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Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-18-2020 06:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 04:30 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 10:37 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  Tennessee? Oh hell why not Alabama? Or Southern Cal to open up the west coast? Both of those are as likely as Tennessee.

I'd like to see the ACC add Penn State, Ohio State, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida and Auburn. Kneecap both the Big Ten and the SEC.
07-coffee3

Of course the ACC would do the right thing and offer trade-ins to the SEC for the top three teams on Statefan's list.

Florida State for Florida
Miami for Vanderbilt
Louisville for South Carolina

Pitt for Maryland as a trade-in to the B1G

Excuse Syracuse and Boston College and end up with a stellar 12 team league.

Do you want to get rid of six current members? Also UMCP dumped the ACC. Why do you want back the ex wife who cheated?
11-18-2020 11:35 AM
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domer1978 Online
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Post: #102
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
Well now we have entered the land of fantasy.
11-18-2020 11:47 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-18-2020 11:47 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  Well now we have entered the land of delusion.

FIFY
11-18-2020 02:30 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #104
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-18-2020 11:35 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(11-18-2020 06:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 04:30 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 10:37 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  Tennessee? Oh hell why not Alabama? Or Southern Cal to open up the west coast? Both of those are as likely as Tennessee.

I'd like to see the ACC add Penn State, Ohio State, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida and Auburn. Kneecap both the Big Ten and the SEC.
07-coffee3

Of course the ACC would do the right thing and offer trade-ins to the SEC for the top three teams on Statefan's list.

Florida State for Florida
Miami for Vanderbilt
Louisville for South Carolina

Pitt for Maryland as a trade-in to the B1G

Excuse Syracuse and Boston College and end up with a stellar 12 team league.

Do you want to get rid of six current members? Also UMCP dumped the ACC. Why do you want back the ex wife who cheated?

The Big 10 engaged in Criminal Conversation04-cheers
11-18-2020 02:31 PM
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schmolik Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-18-2020 10:09 AM)Statefan Wrote:  Carolina wanted VT instead of Florida State, Clemson, and MD. It's business and political as well as boosts tickets sales in Kenan. There is much more cross-pollination between the States of Va and NC than meets the eye.

Virginia Tech men's basketball sucks bullets, why would Carolina want their dead weight in the conference?
11-18-2020 04:02 PM
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Hokie Mark Online
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Post: #106
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-18-2020 04:02 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(11-18-2020 10:09 AM)Statefan Wrote:  Carolina wanted VT instead of Florida State, Clemson, and MD. It's business and political as well as boosts tickets sales in Kenan. There is much more cross-pollination between the States of Va and NC than meets the eye.

Virginia Tech men's basketball sucks bullets, why would Carolina want their dead weight in the conference?

Closer away game for Tar Heels? Plus close enough for Hokies to fill up Keenan (or whatever it's called now), too.
11-18-2020 04:50 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-18-2020 04:02 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(11-18-2020 10:09 AM)Statefan Wrote:  Carolina wanted VT instead of Florida State, Clemson, and MD. It's business and political as well as boosts tickets sales in Kenan. There is much more cross-pollination between the States of Va and NC than meets the eye.

Virginia Tech men's basketball sucks bullets, why would Carolina want their dead weight in the conference?

1. Because they did not want Syracuse in 2003
2. Because all expansion decisions are about football
3. Because many of the PTB in the UNC System and at Chapel Hill have professional business ties with VT people in Va.
4. Because they felt they could lock out NC State and WF from recruiting in Va as Carolina's traditional football recruiting stomping ground was the Tidewater.
5. I could go on, but the above is enough

The UNC System in NC exists for the purpose of economic development - it's not here to "educate" a damn thing so to speak. The entire higher education apparatus in NC is geared toward this and that includes Duke, WF, Davidson, Campbell, and Gardner-Webb. This was a decision made in the 1930's. The price of that ideation is that UNC as a system bends to the will of big business and big business people.
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2020 07:51 PM by Statefan.)
11-18-2020 07:45 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
Yes, the ties between UNC and Virginia Tech are long and storied.


They are sooooo strong that when the two schools shared SoCon membership for 31 years they played each other in football seven times. So strong that after UNC left the SoCon they scheduled exactly zero OOC games with the Hokies, with the only meeting between the two schools from their last SoCon tilt in 1946 and VT joining the ACC schedule in 2004 was a game in the 1998 Gator Bowl. That's how strong the ties between the two schools are.

UNC chose VT because the travel would be easier to Blacksburg than to Chestnut Hill, and the recruiting area in Virginia was better than Massachusetts. The idea that the two schools have ties is about as stupid as claiming that Clemson would block VT out of spite when the Tigers played the Hokies 16 times OOC after leaving the SoCon. Just consider the source when it comes to something like this.
11-18-2020 08:53 PM
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green Offline
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Post: #109
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-18-2020 06:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 04:30 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 10:37 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  Tennessee? Oh hell why not Alabama? Or Southern Cal to open up the west coast? Both of those are as likely as Tennessee.

I'd like to see the ACC add Penn State, Ohio State, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida and Auburn. Kneecap both the Big Ten and the SEC.
07-coffee3

Of course the ACC would do the right thing and offer trade-ins to the SEC for the top three teams on Statefan's list.

Florida State for Florida
Miami for Vanderbilt
Louisville for South Carolina

Pitt for Maryland as a trade-in to the B1G

Excuse Syracuse and Boston College and end up with a stellar 12 team league.

just so you know ...
wherever we go ...
the orange bowl is sure to follow ...

HI HO HI HO
11-19-2020 09:48 AM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #110
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-18-2020 08:53 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Yes, the ties between UNC and Virginia Tech are long and storied.


They are sooooo strong that when the two schools shared SoCon membership for 31 years they played each other in football seven times. So strong that after UNC left the SoCon they scheduled exactly zero OOC games with the Hokies, with the only meeting between the two schools from their last SoCon tilt in 1946 and VT joining the ACC schedule in 2004 was a game in the 1998 Gator Bowl. That's how strong the ties between the two schools are.

UNC chose VT because the travel would be easier to Blacksburg than to Chestnut Hill, and the recruiting area in Virginia was better than Massachusetts. The idea that the two schools have ties is about as stupid as claiming that Clemson would block VT out of spite when the Tigers played the Hokies 16 times OOC after leaving the SoCon. Just consider the source when it comes to something like this.

3. Because many of the PTB in the UNC System and at Chapel Hill have professional business ties with VT people in Va.

Business ties Kap. You must have breathed too many fumes over the years.

If you ever got out of the fire department you would know there is more to life than football and fires.

I don't think you are as stupid as you sound at times. You need to be checked out - https://www.amenclinics.com/blog/the-hid...efighters/

I attended and supervised at just two major industrial fires involving raw cotton from Turkey and the other with weird chemicals and thought I was at a safe distance. One gave me hives for two weeks, the other nearly closed my throat up and I was 100 yards away. We never got a full MSDS on either site. After a career of chemical exposure I think it's affecting your reading comprehension and it's no fun insulting you if you are not fully healthy.
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2020 10:42 AM by Statefan.)
11-19-2020 10:31 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #111
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-19-2020 10:31 AM)Statefan Wrote:  
(11-18-2020 08:53 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Yes, the ties between UNC and Virginia Tech are long and storied.


They are sooooo strong that when the two schools shared SoCon membership for 31 years they played each other in football seven times. So strong that after UNC left the SoCon they scheduled exactly zero OOC games with the Hokies, with the only meeting between the two schools from their last SoCon tilt in 1946 and VT joining the ACC schedule in 2004 was a game in the 1998 Gator Bowl. That's how strong the ties between the two schools are.

UNC chose VT because the travel would be easier to Blacksburg than to Chestnut Hill, and the recruiting area in Virginia was better than Massachusetts. The idea that the two schools have ties is about as stupid as claiming that Clemson would block VT out of spite when the Tigers played the Hokies 16 times OOC after leaving the SoCon. Just consider the source when it comes to something like this.

3. Because many of the PTB in the UNC System and at Chapel Hill have professional business ties with VT people in Va.

Business ties Kap. You must have breathed too many fumes over the years.

If you ever got out of the fire department you would know there is more to life than football and fires.

The only fumes being spewed around here is coming off the BS you are peddling.
11-19-2020 10:39 AM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #112
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
Sorry to upset you Keith but don't you talk about this at the Retirement Board meetings?
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2020 10:48 AM by Statefan.)
11-19-2020 10:47 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #113
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
Carolina didn’t play Virginia Tech or West Virginia in the years after WWII leading up to the formation of the ACC. They played a smattering of SEC teams (Kap would be proud), Virginia, and SoCon teams Duke, Wake, State, William & Mary, and South Carolina and Maryland here and there.

It always struck me they pushed VaTech and WVU for ACC membership.
11-20-2020 11:38 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #114
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-18-2020 11:35 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(11-18-2020 06:34 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 04:30 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(11-14-2020 10:37 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  Tennessee? Oh hell why not Alabama? Or Southern Cal to open up the west coast? Both of those are as likely as Tennessee.

I'd like to see the ACC add Penn State, Ohio State, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida and Auburn. Kneecap both the Big Ten and the SEC.
07-coffee3

Of course the ACC would do the right thing and offer trade-ins to the SEC for the top three teams on Statefan's list.

Florida State for Florida
Miami for Vanderbilt
Louisville for South Carolina

Pitt for Maryland as a trade-in to the B1G

Excuse Syracuse and Boston College and end up with a stellar 12 team league.

Do you want to get rid of six current members? Also UMCP dumped the ACC. Why do you want back the ex wife who cheated?

Maryland, Virginia Tech, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson
Duke, UVa, Georgia Tech, Florida, Carolina, South Carolina
03-cloud9
11-21-2020 08:40 AM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #115
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-20-2020 11:38 PM)esayem Wrote:  Carolina didn’t play Virginia Tech or West Virginia in the years after WWII leading up to the formation of the ACC. They played a smattering of SEC teams (Kap would be proud), Virginia, and SoCon teams Duke, Wake, State, William & Mary, and South Carolina and Maryland here and there.

It always struck me they pushed VaTech and WVU for ACC membership.

Playing football and basketball and doing business in the Tidewater or Richmond or NOVA are two different things. There were political headwinds to play VT in football because that allowed ECU, and other in state programs to ***** and moan. Dooley did not leave on good terms at UNC so that precluded anything for years.

The basic point I've been trying to make is that sports fans see ball games and sports, the ptb see business and investment. It can be a simple as looking at the Hotel ownership statement behind the registers if you know who and what you are looking for.
11-21-2020 05:39 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #116
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-20-2020 11:38 PM)esayem Wrote:  Carolina didn’t play Virginia Tech or West Virginia in the years after WWII leading up to the formation of the ACC. They played a smattering of SEC teams (Kap would be proud), Virginia, and SoCon teams Duke, Wake, State, William & Mary, and South Carolina and Maryland here and there.

It always struck me they pushed VaTech and WVU for ACC membership.

Push is not the right word. Maryland football under Tatum was divisive in MD and with MD politics. Carolina understood the political pressure VT was under from Richmond regarding William and Mary. MD did not give a **** because they had a top 5 program. Carolina did the "right" thing nominating VT. No one knows if they knew the UVa blackball was coming. West Va was not pushed but put up as a nomination. VT and UNC at the time had been in the same conference since 1907.
11-21-2020 05:48 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #117
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-21-2020 05:48 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(11-20-2020 11:38 PM)esayem Wrote:  Carolina didn’t play Virginia Tech or West Virginia in the years after WWII leading up to the formation of the ACC. They played a smattering of SEC teams (Kap would be proud), Virginia, and SoCon teams Duke, Wake, State, William & Mary, and South Carolina and Maryland here and there.

It always struck me they pushed VaTech and WVU for ACC membership.

Push is not the right word. Maryland football under Tatum was divisive in MD and with MD politics. Carolina understood the political pressure VT was under from Richmond regarding William and Mary. MD did not give a **** because they had a top 5 program. Carolina did the "right" thing nominating VT. No one knows if they knew the UVa blackball was coming. West Va was not pushed but put up as a nomination. VT and UNC at the time had been in the same conference since 1907.

Can you expand a bit? What’s the political pressure from Richmond regarding W&M? What did that have to do with VaTech? I know there was a cheating scandal at W&M.
11-21-2020 09:31 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #118
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-21-2020 09:31 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(11-21-2020 05:48 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(11-20-2020 11:38 PM)esayem Wrote:  Carolina didn’t play Virginia Tech or West Virginia in the years after WWII leading up to the formation of the ACC. They played a smattering of SEC teams (Kap would be proud), Virginia, and SoCon teams Duke, Wake, State, William & Mary, and South Carolina and Maryland here and there.

It always struck me they pushed VaTech and WVU for ACC membership.

Push is not the right word. Maryland football under Tatum was divisive in MD and with MD politics. Carolina understood the political pressure VT was under from Richmond regarding William and Mary. MD did not give a **** because they had a top 5 program. Carolina did the "right" thing nominating VT. No one knows if they knew the UVa blackball was coming. West Va was not pushed but put up as a nomination. VT and UNC at the time had been in the same conference since 1907.

Can you expand a bit? What’s the political pressure from Richmond regarding W&M? What did that have to do with VaTech? I know there was a cheating scandal at W&M.

William and Mary, VMI, W&L and VT were in the SoCon. The cheating to win at football at W&M was egregious. The Board had even endorsed it as a policy to win more games than they lost. The turd landed in VT's president's lap and Richmond expected him to reign it in from the standpoint of the SoCon since he was the defacto commissioner at the time. The bowl ban evolved from this. W&M had a team back then that stood toe to toe with Carolina's all time best funded squad with Choo Choo Justice - then the highest paid football player in America - pro or college. By comparison to today that would be like Davidson or Furman standing toe to toe with Clemson.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2020 09:56 AM by Statefan.)
11-22-2020 09:53 AM
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RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
https://indyweek.com/news/orange/unc-s-s...years-ago/

What follows is a Duke’s quasi-offical stance on what happened. It appeared in the Durham NC Independent in 2012 – Read it very carefully and you will see that two schools are not mentioned and it is as if they never existed. That’s purposeful.

As recounted by historian J. Samuel Walker in his fine book ACC Basketball, an academic study of the league's first 20 years, the seven schools that chose to defect from the Southern Conference and form a new league in 1953 were motivated by two distinct sets of concerns.
On the one hand, Clemson, South Carolina and Maryland, all of which were heavily invested in football, were frustrated by the old Southern Conference's ban on participation in bowl games, instituted in 1951. The drive for reform was strengthened by a major scandal that year at conference member William & Mary, where it was revealed that the football program had altered transcripts, changed grades and pressured faculty members to give players favorable grades.
Ironically, UNC and State College (as NCSU was then known) were two of the strongest proponents of the bowl ban: UNC President Gordon Gray (who controlled both schools' votes) described bowl games as "a non-educational distraction for students, both players and otherwise. ... [T]hey command much spectator interest but contribute little to the underlying values of intercollegiate athletics." Wake Forest President Harold Tribble chimed in, saying, "I am in favor of doing everything we can to restore intercollegiate athletics to the status of general student activities."
This attitude was a major problem for Maryland and its president, Curley Byrd, who had an aggressive strategy to use football success to catapult the university to national prominence. Flaunting the Southern Conference ban on postseason play, Maryland and Clemson chose to play in bowl games on January 1, 1952 (Sugar and Gator, respectively). The conference responded by placing both schools on probation.
That controversy led the football-minded schools to begin considering in earnest plans to break away from the Southern Conference, a large, unwieldy league that still contained much smaller schools such as Washington & Lee. Meanwhile, the so-called Big Four schools (Carolina, State, Duke, Wake) were proceeding on a quite opposite track. At least at the level of institutional leadership, all four were said to favor strong academic standards and reining in the emerging commercialism of college sports. Duke athletic director Eddie Cameron, whose football teams dominated the early ACC gridiron, even forwarded a serious proposal to restrict eligibility for athletic scholarships to students finishing in the top 75 percent of their high school class.
But these schools were equally committed to staying in the game. "Big-time football keeps the persons, the appearance and the general nature of the institution before a large section of the public and gives a wholesome emotional catharsis to the students themselves," said Gray. Duke President Arthur Hollis Edens concurred, stating, "We believe that a sane program of intercollegiate athletics is a constructive influence in the life of a college or university."
Those sentiments help explain why the reform-minded Big Four would choose to join forces with the football-oriented trio of Maryland, South Carolina and Clemson. Gray was willing to relent on the question of a conference-wide ban on bowl participation, but the new ACC did ban freshman eligibility and also established the requirement that players must "be enrolled in an academic program leading to a recognized degree, and should be making normal progress, both qualitatively and quantitatively, toward the degree."

Walker’s book is an apology for Duke and paper’s over the racial and class issues deeply imbedded in their relationships with other schools. In this narrative Duke and Carolina are the leaders of sane college sports policy – a narrative they have bleated for the last 70 years. Notice who is not mentioned in all of this – Virginia Tech or its president Walter Newman. You can always count on Duke and Carolina to toss out a self-serving narrative because protecting their image is paramount.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2020 10:23 AM by Statefan.)
11-22-2020 10:22 AM
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Post: #120
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-22-2020 10:22 AM)Statefan Wrote:  https://indyweek.com/news/orange/unc-s-s...years-ago/

What follows is a Duke’s quasi-offical stance on what happened. It appeared in the Durham NC Independent in 2012 – Read it very carefully and you will see that two schools are not mentioned and it is as if they never existed. That’s purposeful.

As recounted by historian J. Samuel Walker in his fine book ACC Basketball, an academic study of the league's first 20 years, the seven schools that chose to defect from the Southern Conference and form a new league in 1953 were motivated by two distinct sets of concerns.
On the one hand, Clemson, South Carolina and Maryland, all of which were heavily invested in football, were frustrated by the old Southern Conference's ban on participation in bowl games, instituted in 1951. The drive for reform was strengthened by a major scandal that year at conference member William & Mary, where it was revealed that the football program had altered transcripts, changed grades and pressured faculty members to give players favorable grades.
Ironically, UNC and State College (as NCSU was then known) were two of the strongest proponents of the bowl ban: UNC President Gordon Gray (who controlled both schools' votes) described bowl games as "a non-educational distraction for students, both players and otherwise. ... [T]hey command much spectator interest but contribute little to the underlying values of intercollegiate athletics." Wake Forest President Harold Tribble chimed in, saying, "I am in favor of doing everything we can to restore intercollegiate athletics to the status of general student activities."
This attitude was a major problem for Maryland and its president, Curley Byrd, who had an aggressive strategy to use football success to catapult the university to national prominence. Flaunting the Southern Conference ban on postseason play, Maryland and Clemson chose to play in bowl games on January 1, 1952 (Sugar and Gator, respectively). The conference responded by placing both schools on probation.
That controversy led the football-minded schools to begin considering in earnest plans to break away from the Southern Conference, a large, unwieldy league that still contained much smaller schools such as Washington & Lee. Meanwhile, the so-called Big Four schools (Carolina, State, Duke, Wake) were proceeding on a quite opposite track. At least at the level of institutional leadership, all four were said to favor strong academic standards and reining in the emerging commercialism of college sports. Duke athletic director Eddie Cameron, whose football teams dominated the early ACC gridiron, even forwarded a serious proposal to restrict eligibility for athletic scholarships to students finishing in the top 75 percent of their high school class.
But these schools were equally committed to staying in the game. "Big-time football keeps the persons, the appearance and the general nature of the institution before a large section of the public and gives a wholesome emotional catharsis to the students themselves," said Gray. Duke President Arthur Hollis Edens concurred, stating, "We believe that a sane program of intercollegiate athletics is a constructive influence in the life of a college or university."
Those sentiments help explain why the reform-minded Big Four would choose to join forces with the football-oriented trio of Maryland, South Carolina and Clemson. Gray was willing to relent on the question of a conference-wide ban on bowl participation, but the new ACC did ban freshman eligibility and also established the requirement that players must "be enrolled in an academic program leading to a recognized degree, and should be making normal progress, both qualitatively and quantitatively, toward the degree."

Walker’s book is an apology for Duke and paper’s over the racial and class issues deeply imbedded in their relationships with other schools. In this narrative Duke and Carolina are the leaders of sane college sports policy – a narrative they have bleated for the last 70 years. Notice who is not mentioned in all of this – Virginia Tech or its president Walter Newman. You can always count on Duke and Carolina to toss out a self-serving narrative because protecting their image is paramount.

Most of the folks I know still call it State College.
11-22-2020 10:51 AM
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