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Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
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BKTopper Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-15-2020 03:51 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 10:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 09:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think you if you asked the ADs at every Sunbelt school if they’d rather be in SBC or in a conference with the 7 respective C-USA division schools, they’d pick the C-USA division. What holds C-USA back is the presence of the other division.

Lesson here: a big footprint isn’t a good thing for the G5.

CUSA is just a weird conference. Texas cluster and schools with nothing to do with Texas.

The schools that joined CUSA in the 2010-2014 time period thought they were buying into a conference that was going to be more like MWC 2.0.

1-2 million per school TV deal. 2-3 NCAA bids per year ect.

They ended up in something with MAC level FB and SBC level BB.

Hard disagree. Both leagues are one-bid, but for totally different reasons. SBC doesn't care about basketball, so all they have is UALR (which does a lot with a little).

CUSA has the product, but over half the conference has the football-first SBC mentality. Then you're left with 6 or 7 schools that do care about basketball duking it out for one friggin autobid.

Some of the marketz adds were supposed to help basketball, but hasn't panned out (Charlotte, Old Dominion).

It's basically an unwritten rule at this point that no matter the seeding the CUSA school will "upset" their first round NCAA tourney opponent (Marshall, MTSU, etc.) SBC can't say that.

That said, the underperformance of CUSA whatever-dot-whatever has been astounding on the basketball side of things.
11-17-2020 09:10 AM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-17-2020 09:10 AM)BKTopper Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 03:51 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 10:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 09:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think you if you asked the ADs at every Sunbelt school if they’d rather be in SBC or in a conference with the 7 respective C-USA division schools, they’d pick the C-USA division. What holds C-USA back is the presence of the other division.

Lesson here: a big footprint isn’t a good thing for the G5.

CUSA is just a weird conference. Texas cluster and schools with nothing to do with Texas.

The schools that joined CUSA in the 2010-2014 time period thought they were buying into a conference that was going to be more like MWC 2.0.

1-2 million per school TV deal. 2-3 NCAA bids per year ect.

They ended up in something with MAC level FB and SBC level BB.



Some of the marketz adds were supposed to help basketball, but hasn't panned out (Charlotte, Old Dominion).

Oh, I know a WKU fan isn't saying that ODU isn't helping on the basketball side. That's rich. We're certainly not content as a fanbase with our current performance but it's still been consistently better than any other team in our conference.
11-17-2020 09:54 AM
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Blazer4Life14 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
Can we go to the Sun Belt?
11-17-2020 10:47 AM
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SkullyMaroo Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-17-2020 09:10 AM)BKTopper Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 03:51 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 10:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 09:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think you if you asked the ADs at every Sunbelt school if they’d rather be in SBC or in a conference with the 7 respective C-USA division schools, they’d pick the C-USA division. What holds C-USA back is the presence of the other division.

Lesson here: a big footprint isn’t a good thing for the G5.

CUSA is just a weird conference. Texas cluster and schools with nothing to do with Texas.

The schools that joined CUSA in the 2010-2014 time period thought they were buying into a conference that was going to be more like MWC 2.0.

1-2 million per school TV deal. 2-3 NCAA bids per year ect.

They ended up in something with MAC level FB and SBC level BB.

Hard disagree. Both leagues are one-bid, but for totally different reasons. SBC doesn't care about basketball, so all they have is UALR (which does a lot with a little).

CUSA has the product, but over half the conference has the football-first SBC mentality. Then you're left with 6 or 7 schools that do care about basketball duking it out for one friggin autobid.

Some of the marketz adds were supposed to help basketball, but hasn't panned out (Charlotte, Old Dominion).

It's basically an unwritten rule at this point that no matter the seeding the CUSA school will "upset" their first round NCAA tourney opponent (Marshall, MTSU, etc.) SBC can't say that.

That said, the underperformance of CUSA whatever-dot-whatever has been astounding on the basketball side of things.

Little Rock, UTA, and Georgia State have had good teams in basketball recently for the Sun Belt. South Alabama has been down, but looked more like South Alabama of years’ past under Coach Riley last year down the stretch. The Jags entered the 2020 SBC Tourney as the #2 seed with a bye to the semifinals on an 8-game win streak. At least the Sun Belt has 2 less teams they have to compete with for the one NCAA bid.
11-17-2020 11:58 AM
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Realignment Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
I don't see Conference USA breaking up. I'm sure they would love to dump UTEP since they are out on their own island, never understood why they didn't add New Mexico State since it would've at least made a travel partner visit over there much easier. They really need to get their Tier 1, 2 & 3 rights in order. They've basically sold the Tier 3 rights to ESPN+ which is a smart move and they should try to get CBS Sports Network more engaged in their programming since they don't sub-license anymore American Athletic games. Conference USA has to hope that FOX Sports or ESPN would want the rest of the programming, now that the Mountain West is programming on FS2, that could give C-USA an opening and ESPN seems happy to have them on the ESPN+ platform and that's it.
11-17-2020 02:42 PM
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BKTopper Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-17-2020 11:58 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 09:10 AM)BKTopper Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 03:51 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 10:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 09:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think you if you asked the ADs at every Sunbelt school if they’d rather be in SBC or in a conference with the 7 respective C-USA division schools, they’d pick the C-USA division. What holds C-USA back is the presence of the other division.

Lesson here: a big footprint isn’t a good thing for the G5.

CUSA is just a weird conference. Texas cluster and schools with nothing to do with Texas.

The schools that joined CUSA in the 2010-2014 time period thought they were buying into a conference that was going to be more like MWC 2.0.

1-2 million per school TV deal. 2-3 NCAA bids per year ect.

They ended up in something with MAC level FB and SBC level BB.

Hard disagree. Both leagues are one-bid, but for totally different reasons. SBC doesn't care about basketball, so all they have is UALR (which does a lot with a little).

CUSA has the product, but over half the conference has the football-first SBC mentality. Then you're left with 6 or 7 schools that do care about basketball duking it out for one friggin autobid.

Some of the marketz adds were supposed to help basketball, but hasn't panned out (Charlotte, Old Dominion).

It's basically an unwritten rule at this point that no matter the seeding the CUSA school will "upset" their first round NCAA tourney opponent (Marshall, MTSU, etc.) SBC can't say that.

That said, the underperformance of CUSA whatever-dot-whatever has been astounding on the basketball side of things.

Little Rock, UTA, and Georgia State have had good teams in basketball recently for the Sun Belt. South Alabama has been down, but looked more like South Alabama of years’ past under Coach Riley last year down the stretch. The Jags entered the 2020 SBC Tourney as the #2 seed with a bye to the semifinals on an 8-game win streak. At least the Sun Belt has 2 less teams they have to compete with for the one NCAA bid.

I did forget about Georgia State, my bad.
11-17-2020 03:14 PM
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Herd6993 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
My personal preference would be an eastern based conference made up of the following: WKU, MTSU, UAB, Marshall, ODU, UNCC, Appy State, GA Southern, GA State, Coastal, James Madison and either Liberty or FAU. Pretty solid league and a fanbase in at least one major sport (no disrespect to Southern Miss or La Tech).
Realistically this is not going to happen so I think CUSA should try and improve the current situation.

The biggest complaints seem to be about the current commissioner and her lack of vision, eastern based basketball schools not having the conference tournament within driving distance ( these schools are usually at the top of attendance and performance), schools with fanbases not having enough games in close travel proximity or who their fans have a recognizable interest in and a perceived bias toward the Texas schools influenced by where the Conference HQ is located. To calm some of this dissention here is what I would do.


1. Get a new Commish who has a vision and can convince the bulk of the Presidents to follow that vision.
2. Find a way to have the Basketball Tournament at least once out of every three years near the majority of your basketball schools (WKU, Marshall, ODU, and MTSU).
3. Expand to sixteen with the idea of saving cost on Travel to offset the new additions share of TV. The new additions would be New Mexico State (travel partner for UTEP) and either Liberty or James Madison (provide a close travel game for UNCC, Marshall, and ODU).
4. With sixteen schools you would be able to have a nine game conference schedule in football playing the seven schools in your division plus two from the other division. In other words Marshall would be only going to New Mexico State and UTEP once every eight years.
5. With sixteen schools you would be able to have an eighteen game conference schedule in basketball playing each school in your division twice and four schools from the other division. In other words Marshall would only have to visit UTEP/New Mexico State once every four years.
11-17-2020 03:53 PM
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BKTopper Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-17-2020 09:54 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 09:10 AM)BKTopper Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 03:51 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 10:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 09:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think you if you asked the ADs at every Sunbelt school if they’d rather be in SBC or in a conference with the 7 respective C-USA division schools, they’d pick the C-USA division. What holds C-USA back is the presence of the other division.

Lesson here: a big footprint isn’t a good thing for the G5.

CUSA is just a weird conference. Texas cluster and schools with nothing to do with Texas.

The schools that joined CUSA in the 2010-2014 time period thought they were buying into a conference that was going to be more like MWC 2.0.

1-2 million per school TV deal. 2-3 NCAA bids per year ect.

They ended up in something with MAC level FB and SBC level BB.



Some of the marketz adds were supposed to help basketball, but hasn't panned out (Charlotte, Old Dominion).

Oh, I know a WKU fan isn't saying that ODU isn't helping on the basketball side. That's rich. We're certainly not content as a fanbase with our current performance but it's still been consistently better than any other team in our conference.

I didn't mean it as a dig. I was being lazy and didn't explain what I meant.

None of us are "the new Memphis", and it would be good for all of us if there were one.

There's too much parity at the top, and sometimes the better team has one bad night in a suburban Dallas football practice facility and ends up not dancing.

There needs to be one team that is heads and shoulders above the others to bring some attention and excitement to the conference. That hasn't happened yet, but could any moment. And it 100% could be Old Dominion. It just hasn't happened yet.
11-17-2020 06:05 PM
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THUNDERStruck73 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-17-2020 03:53 PM)Herd6993 Wrote:  My personal preference would be an eastern based conference made up of the following: WKU, MTSU, UAB, Marshall, ODU, UNCC, Appy State, GA Southern, GA State, Coastal, James Madison and either Liberty or FAU. Pretty solid league and a fanbase in at least one major sport (no disrespect to Southern Miss or La Tech).
Realistically this is not going to happen so I think CUSA should try and improve the current situation.

The biggest complaints seem to be about the current commissioner and her lack of vision, eastern based basketball schools not having the conference tournament within driving distance ( these schools are usually at the top of attendance and performance), schools with fanbases not having enough games in close travel proximity or who their fans have a recognizable interest in and a perceived bias toward the Texas schools influenced by where the Conference HQ is located. To calm some of this dissention here is what I would do.


1. Get a new Commish who has a vision and can convince the bulk of the Presidents to follow that vision.
2. Find a way to have the Basketball Tournament at least once out of every three years near the majority of your basketball schools (WKU, Marshall, ODU, and MTSU).
3. Expand to sixteen with the idea of saving cost on Travel to offset the new additions share of TV. The new additions would be New Mexico State (travel partner for UTEP) and either Liberty or James Madison (provide a close travel game for UNCC, Marshall, and ODU).
4. With sixteen schools you would be able to have a nine game conference schedule in football playing the seven schools in your division plus two from the other division. In other words Marshall would be only going to New Mexico State and UTEP once every eight years.
5. With sixteen schools you would be able to have an eighteen game conference schedule in basketball playing each school in your division twice and four schools from the other division. In other words Marshall would only have to visit UTEP/New Mexico State once every four years.

#1 YES
#2 YES

Everything else - NO!
(This post was last modified: 11-17-2020 06:42 PM by THUNDERStruck73.)
11-17-2020 06:42 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-17-2020 06:42 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 03:53 PM)Herd6993 Wrote:  My personal preference would be an eastern based conference made up of the following: WKU, MTSU, UAB, Marshall, ODU, UNCC, Appy State, GA Southern, GA State, Coastal, James Madison and either Liberty or FAU. Pretty solid league and a fanbase in at least one major sport (no disrespect to Southern Miss or La Tech).
Realistically this is not going to happen so I think CUSA should try and improve the current situation.

The biggest complaints seem to be about the current commissioner and her lack of vision, eastern based basketball schools not having the conference tournament within driving distance ( these schools are usually at the top of attendance and performance), schools with fanbases not having enough games in close travel proximity or who their fans have a recognizable interest in and a perceived bias toward the Texas schools influenced by where the Conference HQ is located. To calm some of this dissention here is what I would do.


1. Get a new Commish who has a vision and can convince the bulk of the Presidents to follow that vision.
2. Find a way to have the Basketball Tournament at least once out of every three years near the majority of your basketball schools (WKU, Marshall, ODU, and MTSU).
3. Expand to sixteen with the idea of saving cost on Travel to offset the new additions share of TV. The new additions would be New Mexico State (travel partner for UTEP) and either Liberty or James Madison (provide a close travel game for UNCC, Marshall, and ODU).
4. With sixteen schools you would be able to have a nine game conference schedule in football playing the seven schools in your division plus two from the other division. In other words Marshall would be only going to New Mexico State and UTEP once every eight years.
5. With sixteen schools you would be able to have an eighteen game conference schedule in basketball playing each school in your division twice and four schools from the other division. In other words Marshall would only have to visit UTEP/New Mexico State once every four years.

#1 YES
#2 YES

Everything else - NO!

Since when Marshall is a basketball school? The only ones that fit that profile based on history are UTEP, UAB, Western Kentucky, Old Dominion and Charlotte. The conference will have the tournament where the money is. If it's in Frisco, then it'll be there. Unlike bowls, conference tournaments are announced years in advance and you can plan ahead so I have never understood why people make a big deal out of it. Does it really matter if it's in Frisco, Biloxi, Las Vegas, Honolulu, Miami, etc if nobody is going to show up? El Paso and Birmingham are the only locations that can fill the arena, probably Norfolk too but they haven't given the chance to host it yet. As for the commissioner, it's the Presidents who keep her employed. They can reject every proposal she recommends and at the end, they approve it. It's them I blame not the commissioner.
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2020 12:57 AM by UTEPDallas.)
11-18-2020 12:56 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
C-USA made a tactical error in May 2012, when they replaced the 4 schools they lost with 6 replacements:

UTSA, UNT, and FIU were sensible adds—they were meant to replace the lost market/recruiting ground presence of the 2 Texas and 1 Florida schools they lost.

Adding all 3 of LA Tech, ODU, and Charlotte was a blunder. LA Tech stands out as the kind of pick you’d make if you’re going to go with the best available option. however you had ECU clamoring for an add that was travel friendly for them. So rather than picking one or the other they chose both and then rounded things off with a 2nd school near ECU.

Making expansion moves based on ECU’s desires proved to be a poor choice because they were gone 6 months later. C-USA had a chance to right their past wrongs after the departure of ECU and Tulane and stand pat at 12 but they didn’t—they went for the next 2 options on their pecking order list: MTSU and FAU.

The following Spring they substituted departing Tulsa with WKU.

To me, there were 2 critical points where C-USA could have fixed their expansion problem:

May 2012: they should have replaced on a 1:1 basis. Ideally, they should have taken the best available (LA Tech) and let ECU deal with it. After ECU and Tulane are gone MTSU and FAU get the call up and then WKU for Tulsa:

West: UTEP, UNT, UTSA, Rice, LA Tech, USM
East: UAB, MTSU, WKU, Marshall, FAU, FIU

The other option is Nov 2012: After going to 14 due to ECU’s insistence that ODU and Charlotte be added for their convenience, they choose not to expand and stand at 12. In April 2013, when they lose Tulsa they reload with MTSU. (I’m presuming they try to replace the lost Tenn presence rather than doubling down on southern Florida)

West: UTEP, UNT, UTSA, Rice, LA Tech, USM
East: UAB, MTSU, FIU, Charlotte, ODU, Marshall
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2020 10:04 AM by Fighting Muskie.)
11-18-2020 10:03 AM
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BePcr07 Online
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Post: #52
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-18-2020 10:03 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  C-USA made a tactical error in May 2012, when they replaced the 4 schools they lost with 6 replacements:

UTSA, UNT, and FIU were sensible adds—they were meant to replace the lost market/recruiting ground presence of the 2 Texas and 1 Florida schools they lost.

Adding all 3 of LA Tech, ODU, and Charlotte was a blunder. LA Tech stands out as the kind of pick you’d make if you’re going to go with the best available option. however you had ECU clamoring for an add that was travel friendly for them. So rather than picking one or the other they chose both and then rounded things off with a 2nd school near ECU.

Making expansion moves based on ECU’s desires proved to be a poor choice because they were gone 6 months later. C-USA had a chance to right their past wrongs after the departure of ECU and Tulane and stand pat at 12 but they didn’t—they went for the next 2 options on their pecking order list: MTSU and FAU.

The following Spring they substituted departing Tulsa with WKU.

To me, there were 2 critical points where C-USA could have fixed their expansion problem:

May 2012: they should have replaced on a 1:1 basis. Ideally, they should have taken the best available (LA Tech) and let ECU deal with it. After ECU and Tulane are gone MTSU and FAU get the call up and then WKU for Tulsa:

West: UTEP, UNT, UTSA, Rice, LA Tech, USM
East: UAB, MTSU, WKU, Marshall, FAU, FIU

The other option is Nov 2012: After going to 14 due to ECU’s insistence that ODU and Charlotte be added for their convenience, they choose not to expand and stand at 12. In April 2013, when they lose Tulsa they reload with MTSU. (I’m presuming they try to replace the lost Tenn presence rather than doubling down on southern Florida)

West: UTEP, UNT, UTSA, Rice, LA Tech, USM
East: UAB, MTSU, FIU, Charlotte, ODU, Marshall

If CUSA did not take in Charlotte or Old Dominion, would the Sun Belt have been interested?

Sun Belt
East: Appalachian St, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, Georgia St, Old Dominion
West: Arkansas St, South Alabama, Texas St, Troy, UL Lafayette, UL Monroe
11-18-2020 10:14 AM
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balanced_view Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-18-2020 10:03 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  C-USA made a tactical error in May 2012, when they replaced the 4 schools they lost with 6 replacements:

UTSA, UNT, and FIU were sensible adds—they were meant to replace the lost market/recruiting ground presence of the 2 Texas and 1 Florida schools they lost.

Adding all 3 of LA Tech, ODU, and Charlotte was a blunder. LA Tech stands out as the kind of pick you’d make if you’re going to go with the best available option. however you had ECU clamoring for an add that was travel friendly for them. So rather than picking one or the other they chose both and then rounded things off with a 2nd school near ECU.

Making expansion moves based on ECU’s desires proved to be a poor choice because they were gone 6 months later. C-USA had a chance to right their past wrongs after the departure of ECU and Tulane and stand pat at 12 but they didn’t—they went for the next 2 options on their pecking order list: MTSU and FAU.

The following Spring they substituted departing Tulsa with WKU.

To me, there were 2 critical points where C-USA could have fixed their expansion problem:

May 2012: they should have replaced on a 1:1 basis. Ideally, they should have taken the best available (LA Tech) and let ECU deal with it. After ECU and Tulane are gone MTSU and FAU get the call up and then WKU for Tulsa:

West: UTEP, UNT, UTSA, Rice, LA Tech, USM
East: UAB, MTSU, WKU, Marshall, FAU, FIU

The other option is Nov 2012: After going to 14 due to ECU’s insistence that ODU and Charlotte be added for their convenience, they choose not to expand and stand at 12. In April 2013, when they lose Tulsa they reload with MTSU. (I’m presuming they try to replace the lost Tenn presence rather than doubling down on southern Florida)

West: UTEP, UNT, UTSA, Rice, LA Tech, USM
East: UAB, MTSU, FIU, Charlotte, ODU, Marshall

thats a lot of hindsight mixed with "what if's". But This last Nov 2012 option is the closest and simplest version of where CUSA should have stopped at. 2 of these 3 MTSU, WKY, and FAU should have never been added based on the order of when CUSA made their additions.
11-18-2020 10:21 AM
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balanced_view Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-18-2020 10:14 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(11-18-2020 10:03 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  C-USA made a tactical error in May 2012, when they replaced the 4 schools they lost with 6 replacements:

UTSA, UNT, and FIU were sensible adds—they were meant to replace the lost market/recruiting ground presence of the 2 Texas and 1 Florida schools they lost.

Adding all 3 of LA Tech, ODU, and Charlotte was a blunder. LA Tech stands out as the kind of pick you’d make if you’re going to go with the best available option. however you had ECU clamoring for an add that was travel friendly for them. So rather than picking one or the other they chose both and then rounded things off with a 2nd school near ECU.

Making expansion moves based on ECU’s desires proved to be a poor choice because they were gone 6 months later. C-USA had a chance to right their past wrongs after the departure of ECU and Tulane and stand pat at 12 but they didn’t—they went for the next 2 options on their pecking order list: MTSU and FAU.

The following Spring they substituted departing Tulsa with WKU.

To me, there were 2 critical points where C-USA could have fixed their expansion problem:

May 2012: they should have replaced on a 1:1 basis. Ideally, they should have taken the best available (LA Tech) and let ECU deal with it. After ECU and Tulane are gone MTSU and FAU get the call up and then WKU for Tulsa:

West: UTEP, UNT, UTSA, Rice, LA Tech, USM
East: UAB, MTSU, WKU, Marshall, FAU, FIU

The other option is Nov 2012: After going to 14 due to ECU’s insistence that ODU and Charlotte be added for their convenience, they choose not to expand and stand at 12. In April 2013, when they lose Tulsa they reload with MTSU. (I’m presuming they try to replace the lost Tenn presence rather than doubling down on southern Florida)

West: UTEP, UNT, UTSA, Rice, LA Tech, USM
East: UAB, MTSU, FIU, Charlotte, ODU, Marshall

If CUSA did not take in Charlotte or Old Dominion, would the Sun Belt have been interested?

Sun Belt
East: Appalachian St, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, Georgia St, Old Dominion
West: Arkansas St, South Alabama, Texas St, Troy, UL Lafayette, UL Monroe

thats not how it would have looked based on the timing of the additions. Idaho and NMSU would have not had those football only years in the Sun Belt because of this change. i guess Charlotte gets in. Coastal never gets the chance.

Sun Belt
East: Appalachian St, FAU, WKY, Georgia Southern, Georgia St, Charlotte
West: Arkansas St, South Alabama, Texas St, Troy, Louisiana, ULM
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2020 10:33 AM by balanced_view.)
11-18-2020 10:32 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-18-2020 10:14 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(11-18-2020 10:03 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  C-USA made a tactical error in May 2012, when they replaced the 4 schools they lost with 6 replacements:

UTSA, UNT, and FIU were sensible adds—they were meant to replace the lost market/recruiting ground presence of the 2 Texas and 1 Florida schools they lost.

Adding all 3 of LA Tech, ODU, and Charlotte was a blunder. LA Tech stands out as the kind of pick you’d make if you’re going to go with the best available option. however you had ECU clamoring for an add that was travel friendly for them. So rather than picking one or the other they chose both and then rounded things off with a 2nd school near ECU.

Making expansion moves based on ECU’s desires proved to be a poor choice because they were gone 6 months later. C-USA had a chance to right their past wrongs after the departure of ECU and Tulane and stand pat at 12 but they didn’t—they went for the next 2 options on their pecking order list: MTSU and FAU.

The following Spring they substituted departing Tulsa with WKU.

To me, there were 2 critical points where C-USA could have fixed their expansion problem:

May 2012: they should have replaced on a 1:1 basis. Ideally, they should have taken the best available (LA Tech) and let ECU deal with it. After ECU and Tulane are gone MTSU and FAU get the call up and then WKU for Tulsa:

West: UTEP, UNT, UTSA, Rice, LA Tech, USM
East: UAB, MTSU, WKU, Marshall, FAU, FIU

The other option is Nov 2012: After going to 14 due to ECU’s insistence that ODU and Charlotte be added for their convenience, they choose not to expand and stand at 12. In April 2013, when they lose Tulsa they reload with MTSU. (I’m presuming they try to replace the lost Tenn presence rather than doubling down on southern Florida)

West: UTEP, UNT, UTSA, Rice, LA Tech, USM
East: UAB, MTSU, FIU, Charlotte, ODU, Marshall

If CUSA did not take in Charlotte or Old Dominion, would the Sun Belt have been interested?

Sun Belt
East: Appalachian St, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, Georgia St, Old Dominion
West: Arkansas St, South Alabama, Texas St, Troy, UL Lafayette, UL Monroe

I’m of the opinion that if C-USA took a pass in Charlotte and ODU the SBC would have been interested. I also think JMU would have jumped into the mix as well at the expense of CCU:

West: Texas St, Ark St, ULL, ULM, USA, Troy
East: JMU, ODU, App St, Charlotte, GA St, GA South
11-18-2020 11:16 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
The interesting thing about if FAU and WKU had been left out of C-USA is that they accounted for 4 of the 7 C-USA champs from 2013-2019.

The SBC would have been even stronger had they had them. For what it’s worth, the East has been won by one of the last 3 adds (MTSU, WKU, FAU) for the past 5 years.
11-18-2020 11:25 AM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
If they had stuck with longer term FBS schools, the Sun Belt probably would have ceased to exist and the CUSA schools wouldn't find themselves with a flood of new schools competing for recruits.

That first move should have been UNT, FIU, WKU, MTSU, FAU and Arkansas St.
The next should have been ULL and La Tech.

Sun Belt is left with Troy. Period. South Alabama was starting in 2012. UTSA and Texas St. were WAC refugees who only started in 2012.
The rest of the schools joined FBS after 2012 and would have had no place to go:
Georgia St. 2013
Georgia Southern 2014
Old Dominion 2014
Appalachian St. 2014
Charlotte 2015
Coastal Carolina 2017
11-18-2020 12:18 PM
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bit_9 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
I don't know if we would have gone to the Sunbelt either. The way the story went (as I was told it) we, ODU, were not actively looking to move up. Had no intensions at that time, sure it was on the horizon but not then. But someone from CUSA was told "Hey, take a look at ODU" or something to that nature. They called and took a tour and offered us a spot right after. So, would CUSA taking a look and taking a pass caught the attention of the Sunbelt if we weren't actively reaching out or letting FBS conferences know? Shrug. It's been a while so that might not be how it happened but if we weren't shopping ourselves and CUSA passed I don't know if we wouldn't be FCS still with hopes of moving up now.
11-18-2020 01:09 PM
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Herd6993 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-18-2020 12:56 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 06:42 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 03:53 PM)Herd6993 Wrote:  My personal preference would be an eastern based conference made up of the following: WKU, MTSU, UAB, Marshall, ODU, UNCC, Appy State, GA Southern, GA State, Coastal, James Madison and either Liberty or FAU. Pretty solid league and a fanbase in at least one major sport (no disrespect to Southern Miss or La Tech).
Realistically this is not going to happen so I think CUSA should try and improve the current situation.

The biggest complaints seem to be about the current commissioner and her lack of vision, eastern based basketball schools not having the conference tournament within driving distance ( these schools are usually at the top of attendance and performance), schools with fanbases not having enough games in close travel proximity or who their fans have a recognizable interest in and a perceived bias toward the Texas schools influenced by where the Conference HQ is located. To calm some of this dissention here is what I would do.


1. Get a new Commish who has a vision and can convince the bulk of the Presidents to follow that vision.
2. Find a way to have the Basketball Tournament at least once out of every three years near the majority of your basketball schools (WKU, Marshall, ODU, and MTSU).
3. Expand to sixteen with the idea of saving cost on Travel to offset the new additions share of TV. The new additions would be New Mexico State (travel partner for UTEP) and either Liberty or James Madison (provide a close travel game for UNCC, Marshall, and ODU).
4. With sixteen schools you would be able to have a nine game conference schedule in football playing the seven schools in your division plus two from the other division. In other words Marshall would be only going to New Mexico State and UTEP once every eight years.
5. With sixteen schools you would be able to have an eighteen game conference schedule in basketball playing each school in your division twice and four schools from the other division. In other words Marshall would only have to visit UTEP/New Mexico State once every four years.

#1 YES
#2 YES

Everything else - NO!

Since when Marshall is a basketball school? The only ones that fit that profile based on history are UTEP, UAB, Western Kentucky, Old Dominion and Charlotte. The conference will have the tournament where the money is. If it's in Frisco, then it'll be there. Unlike bowls, conference tournaments are announced years in advance and you can plan ahead so I have never understood why people make a big deal out of it. Does it really matter if it's in Frisco, Biloxi, Las Vegas, Honolulu, Miami, etc if nobody is going to show up? El Paso and Birmingham are the only locations that can fill the arena, probably Norfolk too but they haven't given the chance to host it yet. As for the commissioner, it's the Presidents who keep her employed. They can reject every proposal she recommends and at the end, they approve it. It's them I blame not the commissioner.

1. I am talking recent history not ancient. Since this current conglomeration has been put together Marshall (NCAA/CIT), ODU (NCAA/NIT), MTSU (NCAA x2), and WKU (NIT) have done it on the floor and in the stands. That means the majority of the basketball schools are in the east. Keep in mind I did say "majority" others being UAB (NCAA) and North Texas. I guess I could have added UTEP for attendance but on the court is a different issue.

2. Do not necessarily disagree with you on this, but look at the AAC (Aresco), or the Power 5 schools. You never hear about the Presidents because these guys run their leagues, have a vision, and convince the Presidents. CUSA Commish appears to fail on all of these areas except keeping her job.
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2020 11:03 AM by Herd6993.)
11-21-2020 11:02 AM
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BKTopper Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-18-2020 12:56 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 06:42 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  
(11-17-2020 03:53 PM)Herd6993 Wrote:  My personal preference would be an eastern based conference made up of the following: WKU, MTSU, UAB, Marshall, ODU, UNCC, Appy State, GA Southern, GA State, Coastal, James Madison and either Liberty or FAU. Pretty solid league and a fanbase in at least one major sport (no disrespect to Southern Miss or La Tech).
Realistically this is not going to happen so I think CUSA should try and improve the current situation.

The biggest complaints seem to be about the current commissioner and her lack of vision, eastern based basketball schools not having the conference tournament within driving distance ( these schools are usually at the top of attendance and performance), schools with fanbases not having enough games in close travel proximity or who their fans have a recognizable interest in and a perceived bias toward the Texas schools influenced by where the Conference HQ is located. To calm some of this dissention here is what I would do.


1. Get a new Commish who has a vision and can convince the bulk of the Presidents to follow that vision.
2. Find a way to have the Basketball Tournament at least once out of every three years near the majority of your basketball schools (WKU, Marshall, ODU, and MTSU).
3. Expand to sixteen with the idea of saving cost on Travel to offset the new additions share of TV. The new additions would be New Mexico State (travel partner for UTEP) and either Liberty or James Madison (provide a close travel game for UNCC, Marshall, and ODU).
4. With sixteen schools you would be able to have a nine game conference schedule in football playing the seven schools in your division plus two from the other division. In other words Marshall would be only going to New Mexico State and UTEP once every eight years.
5. With sixteen schools you would be able to have an eighteen game conference schedule in basketball playing each school in your division twice and four schools from the other division. In other words Marshall would only have to visit UTEP/New Mexico State once every four years.

#1 YES
#2 YES

Everything else - NO!

Since when Marshall is a basketball school? The only ones that fit that profile based on history are UTEP, UAB, Western Kentucky, Old Dominion and Charlotte. The conference will have the tournament where the money is. If it's in Frisco, then it'll be there. Unlike bowls, conference tournaments are announced years in advance and you can plan ahead so I have never understood why people make a big deal out of it. Does it really matter if it's in Frisco, Biloxi, Las Vegas, Honolulu, Miami, etc if nobody is going to show up? El Paso and Birmingham are the only locations that can fill the arena, probably Norfolk too but they haven't given the chance to host it yet. As for the commissioner, it's the Presidents who keep her employed. They can reject every proposal she recommends and at the end, they approve it. It's them I blame not the commissioner.

Hence the frustration of the eastern basketball schools.

Maybe if the league's HQ was in Charlotte, Nashville, Louisville, Atlanta, etc. the schools that actually care about basketball could have a relevant tourney close to fans.

But the league's HQ is in the Metroplex, so it'll always be in the Metroplex I guess. Still better than Hot Springs, Arkansas lol.
11-21-2020 11:38 AM
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