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THUNDERStruck73 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: OT: Liberty
(11-08-2020 10:52 AM)SumItUp Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 10:35 AM)Cardiff Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 10:07 AM)Cnelson203 Wrote:  as to Liberty's win against VT, congratulations. Impressive win that they should relish with gusto. Just remember that ODU did the same thing a couple of years ago, and it didn't mean much in the long run. It's always going to be a "what have you done for me lately" scenario for all of us.
All in all, I mostly agree with this, but keep in mind:

The year ODU beat VPI, the game was played in Norfolk, the Gobblers went 5-7 against FBS teams that season and the Monarchs went 3-8 against FBS teams.

We’ll have to wait a few weeks to make a full comparison with LU/VPI for this year, but the game was played in Blacksburg, and it seems like LU and VPI are both going to have winning records.

Sometime to also keep in mind about that 2018 season. It was Liberty's first season to transition out of FCS. The Flames defeated Old Dominion 52-10 in the season opener three weeks before ODU hosted Virginia Tech.

Right, because the transitive property is law. Gimme a friggin’ break.
11-08-2020 12:49 PM
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UAB Schnauzer Offline
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Post: #62
RE: OT: Liberty
(11-08-2020 10:37 AM)voss749 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 08:37 AM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 07:33 AM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  
(11-07-2020 07:31 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-07-2020 06:43 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  I bet you don't, may replace you, definitely another team you can't beat

We do not need a school whose education standards are even below Marshall's. They can go pound sand.

Personally I don't get the academics argument. Do I get a Rice degree because I went to a school in a conference with Rice? For that matter does my school get in money or press coverage because Rice has strong admission standards? Would any of our schools want to be in the ivy league for athletics?

This is an athletic conference,. Pick schools based on athletics.

Are we a beer league? We are an association of education institutions, where athletics are just one of many aspects. Our players are not just athletes, they are student athletes. As such, it does matter what company we keep. We should avoid Liberty like plague.

Even if you want to avoid liberty, I would take JMU in a heartbeat...great academics and strong football attendance by FCS standard. They averaged 22,000 a game last year.

I’d rather have VCU
11-08-2020 01:37 PM
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Cardiff Offline
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Post: #63
RE: OT: Liberty
(11-08-2020 01:37 PM)UAB Schnauzer Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 10:37 AM)voss749 Wrote:  Even if you want to avoid liberty, I would take JMU in a heartbeat...great academics and strong football attendance by FCS standard. They averaged 22,000 a game last year.

I’d rather have VCU
VCU doesn’t want to be in a football league... Unless there is just a shitload of money to go along with it. And all we can offer them is (obviously) crumbs.
11-08-2020 01:58 PM
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goliath74 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: OT: Liberty
(11-08-2020 10:37 AM)voss749 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 08:37 AM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 07:33 AM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  
(11-07-2020 07:31 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-07-2020 06:43 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  I bet you don't, may replace you, definitely another team you can't beat

We do not need a school whose education standards are even below Marshall's. They can go pound sand.

Personally I don't get the academics argument. Do I get a Rice degree because I went to a school in a conference with Rice? For that matter does my school get in money or press coverage because Rice has strong admission standards? Would any of our schools want to be in the ivy league for athletics?

This is an athletic conference,. Pick schools based on athletics.

Are we a beer league? We are an association of education institutions, where athletics are just one of many aspects. Our players are not just athletes, they are student athletes. As such, it does matter what company we keep. We should avoid Liberty like plague.

Even if you want to avoid liberty, I would take JMU in a heartbeat...great academics and strong football attendance by FCS standard. They averaged 22,000 a game last year.

I am all for JMU
11-08-2020 02:54 PM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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Post: #65
RE: OT: Liberty
(11-08-2020 02:54 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 10:37 AM)voss749 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 08:37 AM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 07:33 AM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  
(11-07-2020 07:31 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  We do not need a school whose education standards are even below Marshall's. They can go pound sand.

Personally I don't get the academics argument. Do I get a Rice degree because I went to a school in a conference with Rice? For that matter does my school get in money or press coverage because Rice has strong admission standards? Would any of our schools want to be in the ivy league for athletics?

This is an athletic conference,. Pick schools based on athletics.

Are we a beer league? We are an association of education institutions, where athletics are just one of many aspects. Our players are not just athletes, they are student athletes. As such, it does matter what company we keep. We should avoid Liberty like plague.

Even if you want to avoid liberty, I would take JMU in a heartbeat...great academics and strong football attendance by FCS standard. They averaged 22,000 a game last year.

I am all for JMU

Your statements seem at odds. From what I could find Liberty is listed as a national university ranked between 298-389, just like several of C-USA's current members. JMU is considered a regional university. In fact, Liberty has 15 colleges, while JMU only has 7. Am I missing something?

Source for Liberty: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/lib...sity-10392

Source for JMU: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/jam...rsity-3721
11-08-2020 05:14 PM
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goliath74 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: OT: Liberty
(11-08-2020 05:14 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 02:54 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 10:37 AM)voss749 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 08:37 AM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 07:33 AM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  Personally I don't get the academics argument. Do I get a Rice degree because I went to a school in a conference with Rice? For that matter does my school get in money or press coverage because Rice has strong admission standards? Would any of our schools want to be in the ivy league for athletics?

This is an athletic conference,. Pick schools based on athletics.

Are we a beer league? We are an association of education institutions, where athletics are just one of many aspects. Our players are not just athletes, they are student athletes. As such, it does matter what company we keep. We should avoid Liberty like plague.

Even if you want to avoid liberty, I would take JMU in a heartbeat...great academics and strong football attendance by FCS standard. They averaged 22,000 a game last year.

I am all for JMU

Your statements seem at odds. From what I could find Liberty is listed as a national university ranked between 298-389, just like several of C-USA's current members. JMU is considered a regional university. In fact, Liberty has 15 colleges, while JMU only has 7. Am I missing something?

Source for Liberty: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/lib...sity-10392

Source for JMU: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/jam...rsity-3721

Well, let's compare JMU and Liberty.

Forbes Ranking: JMU - 143, Liberty - 585
Times Higher Education / Wall Street Journal: JMU - 279. Liberty - not included
11-08-2020 08:39 PM
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ODUDJ96 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: OT: Liberty
(11-08-2020 08:39 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 05:14 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 02:54 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 10:37 AM)voss749 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 08:37 AM)goliath74 Wrote:  Are we a beer league? We are an association of education institutions, where athletics are just one of many aspects. Our players are not just athletes, they are student athletes. As such, it does matter what company we keep. We should avoid Liberty like plague.

Even if you want to avoid liberty, I would take JMU in a heartbeat...great academics and strong football attendance by FCS standard. They averaged 22,000 a game last year.

I am all for JMU

Your statements seem at odds. From what I could find Liberty is listed as a national university ranked between 298-389, just like several of C-USA's current members. JMU is considered a regional university. In fact, Liberty has 15 colleges, while JMU only has 7. Am I missing something?

Source for Liberty: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/lib...sity-10392

Source for JMU: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/jam...rsity-3721

Well, let's compare JMU and Liberty.

Forbes Ranking: JMU - 143, Liberty - 585
Times Higher Education / Wall Street Journal: JMU - 279. Liberty - not included

JMU is an academic powerhouse. Falwell u is an internet degree milll. But I wouldn’t expect anyone from Texas or Louisiana to have any knowledge of my state.
11-08-2020 08:59 PM
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rileylives Online
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Post: #68
RE: OT: Liberty
Come on guys, if we're being honest, would anybody really be considered as an addition to a new conference, or even as an addition in this conference based off of academics?

I only think this type of conversation matters when the margins are very thin.

I honestly don't think y'all are giving Liberty nearly enough credit on the athletics side.

With that said, I don't think JMU or Liberty makes sense as an addition in this current conference, or even when you start laying out a best of the rest type conference

Possibly an East coast-based Coastal conference, but I don't think Liberty or JMU get in as a current CUSA addition, or as an inclusion to a new East coast-based conference.

Think about it, if JMU or Liberty are included, who are you leaving out? Western Kentucky? Middle Tennessee? App State? Charlotte? There's just not that many seats at the table.
11-08-2020 09:07 PM
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ODUDJ96 Offline
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RE: OT: Liberty
What do you know about falwell u? Let’s start there. It’s an ugly history that runs deep.
11-08-2020 09:17 PM
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herdfan129 Offline
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Post: #70
RE: OT: Liberty
I LOVE Liberty for some of the reasons you see in this post. Soy boy liberals get triggered just by seeing their name. That's good enough for me, and that is why Liberty became my 2nd favorite team two years ago.

This is also the reason they have such a high ceiling. They would be a great addition to a new East Coast conference. The new conference is way past due at this point.
11-08-2020 09:47 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #71
RE: OT: Liberty
(11-08-2020 07:33 AM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  
(11-07-2020 07:31 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-07-2020 06:43 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  
(11-07-2020 06:19 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  I do not want this fraud anywhere near our conference

I bet you don't, may replace you, definitely another team you can't beat

We do not need a school whose education standards are even below Marshall's. They can go pound sand.

Personally I don't get the academics argument. Do I get a Rice degree because I went to a school in a conference with Rice? For that matter does my school get in money or press coverage because Rice has strong admission standards? Would any of our schools want to be in the ivy league for athletics?

This is an athletic conference,. Pick schools based on athletics.

It's the presidents. They want to be associated with like-minded institutions, which usually means academic congruity (though it can also mean similar missions and cultures, like the urban [mostly] Catholic Big East). Is it close-minded when it comes to athletic association? To a degree, yes, but at the end of the day you want everyone to be of one mind, or at least close to one mind, about the company you keep.

Plus fans often use the present and immediate past as the foundation for their realignment/expansion wishes. Would we be having this conversation if Liberty was 4-8 in football and still had no NCAA wins? For that matter, was Liberty ever seriously brought up here as a candidate when they were Big South in all sports?

I like the people I know who went to/work at/cover Liberty, I appreciate that they're willing to spend the money necessary to get good fast, and I have no problem with long-term football and basketball series with them. Share a conference? I don't mind, but then I'm not the target audience for the decision. There's a reason that CUSA and the Sun Belt said no to them even when they were offering to buy their way in.
11-08-2020 10:05 PM
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ODUDJ96 Offline
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Post: #72
RE: OT: Liberty
(11-08-2020 09:47 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  I LOVE Liberty for some of the reasons you see in this post. Soy boy liberals get triggered just by seeing their name. That's good enough for me, and that is why Liberty became my 2nd favorite team two years ago.

This is also the reason they have such a high ceiling. They would be a great addition to a new East Coast conference. The new conference is way past due at this point.

“Soy boy”? Start drinking water hillbilly bob. Putting that aside - your love of falwell u has no impact. Zero/0/nada.
11-08-2020 10:21 PM
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Luckyshot Offline
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Post: #73
RE: OT: Liberty
(11-08-2020 08:37 AM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 07:33 AM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  
(11-07-2020 07:31 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-07-2020 06:43 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  
(11-07-2020 06:19 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  I do not want this fraud anywhere near our conference

I bet you don't, may replace you, definitely another team you can't beat

We do not need a school whose education standards are even below Marshall's. They can go pound sand.

Personally I don't get the academics argument. Do I get a Rice degree because I went to a school in a conference with Rice? For that matter does my school get in money or press coverage because Rice has strong admission standards? Would any of our schools want to be in the ivy league for athletics?

This is an athletic conference,. Pick schools based on athletics.

Are we a beer league? We are an association of education institutions, where athletics are just one of many aspects. Our players are not just athletes, they are student athletes. As such, it does matter what company we keep. We should avoid Liberty like plague.

Is a Duke degree worth less for being associated with the academic cheaters at UNC?
11-09-2020 10:22 AM
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goliath74 Offline
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Post: #74
RE: OT: Liberty
(11-09-2020 10:22 AM)Luckyshot Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 08:37 AM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 07:33 AM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  
(11-07-2020 07:31 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-07-2020 06:43 PM)goherd24herdfans Wrote:  I bet you don't, may replace you, definitely another team you can't beat

We do not need a school whose education standards are even below Marshall's. They can go pound sand.

Personally I don't get the academics argument. Do I get a Rice degree because I went to a school in a conference with Rice? For that matter does my school get in money or press coverage because Rice has strong admission standards? Would any of our schools want to be in the ivy league for athletics?

This is an athletic conference,. Pick schools based on athletics.

Are we a beer league? We are an association of education institutions, where athletics are just one of many aspects. Our players are not just athletes, they are student athletes. As such, it does matter what company we keep. We should avoid Liberty like plague.

Is a Duke degree worth less for being associated with the academic cheaters at UNC?

UNC are a fully accredited, legitimate academic institution. So is JMU. But not Liberty.
11-09-2020 10:46 AM
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Saint3333 Offline
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Post: #75
RE: OT: Liberty
I don't think Liberty should join a G5 conference, it would be a bad marriage for both parties.
11-09-2020 12:02 PM
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Luckyshot Offline
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Post: #76
RE: OT: Liberty
(11-09-2020 10:46 AM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-09-2020 10:22 AM)Luckyshot Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 08:37 AM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 07:33 AM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  
(11-07-2020 07:31 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  We do not need a school whose education standards are even below Marshall's. They can go pound sand.

Personally I don't get the academics argument. Do I get a Rice degree because I went to a school in a conference with Rice? For that matter does my school get in money or press coverage because Rice has strong admission standards? Would any of our schools want to be in the ivy league for athletics?

This is an athletic conference,. Pick schools based on athletics.

Are we a beer league? We are an association of education institutions, where athletics are just one of many aspects. Our players are not just athletes, they are student athletes. As such, it does matter what company we keep. We should avoid Liberty like plague.

Is a Duke degree worth less for being associated with the academic cheaters at UNC?

UNC are a fully accredited, legitimate academic institution. So is JMU. But not Liberty.

UNC admitted to having classes with no requirements nor lectures and got a brief stint with their accreditation on probation and then back to business as usual. UNC degree became a worthless piece of paper to me from that day forward.
11-09-2020 12:11 PM
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Willflop Offline
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Post: #77
RE: OT: Liberty
(11-08-2020 08:39 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 05:14 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 02:54 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 10:37 AM)voss749 Wrote:  
(11-08-2020 08:37 AM)goliath74 Wrote:  Are we a beer league? We are an association of education institutions, where athletics are just one of many aspects. Our players are not just athletes, they are student athletes. As such, it does matter what company we keep. We should avoid Liberty like plague.

Even if you want to avoid liberty, I would take JMU in a heartbeat...great academics and strong football attendance by FCS standard. They averaged 22,000 a game last year.

I am all for JMU

Your statements seem at odds. From what I could find Liberty is listed as a national university ranked between 298-389, just like several of C-USA's current members. JMU is considered a regional university. In fact, Liberty has 15 colleges, while JMU only has 7. Am I missing something?

Source for Liberty: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/lib...sity-10392

Source for JMU: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/jam...rsity-3721

Well, let's compare JMU and Liberty.

Forbes Ranking: JMU - 143, Liberty - 585
Times Higher Education / Wall Street Journal: JMU - 279. Liberty - not included

From the Forbes link:

Quote:That’s the mission of this college ranking, our annual review of the undergraduate institutions that deliver the top academics, best experiences, career success and lowest debt. Whether a school is in the Top 10 or near the bottom of the list, these 650 count as the best in the country. We include just 15% of the 4,300 degree-granting postsecondary institutions in the U.S., so appearing here at all is an indication that a school meets a high standard.

Also, on methodology:

Quote:The rankings are based on six general categories: Alumni Salary (20%), a combination of early and midcareer salaries as reported by the federal College Scorecard and PayScale data and research; Student Satisfaction (20%), which includes results from Niche surveys on professor quality and data, and freshman retention rates from the federal IPEDS website; Debt (20%), which rewards schools for low student debt loads and default rates; American Leaders (15%), which is based on our Forbes database of successful people, including billionaires, powerful women, 30 Under 30 honorees, leaders in public service and in private enterprise, and more; On-Time Graduation Rate (12.5%), which accounts for both four- and six-year rates; and Academic Success (12.5%), which rewards schools whose alumni win prestigious scholarships and fellowships like the Rhodes and the Fulbright or have earned Ph.Ds.

I have no doubt Liberty doesn't compete with many schools from an academic perspective, and the variables they use don’t favor LU in a lot of ways (usually rich and successful people go to already established schools, which in turn continues to feed their ranking). Regardless, based on Forbes, it is true we are a bottom 15 percentile school like everyone wants to criticize us for, but at least it's the 15th percentile of the top 15%.
11-09-2020 12:25 PM
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BlueRaiderBoy Offline
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Post: #78
RE: OT: Liberty
I'll refrain from pointing out all obvious impediments to adding Liberty; lest I get chastised, or outright banned, by the Moderator. But, suffice it to say all current CUSA institutions (except Rice) are Public and basically traditional universities with a view toward inclusion (i.e. non denominational , non-religious, non biased non-political). 03-cloud9 Conversely, Liberty's history is replete with xenophobia, homophobia, religious litmus tests, and overwhelming Prejudice against anybody not sharing their narrow fundamentalist, evangelistic view. 01-wingedeagle Other than that, they got a really good football team this year. 03-lmfao
11-09-2020 12:37 PM
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ODU BLUE Offline
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Post: #79
RE: OT: Liberty
(11-08-2020 09:47 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  I LOVE Liberty for some of the reasons you see in this post. Soy boy liberals get triggered just by seeing their name. That's good enough for me, and that is why Liberty became my 2nd favorite team two years ago.

This is also the reason they have such a high ceiling. They would be a great addition to a new East Coast conference. The new conference is way past due at this point.

herdfan it's called "cancel" culture. You better think exactly like them or you're cancelled.
(This post was last modified: 11-09-2020 12:48 PM by ODU BLUE.)
11-09-2020 12:44 PM
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RE: OT: Liberty
it funny what $$$infusion can create...

/sarc
11-09-2020 12:46 PM
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