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Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-11-2020 10:13 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(11-10-2020 05:31 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(11-10-2020 06:15 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-09-2020 02:44 PM)Statefan Wrote:  In and 8 game schedule:

ND -
Pitt/BC/Miami/Louisville every year
FSU/VT every other year
UNC/GT every other year
Syracuse/WF every other year
CU/NC State/Duke/UVa once every four years

CU -
GT/FSU/WF/Louis

UNC/NC State
VT/UVa
Miami/BC

ND/Pitt/Louisville/Syracuse


NC State-
UNC/Duke/Wake/UVa

CU/GT
FSU/Miami
Pitt/VT

ND/BC/Syracuse/Louisville

It's about who you don't want to play every year as well as who you want to play. This allows you to geographically pack your schedule.

This leaves ND room for Navy/USC and two more.
This leaves CU room for SC, another SEC team and two more

Interesting concept.
Your model shows Clemson playing Louisville every year and again every 4 years. One of those two entries needs to be corrected.
But I really like the idea. Do you have it worked out for the entire conference?

I put in Louisville instead of Duke.

Carolina:

Duke/NC State/UVa/Wake

GT/CU
VT/Pitt
FSU/Miami

ND/BC/Syracuse/Louisville

FSU:

Miami/Clemson/Louisville/GT

ND/Pitt
UNC/NCSU
UVa/VT

WF/Duke/BC/Syracuse

BC:

ND/Pitt/Syracuse/Louisville

FSU/UM
UNC/NCSU
Clemson/VT

Duke/WF/UVa/GT

The general gist is that no one wants to travel to BC or Syracuse every other year because of where they are and many don't want to go to Clemson every other year to take an ass whipp'n. However, if you make longer trips a rarer affair, the allure of the trip grows. That should sell more visitor tickets. You see 10 foes at least every other year.

It also allows you to miss a Juggernaut that is outside your region every so often. This can help your program grow. As Clemson is now, who wants to schedule a second game that year against a potential top 10 or 15 school? No one in the ACC other than Clemson.

Georgia Tech and Florida State do it every season.

Anyway, I like your concept even though you have an inconsistency with Carolina and Notre Dame. I imagine it’s difficult to accurately construct this matrix.

Do you have a model for 14 without ND?

I guess Statefan’s 4-3-1 model can work for 14. For example,

VT -
UVA, Miami, NCSU, Wake every year
Pitt/Cuse every other year
UNC/Duke every other year
Louisville/BC every other year
FSU/Clemson/GT once every three years
ND roughly once every three years (OOC)

UNC -
Duke, UVA, Wake, NCSU every year
GT/VT every other year
Miami/FSU every other year
Pitt/Louisville every other year
Clemson, BC, Cuse once every three years
ND roughly once every three years (OOC)
11-11-2020 11:26 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-11-2020 11:26 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  I guess Statefan’s 4-3-1 model can work for 14. For example,

VT -
UVA, Miami, NCSU, Wake every year
Pitt/Cuse every other year
UNC/Duke every other year
Louisville/BC every other year
FSU/Clemson/GT once every three years
ND roughly once every three years (OOC)

I would love this schedule for VT.
NC State is a peer school. Wake is the closest away trip. Alternate the old Big East foes, while doubling the games against FSU and Clemson. The only downside is 1/3 as many games against GT - but as another poster stated, you have to give up something (and I'm sure GT prioritizes other teams ahead of VT).
11-12-2020 09:18 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
As a Cuse fan these are the games we would prioritize if I were the Schedule God:

1st Order: BC and Pitt (Both long time eastern independent foes)
2nd Order: UVA or VT, Louisville, Miami and Notre Dame (next closest teams and/or old BE history, obviously can't play them all every year)
The rest of the teams could go into rotation. Cuse fans enjoy games in NC (lots of Cuse fans in NC). Atlanta (GT) is another game we'd like to see more of. Personally I enjoy the going to FSU over Clemson. Clemson is a bucket list trip but everything is hard about taking in a game at Clemson (Lodging, Parking, tailgating). We don't need a every year rival in a NC based school but I'd like to play all of them on an every other year rotation.

If Cincy joined they would go into the 2nd Order group. If Navy joined the same thing.

The 2nd order are the group of schools where any of them would please most Cuse fans as a core rival to go along with BC and Pitt.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2020 10:56 AM by TexanMark.)
11-12-2020 10:49 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-12-2020 10:49 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  If Cincy joined they would go into the 2nd Order group. If Navy joined the same thing.

How about Penn State, West Virginia, and/or UConn? I ask because those moves aren't happening either.
11-12-2020 05:13 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-12-2020 05:13 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 10:49 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  If Cincy joined they would go into the 2nd Order group. If Navy joined the same thing.

How about Penn State, West Virginia, and/or UConn? I ask because those moves aren't happening either.

PSU and WVU would be the First Order for Cuse fans.

What is a UConn? 03-lmfao I'm hearing rumors that UConn is going to be killing their FB program. If that happens they could always come in for Olympic sports and Navy could be FB only to make 16 teams if ND joins.
11-12-2020 08:04 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-12-2020 05:13 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 10:49 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  If Cincy joined they would go into the 2nd Order group. If Navy joined the same thing.

How about Penn State, West Virginia, and/or UConn? I ask because those moves aren't happening either.

How about a lot less Big East thinking.
11-12-2020 08:42 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-12-2020 08:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 05:13 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 10:49 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  If Cincy joined they would go into the 2nd Order group. If Navy joined the same thing.

How about Penn State, West Virginia, and/or UConn? I ask because those moves aren't happening either.

How about a lot less Big East thinking.

What realistic school you have joining with Notre Dame?
11-12-2020 09:47 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-12-2020 09:47 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 08:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 05:13 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 10:49 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  If Cincy joined they would go into the 2nd Order group. If Navy joined the same thing.

How about Penn State, West Virginia, and/or UConn? I ask because those moves aren't happening either.

How about a lot less Big East thinking.

What realistic school you have joining with Notre Dame?

None.
Under the current circumstances the ACC would be better off to add Notre Dame only, and stop at 15.
11-13-2020 05:13 AM
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green Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-12-2020 09:47 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 08:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 05:13 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 10:49 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  If Cincy joined they would go into the 2nd Order group. If Navy joined the same thing.

How about Penn State, West Virginia, and/or UConn? I ask because those moves aren't happening either.

How about a lot less Big East thinking.

What realistic school you have joining with Notre Dame?

texas ...

LONE STAR
11-13-2020 09:02 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-13-2020 09:02 AM)green Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 09:47 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 08:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 05:13 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 10:49 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  If Cincy joined they would go into the 2nd Order group. If Navy joined the same thing.

How about Penn State, West Virginia, and/or UConn? I ask because those moves aren't happening either.

How about a lot less Big East thinking.

What realistic school you have joining with Notre Dame?

texas ...

LONE STAR

Not sure how that would work. The distance is huge between Austin and most of the teams.
11-13-2020 10:16 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-13-2020 05:13 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 09:47 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 08:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 05:13 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 10:49 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  If Cincy joined they would go into the 2nd Order group. If Navy joined the same thing.

How about Penn State, West Virginia, and/or UConn? I ask because those moves aren't happening either.

How about a lot less Big East thinking.

What realistic school you have joining with Notre Dame?

None.
Under the current circumstances the ACC would be better off to add Notre Dame only, and stop at 15.

I actually see that as a viable option but the league would have to adopt a 9 game league schedule. 4 annual rivals + 5 rotating rivals

Right?
11-13-2020 10:19 AM
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
A dumb question. Is it possible for divisions to have different number of teams and still have a conference championship game?

Let’s say the ACC keeps the same 8 game format but ND joins the coastal division. ND plays seven conference games (all costal teams). The other costal teams play the nine conference games (8 games plus ND) and the atlantic teams play the eight conference games. Next year, ND moves to the atlantic division and plays the seven conference games there. Will the NCAA permit this and let the ACC keep the championship games?
11-13-2020 10:31 AM
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Wahoowa84 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-13-2020 10:31 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  A dumb question. Is it possible for divisions to have different number of teams and still have a conference championship game?

Let’s say the ACC keeps the same 8 game format but ND joins the coastal division. ND plays seven conference games (all costal teams). The other costal teams play the nine conference games (8 games plus ND) and the atlantic teams play the eight conference games. Next year, ND moves to the atlantic division and plays the seven conference games there. Will the NCAA permit this and let the ACC keep the championship games?

I thought that the current NCAA rule for a championship game requires that all schools within a division must compete against each other.

In your scenario: in year 1 ND is playing 7 games...against all the Coastal Division; then in year 2 ND is also playing 7...against all the Atlantic Division. ND could qualify for the championship game if the ACC changed its bylaws determining how division champions are selected. Currently, ACC division champions are determined based on their record amongst the 8 conference games (6 division + 2 cross-division games).

I believe that the ACC could make a rule that in years when there are 8 teams in one division (from your scenario, year 1 in the Coastal and year 2 in the Atlantic), then the record only against the division opponents determines the champion. That should comply with current NCAA restrictions.
11-13-2020 01:50 PM
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-13-2020 01:50 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  
(11-13-2020 10:31 AM)random asian guy Wrote:  A dumb question. Is it possible for divisions to have different number of teams and still have a conference championship game?

Let’s say the ACC keeps the same 8 game format but ND joins the coastal division. ND plays seven conference games (all costal teams). The other costal teams play the nine conference games (8 games plus ND) and the atlantic teams play the eight conference games. Next year, ND moves to the atlantic division and plays the seven conference games there. Will the NCAA permit this and let the ACC keep the championship games?

I thought that the current NCAA rule for a championship game requires that all schools within a division must compete against each other.

In your scenario: in year 1 ND is playing 7 games...against all the Coastal Division; then in year 2 ND is also playing 7...against all the Atlantic Division. ND could qualify for the championship game if the ACC changed its bylaws determining how division champions are selected. Currently, ACC division champions are determined based on their record amongst the 8 conference games (6 division + 2 cross-division games).

I believe that the ACC could make a rule that in years when there are 8 teams in one division (from your scenario, year 1 in the Coastal and year 2 in the Atlantic), then the record only against the division opponents determines the champion. That should comply with current NCAA restrictions.

Thanks. That’s what I thought. So the ACC doesn’t have to look for #16 immediately even if ND joins and even if the divisionless model is not feasible.

The ACC can just stay at 15...until Texas joins COGS
11-13-2020 02:38 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
Nine conference games is a non-starter regardless of who the conference adds. There is absolutely nothing that can make more of UVA, Duke, and UNC more attractive than series with UGA, LSU, and Oklahoma.
11-13-2020 02:39 PM
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green Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-13-2020 10:16 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(11-13-2020 09:02 AM)green Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 09:47 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  What realistic school you have joining with Notre Dame?

texas ...

LONE STAR

Not sure how that would work. The distance is huge between Austin and most of the teams.

like syracuse & coral gables ...
doesn’t seem to bother texas a&m ...
oh, and there’s a newfangled venture called jetliners ...
makes long-distance commutes palatable ...

HOW TIME FLIES
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2020 03:30 PM by green.)
11-13-2020 03:28 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
The current NCAA rule requires a round robin to be played in divisions that are as nearly equal as possible. That means 7 and 8 is okay. Or 6 and 7 is okay. 6 and 9 or 6 and 8 would not be okay.

Any team could be swung into the other division for a period of time.

If you get ND as your permanent 15th for football, only Penn State, Texas, Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan, Auburn, Tennessee, TAMU, LSU, Wisky, Alabama, and maybe Auburn and Oklahoma add any additional umph.

Indiana, Maryland, Purdue, NW, Vandy, Kentucky, Illinois, Ark, Mizzou, MSU, Ole Miss, etc., would just pay for themselves.
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2020 04:03 PM by Statefan.)
11-13-2020 03:51 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-13-2020 03:28 PM)green Wrote:  
(11-13-2020 10:16 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(11-13-2020 09:02 AM)green Wrote:  
(11-12-2020 09:47 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  What realistic school you have joining with Notre Dame?

texas ...

LONE STAR

Not sure how that would work. The distance is huge between Austin and most of the teams.

like syracuse & coral gables ...
doesn’t seem to bother texas a&m ...
oh, and there’s a newfangled venture called jetliners ...
makes long-distance commutes palatable ...

HOW TIME FLIES

You really want to get into arguing with a retired Air Force Aviator about jets and flight times?

TAMU is actually further east of Austin and the SEC Footprint is more compact. TAMU's travel is easy compared to what UT would go through in the ACC.

The other point is the extra travel just eats more into the students time to make classes.

I'm not totally against adding UT...but it makes most sense as a FB only add.
11-13-2020 05:57 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
Notre Dame isn’t joining for football—they’ve said as much—and the ACC isn’t expanding.

07-coffee3

The ACC needs to be focused on eliminating divisions and maximizing their 8-game schedule.
11-13-2020 07:08 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Scheduling the ACC if Notre Dame were to join
(11-13-2020 03:51 PM)Statefan Wrote:  The current NCAA rule requires a round robin to be played in divisions that are as nearly equal as possible. That means 7 and 8 is okay. Or 6 and 7 is okay. 6 and 9 or 6 and 8 would not be okay.

Any team could be swung into the other division for a period of time.

If you get ND as your permanent 15th for football, only Penn State, Texas, Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan, Auburn, Tennessee, TAMU, LSU, Wisky, Alabama, and maybe Auburn and Oklahoma add any additional umph.

Indiana, Maryland, Purdue, NW, Vandy, Kentucky, Illinois, Ark, Mizzou, MSU, Ole Miss, etc., would just pay for themselves.

After Notre Dame joins as a full member IF the ACC ever need a 16th member: based on your list and a map; Tennessee is the ideal choice.
11-13-2020 07:28 PM
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