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How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
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JCGSU Offline
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Post: #21
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
(11-05-2020 01:08 PM)KJ Eagle Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 11:22 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(11-04-2020 08:55 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Werts plays his heart out vs App. Probably because App would only offer him at DB/WR.

Maybe I’ve not seen him have bad games.

Nobody is saying he is not a tough kid or is bad it just nothing has improved since his sophomore year, especially with passing. He is ok, just time to move on we can't live in the 50% or less completion and miss wide open deep recievers range anymore.

I think that has as much to do with blocking (and our lack thereof) as it has to do with Shai.

He does not throw consistently or accurately enough period even with good blocking, has not changed since his freshman year. The decision making process and not freaking out is the only thing I have seen get significantly better since the AU game. Our receivers have to make crazy good catches sometimes to keep him at 50% this year and last year. We lose nothing really by trying an experienced backup at this point, probably just as fast or faster and if they cant complete higher than 50% go to the next guy but 50% is not worth staying with no matter who it is good blocking or not. Shai has hit his ceiling I think to beat the better teams we need a tad more throwing ability to have a shot at getting competitive for the conference title again. That and better recruiting.
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2020 01:48 PM by JCGSU.)
11-05-2020 01:48 PM
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stingingeagle Offline
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Post: #22
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
Werts' completion rate is no different than Kevin Ellison, Greg Hill or Tracy Ham. Would you like a chance to have those guys again? I know I would. What they had that Werts doesn't is a very efficient offense. I would argue that if our OL was as good as what they had, we would view Werts more favorably.
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2020 02:43 PM by stingingeagle.)
11-05-2020 02:42 PM
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NCeagle Offline
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Post: #23
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
(11-05-2020 02:42 PM)stingingeagle Wrote:  Werts' completion rate is no different than Kevin Ellison, Greg Hill or Tracy Ham. Would you like a chance to have those guys again? I know I would. What they had that Werts doesn't is a very efficient offense. I would argue that if our OL was as good as what they had, we would view Werts more favorably.

They were all much better option QB's.
11-05-2020 03:59 PM
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stingingeagle Offline
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Post: #24
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
He was recruited by Summers right? We have some pretty good qbs waiting in the wings. I was just pointing out that of the issues Werts has, passing isn't really one of them.

(11-05-2020 03:59 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:42 PM)stingingeagle Wrote:  Werts' completion rate is no different than Kevin Ellison, Greg Hill or Tracy Ham. Would you like a chance to have those guys again? I know I would. What they had that Werts doesn't is a very efficient offense. I would argue that if our OL was as good as what they had, we would view Werts more favorably.

They were all much better option QB's.
11-05-2020 04:07 PM
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NCeagle Offline
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Post: #25
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
(11-05-2020 04:07 PM)stingingeagle Wrote:  He was recruited by Summers right? We have some pretty good qbs waiting in the wings. I was just pointing out that of the issues Werts has, passing isn't really one of them.

(11-05-2020 03:59 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:42 PM)stingingeagle Wrote:  Werts' completion rate is no different than Kevin Ellison, Greg Hill or Tracy Ham. Would you like a chance to have those guys again? I know I would. What they had that Werts doesn't is a very efficient offense. I would argue that if our OL was as good as what they had, we would view Werts more favorably.

They were all much better option QB's.

It isn't his major flaw, for sure, but it has gotten worse IMO. He used to be able to lead WR's on the deep ball much better, but now it seems like they are always under thrown and turn into 50/50 jump balls.
11-06-2020 08:12 AM
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EigenEagle Offline
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Post: #26
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
(11-05-2020 03:59 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:42 PM)stingingeagle Wrote:  Werts' completion rate is no different than Kevin Ellison, Greg Hill or Tracy Ham. Would you like a chance to have those guys again? I know I would. What they had that Werts doesn't is a very efficient offense. I would argue that if our OL was as good as what they had, we would view Werts more favorably.

They were all much better option QB's.

No, not really.
11-06-2020 08:40 AM
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NCeagle Offline
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Post: #27
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
(11-06-2020 08:40 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 03:59 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:42 PM)stingingeagle Wrote:  Werts' completion rate is no different than Kevin Ellison, Greg Hill or Tracy Ham. Would you like a chance to have those guys again? I know I would. What they had that Werts doesn't is a very efficient offense. I would argue that if our OL was as good as what they had, we would view Werts more favorably.

They were all much better option QB's.

No, not really.

so you think Shai is just as good as Ham?

interesting
11-06-2020 09:28 AM
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stingingeagle Offline
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Post: #28
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
He didn't exactly say that. Career stats:

Tracy Ham - 52% completion rate / 7,585 passing yds / 4,622 rushing yds
Shai Werts (so far) - 55% completion rate / 3,368 passing yds / 2,787 rushing yds

Tracy had nearly double the number of passing attempts and 242 more carries - 28% more than Shai. By the time the season is over, Shai will be the 4th all time passer in our history, and probably just outside the top 10 in rushing. In fact he just broke Ellison's career passing total last game. Depending on the rest of the season, he stands a chance of passing Greg Hill. I'd also like to add that only Tracy has more passing TDs than Shai. This puts him in the same ballpark as Kevin Ellison, Raymond Gross, Greg Hill, Jayson Foster, JR Revere. In fact he is statistically better than JR Revere was. Most of those guys were part of teams that were much better than our current team. While he's not statistically better than Tracy, he certainly will be among the greatest in our history. Winning shapes how we view our team leaders. If Shai could put up those stats with lesser coaching, I suggest to you that he could be a case study in what might have been.
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2020 11:20 AM by stingingeagle.)
11-06-2020 09:56 AM
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Saint3333 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
My endorsement of that assessment likely doesn't help your case, but Werts is one of the five most talented QBs GS has had.
11-06-2020 10:05 AM
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EigenEagle Offline
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Post: #30
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
(11-06-2020 10:05 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  My endorsement of that assessment likely doesn't help your case, but Werts is one of the five most talented QBs GS has had.

I think some of our fan base is seeing rushing production some QBs in the Sun Belt like Zac Thomas are putting up and just assume we'd be every bit as good in the option game but also better in passing game with a guy like that. They don't realize that App's offense creates running opportunities for the QB instead of the QB run being a mainstay.

They also forget what having Jaybo Shaw at QB was like when we were up against teams that made us try to beat them with the QB run. See the 2011 GS-App game in Boone for an example of that. If you're going to run and rely on option plays as much as we do the QB needs to be an athlete, not just a standard G5 dual-threat guy.

If you want to run an offense like App's or Coastal's I'm fine with that and we can recruit the mold of QB App and Coastal does but if we're running a bona fide option offense the QB needs to be an athlete.
11-06-2020 11:37 AM
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stingingeagle Offline
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Post: #31
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
So are you saying Shai isn't that good of an athlete? Because statistics say otherwise. Auburn saw something in him. I'm glad he transferred.

Jaybo was what we needed at that time. We had no option QBs at that time, coming from an air raid offense. Had Jaybo not been available, Monken's coaching career here would likely have been worse. You do what you can with what you have.
11-06-2020 11:45 AM
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EigenEagle Offline
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Post: #32
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
(11-06-2020 11:45 AM)stingingeagle Wrote:  So are you saying Shai isn't that good of an athlete? Because statistics say otherwise. Auburn saw something in him. I'm glad he transferred.

Jaybo was what we needed at that time. We had no option QBs at that time, coming from an air raid offense. Had Jaybo not been available, Monken's coaching career here would likely have been worse. You do what you can with what you have.

No, I'm explaining one reason why (IMO) Shai is the type of player we should be recruiting more of and not fewer of.
11-06-2020 12:03 PM
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geauxcajuns Offline
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Post: #33
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
(11-05-2020 07:06 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Your backup isn’t a Zac Thomas either.

Missing my point. If Y’all had Levi Lewis as a QB and We had Zan Thomas who wins?
11-06-2020 12:45 PM
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Saint3333 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
(11-06-2020 12:45 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 07:06 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Your backup isn’t a Zac Thomas either.

Missing my point. If Y’all had Levi Lewis as a QB and We had Zan Thomas who wins?

That is irrelevant to the discussion of hoping Lewis doesn't come back.

ULL fans are ready to get rid of Lewis without a Zac Thomas (or better option than Lewis) behind him that I'm aware of.
11-06-2020 12:54 PM
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JCGSU Offline
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Post: #35
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
(11-05-2020 02:42 PM)stingingeagle Wrote:  Werts' completion rate is no different than Kevin Ellison, Greg Hill or Tracy Ham. Would you like a chance to have those guys again? I know I would. What they had that Werts doesn't is a very efficient offense. I would argue that if our OL was as good as what they had, we would view Werts more favorably.

Yes if we go back to the flex and start playing WCU again sign me up until we do we need to hit the passes on 2nd down and third and long in this offense in the FBS. We cant out athlete 8-10 teams on our schedule anymore.
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2020 12:59 PM by JCGSU.)
11-06-2020 12:58 PM
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JCGSU Offline
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Post: #36
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
(11-06-2020 11:45 AM)stingingeagle Wrote:  So are you saying Shai isn't that good of an athlete? Because statistics say otherwise. Auburn saw something in him. I'm glad he transferred.

Jaybo was what we needed at that time. We had no option QBs at that time, coming from an air raid offense. Had Jaybo not been available, Monken's coaching career here would likely have been worse. You do what you can with what you have.

You taking CCU's QB or Shai? I am taking CCU's in either offense you would just run our pass plays more as he throws darts. Shai is good but not worth keeping a better thrower on the bench even if less experienced. If we have one we need to move on. Concerning Ellison he was not Ham and Favian Upshaw had 70%+ completion percentage in 2014 with over a 10 yard average per completion when the offense was still cooking. If we are going to throw as much as we are lets get a thrower like Favian who can still smoke LB's at least in a foot race. Just saying Shai has peaked at decent not great I think we probably can improve going with a guy that can at least sniff 60-65%
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2020 01:15 PM by JCGSU.)
11-06-2020 12:59 PM
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stingingeagle Offline
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Post: #37
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
I get what you're saying. I do agree, I'd want a QB who can run a 4.3 like Upshaw. Upshaw threw more interceptions than TDs though. His 70% completion rate is based on a total of 27 passes he threw that year. It tanked after full time play. We do have 3 QBs with a 3 star rating and they're pretty fast, so I'm excited about what kind of dimension they can add to our offense.
11-06-2020 01:41 PM
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geauxcajuns Offline
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Post: #38
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
(11-06-2020 12:54 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  
(11-06-2020 12:45 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 07:06 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Your backup isn’t a Zac Thomas either.

Missing my point. If Y’all had Levi Lewis as a QB and We had Zan Thomas who wins?

That is irrelevant to the discussion of hoping Lewis doesn't come back.

ULL fans are ready to get rid of Lewis without a Zac Thomas (or better option than Lewis) behind him that I'm aware of.

So that would be no, I would not trade Zac Thomas for Levi Lewis. Got it ??
11-06-2020 04:13 PM
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Saint3333 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
No one would trade Zac for Lewis.

Still not the point.
11-06-2020 08:34 PM
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geauxcajuns Offline
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RE: How Many Seniors Will Come Back For Another Year?
(11-06-2020 08:34 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  No one would trade Zac for Lewis.

Still not the point.

It absolutely is the point. The Cajuns are the most talented team in the SBC, with the exception of QB. Levi Lewis is not a championship level QB, he has championship level talent surrounding him though.
11-07-2020 04:08 PM
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