(05-27-2021 05:41 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 04:23 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 03:36 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 03:04 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 02:30 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Are you saying that they weren't violent protests with a peaceful element, or that doesn't make them okay?

No...

I think it's pretty clear what I was saying. Protests were violent AND peaceful. And the media portrayed the as both and OO was wrong when he said "that "It appears that peaceful protests" were the result not of media reporting, but of media editing."

Everyone knew these protests were both peaceful and violent.

Given that definition that you strive for there, the invasion and battle of Iwo Jima was 'both peaceful and violent'.

If there had been a number of people at the battle of Iwo Jima that never contributed to the war effort on either side, then absolutely. As in, peaceful villages were disrupted by the violent fighting of the Americans and Japanese.

Okay, then the Battle of Berlin was both peaceful and violent. Sounds hunky dory to me.

Quote:This back and forth is rather silly - sorry I dared to challenge the great conservative hive mind.

Well, it is quite hard to justify the 'peaceful AND violent' thingy that you brought forth as defense. I can understand why it is silly to you.

Maybe it is...... drum roll..... serious and silly.

The Battle of Britain was very peaceful in between bombing attacks.

(05-27-2021 05:43 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 05:21 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-27-2021 04:23 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  the great conservative hive mind.

Funniest thing I have ever heard from you, LAD.

But at least we are being civil.

We are not amused.

And peripherally, at least no one is barking at lad about 'cranking up the antagonism' from this quarter.

Shhh. I almost have the kids down...

I'm sick of black kids dying

Black former DC detective gets upset over defunding and its effect in the black community. Toward the end of the 4:19 interview.

Mom of slain teen speaks about BLM

WashPo

here we go again

More “peaceful protests” involving fires and rock throwing. And they say he opened fire. But he was black, so now the activists are chanting murder.

Ironic it was the Marshalls, but the protests are against the police. Guess a badge is a badge is a badge is a racist.


more



and more

(06-05-2021 10:21 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  here we go again

More “peaceful protests” involving fires and rock throwing. And they say he opened fire. But he was black, so now the activists are chanting murder.

Ironic it was the Marshalls, but the protests are against the police. Guess a badge is a badge is a badge is a racist.


more



and more

The second article has some interesting evidence of the apparent effects reduced policing:

Quote:There have been 36 homicides in the city so far this year, which is more than double the number at this point last year and more than four times that seen in 2019.

Car-jackings are up 222 per cent and shootings have risen 153 per cent. 80 per cent of the victims are black.

Gun theft from vehicles is up more than 100 per cent and the police department has seized 100 fewer guns this year than they had at the same point in 2020.

Minneapolis Police Department has lost more than 200 police officers, who have either permanently left the department or been signed off of service due to disability.

and some more

"... it's a shame they keep killing our young Black people."

THEY????

peacfulness continues

Related: currently on CBS Sunday Morning is a report on policing in America.

Edit: off now. You will have to go to Demand for it. Good overview of policing not just in America but abroad.

From a now-archived thread on the Lafayette Park riot:

https://csnbbs.com/thread-797972-post-16...id16845451

Quote:MO this was a major low point of this administration.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/02/us/po...quare.html

Unbelievably bad idea to use these methods to clear out peaceful protesters without warning and without giving the security team in that park much of a heads-up.

How is the right-wing contingent feeling about the Trump team's decision to make this photo-op happen?

In the last few days:

Government Report Undermines Biden’s Claim That Trump Had Protesters Tear-Gassed

Quote:The Interior Department's inspector general said in a report released Wednesday that U.S. Park Police cleared protesters from Lafayette Park so that a contractor could erect fencing in order to protect federal property and police officers. Police planned to build the fence hours before learning Trump would walk from the White House through Lafayette Square to give a speech outside St. John's Episcopal Church.

Quote:The inspector general's report states, "The evidence we obtained did not support a finding that the [United States Park Police] cleared the park to allow the President to survey the damage and walk to St. John's Church."

Oopsie. I guess the half-life of that narrative has passed its 'stale date', but at least Biden and Harris got some good juice out of it (as well as some of the posters here at that time). Throw this one into the pile with the Russian collusion stuff I guess.

(06-10-2021 07:59 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  From a now-archived thread on the Lafayette Park riot:

https://csnbbs.com/thread-797972-post-16...id16845451

Quote:MO this was a major low point of this administration.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/02/us/po...quare.html

Unbelievably bad idea to use these methods to clear out peaceful protesters without warning and without giving the security team in that park much of a heads-up.

How is the right-wing contingent feeling about the Trump team's decision to make this photo-op happen?

In the last few days:

Government Report Undermines Biden’s Claim That Trump Had Protesters Tear-Gassed

Quote:The Interior Department's inspector general said in a report released Wednesday that U.S. Park Police cleared protesters from Lafayette Park so that a contractor could erect fencing in order to protect federal property and police officers. Police planned to build the fence hours before learning Trump would walk from the White House through Lafayette Square to give a speech outside St. John's Episcopal Church.

Quote:The inspector general's report states, "The evidence we obtained did not support a finding that the [United States Park Police] cleared the park to allow the President to survey the damage and walk to St. John's Church."

Oopsie. I guess the half-life of that narrative has passed its 'stale date', but at least Biden and Harris got some good juice out of it (as well as some of the posters here at that time). Throw this one into the pile with the Russian collusion stuff I guess.

Like their counterparts in the MSM, I don't expect anybody here here to own up to their mistakes.

Entire Portland riot control unit resigns en masse

Well, that is what happens when rioters are not charged on a continuous and mass basis, and you decide to indict a cop.

Something else that happen when Blue Lives Don’t Matter is that recruitment, both in quality and quantity, goes down.

mob gathers in Portland

"The suspect may have been attempting to stab another person in the parking lot of a Motel 6 when an officer shot him in the back, KOIN-TV reported, citing a witness.

The officers had responded to the motel for a welfare check on the suspect."

So, had Portland sent a mental health specialist instead of a cop on this welfare check, would the third party have ended up stabbed, perhaps fatally?

(06-25-2021 10:08 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  mob gathers in Portland

"The suspect may have been attempting to stab another person in the parking lot of a Motel 6 when an officer shot him in the back, KOIN-TV reported, citing a witness.

The officers had responded to the motel for a welfare check on the suspect."

So, had Portland sent a mental health specialist instead of a cop on this welfare check, would the third party have ended up stabbed, perhaps fatally?

I can't speak for anyone else and I know many have suggested ridiculous things, but this doesn't represent what I've suggested.

The term 'welfare check' doesn't give me much information. If potential for deadly force was implied in the call for assistance, armed police should have been dispatched. If mental health was also implied, they too could have been dispatched. Of course you don't know what could happen, but I also believe that sometimes we can MAKE things happen; by that I mean if an unarmed mental health worker is talking, perhaps the knife doesn't come out. If armed police are present, it can escalate the situation.... especially when someone is on the edge to begin with.

I guess what I'm getting at is that especially when 'becoming a police officer' is not seen as a great career choice, we can't expect to get people who are highly proficient at being both counselor and protector as needed. We are much more likely to get one person who is great at one, and another who is great at the other. I like to use dog analogies... and I think you need a pit bull and an Afghan so that you don't just get a lot of pissed off chihuahuas.

Look at how lots of people react to pit bulls... and Chihuahuas. There are times when you absolutely want the pit bull, but I think it a whole lot more effective to be able to say to someone... hey, don't force me take this dog off his leash... because he's going to mess you up... keep talking to me.

If its not safe to do that, then you don't do it.

I don't know how many people in Portland would bite off on my thoughts here, but I'm betting that enough from both sides would to pass some bills.

(06-25-2021 01:13 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(06-25-2021 10:08 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  mob gathers in Portland

"The suspect may have been attempting to stab another person in the parking lot of a Motel 6 when an officer shot him in the back, KOIN-TV reported, citing a witness.

The officers had responded to the motel for a welfare check on the suspect."

So, had Portland sent a mental health specialist instead of a cop on this welfare check, would the third party have ended up stabbed, perhaps fatally?

I can't speak for anyone else and I know many have suggested ridiculous things, but this doesn't represent what I've suggested.

The term 'welfare check' doesn't give me much information. If potential for deadly force was implied in the call for assistance, armed police should have been dispatched. If mental health was also implied, they too could have been dispatched. Of course you don't know what could happen, but I also believe that sometimes we can MAKE things happen; by that I mean if an unarmed mental health worker is talking, perhaps the knife doesn't come out. If armed police are present, it can escalate the situation.... especially when someone is on the edge to begin with.

I guess what I'm getting at is that especially when 'becoming a police officer' is not seen as a great career choice, we can't expect to get people who are highly proficient at being both counselor and protector as needed. We are much more likely to get one person who is great at one, and another who is great at the other. I like to use dog analogies... and I think you need a pit bull and an Afghan so that you don't just get a lot of pissed off chihuahuas.

Look at how lots of people react to pit bulls... and Chihuahuas. There are times when you absolutely want the pit bull, but I think it a whole lot more effective to be able to say to someone... hey, don't force me take this dog off his leash... because he's going to mess you up... keep talking to me.

If its not safe to do that, then you don't do it.

I don't know how many people in Portland would bite off on my thoughts here, but I'm betting that enough from both sides would to pass some bills.

Sorry if I got you wrong, but my understanding was that a 'welfare check" under your system would involve somebody other than an armed officer. Maybe not a mental health pro - but also not an armed officer. Neither Afghan or pit bull - maybe a cocker spaniel? Somebody trained to do welfare checks, perhaps? Maybe an EMT unit? They would be a logical choice if somebody's welfare was in question.

I guess another question would be whether this escalated after the officer arrived into a situation requiring immediate action to stop a knifing, or was it in progress as he arrived.



Side comment: In decades of working in the Mexican state of Chihuahua, I don't remember ever seeing a Chihuahua dog.

(06-25-2021 04:35 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Sorry if I got you wrong, but my understanding was that a 'welfare check" under your system would involve somebody other than an armed officer. Maybe not a mental health pro - but also not an armed officer. Neither Afghan or pit bull - maybe a cocker spaniel? Somebody trained to do welfare checks, perhaps? Maybe an EMT unit? They would be a logical choice if somebody's welfare was in question.

I guess another question would be whether this escalated after the officer arrived into a situation requiring immediate action to stop a knifing, or was it in progress as he arrived.



Side comment: In decades of working in the Mexican state of Chihuahua, I don't remember ever seeing a Chihuahua dog.

In an ideal world, we'd have all those sub-specialties. Under my preferred/practical system, you really have the two people... MAYBE a third as you suggest, but maybe not based on the size of the force. The reality is that when we're dispatching police to a remotely dangerous situation, there are going to be a lot more than one. Also remember that while my MH guy isn't trained in the same way as the other guy, he DOES have non-lethal force at his disposal and access to (and training for) lethal force. Its just not what he's best at/suited for. The other guy is the opposite.

Welfare check to me can mean lots of things... It depends on why someone is concerned for the welfare of another. He's on medication, lives alone but I've been hearing arguing and throwing of things... or I just haven't seen him in a week... In the latter, I may just send a mental health person. The former, I probably send both. I suppose a big part of our differences here could simply be the preconception we have in our minds as to what the situation is.

As I understand it, Chihuahuas are actually quite proficient swimmers, so they've all apparently crossed the border to take the jobs that American dogs won't do!

(06-28-2021 09:22 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  As I understand it, Chihuahuas are actually quite proficient swimmers, so they've all apparently crossed the border to take the jobs that American dogs won't do!

They just want better lives for their puppies.

I guess this is a peaceful protest.

But it is also inappropriate.

And once again, I have to ask: protesting what?