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FBS Dave Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 03:27 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 03:15 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 03:08 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:58 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:54 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  For basketball I might. They are far ahead of most CAA teams for MBB, and 3 of them were in the CAA when it had strong bball. VCU in particular has managed that sport well.

Exactly. Once you take football out of the equation (with an upgrade to FBS Indy), then A10 is where you'd want to be for basketball.
03-zzz
Looks like you may be on the "monitoring committee" 03-zzz03-zzz03-zzz03-zzz

I think you have some great ideas - why waste them here? - send them to cainml@jmu.edu . Perhaps you can make a difference.

02-13-banana

Have you interviewed them for Duke's Domain? Why don't you set up an interactive Q&A for them here?
11-05-2020 03:39 PM
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Purplehazed Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 02:58 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:54 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  For basketball I might. They are far ahead of most CAA teams for MBB, and 3 of them were in the CAA when it had strong bball. VCU in particular has managed that sport well.

Exactly. Once you take football out of the equation (with an upgrade to FBS Indy), then A10 is where you'd want to be for basketball.

Hell, JMU turned down the A10 or at the least, an opportunity to talk to the A10 long long ago. Not sure about the exact details because alum are not allowed to know what goes on in the JMU athletic dept. and JMU tends to lie about anything conference move et all.
11-05-2020 03:47 PM
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FBS Dave Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 03:47 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:58 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:54 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  For basketball I might. They are far ahead of most CAA teams for MBB, and 3 of them were in the CAA when it had strong bball. VCU in particular has managed that sport well.

Exactly. Once you take football out of the equation (with an upgrade to FBS Indy), then A10 is where you'd want to be for basketball.

Hell, JMU turned down the A10 or at the least, an opportunity to talk to the A10 long long ago. Not sure about the exact details because alum are not allowed to know what goes on in the JMU athletic dept. and JMU tends to lie about anything conference move et all.

I can see not considering the A10 with the paradigm that conference affiliation must factor in football.

With the paradigm change of FBS Indy (as set by the Liberty precedent), the conference affiliation criteria changes dramatically. With football upgraded to FBS then you have the opportunity to re-align with the best available basketball conference. The A10.
11-05-2020 03:54 PM
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FBS Dave Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
When considering UConn as a benchmark, you can see they made an interesting move. They gave up the AAC (and its poor TV contract) to move to the Big East and take football Indy.

There was some boldness to the move as AAC football is the best of the G5.

The JMU move is not the same as the move to FBS Indy is unquestionably an upgrade over the CAA. The A10 isn't the Big East, but A10 basketball is a big improvement over CAA basketball.
11-05-2020 03:59 PM
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Longhorn Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 03:27 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 03:15 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 03:08 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:58 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:54 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  For basketball I might. They are far ahead of most CAA teams for MBB, and 3 of them were in the CAA when it had strong bball. VCU in particular has managed that sport well.

Exactly. Once you take football out of the equation (with an upgrade to FBS Indy), then A10 is where you'd want to be for basketball.
03-zzz
Looks like you may be on the "monitoring committee" 03-zzz03-zzz03-zzz03-zzz

I think you have some great ideas - why waste them here? - send them to cainml@jmu.edu . Perhaps you can make a difference.

02-13-banana

While you’re at it, write a check for $35 million so JMU can balance its budget. 07-coffee3
11-05-2020 04:43 PM
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Purple Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 11:51 AM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 11:31 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 10:56 AM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 07:18 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  
(11-04-2020 09:17 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  Why not just move up? What is holding JMU back?

No conference, not enough money to play as an independent.

You already have costs equal to G5/MAC programs. How much more is it to be FBS independent? What is the actual $$$ number? I understand the extra scholarships for men and women. That it not much in actual costs.

FCS has no revenue. You would have more buy games as FBS and you could get a modest TV contract like UConn did.

Not much in actual costs? 03-lmfao An estimate (now several years old) was an additional $4-5 million was needed to support JMU moving to FBS level FB.

When the university is struggling to address a COVID related $30+ million budget shortfall adding another $4 mil to the burden is not going to happen. Especially when G5 television is rapidly shrinking.

As I said JMU already is spending most of the FBS level costs. You have made significant investments that apply to FBS.

Let's look at the numbers. 22 more scholarships, times 2 for women's Title IX matching.

Let's fully load the costs at $35,000 as a mix of in-state and out-of-state. That's $1.54M.

From an accounting perspective these are really incremental costs. You aren't investing more overhead for classrooms, teachers, etc. for these incremental scholarships. So the real incremental costs are less than the fully loaded costs that are documented.

Where does the other $4M in costs come from? If you increase salaries, that is a choice. A regional travel schedule may cost less than a conference travel schedule, even a FCS conference.

That is a look at costs.

For revenue, a modest TV contract would be better than no FCS TV revenue. A better schedule means more fans. Revenue from more fans comes through multiple streams. As FBS you can get more revenue from buy games. Longer term you are building a product and a brand with more value.

So the increase in costs are modest. The increase in costs may be offset by increase in revenue. On top of that you are building long term value.

Now that Liberty has set the precedent for a direct move to FBS Independence, what is holding JMU back? A move seems obvious.

Yep! A lot of people in key positions simply lack vision. None are so blind as those who will not see.
11-05-2020 04:50 PM
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Purple Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 12:14 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 12:00 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  And I agree that Indy is doable. But the evidence of our anti-FBS admin is evident. All the well-connected donors are parroting the line about scheduling being impossible due to $$. That line has been spoon-fed to them with flimsy evidence pointing to Liberty’s approach (as if that has to be our approach as an Indy).

It would be smart to benchmark and look at others that have made the move. No benchmark will eactly match your situation.

From Liberty take that the precedent has been set for a direct Indy move.

From UConn take that an excellent FBS schedule is possible as is a modest TV contract.

Take from BS, Marshall, CC, Liberty, App State etc that you can move up and compete at a high level.

No FCS program is better positioned to move up. Many that were less positioned have moved up successfully.

What more could you possiblly wait for? An SEC invite? Be realistic and take the steps to grow and improve the brand, the exposure, the national recognition, the engagement, and even the bottom line. You're not just a small women's teachers' college anymore.

You're singing to the choir, brother. Many of us here have been saying the very same thing you are saying. You will also now be called crazy. Welcome to the club.
11-05-2020 04:55 PM
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Purple Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 01:32 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 12:18 PM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  There is NO need for more women's programs...See Carr report from 5 years ago which confirmed that we are OK with Title IX if we go to FBS

Then that cuts those costs in about half. Say $750,000 in fully loaded costs but only $350,000 in actual incremental costs.

I can understand JMU waiting and studying and monitoring and waiting and studying and monitoring if the old regulations were in place that you hade to be invited up by a FBS conference. There are negatives to the G5 conferences, including footprint, travel, and the schedule.

With the Indy path now available it's a no brainer.

Careful. You are going to be accused of being me.
11-05-2020 04:59 PM
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FBS Dave Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 04:55 PM)Purple Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 12:14 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 12:00 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  And I agree that Indy is doable. But the evidence of our anti-FBS admin is evident. All the well-connected donors are parroting the line about scheduling being impossible due to $$. That line has been spoon-fed to them with flimsy evidence pointing to Liberty’s approach (as if that has to be our approach as an Indy).

It would be smart to benchmark and look at others that have made the move. No benchmark will eactly match your situation.

From Liberty take that the precedent has been set for a direct Indy move.

From UConn take that an excellent FBS schedule is possible as is a modest TV contract.

Take from BS, Marshall, CC, Liberty, App State etc that you can move up and compete at a high level.

No FCS program is better positioned to move up. Many that were less positioned have moved up successfully.

What more could you possiblly wait for? An SEC invite? Be realistic and take the steps to grow and improve the brand, the exposure, the national recognition, the engagement, and even the bottom line. You're not just a small women's teachers' college anymore.

You're singing to the choir, brother. Many of us here have been saying the very same thing you are saying. You will also now be called crazy. Welcome to the club.

Even your "moderators" are giving me shite, lol. It's hard to imagine why there would be detractors to moving up, especially now that you can see the success of CC and Liberty.
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2020 05:02 PM by FBS Dave.)
11-05-2020 04:59 PM
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Purple Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 01:42 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  JMU is stuck on being in one conference for all sports. Currently, that is used as a reason to not move to FBS. But I also think our admin knows the CAA isn’t a good home for our non-FB sports. So they don’t move to FBS Indy because they actually WANT to join an improved conference that includes FBS football. Being unnecessarily selective is getting in the way of progress. And yes, we do need to up our donor game. But I think that’s an easy fix in FBS.

I agree. I believe alumni cash will pour in with even the announcement of the intention to move to FBS (indy, preferably) within a short period. I will certainly contribute more.
11-05-2020 05:02 PM
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Purplehazed Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
The moderator agrees with you (me thinks) but it's like this, he can make fun of his school but you cannot.

Many of us are fans of JMU and the Washington football team, think about that, no ambition and no name.
11-05-2020 05:07 PM
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Purple Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 04:43 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 03:27 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 03:15 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 03:08 PM)Dukester Wrote:  
(11-05-2020 02:58 PM)FBS Dave Wrote:  Exactly. Once you take football out of the equation (with an upgrade to FBS Indy), then A10 is where you'd want to be for basketball.
03-zzz
Looks like you may be on the "monitoring committee" 03-zzz03-zzz03-zzz03-zzz

I think you have some great ideas - why waste them here? - send them to cainml@jmu.edu . Perhaps you can make a difference.

02-13-banana

While you’re at it, write a check for $35 million so JMU can balance its budget. 07-coffee3

Yeah, that makes sense.

Let me explain to you what Dave is saying. I will try to type slowly so you can follow along.

FCS football in the mighty CAA and FBS indy are practically a wash, financially. However, there are many, many benefits to being FBS.

Now, write that ten times on the blackboard, or as many times as it takes until you get it - 200, 300, whatever.

You're welcome.
11-05-2020 05:30 PM
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FBS Dave Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 05:07 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  The moderator agrees with you (me thinks) but it's like this, he can make fun of his school but you cannot.

Many of us are fans of JMU and the Washington football team, think about that, no ambition and no name.

The thing is I’m not making fun of JMU! I’m not trolling JMU!

I think your leadership must be caught in an old paradigm of a move to FBS needs to be through a conference affiliation.

That requirement is now shattered! An independent schedule may be the BEST position outside of the P5. There is really no money outside of the P5 anyway.

UConn left the AAC for Independence!

FBS Indy >>>>>>> FCS CAA

Once you make that move you could stand pat in the CAA, or you could move to the more competitive A10. From the outside it looks like you have some commitment to build the hoops program..
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2020 10:38 PM by FBS Dave.)
11-05-2020 10:37 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
I think it’s a bold assumption that the A10 would have us.
11-05-2020 11:09 PM
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FBS Dave Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 11:09 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  I think it’s a bold assumption that the A10 would have us.

Maybe. The A10 would not have to be linked to the FBS move.

You make the FBS move on its own merits and then consider the A10 as the opportunity becomes available.
11-05-2020 11:14 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
For sure. Unfortunately the person in charge of this decision likes our current athletic financial “stability” above all ambition.
11-06-2020 12:17 AM
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FBS Dave Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
Has there ever been a statement from JMU leadership about the FBS Indy possibility. Something like:

“We continue to closely monitor the landscape for the future of JMU football. We have considered which G5 conferences may be a fit, and have not yet found a match for our interests, but we also understand the opportunity to ascend to FBS as an independent. Liberty set this precedent so that ascending to FBS as an independent is just one more viable path to consider”.

I ask because I’m not really familiar with the close details of JMU’s decisions and it’s hard for me to find much through google. I’d guess that alumni has discussions with the leadership that don’t make it to press articles.

It appears that JMU has done a lot to prepare for the move up and I remember there was discussion of it years ago, and even some discussion from the prior CAA comish of having a portion of the conference move up together (before the Liberty precedent).

So it’s curious to me, post Liberty, why JMU appears to be stalled and silent?

Is there anymore insight than “if you scour this message board you may find the answers”.
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2020 08:01 AM by FBS Dave.)
11-06-2020 08:00 AM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
No, no admin talk of Indy outside of spoonfeeding half-truths to eager recipients to parrot on here. I suspect if the question was asked directly, they might be so bold as to say NCAA regulations prevent it, ignoring the Liberty precedent completely. (Not to be confused with ignoring the former Liberty president, as Mrs. Falwell likes to do)
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2020 08:15 AM by HyperDuke.)
11-06-2020 08:13 AM
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FBS Dave Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-06-2020 08:13 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  No, no admin talk of Indy outside of spoonfeeding half-truths to eager recipients to parrot on here. I suspect if the question was asked directly, they might be so bold as to say NCAA regulations prevent it, ignoring the Liberty precedent completely. (Not to be confused with ignoring the former Liberty president, as Mrs. Falwell likes to do)

I guess that’s the problem then. Their job is to recognize the opportunities for the University. If somehow the Liberty precedent has slipped by them they are asleep at the switch.

When the leadership is off the road it’s up to the alumni to bring them back to center, to question them at functions when there is access, and to hold them accountable.

What is the clout of Dukes Domain? Are there Alumni big hitters here or is this collection of voices off the radar?
11-06-2020 08:30 AM
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Dukester Online
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Post: #80
RE: Boise State, Marshall, Coastal Carolina, Liberty
(11-05-2020 05:07 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  The moderator agrees with you (me thinks) but it's like this, he can make fun of his school but you cannot.

Many of us are fans of JMU and the Washington football team, think about that, no ambition and no name.

Obviously the case. 04-cheers
11-06-2020 08:54 AM
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