a "tweener" league and that's a good thing.
11-20-2020 12:48 PM
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slhNavy91 Online
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Post: #49
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-19-2020 09:17 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to the "separation" of the AAC from the other G5, and particularly from the MWC, it might be too easy to simply compare wins. In that respect, there likely hasn't been much separation between the American and the Mountain West. As such, I would be curious to see where the AAC and MWC compare regarding the following:

* Average number of four-star recruits (and three-star recruits) the leagues have landed the past five seasons.

* Number of programs in the top 60 for team ranking in recruiting the past five seasons.

* Average number of teams each week in the Top 25 the past five seasons.

* Average head coach salary

* Average assistant coach salary

* Average league-wide attendance (throwing out the high and low marks)

* Average number of players drafted into the NFL the past five seasons

When all these metrics are considered, I would think the AAC has established a clear separation from the MWC. I'm biased as a Cincy and Memphis fan, but I simply feel based on my talks with friends and acquaintances who know college sport that the perception is that the AAC has created rather notable separation the past five years or so.

It's an interesting debate and somewhat subjective. I hugely respect the MWC. My father served in the Air Force in the 1950s. He was stationed in New Mexico and attended college at New Mexico Highland University while doing his military service. He likes the MWC team, particularly Wyoming (for some odd reason).

But the American continues to seemingly get better while the MWC seems to have reached a plateau of sorts. Maybe I'm wrong. Somebody show me the light.

Coaches' salaries are relatively easy to compare, thanks to USAToday.

10 of 11 AAC football schools provided head coach salary info. Average $2,178,564
11 of 12 mwc schools provided head coach salary info. Average $1,131,441
The top mwc head coach salary, Harsin of Boise State at $1,773,846 would be #7 on the AAC list. The lowest listed AAC head coach salary is Sonny Dykes of SMU, with the only data given by the school "total pay" of $1,340,314; if that is the whole truth (there may be Pony Club dollars not captured there), it would be 5th among the 11 mwc schools. mwc #1 = AAC bottom half; AAC last place = mwc top half

Assistant coach pay pool not as comprehensive in USA Today's data.
Only 6 of 11 AAC football schools provided that info. Average $2,520,992
10 of 12 mwc schools responded with assistant coach info. Average $1,772,811
All but one AAC pool is over $2million; only the top two mwc are, sliding in between #5 and #6 on the AAC list. The low outlier for the AAC falls squarely in the middle of the mwc data.
11-21-2020 10:12 AM
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bill dazzle Online
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RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-21-2020 10:12 AM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 09:17 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to the "separation" of the AAC from the other G5, and particularly from the MWC, it might be too easy to simply compare wins. In that respect, there likely hasn't been much separation between the American and the Mountain West. As such, I would be curious to see where the AAC and MWC compare regarding the following:

* Average number of four-star recruits (and three-star recruits) the leagues have landed the past five seasons.

* Number of programs in the top 60 for team ranking in recruiting the past five seasons.

* Average number of teams each week in the Top 25 the past five seasons.

* Average head coach salary

* Average assistant coach salary

* Average league-wide attendance (throwing out the high and low marks)

* Average number of players drafted into the NFL the past five seasons

When all these metrics are considered, I would think the AAC has established a clear separation from the MWC. I'm biased as a Cincy and Memphis fan, but I simply feel based on my talks with friends and acquaintances who know college sport that the perception is that the AAC has created rather notable separation the past five years or so.

It's an interesting debate and somewhat subjective. I hugely respect the MWC. My father served in the Air Force in the 1950s. He was stationed in New Mexico and attended college at New Mexico Highland University while doing his military service. He likes the MWC team, particularly Wyoming (for some odd reason).

But the American continues to seemingly get better while the MWC seems to have reached a plateau of sorts. Maybe I'm wrong. Somebody show me the light.

Coaches' salaries are relatively easy to compare, thanks to USAToday.

10 of 11 AAC football schools provided head coach salary info. Average $2,178,564
11 of 12 mwc schools provided head coach salary info. Average $1,131,441
The top mwc head coach salary, Harsin of Boise State at $1,773,846 would be #7 on the AAC list. The lowest listed AAC head coach salary is Sonny Dykes of SMU, with the only data given by the school "total pay" of $1,340,314; if that is the whole truth (there may be Pony Club dollars not captured there), it would be 5th among the 11 mwc schools. mwc #1 = AAC bottom half; AAC last place = mwc top half

Assistant coach pay pool not as comprehensive in USA Today's data.
Only 6 of 11 AAC football schools provided that info. Average $2,520,992
10 of 12 mwc schools responded with assistant coach info. Average $1,772,811
All but one AAC pool is over $2million; only the top two mwc are, sliding in between #5 and #6 on the AAC list. The low outlier for the AAC falls squarely in the middle of the mwc data.


Good stuff. Helpful.
11-21-2020 10:44 AM
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RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-19-2020 06:57 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 03:33 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 03:24 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 12:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 12:43 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to USF and the lack of an on-campus stadium ... you might be right. In contrast, Memphis lacks an on-campus facility but is doing fairly well regardless. Of course, and in fairness, USF shares its stadium with an NFL team, which could be a negative.

Eh, the Liberty Bowl is a quasi-campus stadium. Close enough, LOL.


Good point. The Liberty Bowl is considerably physically closer to the UofM campus than Raymond James Stadium is to the USF campus.

My brother and I saw both the stadium and USF campus when we visited Tampa in the late aughts. We were hugely impressed by the sheer size (acreage, number of buildings, students walking, etc.) of USF. That is a beast of a university.

Glad you got to see it. USF-Tampa is a huge campus, at one point in the 1980s it was the largest in terms of acreage in the country, and yet it doesn't sprawl disconnectedly. Just about all of it fits within Fowler avenue on the south, Fletcher avenue on the north, 30th street to the west, and 50th street to the east. That's about 1 mile north to south and almost 2 miles east to west.

Institutionally, we've never been better. USF was a decent school when I attended from the early 1980s to the mid-1990s, but when I go back to campus about 75% of it is unrecognizable these days. Hundreds and hundreds of millions have been spent upgrading basically everything.

We just need a football team the university can be proud of, LOL.


I have seen/driven through/toured in person at least one-third of the campuses of P5 schools and another 12 or so collectively from the Big East and the American. USF likely ranks in the top five for me in terms of how it elicited an "oh my gosh, this is massive" response. It is eye-popping.

My brother (as you might know by now) attended Indiana University. That's another one that impresses due to sheer size and number of buildings and people.

The University of Central Florida and the University of Texas (both of which I've seen) are big time too.

USF is a distinctive campus due to many factors and the university is a rising academic power.

The Indiana Memorial Union building is a MILE LONG, and made entirely of limestone. Breathtaking campus (native Hoosier myself).
11-21-2020 11:06 AM
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slhNavy91 Online
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Post: #52
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-19-2020 09:17 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to the "separation" of the AAC from the other G5, and particularly from the MWC, it might be too easy to simply compare wins. In that respect, there likely hasn't been much separation between the American and the Mountain West. As such, I would be curious to see where the AAC and MWC compare regarding the following:

* Average number of four-star recruits (and three-star recruits) the leagues have landed the past five seasons.

* Number of programs in the top 60 for team ranking in recruiting the past five seasons.


* Average number of teams each week in the Top 25 the past five seasons.

* Average head coach salary

* Average assistant coach salary

* Average league-wide attendance (throwing out the high and low marks)

* Average number of players drafted into the NFL the past five seasons

When all these metrics are considered, I would think the AAC has established a clear separation from the MWC. I'm biased as a Cincy and Memphis fan, but I simply feel based on my talks with friends and acquaintances who know college sport that the perception is that the AAC has created rather notable separation the past five years or so.

It's an interesting debate and somewhat subjective. I hugely respect the MWC. My father served in the Air Force in the 1950s. He was stationed in New Mexico and attended college at New Mexico Highland University while doing his military service. He likes the MWC team, particularly Wyoming (for some odd reason).

But the American continues to seemingly get better while the MWC seems to have reached a plateau of sorts. Maybe I'm wrong. Somebody show me the light.

Recruiting rankings answer part I.

I am not an in-the-weeds recruitinik. As a Navy fan, since we are just different, it doesn't offer a high ROI.

I have previously grabbed this datapoint though...advanced stats guy Bill Connelly does SP+. Before he moved from SBNation to ESPN, he posted what he uses for multi-year recruiting, to factor into his pre-season ratings. Before the 2019 season, he posted the details on his weighted four-year recruiting rankings."67 percent this year’s class, 15 percent last year’s, 15 percent the year before that, three percent the year before that." Pretty specific to his other statistical analysis, but provides some insight to your question. Here AAC and mwc in his weighted 2016-2019 recruiting rankings:
#53 Boise State
#62 UCF
#68 Memphis
#69 Cincinnati
#72 South Florida
#73 SMU
#74 Houston
#77 ECU

#79 Colorado State
#86 San Diego State
#89 Tulane
#92 Nevada
#93 Fresno State
#94 Temple
#97 Utah State
#98 Tulsa
#102 Hawaii
#104 Wyoming
#107 UNLV
#109 San Jose State
#111 Air Force
#120 Navy
#121 New Mexico

For comparison, here are the two conferences in the 2020 rankings by 247Sports:
#41 Cincinnati
#65 Boise State
#66 Memphis
#69 Tulane
#70 SMU
#72 Houston
#74 ECU
#75 UCF

#80 UNLV
#95 San Diego State
#101 Temple
#105 New Mexico
#107 Air Force
#109 USF
#110 Colorado State
#114 Fresno State
#116 Tulsa
#117 Wyoming
#118 San Jose State
#119 Nevada
#122 Utah State
#125 Hawaii
#126 Navy

Someone else on here may already stuff spreadsheet-ed out. I haven't yet, but I probably will now that you've got my interest.

From a quick look at other years, though, the big picture will be the same:
The top half-ish of the AAC will be around #50-75. One or two mwc will be within the range of the AAC's top half. Could even be best, Boise State has beaten all the AAC in at least one of those years. There will also be one or two each from the other G4 conferences in the AAC's top half range. And only the worst one or two of the AAC will be outside the top half of the mwc (or any other G4 conference).

That's the story of just about any program metric you look at - attendance, budgets, coaches' salaries. A couple G4s might sneak into the top half of the AAC. The worst AAC program is mid-pack of the G4s. Any metric, pick the top ten, twelve, or fourteen to make some "best of the rest" conference, and half or more will be AAC.
11-21-2020 10:05 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #53
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-21-2020 10:05 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 09:17 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to the "separation" of the AAC from the other G5, and particularly from the MWC, it might be too easy to simply compare wins. In that respect, there likely hasn't been much separation between the American and the Mountain West. As such, I would be curious to see where the AAC and MWC compare regarding the following:

* Average number of four-star recruits (and three-star recruits) the leagues have landed the past five seasons.

* Number of programs in the top 60 for team ranking in recruiting the past five seasons.


* Average number of teams each week in the Top 25 the past five seasons.

* Average head coach salary

* Average assistant coach salary

* Average league-wide attendance (throwing out the high and low marks)

* Average number of players drafted into the NFL the past five seasons

When all these metrics are considered, I would think the AAC has established a clear separation from the MWC. I'm biased as a Cincy and Memphis fan, but I simply feel based on my talks with friends and acquaintances who know college sport that the perception is that the AAC has created rather notable separation the past five years or so.

It's an interesting debate and somewhat subjective. I hugely respect the MWC. My father served in the Air Force in the 1950s. He was stationed in New Mexico and attended college at New Mexico Highland University while doing his military service. He likes the MWC team, particularly Wyoming (for some odd reason).

But the American continues to seemingly get better while the MWC seems to have reached a plateau of sorts. Maybe I'm wrong. Somebody show me the light.

Recruiting rankings answer part I.

I am not an in-the-weeds recruitinik. As a Navy fan, since we are just different, it doesn't offer a high ROI.

I have previously grabbed this datapoint though...advanced stats guy Bill Connelly does SP+. Before he moved from SBNation to ESPN, he posted what he uses for multi-year recruiting, to factor into his pre-season ratings. Before the 2019 season, he posted the details on his weighted four-year recruiting rankings."67 percent this year’s class, 15 percent last year’s, 15 percent the year before that, three percent the year before that." Pretty specific to his other statistical analysis, but provides some insight to your question. Here AAC and mwc in his weighted 2016-2019 recruiting rankings:
#53 Boise State
[b]#62 UCF
#68 Memphis
#69 Cincinnati
#72 South Florida

We have squandered a lot of talent.
11-21-2020 10:35 PM
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bill dazzle Online
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Post: #54
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-21-2020 10:35 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-21-2020 10:05 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 09:17 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to the "separation" of the AAC from the other G5, and particularly from the MWC, it might be too easy to simply compare wins. In that respect, there likely hasn't been much separation between the American and the Mountain West. As such, I would be curious to see where the AAC and MWC compare regarding the following:

* Average number of four-star recruits (and three-star recruits) the leagues have landed the past five seasons.

* Number of programs in the top 60 for team ranking in recruiting the past five seasons.


* Average number of teams each week in the Top 25 the past five seasons.

* Average head coach salary

* Average assistant coach salary

* Average league-wide attendance (throwing out the high and low marks)

* Average number of players drafted into the NFL the past five seasons

When all these metrics are considered, I would think the AAC has established a clear separation from the MWC. I'm biased as a Cincy and Memphis fan, but I simply feel based on my talks with friends and acquaintances who know college sport that the perception is that the AAC has created rather notable separation the past five years or so.

It's an interesting debate and somewhat subjective. I hugely respect the MWC. My father served in the Air Force in the 1950s. He was stationed in New Mexico and attended college at New Mexico Highland University while doing his military service. He likes the MWC team, particularly Wyoming (for some odd reason).

But the American continues to seemingly get better while the MWC seems to have reached a plateau of sorts. Maybe I'm wrong. Somebody show me the light.

Recruiting rankings answer part I.

I am not an in-the-weeds recruitinik. As a Navy fan, since we are just different, it doesn't offer a high ROI.

I have previously grabbed this datapoint though...advanced stats guy Bill Connelly does SP+. Before he moved from SBNation to ESPN, he posted what he uses for multi-year recruiting, to factor into his pre-season ratings. Before the 2019 season, he posted the details on his weighted four-year recruiting rankings."67 percent this year’s class, 15 percent last year’s, 15 percent the year before that, three percent the year before that." Pretty specific to his other statistical analysis, but provides some insight to your question. Here AAC and mwc in his weighted 2016-2019 recruiting rankings:
#53 Boise State
[b]#62 UCF
#68 Memphis
#69 Cincinnati
#72 South Florida

We have squandered a lot of talent.


The ladies have told Bill Dazzle, over many years, the opposite of this. And I shall let the posters and readers of this board ponder that one.
11-21-2020 11:30 PM
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cubucks Offline
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Post: #55
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-21-2020 11:30 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(11-21-2020 10:35 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-21-2020 10:05 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 09:17 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to the "separation" of the AAC from the other G5, and particularly from the MWC, it might be too easy to simply compare wins. In that respect, there likely hasn't been much separation between the American and the Mountain West. As such, I would be curious to see where the AAC and MWC compare regarding the following:

* Average number of four-star recruits (and three-star recruits) the leagues have landed the past five seasons.

* Number of programs in the top 60 for team ranking in recruiting the past five seasons.


* Average number of teams each week in the Top 25 the past five seasons.

* Average head coach salary

* Average assistant coach salary

* Average league-wide attendance (throwing out the high and low marks)

* Average number of players drafted into the NFL the past five seasons

When all these metrics are considered, I would think the AAC has established a clear separation from the MWC. I'm biased as a Cincy and Memphis fan, but I simply feel based on my talks with friends and acquaintances who know college sport that the perception is that the AAC has created rather notable separation the past five years or so.

It's an interesting debate and somewhat subjective. I hugely respect the MWC. My father served in the Air Force in the 1950s. He was stationed in New Mexico and attended college at New Mexico Highland University while doing his military service. He likes the MWC team, particularly Wyoming (for some odd reason).

But the American continues to seemingly get better while the MWC seems to have reached a plateau of sorts. Maybe I'm wrong. Somebody show me the light.

Recruiting rankings answer part I.

I am not an in-the-weeds recruitinik. As a Navy fan, since we are just different, it doesn't offer a high ROI.

I have previously grabbed this datapoint though...advanced stats guy Bill Connelly does SP+. Before he moved from SBNation to ESPN, he posted what he uses for multi-year recruiting, to factor into his pre-season ratings. Before the 2019 season, he posted the details on his weighted four-year recruiting rankings."67 percent this year’s class, 15 percent last year’s, 15 percent the year before that, three percent the year before that." Pretty specific to his other statistical analysis, but provides some insight to your question. Here AAC and mwc in his weighted 2016-2019 recruiting rankings:
#53 Boise State
[b]#62 UCF
#68 Memphis
#69 Cincinnati
#72 South Florida

We have squandered a lot of talent.


The ladies have told Bill Dazzle, over many years, the opposite of this. And I shall let the posters and readers of this board ponder that one.
This is the post of the day!
11-21-2020 11:32 PM
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slhNavy91 Online
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Post: #56
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-21-2020 10:05 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 09:17 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to the "separation" of the AAC from the other G5, and particularly from the MWC, it might be too easy to simply compare wins. In that respect, there likely hasn't been much separation between the American and the Mountain West. As such, I would be curious to see where the AAC and MWC compare regarding the following:

* Average number of four-star recruits (and three-star recruits) the leagues have landed the past five seasons.

* Number of programs in the top 60 for team ranking in recruiting the past five seasons.


* Average number of teams each week in the Top 25 the past five seasons.

* Average head coach salary

* Average assistant coach salary

* Average league-wide attendance (throwing out the high and low marks)

* Average number of players drafted into the NFL the past five seasons

When all these metrics are considered, I would think the AAC has established a clear separation from the MWC. I'm biased as a Cincy and Memphis fan, but I simply feel based on my talks with friends and acquaintances who know college sport that the perception is that the AAC has created rather notable separation the past five years or so.

It's an interesting debate and somewhat subjective. I hugely respect the MWC. My father served in the Air Force in the 1950s. He was stationed in New Mexico and attended college at New Mexico Highland University while doing his military service. He likes the MWC team, particularly Wyoming (for some odd reason).

But the American continues to seemingly get better while the MWC seems to have reached a plateau of sorts. Maybe I'm wrong. Somebody show me the light.

Recruiting rankings answer part I.

I am not an in-the-weeds recruitinik. As a Navy fan, since we are just different, it doesn't offer a high ROI.

I have previously grabbed this datapoint though...advanced stats guy Bill Connelly does SP+. Before he moved from SBNation to ESPN, he posted what he uses for multi-year recruiting, to factor into his pre-season ratings. Before the 2019 season, he posted the details on his weighted four-year recruiting rankings."67 percent this year’s class, 15 percent last year’s, 15 percent the year before that, three percent the year before that." Pretty specific to his other statistical analysis, but provides some insight to your question. Here AAC and mwc in his weighted 2016-2019 recruiting rankings:
#53 Boise State
#62 UCF
#68 Memphis
#69 Cincinnati
#72 South Florida
#73 SMU
#74 Houston
#77 ECU

#79 Colorado State
#86 San Diego State
#89 Tulane
#92 Nevada
#93 Fresno State
#94 Temple
#97 Utah State
#98 Tulsa
#102 Hawaii
#104 Wyoming
#107 UNLV
#109 San Jose State
#111 Air Force
#120 Navy
#121 New Mexico

For comparison, here are the two conferences in the 2020 rankings by 247Sports:
#41 Cincinnati
#65 Boise State
#66 Memphis
#69 Tulane
#70 SMU
#72 Houston
#74 ECU
#75 UCF

#80 UNLV
#95 San Diego State
#101 Temple
#105 New Mexico
#107 Air Force
#109 USF
#110 Colorado State
#114 Fresno State
#116 Tulsa
#117 Wyoming
#118 San Jose State
#119 Nevada
#122 Utah State
#125 Hawaii
#126 Navy

Someone else on here may already stuff spreadsheet-ed out. I haven't yet, but I probably will now that you've got my interest.

From a quick look at other years, though, the big picture will be the same:
The top half-ish of the AAC will be around #50-75. One or two mwc will be within the range of the AAC's top half. Could even be best, Boise State has beaten all the AAC in at least one of those years. There will also be one or two each from the other G4 conferences in the AAC's top half range. And only the worst one or two of the AAC will be outside the top half of the mwc (or any other G4 conference).

That's the story of just about any program metric you look at - attendance, budgets, coaches' salaries. A couple G4s might sneak into the top half of the AAC. The worst AAC program is mid-pack of the G4s. Any metric, pick the top ten, twelve, or fourteen to make some "best of the rest" conference, and half or more will be AAC.

Recruiting Rank Answer part II

2020 recruiting class, average ranking: AAC 83.5 mwc 106.4 (only Boise in AAC top half)
2019 recruiting class, average ranking: AAC 84.5 mwc 97.1 (only Boise in AAC top half)
2018 recruiting class, average ranking: AAC 78.3 mwc 96.9 (2, Boise and SDSU, in AAC top half)
2017 recruiting class, average ranking: AAC 80.2 mwc 93.7 (3, Boise CSU and SDSU, in AAC top half)
2016 recruiting class, average ranking: AAC 72.6 mwc 91.2 (only Boise in AAC top half)

5 year average of average ranking: AAC 79.8 mwc 97.1

From 247Sports
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2020 09:56 AM by slhNavy91.)
11-22-2020 09:54 AM
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bill dazzle Online
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Post: #57
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-21-2020 11:06 AM)BKTopper Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 06:57 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 03:33 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 03:24 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 12:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Eh, the Liberty Bowl is a quasi-campus stadium. Close enough, LOL.


Good point. The Liberty Bowl is considerably physically closer to the UofM campus than Raymond James Stadium is to the USF campus.

My brother and I saw both the stadium and USF campus when we visited Tampa in the late aughts. We were hugely impressed by the sheer size (acreage, number of buildings, students walking, etc.) of USF. That is a beast of a university.

Glad you got to see it. USF-Tampa is a huge campus, at one point in the 1980s it was the largest in terms of acreage in the country, and yet it doesn't sprawl disconnectedly. Just about all of it fits within Fowler avenue on the south, Fletcher avenue on the north, 30th street to the west, and 50th street to the east. That's about 1 mile north to south and almost 2 miles east to west.

Institutionally, we've never been better. USF was a decent school when I attended from the early 1980s to the mid-1990s, but when I go back to campus about 75% of it is unrecognizable these days. Hundreds and hundreds of millions have been spent upgrading basically everything.

We just need a football team the university can be proud of, LOL.


I have seen/driven through/toured in person at least one-third of the campuses of P5 schools and another 12 or so collectively from the Big East and the American. USF likely ranks in the top five for me in terms of how it elicited an "oh my gosh, this is massive" response. It is eye-popping.

My brother (as you might know by now) attended Indiana University. That's another one that impresses due to sheer size and number of buildings and people.

The University of Central Florida and the University of Texas (both of which I've seen) are big time too.

USF is a distinctive campus due to many factors and the university is a rising academic power.

The Indiana Memorial Union building is a MILE LONG, and made entirely of limestone. Breathtaking campus (native Hoosier myself).


Oh, yes. That is a very impressive building. But I can't find any info regarding if it's a mile long. That seems excessive.

From Wiki:

The Indiana Memorial Union was dedicated on June 13, 1932. At nearly 500,000 square feet (46,000 m2), it is one of the world's largest student unions.[1] The IMU contains a hotel, restaurants, a bookstore, a bowling alley, a movie theater, a beauty salon, an electronics store and gathering spaces for lecturers, meetings, conferences and performances. The building also houses IU's student government offices within the Student Activities Tower, where as many as 50 campus organizations conduct regular meetings.
11-22-2020 10:33 AM
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slhNavy91 Online
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Post: #58
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-19-2020 09:17 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to the "separation" of the AAC from the other G5, and particularly from the MWC, it might be too easy to simply compare wins. In that respect, there likely hasn't been much separation between the American and the Mountain West. As such, I would be curious to see where the AAC and MWC compare regarding the following:

* Average number of four-star recruits (and three-star recruits) the leagues have landed the past five seasons.

* Number of programs in the top 60 for team ranking in recruiting the past five seasons.

* Average number of teams each week in the Top 25 the past five seasons.

* Average head coach salary

* Average assistant coach salary

* Average league-wide attendance (throwing out the high and low marks)

* Average number of players drafted into the NFL the past five seasons

When all these metrics are considered, I would think the AAC has established a clear separation from the MWC. I'm biased as a Cincy and Memphis fan, but I simply feel based on my talks with friends and acquaintances who know college sport that the perception is that the AAC has created rather notable separation the past five years or so.

It's an interesting debate and somewhat subjective. I hugely respect the MWC. My father served in the Air Force in the 1950s. He was stationed in New Mexico and attended college at New Mexico Highland University while doing his military service. He likes the MWC team, particularly Wyoming (for some odd reason).

But the American continues to seemingly get better while the MWC seems to have reached a plateau of sorts. Maybe I'm wrong. Somebody show me the light.

2020 NFL Draft picks: AAC 17 mwc 10
2019 NFL Draft picks: AAC 11 mwc 10
2018 NFL Draft picks: AAC 18 mwc 5
2017 NFL Draft picks: AAC 15 mwc 8
2016 NFL Draft picks: AAC 10 mwc 9

5-year average: AAC 14.2 mwc 8.4
11-22-2020 10:37 AM
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bill dazzle Online
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Post: #59
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-21-2020 11:32 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(11-21-2020 11:30 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(11-21-2020 10:35 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-21-2020 10:05 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  
(11-19-2020 09:17 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to the "separation" of the AAC from the other G5, and particularly from the MWC, it might be too easy to simply compare wins. In that respect, there likely hasn't been much separation between the American and the Mountain West. As such, I would be curious to see where the AAC and MWC compare regarding the following:

* Average number of four-star recruits (and three-star recruits) the leagues have landed the past five seasons.

* Number of programs in the top 60 for team ranking in recruiting the past five seasons.


* Average number of teams each week in the Top 25 the past five seasons.

* Average head coach salary

* Average assistant coach salary

* Average league-wide attendance (throwing out the high and low marks)

* Average number of players drafted into the NFL the past five seasons

When all these metrics are considered, I would think the AAC has established a clear separation from the MWC. I'm biased as a Cincy and Memphis fan, but I simply feel based on my talks with friends and acquaintances who know college sport that the perception is that the AAC has created rather notable separation the past five years or so.

It's an interesting debate and somewhat subjective. I hugely respect the MWC. My father served in the Air Force in the 1950s. He was stationed in New Mexico and attended college at New Mexico Highland University while doing his military service. He likes the MWC team, particularly Wyoming (for some odd reason).

But the American continues to seemingly get better while the MWC seems to have reached a plateau of sorts. Maybe I'm wrong. Somebody show me the light.

Recruiting rankings answer part I.

I am not an in-the-weeds recruitinik. As a Navy fan, since we are just different, it doesn't offer a high ROI.

I have previously grabbed this datapoint though...advanced stats guy Bill Connelly does SP+. Before he moved from SBNation to ESPN, he posted what he uses for multi-year recruiting, to factor into his pre-season ratings. Before the 2019 season, he posted the details on his weighted four-year recruiting rankings."67 percent this year’s class, 15 percent last year’s, 15 percent the year before that, three percent the year before that." Pretty specific to his other statistical analysis, but provides some insight to your question. Here AAC and mwc in his weighted 2016-2019 recruiting rankings:
#53 Boise State
[b]#62 UCF
#68 Memphis
#69 Cincinnati
#72 South Florida

We have squandered a lot of talent.


The ladies have told Bill Dazzle, over many years, the opposite of this. And I shall let the posters and readers of this board ponder that one.
This is the post of the day!


I had a few beers in me when I posted that last night. I probably should not have but thanks for the kind words, cubucks.
11-22-2020 10:39 AM
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slhNavy91 Online
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Post: #60
RE: The non-P5 FB teams are surpassing expectations to a greater and greater extent.
(11-19-2020 09:17 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As to the "separation" of the AAC from the other G5, and particularly from the MWC, it might be too easy to simply compare wins. In that respect, there likely hasn't been much separation between the American and the Mountain West. As such, I would be curious to see where the AAC and MWC compare regarding the following:

* Average number of four-star recruits (and three-star recruits) the leagues have landed the past five seasons.

* Number of programs in the top 60 for team ranking in recruiting the past five seasons.

* Average number of teams each week in the Top 25 the past five seasons.

* Average head coach salary

* Average assistant coach salary

* Average league-wide attendance (throwing out the high and low marks)

* Average number of players drafted into the NFL the past five seasons

When all these metrics are considered, I would think the AAC has established a clear separation from the MWC. I'm biased as a Cincy and Memphis fan, but I simply feel based on my talks with friends and acquaintances who know college sport that the perception is that the AAC has created rather notable separation the past five years or so.

It's an interesting debate and somewhat subjective. I hugely respect the MWC. My father served in the Air Force in the 1950s. He was stationed in New Mexico and attended college at New Mexico Highland University while doing his military service. He likes the MWC team, particularly Wyoming (for some odd reason).

But the American continues to seemingly get better while the MWC seems to have reached a plateau of sorts. Maybe I'm wrong. Somebody show me the light.

Okay.
Recruiting - clear advantage AAC (even if 4-star recruits is a statistically difficult metric to use, clear advantage in team rankings).
Top 25 presence - clear advantage AAC
Head coach and assistant coach salaries - clear advantage AAC
Attendance - clear advantage AAC
NFL Draft picks clear advantage AAC

All of those demonstrated over five years (even if there is the rare year like the single time out of five when Boise State's recruiting ranking was ahead of all AAC teams, or the single time out of five when NFL draft picks was close).

At some point in the discussion I raised it - pick a metric, and there are generally only a couple of mwc/MAC/CUSA/SunBelt teams in the range of the top half of the AAC; and the worst AAC are still around middle of the pack of the mwc/MAC/CUSA/SunBelt.
That's what P6 is about - really, all the AAC has in common with those other four conferences is being left on the outside looking in at the creation of the CFP. While we don't hit the contract-bowl-conferences' numbers in all those metrics, we're a tweener. When the 2025-26 CFP restructure (not re-alignment, but restructure) judge the AAC on its own merits rather than hitting the easy button to lump the conference in with those others .
11-22-2020 06:31 PM
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