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Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-14-2020 03:12 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 12:40 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Based on the current alignment, Texas State is the only Sun Belt member that would benefit from switching to C-USA. And (best I can tell) C-USA doesn’t want Texas State.
I’ll argue that Louisiana would also take a hard look at C-USA if UAB, Southern Miss, Louisiana Tech and Rice are all still there.
Not seeing it, unless the Belt has lost a couple of its top-performing programs.
11-14-2020 09:40 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
I think you if you asked the ADs at every Sunbelt school if they’d rather be in SBC or in a conference with the 7 respective C-USA division schools, they’d pick the C-USA division. What holds C-USA back is the presence of the other division.

Lesson here: a big footprint isn’t a good thing for the G5.
11-14-2020 09:48 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #23
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-14-2020 09:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think you if you asked the ADs at every Sunbelt school if they’d rather be in SBC or in a conference with the 7 respective C-USA division schools, they’d pick the C-USA division. What holds C-USA back is the presence of the other division.

Lesson here: a big footprint isn’t a good thing for the G5.

CUSA is just a weird conference. Texas cluster and schools with nothing to do with Texas.

Between CUSA and the SB - Create a new conference with the 5 Texas schools, 3 Louisiana schools, USM and Ark State.

The rest in another conference.
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2020 10:29 PM by quo vadis.)
11-14-2020 10:24 PM
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EigenEagle Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-14-2020 12:00 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  I’m curious, EE: do you think the Belt would have any interest in adding Marshall+Liberty? Move Troy to the western division. That would be 12 for football and 14 for hoops. Good idea?

I would gladly take Marshall, but I don't know if they'd be interested.

I don't see the SBC poaching from CUSA because of exit fees. I don't see a reorganization of both leagues along geographic lines either because it's not really going save travel costs for a lot of schools and it'll just be too hard to please the schools in the middle of the footprint.

The most realistic scenario IMO is that the Sun Belt ends up trading Texas State for UNCC.

(11-14-2020 01:21 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  These things are cyclical. People forget once a Sun Belt school gets good, a P5 will get their coach and even a upper G5 like Boise State and Cincinnati and it’s back to square one. The Sun Belt might be good lately but that doesn’t mean they won’t have down years. Even P5 conferences have down years. Just look at the ACC and Pac-12 lately.

I get that teams and conferences go up and down with coaching changes, but consider the Sun Belt is most likely going to finish ahead of CUSA in the CFP ranking system and that will make it 4 of the last 5 seasons. That's going back to 2016, and 9 of the current 10 Sun Belt programs have made at least 1 head-coaching change since then.
(This post was last modified: 11-14-2020 11:08 PM by EigenEagle.)
11-14-2020 11:06 PM
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EagleNationRising Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
I think there’s another interesting assumption that is happening here in that a lot of people believe that BOTH the SB and CUSA have teams that are unhappy with the situation, or that both conferences believe that they need sone sort of mass realignment. The Sunbelt schools are generally happy with their set up. Sure one or two other schools for competition, regional rivalries, etc. could be worked out, but it’s not a talking point like what’s going on in CUSA. Using GS for reference, every eastern school and 1 western school is within driving distance in the sunbelt. That’s 5 of the other 9 football playing members, with only ArkSt, ULL, ULM, and TxSt being flight when they are the home teams. Looking at Marshall or ODU, they could conceivably travel to two schools in the Miami area and a school in mountain time Texas. Is it possible to have a schedule where you visit all of these schools in a season? No idea...but it would be wild, considering that’s not their only flight games.

I think the sunbelt is in a good position currently in regards to having things done on their terms(absent of external influences like P5 poaching causing trickle down realignment). CUSA is not the CUSA of old and everyone knows it. If anyone moves it would be TxSt because all the other Texas schools are in that conference. Who initiates though? Does the sunbelt try to poach Marshall? or ODU, or Charlotte maybe?
11-15-2020 12:01 AM
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Cardiff Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
C-USA’s expansion selections of 2012/13 were not based on football. I know that sounds incredibly weird, but it’s true. And the last 6-7 years have shown the results of that “strategy”.

(11-14-2020 12:00 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  do you think the Belt would have any interest in adding Marshall+Liberty? Move Troy to the western division. That would be 12 for football and 14 for hoops. Good idea?
I like it. There would be some dissent among Marshall fans. But C-USA’s intrinsic weakness and irrelevance have become glaringly obvious in the last year or two. The fact that C-USA does not have the resources or leadership to change that narrative is staring us in the face. So I think there is a new willingness among Marshall fans to do something that would’ve been considered a “risk” a few years before.

(11-14-2020 12:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  BTW, could C-USA backfill from the Sun Belt today? I don't think so.
Not a chance.

(11-14-2020 12:40 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Texas State is the only Sun Belt member that would benefit from switching to C-USA. And (best I can tell) C-USA doesn’t want Texas State.
Yep.
11-15-2020 08:50 AM
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ESE84 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-14-2020 09:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think you if you asked the ADs at every Sunbelt school if they’d rather be in SBC or in a conference with the 7 respective C-USA division schools, they’d pick the C-USA division. What holds C-USA back is the presence of the other division.

Lesson here: a big footprint isn’t a good thing for the G5.

Yep. East and West C-USA have little in common. The East programs seem more unhappy than those in the West. If C-USA could split apart and form two conferences with college football playoff revenues sharing and a basketball tournament autobid, I think it would have already happened. But this “G6” alternative is unlikely, so we zombie on.
11-15-2020 10:40 AM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #28
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-15-2020 10:40 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 09:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think you if you asked the ADs at every Sunbelt school if they’d rather be in SBC or in a conference with the 7 respective C-USA division schools, they’d pick the C-USA division. What holds C-USA back is the presence of the other division.

Lesson here: a big footprint isn’t a good thing for the G5.

Yep. East and West C-USA have little in common. The East programs seem more unhappy than those in the West. If C-USA could split apart and form two conferences with college football playoff revenues sharing and a basketball tournament autobid, I think it would have already happened. But this “G6” alternative is unlikely, so we zombie on.

That's the Texas effect. Texas schools are a bloc so hang together and have more power.

IMO, the logical solution is that between CUSA and SBC, the 5 Texas and 3 Louisiana schools should team up with Ark-State and USM to form a 10-team conference, with the other 14 to the east in the other conference. Call them what you want.
11-15-2020 12:44 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
The challenges the Belt and C-USA face are many, a but a key is this: There are very few universities in either league that have achieved over the years a certain level of national relevance in academics, football and/or men's basketball. Rice (academics), Marshall (football) and Western Kentucky (hoops) are some exceptions (there may be others based on opinion — UAB in men's basketball, for example). Worth noting: C-USA benefits, to an extent and compared to the Belt, by having a decent number of schools located in or near cities of note.

Still, there simply isn't a lot of "overall national cache" with either of the two leagues.

Now, as a long-time fan of Middle Tennessee State, I can strongly say I highly enjoy and respect the "conference company with which the Blue Raiders keep." Having Marshall, Western, Old Dominion, UAB, Charlotte, Rice, etc., ... a fine collection of academics and athletics. Not on the same level as the Mountain West or the American (obviously), but C-USA is respectable in various metrics.
(This post was last modified: 11-15-2020 01:06 PM by bill dazzle.)
11-15-2020 01:05 PM
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balanced_view Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-15-2020 12:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 10:40 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 09:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think you if you asked the ADs at every Sunbelt school if they’d rather be in SBC or in a conference with the 7 respective C-USA division schools, they’d pick the C-USA division. What holds C-USA back is the presence of the other division.

Lesson here: a big footprint isn’t a good thing for the G5.

Yep. East and West C-USA have little in common. The East programs seem more unhappy than those in the West. If C-USA could split apart and form two conferences with college football playoff revenues sharing and a basketball tournament autobid, I think it would have already happened. But this “G6” alternative is unlikely, so we zombie on.

That's the Texas effect. Texas schools are a bloc so hang together and have more power.

IMO, the logical solution is that between CUSA and SBC, the 5 Texas and 3 Louisiana schools should team up with Ark-State and USM to form a 10-team conference, with the other 14 to the east in the other conference. Call them what you want.

Your Texas effect still applies. its going to be hard to find a group of schools that dont mind have 5 Texas teams to vote against. in your example, the 5 non Texas teams are at a disadvantage in the board room. i imagine you would need at least 7 non-Texas vs 5 Texas teams to even start having conversations.
(This post was last modified: 11-15-2020 02:27 PM by balanced_view.)
11-15-2020 02:26 PM
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THUNDERStruck73 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-15-2020 02:26 PM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 12:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 10:40 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 09:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think you if you asked the ADs at every Sunbelt school if they’d rather be in SBC or in a conference with the 7 respective C-USA division schools, they’d pick the C-USA division. What holds C-USA back is the presence of the other division.

Lesson here: a big footprint isn’t a good thing for the G5.

Yep. East and West C-USA have little in common. The East programs seem more unhappy than those in the West. If C-USA could split apart and form two conferences with college football playoff revenues sharing and a basketball tournament autobid, I think it would have already happened. But this “G6” alternative is unlikely, so we zombie on.

That's the Texas effect. Texas schools are a bloc so hang together and have more power.

IMO, the logical solution is that between CUSA and SBC, the 5 Texas and 3 Louisiana schools should team up with Ark-State and USM to form a 10-team conference, with the other 14 to the east in the other conference. Call them what you want.

Your Texas effect still applies. its going to be hard to find a group of schools that dont mind have 5 Texas teams to vote against. in your example, the 5 non Texas teams are at a disadvantage in the board room. i imagine you would need at least 7 non-Texas vs 5 Texas teams to even start having conversations.
NMSU could easily be added to reinforce the Texas bloc.

NMSU
UTEP
UTSA
TXST
UNT
Rice
ULM

That’s a good core but I’m not sure LaTech and ULL wouldnt rather be aligned with UAB, USM, Marshall, etc.
(This post was last modified: 11-15-2020 03:26 PM by THUNDERStruck73.)
11-15-2020 03:20 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #32
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-15-2020 02:26 PM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 12:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 10:40 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 09:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think you if you asked the ADs at every Sunbelt school if they’d rather be in SBC or in a conference with the 7 respective C-USA division schools, they’d pick the C-USA division. What holds C-USA back is the presence of the other division.

Lesson here: a big footprint isn’t a good thing for the G5.

Yep. East and West C-USA have little in common. The East programs seem more unhappy than those in the West. If C-USA could split apart and form two conferences with college football playoff revenues sharing and a basketball tournament autobid, I think it would have already happened. But this “G6” alternative is unlikely, so we zombie on.

That's the Texas effect. Texas schools are a bloc so hang together and have more power.

IMO, the logical solution is that between CUSA and SBC, the 5 Texas and 3 Louisiana schools should team up with Ark-State and USM to form a 10-team conference, with the other 14 to the east in the other conference. Call them what you want.

Your Texas effect still applies. its going to be hard to find a group of schools that dont mind have 5 Texas teams to vote against. in your example, the 5 non Texas teams are at a disadvantage in the board room. i imagine you would need at least 7 non-Texas vs 5 Texas teams to even start having conversations.

I don't think the Texas Effect is much of a problem with schools from Louisiana, Arkansas and even Mississippi (would be only one of those) as those states are very close to Texas and share culture. The issue with CUSA is that you have a lot of teams from states that are distant from Texas and do not share much of its world-view. Texas is an alien entity to them whereas for Louisiana and Arkansas it is a neighbor.

Kind of like in the original Big 12, where the Oklahoma schools don't mind the Texas power *that* much, but it chafed the Nebraskas and Colorados much more.
(This post was last modified: 11-15-2020 03:32 PM by quo vadis.)
11-15-2020 03:31 PM
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THUNDERStruck73 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
stAte would rather be aligned with the east
11-15-2020 03:33 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-14-2020 10:24 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 09:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think you if you asked the ADs at every Sunbelt school if they’d rather be in SBC or in a conference with the 7 respective C-USA division schools, they’d pick the C-USA division. What holds C-USA back is the presence of the other division.

Lesson here: a big footprint isn’t a good thing for the G5.

CUSA is just a weird conference. Texas cluster and schools with nothing to do with Texas.

The schools that joined CUSA in the 2010-2014 time period thought they were buying into a conference that was going to be more like MWC 2.0.

1-2 million per school TV deal. 2-3 NCAA bids per year ect.

They ended up in something with MAC level FB and SBC level BB.
11-15-2020 03:51 PM
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Cardiff Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-15-2020 03:51 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The schools that joined CUSA in the 2010-2014 time period thought they were buying into a conference that was going to be more like MWC 2.0.

1-2 million per school TV deal. 2-3 NCAA bids per year etc.

They ended up in something with MAC level FB and SBC level BB.
Eventually, the reality of that statement ^^^ will drive out C-USA’s more ambitious members. Paying a ransom to escape this sh¡thole of a league is insulting, but it will have to be done.
11-15-2020 04:03 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
Just for fun, let’s say all the SBC schools refused C-USA:

C-USA West: UTEP, UTSA, Texas St, Rice, LA Tech, USM
C-USA East: UAB, Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, App St, GA Southern

SBC West: UNT, Ark St, ULL, ULM, USA
SBC East: FAU, FIU, Troy, MTSU, WKU

I’m not sure where to put GA St and CCU.
11-15-2020 04:10 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-15-2020 04:03 PM)Cardiff Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 03:51 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The schools that joined CUSA in the 2010-2014 time period thought they were buying into a conference that was going to be more like MWC 2.0.

1-2 million per school TV deal. 2-3 NCAA bids per year etc.

They ended up in something with MAC level FB and SBC level BB.
Eventually, the reality of that statement ^^^ will drive out C-USA’s more ambitious members. Paying a ransom to escape this sh¡thole of a league is insulting, but it will have to be done.

Nobody is stopping Marshall from leaving. The MAC is there and independence would an option too. There's UConn, UMass, Liberty, BYU and plenty of MAC, C-USA East and Sun Belt schools willing to schedule you. You won't be missed in the Great State of Texas and I'm sure the feeling is mutual on your side.

And no, a new conference won't be formed. Good luck getting an autobid to the NCAAT, a sport the other school you support, UAB cares about. Until then, it's C-USA for the Thundering Herd.
11-15-2020 07:49 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-15-2020 07:49 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 04:03 PM)Cardiff Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 03:51 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The schools that joined CUSA in the 2010-2014 time period thought they were buying into a conference that was going to be more like MWC 2.0.

1-2 million per school TV deal. 2-3 NCAA bids per year etc.

They ended up in something with MAC level FB and SBC level BB.
Eventually, the reality of that statement ^^^ will drive out C-USA’s more ambitious members. Paying a ransom to escape this sh¡thole of a league is insulting, but it will have to be done.

Nobody is stopping Marshall from leaving. The MAC is there and independence would an option too. There's UConn, UMass, Liberty, BYU and plenty of MAC, C-USA East and Sun Belt schools willing to schedule you. You won't be missed in the Great State of Texas and I'm sure the feeling is mutual on your side.

And no, a new conference won't be formed. Good luck getting an autobid to the NCAAT, a sport the other school you support, UAB cares about. Until then, it's C-USA for the Thundering Herd.

I wonder if the MEAC dissolves, if that’s the time a new conference gains momentum so they can simply replace the MEAC’s autobid.
11-15-2020 08:24 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-15-2020 07:49 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 04:03 PM)Cardiff Wrote:  
(11-15-2020 03:51 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The schools that joined CUSA in the 2010-2014 time period thought they were buying into a conference that was going to be more like MWC 2.0.

1-2 million per school TV deal. 2-3 NCAA bids per year etc.

They ended up in something with MAC level FB and SBC level BB.
Eventually, the reality of that statement ^^^ will drive out C-USA’s more ambitious members. Paying a ransom to escape this sh¡thole of a league is insulting, but it will have to be done.

Nobody is stopping Marshall from leaving. The MAC is there and independence would an option too. There's UConn, UMass, Liberty, BYU and plenty of MAC, C-USA East and Sun Belt schools willing to schedule you. You won't be missed in the Great State of Texas and I'm sure the feeling is mutual on your side.

And no, a new conference won't be formed. Good luck getting an autobid to the NCAAT, a sport the other school you support, UAB cares about. Until then, it's C-USA for the Thundering Herd.

A new conference wouldn't be a signatore to the CFP agreement which poses a larger problem.

Increasingly the G5 agreement has some prestige to it. That might be enough to keep the current five conference setup in place.

I see an expanded CFP with more bowls likely in the future.
11-15-2020 11:46 PM
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ah59396 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Has FAU and FIU moving from the SBC to C-USA been a Bust?
(11-14-2020 12:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  BTW, could C-USA backfill from the Sun Belt today? I don't think so.

While I can’t speak for leadership, I see no way App would want to.

For me personally, hell no. The Sunbelt is a fun, gritty conference of 10 teams where you get to play nearly everyone, every year. CUSA seems like a mess to me.
11-16-2020 03:01 AM
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