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Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
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Big Ron Buckeye Offline
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Post: #1
Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
https://bypass.theweek.com/articles-amp/...ege-sports

The only psuedo-stupid question the article poses is why have no football and men's basketball of the revenue generating variety on the chopping block... Obvious retort, because they bring in revenue dumb-ass. We've all known forever that at power 5 schools and frankly everywhere in the country that many programs exist simply because of the revenues of football, basketball, student fees and Title IX mandates. You can't act all doe-eyed when enrollments are down (making student-fees harder to collect) and the pandemic is forcing further loses in revenue that the non-revenue producers are first on the block. I personally like watching some non-revenue sports on BTN such as Ice Hockey, Volleyball, Lacrosse, Track & Field, Baseball (when a B1G team is good), and Wrestling. However, my interest doesn't magically make them produce revenue.
I think that if the pandemic continues to force closures and reduced crowd sizes (with the strange exception of protests) that schools will keep cutting sports until the average is like 2-5 men's sports (depending on revenue ability) and the balance being women's sports for Title IX with an eye on revenue producing potential.
The biggest shot across the bow has been Stanford cutting 11 (highly succesful) sports. If Stanford, the most successful athletic department for 30 years running is having to cut sports, what the hell is going to happen at a MAC school? Anyway the conclusion is that college sports may look different until they clean up the balance sheets following the destruction of the pandemic. After a while things will come back...or at least we hope.
11-15-2020 10:05 AM
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gosports1 Offline
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RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
it seems the biggest expense for olympic sports is travel . In the grand scheme of things how much can it cost to maintain a soccer field or sponsor a XC team? Even track and field should be a relatively low cost. Perhaps they should eliminate some specialty coaches. Do they need a coach for pole vaulting and one for throwing? Maybe reduce scholarships in olympic sports? Is that any worse than cutting the sport entirely?
to take this in another direction could this crisis lead to more regionalized conferences?
11-15-2020 11:01 AM
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Native Georgian Offline
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RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
Timely and well-written article. Thanks for the link, BRB.

(11-15-2020 10:05 AM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  The only psuedo-stupid question the article poses is why have no football and men's basketball of the revenue generating variety on the chopping block... Obvious retort, because they bring in revenue dumb-ass.
I read it differently. To me, the author wasn’t posing it as a question, but simply noted the difference.


Quote:I think that if the pandemic continues to force closures and reduced crowd sizes (with the strange exception of protests) that schools will keep cutting sports until the average is like 2-5 men's sports (depending on revenue ability) and the balance being women's sports for Title IX with an eye on revenue producing potential.
Agreed. We are headed for a new reality in which non-revenue sports will be relegated to the level of intramural campus activities. The students who participate in those activities will not receive any compensation for doing so.

Quote:If Stanford, the most successful athletic department for 30 years running is having to cut sports, what the hell is going to happen at a MAC school?
My best guess is they will compete at the FCS level if they’re “lucky”, or at the Division II or Division III level if they’re not.

Quote:college sports may look different until they clean up the balance sheets following the destruction of the pandemic. After a while things will come back...or at least we hope.
Obviously, I don’t know what will happen in the future, anymore than you or anyone else knows. But for right now, my best guess is that college sports are never going to get back to the same place they were in 9 months ago. The money just isn’t there, the interest from the public, alumni, and students just isn’t there.
11-15-2020 11:13 AM
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bullet Offline
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RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
The schools sponsoring 25-35 programs really made no sense. And the fact is that many of these schools have non-NCAA programs in those sports. I happened to be over at the Emory University campus a couple of years back and there was a club sport tennis tournament going on. Virginia Tech was one school I remembered. There were also schools from the states of Alabama, North Carolina and Florida as well as Georgia.

I think the University of Texas has about 30 club sports, from ice hockey to soccer to tennis to Quidditch.

It is disappointing when schools cut core sports like track and field.

They aren't even discussing one obvious step--cutting football scholarships from 85 to somewhere between 60 and 75. The big schools want the consistency from having 85 scholarship players, but there really is no need for so many. With walk-ons, the schools have well over 100. At one point in time, traveling squads were limited to 60 players in Division I. I think there are still limits in the lower divisions.
(This post was last modified: 11-15-2020 11:25 AM by bullet.)
11-15-2020 11:24 AM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
This might be healthier for US Olympians in the long run. Let athletes who are talented in other disciplines go professional, or move into residency training programs at a younger age. Soccer has already done this, it's time for a lot of other sports to catch up.

This might require more upfront funding for certain sports, either from the public (donations or government support), or sponsorships. It might be a while before we see professional circuits in swimming and archery take hold in this country, but ultimately that's what needs to happen.
11-15-2020 11:35 AM
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RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
(11-15-2020 10:05 AM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  https://bypass.theweek.com/articles-amp/...ege-sports

The only psuedo-stupid question the article poses is why have no football and men's basketball of the revenue generating variety on the chopping block... Obvious retort, because they bring in revenue dumb-ass.

What's funny is that a lot of the same people that were adamant football season needed to be cancelled (like USA Today's Christine Brennan) are now acting like olympic sports are being sacrificed on the altar of football and basketball. It's not the opinion of someone interested in truth as much as watching college football and men's basketball as we know it burn to the ground. And these same people are the ones that are adamant players need to be paid (which will also inevitably lead to non-revenue sports getting the axe).

And I don't buy for a second it's going to hurt the US in the olympics. The top athletes in these sports will still get scholarships.
(This post was last modified: 11-15-2020 11:42 AM by EigenEagle.)
11-15-2020 11:41 AM
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RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
(11-15-2020 11:41 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  a lot of the same people that were adamant football season needed to be cancelled (like USA Today's Christine Brennan) are now acting like olympic sports are being sacrificed on the altar of football and basketball. It's not the opinion of someone interested in truth as much as watching college football and men's basketball as we know it burn to the ground. And these same people are the ones that are adamant players need to be paid (which will also inevitably lead to non-revenue sports getting the axe).
Christine Brennan has made it clear that she is — first and foremost — a political polemicist. She frames her political opinions in a sports-context, that’s all.

Agreed on the impact that paying players will have. A lot of the little guys simply Can. Not. Afford. It. and they will have to relegate themselves to a lower, non-professional level of competition, or maybe just give it up altogether. ULM might be the poster child for that, but it won’t be just them faced with that choice. Will be interested to see what the Christine Brennans have to say when those shoes start to drop.
11-15-2020 11:58 AM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
Hopefully this contraction in revenue will lead to reconsideration of geographic proximity as a larger criteria in conference alignment. With so much excess revenue, conference expansion is forcing non-revenue sports to dramatically increase their travel costs.

Some low-revenue sports would be better-off financially if the football/basketball based conference were not sponsoring the NCAA competition. For P5 conferences with TV networks this probably creates issues...because there are sports (e.g., baseball, lacrosse, hockey, soccer, volleyball, etc.) that provide solid content for a channel.
11-15-2020 12:15 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
(11-15-2020 10:05 AM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  https://bypass.theweek.com/articles-amp/...ege-sports

The only psuedo-stupid question the article poses is why have no football and men's basketball of the revenue generating variety on the chopping block... Obvious retort, because they bring in revenue dumb-ass.

That's not really fair to the author. Most people reading these articles don't know college athletic department finances as well as CSNBBS readers. Most people have no idea, at all, how any of it works.

The beginning of the second question-and-answer:

Quote:Why only Olympic sports?
Administrators say football and basketball have escaped the ax because they generate the lion's share of most schools' athletic department revenue and support other sports programs that lose money. ....

What more do you want them to say?

Quote:Did losing the NCAA Tournament hurt?
Massively. ....
11-15-2020 05:02 PM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
(11-15-2020 11:24 AM)bullet Wrote:  The schools sponsoring 25-35 programs really made no sense. And the fact is that many of these schools have non-NCAA programs in those sports. I happened to be over at the Emory University campus a couple of years back and there was a club sport tennis tournament going on. Virginia Tech was one school I remembered. There were also schools from the states of Alabama, North Carolina and Florida as well as Georgia.

It makes sense for those schools willing to commit to it.

Georgetown University had 29 NCAA sports pre-COVID and was adding a 30th this fall. Nearly 12% of students are on an intercollegiate team and the ability to balance classes and competition isn't easy but adds to the campus environment.

Look at it another way. Some schools have 90 or 100 majors. Why not just teach the top 15 (business, government, engineering, English) and stop wasting time on philosophy or anthropology or Italian? Because a university is a collection of different disciplines working together. So too if you have a lot of sports.
11-15-2020 05:16 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
(11-15-2020 11:58 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 11:41 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  a lot of the same people that were adamant football season needed to be cancelled (like USA Today's Christine Brennan) are now acting like olympic sports are being sacrificed on the altar of football and basketball. It's not the opinion of someone interested in truth as much as watching college football and men's basketball as we know it burn to the ground. And these same people are the ones that are adamant players need to be paid (which will also inevitably lead to non-revenue sports getting the axe).
Christine Brennan has made it clear that she is — first and foremost — a political polemicist. She frames her political opinions in a sports-context, that’s all.

Agreed on the impact that paying players will have. A lot of the little guys simply Can. Not. Afford. It. and they will have to relegate themselves to a lower, non-professional level of competition, or maybe just give it up altogether. ULM might be the poster child for that, but it won’t be just them faced with that choice. Will be interested to see what the Christine Brennans have to say when those shoes start to drop.


Washington State can't afford paying the players as well. All we would see is schools like Alabama going for the national championship every year in football, or a Duke's men's basketball in the final 4 every year. It will kill college sports for good.
11-15-2020 05:30 PM
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RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
(11-15-2020 05:16 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 11:24 AM)bullet Wrote:  The schools sponsoring 25-35 programs really made no sense. And the fact is that many of these schools have non-NCAA programs in those sports. I happened to be over at the Emory University campus a couple of years back and there was a club sport tennis tournament going on. Virginia Tech was one school I remembered. There were also schools from the states of Alabama, North Carolina and Florida as well as Georgia.

It makes sense for those schools willing to commit to it.

Georgetown University had 29 NCAA sports pre-COVID and was adding a 30th this fall. Nearly 12% of students are on an intercollegiate team and the ability to balance classes and competition isn't easy but adds to the campus environment.

Look at it another way. Some schools have 90 or 100 majors. Why not just teach the top 15 (business, government, engineering, English) and stop wasting time on philosophy or anthropology or Italian? Because a university is a collection of different disciplines working together. So too if you have a lot of sports.

Why do intercollegiate in relatively obscure sports and make the students pay for it?

2 basketball m&w
4 tennis m&w
6 golf m&w
8 track m&w
10 indoor track m&w
12 cross country m&w
14 swimming m&w
16 baseball and softball
18 soccer m&w
19 football
20 volleyball women

So once you've got to 20 you've covered all the nationally popular sports. Beyond that you have:
hockey m
wrestling m
rowing women
gymnastics women
lacrosse women
beach volleyball women
and the rare opposite sex:
hockey w
wrestling w
rowing m
gymnastics m
lacrosse m
volleyball men

And looking at Ohio St. they add
Fencing M&W
Pistol M&W
Rifle M&W
Spirit M&W (cheerleading)
Synchronized swimming W

How many of those really make sense having intercollegiate competition given how unusual those are and how few schools do it?
(This post was last modified: 11-15-2020 06:22 PM by bullet.)
11-15-2020 06:21 PM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
(11-15-2020 06:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  Why do intercollegiate in relatively obscure sports and make the students pay for it?

So once you've got to 20 you've covered all the nationally popular sports. Beyond that you have:
hockey m
wrestling m
rowing women
gymnastics women
lacrosse women
beach volleyball women
and the rare opposite sex:
hockey w
wrestling w
rowing m
gymnastics m
lacrosse m
volleyball men

And looking at Ohio St. they add
Fencing M&W
Pistol M&W
Rifle M&W
Spirit M&W (cheerleading)
Synchronized swimming W

How many of those really make sense having intercollegiate competition given how unusual those are and how few schools do it?

Georgetown sponsors sports that fit three criteria: 1) a long standing, traditional sport, 2) a sport the Big East sponsors, or 3) a sport with demonstrated student interest.

Men's Hockey: No (No facilities, no tradition in mid-Atlantic.)
Men's Wrestling: No.
Women's Rowing: Yes. (Having a river next to campus helps.)
Women's Gymnastics: No. (Last sport dropped at GU, 1982.)
Women's Lacrosse: Yes. Lots of teams on East coast.
Women's Beach Volleyball: No. (No beaches in DC.)
Women's hockey: No. (No facilities.)
Women's Wrestling: No
Men's Rowing: Yes. (Long standing sport on campus, dates to 1890's.)
Men's Gymnastics: No
Men's Lacrosse: Yes. (Lots of teams on East coast.)
Men's Volleyball: No.
(This post was last modified: 11-15-2020 07:01 PM by DFW HOYA.)
11-15-2020 06:58 PM
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ccd494 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
There's a big part of me that feels like if P5/FBS football and basketball are money making, clearly there's a market for a private entity to take over and run them as actual professional leagues that provide compensation and security to the players without the amateurism fiction.

Concomitant with that, public universities SHOULD be offering underfunded/non-revenue sports, because they are not businesses but public trusts that exist to provide opportunities that otherwise would not be served by the private marketplace, be them academic or extra-curricular.
11-16-2020 10:03 AM
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RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
What makes no sense is Clemson dropping men's cross country, indoor and outdoor track on one side of the spectrum, and Iowa and Minnesota dropping several sports - and on the other UC Santa Barbara breaking ground on a new tennis facility while cutting nothing.

We can't be better off financially than these P5 institutions, can we?
11-16-2020 10:23 AM
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RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
(11-15-2020 10:05 AM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  https://bypass.theweek.com/articles-amp/...ege-sports

The only psuedo-stupid question the article poses is why have no football and men's basketball of the revenue generating variety on the chopping block... Obvious retort, because they bring in revenue dumb-ass. We've all known forever that at power 5 schools and frankly everywhere in the country that many programs exist simply because of the revenues of football, basketball, student fees and Title IX mandates. You can't act all doe-eyed when enrollments are down (making student-fees harder to collect) and the pandemic is forcing further loses in revenue that the non-revenue producers are first on the block. I personally like watching some non-revenue sports on BTN such as Ice Hockey, Volleyball, Lacrosse, Track & Field, Baseball (when a B1G team is good), and Wrestling. However, my interest doesn't magically make them produce revenue.
I think that if the pandemic continues to force closures and reduced crowd sizes (with the strange exception of protests) that schools will keep cutting sports until the average is like 2-5 men's sports (depending on revenue ability) and the balance being women's sports for Title IX with an eye on revenue producing potential.
The biggest shot across the bow has been Stanford cutting 11 (highly succesful) sports. If Stanford, the most successful athletic department for 30 years running is having to cut sports, what the hell is going to happen at a MAC school? Anyway the conclusion is that college sports may look different until they clean up the balance sheets following the destruction of the pandemic. After a while things will come back...or at least we hope.

I'll believe Big Ten schools are truly hurting once they cut some of the big ones: volleyball, wrestling, or men's hockey.

Minnesota cutting men's tennis, gymnastics and indoor track isn't going to do it - although apparently 41 women's scholarships will be lost too

https://m.startribune.com/u-will-drop-41...572602682/

The U is projecting major revenue losses because of the coronavirus pandemic, and it is looking to save money in many ways. The school also needed to bring the gender balance of Gophers athletes into alignment with the student body. The current undergraduate enrollment is 54% women and 46% men.

But dropping the men’s programs put the ratio at 59% women and 41% men, forcing the U to shrink women’s rosters to get to the proper ratio.
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2020 10:33 AM by jdgaucho.)
11-16-2020 10:25 AM
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RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
11-16-2020 10:42 AM
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RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
(11-15-2020 06:58 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 06:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  Why do intercollegiate in relatively obscure sports and make the students pay for it?

So once you've got to 20 you've covered all the nationally popular sports. Beyond that you have:
hockey m
wrestling m
rowing women
gymnastics women
lacrosse women
beach volleyball women
and the rare opposite sex:
hockey w
wrestling w
rowing m
gymnastics m
lacrosse m
volleyball men

And looking at Ohio St. they add
Fencing M&W
Pistol M&W
Rifle M&W
Spirit M&W (cheerleading)
Synchronized swimming W

How many of those really make sense having intercollegiate competition given how unusual those are and how few schools do it?

Georgetown sponsors sports that fit three criteria: 1) a long standing, traditional sport, 2) a sport the Big East sponsors, or 3) a sport with demonstrated student interest.

Men's Hockey: No (No facilities, no tradition in mid-Atlantic.)
Men's Wrestling: No.
Women's Rowing: Yes. (Having a river next to campus helps.)
Women's Gymnastics: No. (Last sport dropped at GU, 1982.)
Women's Lacrosse: Yes. Lots of teams on East coast.
Women's Beach Volleyball: No. (No beaches in DC.)
Women's hockey: No. (No facilities.)
Women's Wrestling: No
Men's Rowing: Yes. (Long standing sport on campus, dates to 1890's.)
Men's Gymnastics: No
Men's Lacrosse: Yes. (Lots of teams on East coast.)
Men's Volleyball: No.

It also helps with campus diversity.

I went to a party at OSU once and met several fencing players. It was really cool meeting some world class athletes.

Schools go to ridiculous lengths to make sure they get a tuba player, or a kid from Wyoming. It's for the same reason.
11-16-2020 10:48 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
(11-16-2020 10:03 AM)ccd494 Wrote:  There's a big part of me that feels like if P5/FBS football and basketball are money making, clearly there's a market for a private entity to take over and run them as actual professional leagues that provide compensation and security to the players without the amateurism fiction.

Consider that the amateurism fiction is a big part of the business model. Google up "Jerry Seinfeld Cheering For Laundry." The names on the back barely matter, the names on the front matter a lot.

If you move from the wink-wink "scholar-athlete" Ohio State Buckeyes to the mid-level professional Ohio Scarlet and Gray, you're liable to see ticket sales and TV revenues drop to XFL/AAF/Big 3 levels.

(11-16-2020 10:23 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  What makes no sense is Clemson dropping men's cross country, indoor and outdoor track on one side of the spectrum, and Iowa and Minnesota dropping several sports - and on the other UC Santa Barbara breaking ground on a new tennis facility while cutting nothing.

We can't be better off financially than these P5 institutions, can we?

You guys got a big fat donation for a tennis center. Maybe you can talk to the donor about using that tennis complex as a multi-sport facility somehow, but you've gotta work that out with your billionaire.

https://www.noozhawk.com/article/john_an...ex_at_ucsb
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2020 11:39 AM by johnbragg.)
11-16-2020 11:36 AM
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Post: #20
RE: Olympic Sports are getting Axed at breakneck speed
If we are getting rid of the sports that more average student/athlete compete in, what is the point of college athletics anymore?
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2020 12:21 PM by dbackjon.)
11-16-2020 11:43 AM
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